Translate

Case Studies

I have interviewed many people in loving, consensual relationships who do not have the freedom to marry, or even the freedom to just be together without the threat of prosecution by their own government, and bullying and discrimination by others. Most of the interviews I have done have been with people who are or were in love, in closed relationships, and want/wanted to marry their lover(s) and are prevented by discrimination that still remains in marriage law. Some people just want to be able to have their sex lives without being prosecuted.

While many people will find the sex and love lives described in these interviews shocking or something they would find personally disgusting, the reader should realize that not everybody wants the same life, and the disgust of one person, or even many people, should not prevent consenting adults from having the sex and love lives to which they mutually agree.

The opinions expressed by the interviewee are those of the interviewee, not necessarily those of this blog.

If you want to be interviewed, see here.


Consanguinamory:

Siblings

From Russia With Love
(Sister Raising Four Children with Her Genetic Full Brother)

Third Time is the Charm
(Genetic Half Brother and Sister)

The Family Values of Lifelong Love (Brother and Sister, their daughter also gives her perspective)
A Same-Sex Marriage Still Denied
(Male Identical Twins)

In Double-Love But Denied the Right to Marry (Brother and Sister)

A Woman Denied the Right to Marry the Person She Loves (Genetic Half Sister and Brother)

A Slowly Simmered Love (Genetic Half Brother and Sister)

They Would Marry Today If They Could (Genetic Half Brother and Sister)

Building a Family, But Denied the Right to Marry (Genetic Half Brother and Sister)

A burning love denied marriage equality (Genetic Half Brother and Sister)

A Treasured Love Denied Marriage (Genetic Half Brother and Sister - her subsequent interview is here.)

Genetic Sexual Attraction Sparks an Intense Love (Genetic Half Brother and Sister)

A sister married to her brother in every way but under the law

A brother whose lifelong lover is his twin sister

A man whose husband is his brother

A polyamorous bisexual woman who'd marry her twin brother

A sister who would marry her brother

A brother whose brother is his husband in every way except by law

Another sister married to her brother in every way but under the law.


A Young Woman Denied Her Rights (Genetic Half Brother and Sister)

Another Loving Couple Denied Their Freedom to Marry (Brother and Sister)

Two Women Still Denied Their Right to Marry (Sisters)

Australian Couple Denied Their Freedom to Marry (Genetic Brother and Sister)

They Served the US, But Have to Hide Their Love (Genetic Father and Daughter)

A Young Adult Love in Hiding (Brother and Sister)

A Brother Tells of His Marriage to His Sister

Very Happy Together But Denied the Freedom to Marry (Half Brother and Sister)

A Lifelong Love Denied Marriage Equality (Brother and Sister)

Another Marriage Denied Equality Under the Law (Brother and Sister)

A Beautiful Woman Denied the Right to Marry the Father of Her Children (Brother and Sister)

Kevin and Donna (Brother and Sister)


Adults With Their Parents

It Runs in the Family (A Woman who is with her Son after previously being with Father)

Expectant Parents Denied Their Rights (Father and Daughter)

Another Woman Denied Her Rights (Father and Daughter)

Another Couple Who'd Marry If they Could (Mother and Son)

It Was Good While It Lasted (Mother and Son)

It's Natural (Mother and Son)

A daughter whose father wants to marry her, and she wants to marry him

A longtime marriage denied equal treatment under the law (Mother and Son)

Expectant Parents Denied Their Right to Marry (Mother and Son)

A son who wants to marry his mother

A Double Love With Rights Denied (Mother and Son)

Seven Years Along and Still Denied the Freedom to Marry (Father and Daughter)

A father who wants to marry his daughter

A reunited father and daughter who want to marry.

