Tuesday, September 27, 2016

Mothers Gone Wrong?

There have been several "incest" stories in the news lately featuring mothers with their adult children, and the circumstances of some of them have raised awareness of Genetic Sexual Attraction. The stories have gone viral, and the way news cycles work means that similar cases will be more likely to make news. That being said, GSA will be happening more. Also, like with any other human interaction, sometimes abusers are in the mix. Abuse shouldn't be tolerated. Consensual social or sexual relationships shouldn't be lumped with abuse.

The vast majority of situations involving consanguinamory, whether flings or lifelong romances, whether initiated through GSA or not, are never brought into the criminal system and never make news. If people think the cases below are the totality of these, they are mistaken.

Along with the objective news articles came much pearl-clutching from the usual crowd of bigots, and even death threats in comments sections spewed at (alleged or possible) lovers and anyone who points out that the pearl-clutchers and finger-waggers have no good reason to deny these people their basic rights.

While these news items no doubt send some people into their masturbatory frienzies even as they say the participants are "sick" and they "other" them and want them in prison, it is good to consider the situations in light of reason. Some people are prejudiced against anything different than what they want, what they have, or what they'll allow themselves to have. But, if we don't treat all adults equally, if we don't take consent seriously, if they don't have their right to love each other how they mutually agree, then all of our rights in danger.

The first case we're looking at in this entry is from Oklahoma, and primarily about a mother who married the genetic daughter she didn't raise. There was a partially-viewable report by Scott Rains at We blogged about this situation already here, but more information came in later. claimed to have "5 Fast Facts You Need to Know" as written by . Their coverage is actually impressively thorough as far as linking to, and quoting various sources about the case.

patricia spann, misty velvet dawn spann
Patricia Spann and her daughter Misty Velvet Dawn Spann. (Facebook/Patricia Spann)
1. Patricia Spann Also Married Her Son in 2008 and That Marriage Was Annulled

So, if these were sexual relationships, it appears she might be especially prone to experience Genetic Sexual Attraction. Some people only experience GSA for one genetic relative with whom they were reunited, even if they are reunited with several.
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Monday, September 26, 2016

Do These Relationships Work?

A search phrase that once brought someone here