A daughter who would marry her father

Reunited Father and Daughter Want a Legal Marriage

Another Marriage Denied Equality (Father and Daughter)

An Established Love Grows With Passion (Father and Daughter)

Family-With-Benefits: Mother and Son

A Private Passion (Mother and Son) 

A Brief Interview with Maggie (Mother and Son)

A Woman Denied Her Freedom to Marry (Genetic Mother and Son)

Finally Found Love But They are Denied Their Right to Marry (Genetic Father and Daughter)

A father and daughter in an open relationship who are having a child together

Married in Every Way Except Under the Law (Mother and Son)


Aunts and Nephews


An aunt and nephew denied the freedom to marry


Cousins


A Beautiful Love Enduring Prejudice (First Cousins)

Here's an interview with a woman legally married to her first cousin, once removed. Her marraige has been rejected by her father.


Interviews By Others

The Final Manifesto published an interview with a woman who wants to marry the father of his child, who is her brother.

Jane has an interview with a woman who is with her brother.



Adopted Siblings:

A woman who is married to her adopted brother in every way except under the law.



Polyamory:

A woman with a husband and sisterwife raising children

A polyamorous woman denied her right to marry

A mother denied her rights

An extensive interview with a polyamorous man


Polyamorous Consanguinamory:

A Bisexual Woman Denied Her Rights (A Triad with Mail Twins)

Two Women Still Denied Their Right to Marry (Genetic Half-Sisters)

A mother, her son, and her daughter who want to marry

A young man in a polycule with his mother and sisters

A Pansexual Woman Denied Her Rights

A Unicorn Makes Three (A Woman with Her Sister and Son)

Experienced Mother Offers Help to Others (A Woman With Her Son, Daughter, and Niece)

A Growing Family Denied Their Rights (A Woman With a Brother and Sister Raising Their Children)


Family and Friends Tell Their Side of Things:

A Thriving Young Woman Despite Discrimination Against Her Mother (This woman suffered during childhood as a result of persecution against her mother's GSA relationship.)

A Mother and Brother Support Gay Polyamorous Consanguinamorous Twins

A Close Cousin Observes Consanguinamory (between Father and Daughter)


The Libertines:

Chrissy - A Bisexual, Polyamorous Woman in an Open Marriage


Tiffany -A Bisexual, Polyamorous, Consanguinamorous Woman


If you’d like to be interviewed, I'd like to interview you. Contact me at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com.

If you are looking for help, see this page.
— — —

34 comments:

  1. I'm 17 and my boyfriend is 27. His family(mother, father, siblings, cousins, etc.) are into incest and so am I. My family doesn't know and frankly, I'm not attracted to most of them anyway. We plan on having four children and sharing our love with them in every way possible. I don't know if I will be able to handle not being able to talk to any of my family about it or having them find out and disown me.. the only reason people think incest is wrong is because it's what society has drilled into their heads. I don't know what to do about this. I know it will hurt, having to hide something so beautiful from the people I love so much. ):

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous, thanks for commenting. First a couple of issues: If you're living in a jurisdiction where the age of consent is 18, your boyfriend is breaking the law if he has sex with you. If his family is in a jurisdiction where consanguinamory is illegal, they are breaking (stupid) laws if they are having sex with each other.

      That being said...

      I am not against age gaps between adults, and I am a male who was with some much older women starting when I was a teenager (legal age), so I speak from experience when I urge you not to rush into marriage or having children at your age. If your boyfriend is someone you should marry, he will still be that in five or ten years.

      Also, I am strongly against abusing children. Children should be raised to be independent adults who can leave the home and form their own homes, and start their own families (if they want that). They should NOT be groomed to be the parent's sexual partner. IF someone, as a healthy, independent adult, CHOOSES to return to their parent as a lover, then I do not think the law should prevent that. But I support laws that prevent the abuse of minor children. If your boyfriend's family is enjoying their closeness as ADULTS, then I think that is fine.

      Delete
    2. Grooming is child abuse. Period. A parent's first priority should always be being the best parent possible for their child, and ensuring their child develops properly into a competent, functional, social adult. Raising one's children merely for one's own sexual/emotional gratification is selfish, and a clear violation of a parent's primary duty to their children. Some issues are complex. This one isn't.

      Delete
    3. If I wasn't clear enough: grooming should be against the law. It should be punishable by jail time. I consider it a form of emotional rape. There's nothing "loving" about it. It's manipulative and exploitative. This actually shows why our current laws are so stupid: consensual adult acts are criminalized, but grooming - when the child is not sexually "reaped" until adulthood - is not, itself, criminalized. If I had my way, I would reverse the legality of those two.

      Delete
  2. How do you feel about a consanguineous couple revealing to their children about the true nature and maybe the history of their relationship? I've always wondered how couple of consanguineous nature talk to a child(of any age) about a situation such as theirs due to the danger of the law in man places.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's a good question, Anonymous. It's up to the parents to raise their children how they think best. What children care more about is having loving parents, a place to call home, and some stability. Children would only think negatively about the consanguinity of their parents if they were taught to think that way.

      To the kids, their parents are first and foremost "Mom" or "Dad."

      I see no compelling reason for the parents to tell the children while they are young about their own consanguinity, but there is an obvious potential drawback to telling them: the information falling into the wrong hands.

      Someday, it won't be an issue. The parents will freely be able to tell their children the family history and bigots, should they get the information, won't have any power to tear the family apart.

      Delete
    2. It's not all roses. The earlier they tell their kid, the more likely their kid will let it slip accidentally. The later they tell their kid, the more likely their kid is to have internalized society's stigma and reject their parents. I know that the second has definitely happened to people. Because of this, there are cases (Keith posted one about an uncle and niece) where they never tell the kids, who may or may not find out when one or both parents die. It's a really tough call.

      Delete
    3. actually i know what that is like, my mother is in a cosagnuineamorous relationship with her brother. She told me about the truth of there relationship when i was in highschool. It did not change my relationship with either of them. In case it matter to people, no i am not biologically related to my dad, long story. but i think children should know about this.

      Delete
  3. I´m not against consensual incest, please don´t consider this to be offending or flaming. Let´s say that for me the basic argument of: two people should be able to marry and love each other is perfectly valid to me. I agree, and I support it. I´m just... a bit concerned by the first comment on this page, and of the implications of certain statements. Psychology is an interesting thing, one that many times is completely disregarded when love is involved. I´m not sure that growing up with the idea that having sexual relationship with your siblings is entirely healthy. Teaching your kids that love is free is absolutely acceptable, but abuse, even if subtle, even if widely accepted in the community/family you come from, shapes the mind of children, shapes the way they´ll interact with the world, how they´ll think - in a way.

    Incest was widely accepted in noble families centuries ago to preserve the "blue blood". We disregarded that practice because genetic problems may happen.

    Also, I´m sorry - but no healthy parent would have sex with their own child. And no healthy child would want that from their parents. In cases where the incest happen between brothers or cousins I have less to disapprove, or in a way I find it less "weird" - for lack of a better word.

    Please, don´t take offense of what I´ve wrote. I´m expressing an opinion and a concern, after reading that comment.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It is a sweeping statement to say that no healthy parent would want to have sex with their adult child, and vice-versa. Experience seems to prove otherwise.

      Delete
    2. Child abuse is always a concern with any adult/child relationship. It's an unfortunate - and horrible - fact of life. There are plenty of cases where, without grooming, a parent and adult child have entered into a sexual relationship. The trick is to openly look at the healthy relationships, compare them to the unhealthy relationships, figure out what the difference is, what was done right and wrong, and then pass laws that criminalize only the abusive relationships, and not the healthy ones. I'm not denying that it gets complicated when it comes to parents and children, but it's not opaque.

      Delete
  4. Hi. This is a bit awkward for me. I happened to stumble upon this page, and I feel a lot more at ease about my issue but at the same time I'm still extremely nervous to speak about my issue.

    I'm 31, married, and have a baby on the way. My wife doesn't know about this problem.... and I'm pretty sure she would leave me if she found out.

    I'm estranged from my half sisters. One of which I've had rather close contact but only online for the past 2-3 years. The last time I saw her in person, I was 6, and she was nearing 2.

    I think I'm falling in love with her. I know I'm in deep lust with her, but if any of you saw the gene pool she got, it'd probably be understandable. lol. She's the most beautiful woman I've ever seen, and I honestly can't believe we're related. I never have had the nuts to say anything, but I feel held back.

    I don't want to cheat on my wife......... I'd rather get the thoughts out of my head, but it's bordering obsession. I think about her so often, and I don't even realize it until it's too late. The issue is, I either need to find a way to get over it and move on without breaking contact and loosing her again, or figure it out. I'm deeply in love with my wife, and we're VERY happy together. We've been married for 5 years, and this issue has only started since early last year. It really began after my grandmother passed away.

    Any advice here (I realize it's not a love column however) would be greatly appreciated. Do I explore, and risk everything (which seems like the worst possible option), do I tell my sister, and risk being the freak and being without her again, and perhaps get her help? Do I tell my wife, and risk the consequences? Or do I find another way, that involves straightening me out in a way I don't have these issues?

    I can't afford therapy, and not telling someone is hurting inside deeply. I feel like I'm lying to both my sister and my wife, and that's not a pleasant feeling. Mainly because I am so concerned with what will happen, or if either would ever understand....... I feel like there has to be something wrong with me for even wanting it....... but at the same time, I've had dreams of moving in with my sister, and having a real relationship, including having happy, healthy, wonderful children together....... and it makes it all the harder to know how to feel.

    Thanks.........

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The good news is that you're definitely not alone.

      The bad news is, there's going to be pain and difficulty ahead either way.

      Let's be practical. You've been building a life with your wife, and you're happy with her, correct? You're going to be a father with her, too, right?

      Cheating is not the way to go. Not only would you very likely lose your marriage, but you'd lose at least some access to your child. Also, if you live in one of the many places that still criminalizes sex between close genetic relatives, your wife could have you criminally prosecuted.

      You need to operate according to those realities. It isn't going to be easy,

      Please feel free to contact me directly for more extensive discussion at fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com

      You should see if you can join this Yahoo Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Reunion_gsa/info

      It hasn't been active for months, but I (and others) will get emails from you if you join and explain your situation, and you can get some help there.

      Delete
  5. Hi I was just wondering if you know any groups that are pro GSA. All the ones that you listed don't seem to be active.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The best place right now is Kindred Spirits, which does have a GSA section. Be sure to read and immediately follow the rules so you can gain free access to the GSA section: http://kindred.forumup.com

      Delete
    2. Update: (I know this post is 2 year old now) Kindredspirits is still "up" on the web, but seems to have been completely overtaken by spam advertising. Click on any of the forum posts, even the "read these rules before joining etc" post, and as soon as that page loads there is an immediate redirect to spam, those "WARNING, YOUR MOBILE DEVICE HAS BEEN INFECTED!!! CLICK HERE TO FIX THE PROBLEM!!!" type sites, among others.

      BTW, thanks for the time and info you put into this website, Keith.

      Delete
    3. I apologize. We created a new version of the forum at a better place: http://ks2016.forumactif.fr

      Yes, it's based in France, but the forum is in English.

      Delete
  6. Hi, I was wondering that a self-uniting marriage will work for marriage equality.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. May I have your permission to explain?

      Delete
    2. Going to post the facts on a different day. :)

      Delete
  7. Question.

    this might be weird.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Incest ha always been a debatable topic, i might differ from the opinion of others, but i can say that i have known a guy who was sexually involved with his mother. i dont know how to respond to that, but he seemed happy.
    well anyways thanx keith for such an interesting article

    ReplyDelete
  9. There is no 'natural' aversion to sex with siblings or one's adult children. Nobody has turned into a frog because of sibling sex. The taboo all societal. As for age of consent, if the children are masturbating, the sex switch has been flipped on. You can't turn it off. The real damage is society's brainwashing against it. I would have concern for whether a girl is physically developed enough, as in her ability to accommodate an adult sized penis. But if it fits without pain, and the act puts a smile on everyone's face, it's none of society's business.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Minors do not have the same rights as adults, and are still maturing emotionally and intellectually, even if they are physically able to accommodate an adult, and if you're talking about a minor who is dealing with their legal guardian, that's an added concern. The focus of this blog is consenting adults.

      And I don't know if the Westermarck Effect has a biological basis or not. I can see how there could have been development of such an effect through biological means, but I also suppose it is possible it is entirely socialized. Whichever, it is evident that not everyone raised together experiences it to the point of eliminating all attraction to close family/cohabitants.

      Delete
    2. Child sexual abuse has been known to be extremely traumatic. It often leads to permanent, life-long psychological or even physical damage. And while I understand why somebody may question whether all sexual contact between adults and prepubescents is invariably harmful, it would be deplorable to entertain the thought that a grown-up's selfish whim for sexual gratification could ever overrule a child's right to safety. As long as there's the SLIGHTEST chance that all such sexual contact is indeed harmful -- and there always IS one -- I will never support any easing of measures to prevent it.

      Delete
    3. Yeah the whole. Westermark effect is debated and it might not be real. But some research shows that it is. Personally I think it is real and some people just don't experience it.

      Delete
    4. Consent laws exist for a reason, and I doubt "ability to accommodate an adult sized penis" is the reason.... That is the stupidest argument I have ever heard in defense of child abuse. The size of an adult penis ranges from 3-4 inches to well over a foot. Surely there are adult women who can't "accommodate" penises on the lower end of a scale; and conversely, there are probably children who can "accommodate" penises on the upper end of the scale. That does NOT mean that those children are ready/ want to have sex with anyone, or that these hypothetical adult women aren’t ready for sex. Basically, your argument makes no sense for two reasons: 1, the range of penis size (and the range of depth and width of vagina too) is so large that it is pointless to talk about in this context, and 2, the size of a person's body parts or the body parts of others does not dictate their readiness for sex.


      And as far as masturbation goes, I started masturbating when I was about 5, and I know many other people who say they started earlier than that. Does that mean that a 3 or 4 or 5 year old is ready for sex? FUCKING NO! I don’t even remember it being a sexual thing, I was just exploring my equipment. And I suspect that that is the case for many children who “masturbate”, at ages even older, like 13-15 or so. Also, there are probably adults who don’t masturbate who are ready to have sex or are having sex. So, again, this is not an effective way to measure sexual readiness.


      I started having sex when I was 14 with people who were legally adults and some who were much older than me. Other than the fact that I was legally unable to consent, it was emotionally and physically healthy and pleasurable and I personally suffered no adverse effects. I don’t know if my sexual activity caused some sort of subconscious harm, but it doesn’t seem to affect me. I am happy and I have no problems with sex now. My point in saying this is that I don’t know what consent laws should be based on. It’s a confusing thing to make a law about, because the law as it stands could potentially be keeping people who want to have sex from having sex, and on the other hand it is not protecting those who are legally able to consent, but aren’t ready for sex. I don’t think that age of consent laws should be based on age alone… But right now that is the best measure we have of sexual readiness. As Mark said, as long as there is a chance that sexual contact with a minor is harmful, I will never support more lenient laws.


      Until we understand more about human sexuality and have better ways to quantify sexual readiness, the consent laws should remain as they are, or at least not make it easier for children to be abused.


      It’s hard for me to say that people who are attracted to children are messed up or otherwise defective… People say that about gay and consanguineous couples, but just because I don’t share that attraction doesn’t mean that it constitutes mental instability… But we DO know as a society that when children are coerced into sex, or when they are groomed, or when they “consent” to sex before they really realize what that means, that it has devastating effects on them for the REST OF THEIR LIVES. And for that reason, I condemn what you are saying with every cell in my body. Please do not have sex with children, there are plenty of young-looking women who won’t be irreversibly harmed by having sex with you.

      Delete
  10. Health and beauty
    Incest ha always been a debatable topic, i might differ from the opinion of others, but i can say that i have known a guy who was sexually involved with his mother. i dont know how to respond to that, but he seemed happy.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Scientific evidence has shown that people's brains aren't fully developed until they're in their early 20s, that info should be used in determining or modifying age of consent laws.

    I've also heard of "Romoe & Juliet" laws that allow teens to have sex if there is an age difference of 2 years or less (some laws it is 3 years, although I don't approve of this b/c it would allow a 13 year olds & 16 year olds to legally have sex with each other).

    The Romeo & Juliet laws could be further modified in this way: adolescence is from 13-19 years of age, 6 years total. Have adolescences who are young teens, closest to childhood, be legally allowed to have sex only if the age difference is 1 year or 1 year & a half. The criteria for young teens could be 13-14 or 13-15 depending on what the county/state/province/region determines for themselves. For middle adolescence, teens who're ages 15-16 or 15-17 years, have the age gape widen to 2 years. For those in their late teens, closest to adulthood, 17-19, have the age gap widen to 3 years.

    I don't like young teens having sex, but I also remember my adolescence & those of my friends/classmates/peers, young teens having sex does happen regardless or mine or any one else's dislike/distaste/disgust of it.

    I've also heard of some legal punishments being doled out to teens who have sex as being listed as registered sex offenders. This is way to extreme.

    ReplyDelete
  12. As for adult children & adult parents/guardians (aunts, uncles, older cousins, godparents, close/trusted friends of bio parents etc.) having a consensual sexual/romantic relationship, I think that the potential for abuse is increased b/c of their power imbalance combined with the nature of their relationship while the adult child was an actual child. Parents/guardians raise the child & so are more likely to have a strong(er) psychological hold/effect on the child even into adulthood (this psychological hold/effect can be heathy or unhealthy).

    This dynamic between adult children & adult parents/guardians isn't automatically found in other consensual sexual/romantic relationship between adults, even if they do have a power imbalance & still have a moderate or moderately high level of abuse becoming reality.

    Sexual/romantic relationships between adult siblings run the same risks as one between an adult child & adult parent/guardian. From what I've read about child sexual abuse within families, CSA is more common between siblings than between children & parents/guardians.

    ReplyDelete
  13. I don't know what can be done to eliminate this, especially since some parents/guardians & teachers can't or won't see the difference between normal sibling rivalry & abuse. Not to mention that it's only recently, & only in some places, that non sibling/non related children bullying each other in schools is beginning to be taken seriously.

    ReplyDelete
  14. I am currently involved in a polyamorous relationship with two men, who are twin brothers, and I have to say I'm glad I found this. Sometimes I feel like the only one.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous, congrats on your love! No, you're not the only one. Please write me at Fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com

      Delete
    2. Thank you for your support! I'm really glad to be able to see others in relationships like this, and I'll be in touch!

      Delete

To prevent spam, comments will have to be approved, so your comment may not appear for several hours. Feedback is welcome, including disagreement. I only delete/reject/mark as spam: spam, vulgar or hateful attacks, repeated spouting of bigotry from the same person that does not add to the discussion, and the like. I will not reject comments based on disagreement, but if you don't think consenting adults should be free to love each other, then I do not consent to have you repeatedly spout hate on my blog without adding anything to the discourse.

If you want to write to me privately, then either contact me on Facebook, email me at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com, or tell me in your comment that you do NOT want it published. Otherwise, anything you write here is fair game to be used in a subsequent entry. If you want to be anonymous, that is fine.

IT IS OK TO TALK ABOUT SEX IN YOUR COMMENTS, BUT PLEASE CHOOSE YOUR WORDS CAREFULLY AS I WANT THIS BLOG TO BE AS "SAFE FOR WORK" AS POSSIBLE. If your comment includes graphic descriptions of activity involving minors, it's not going to get published.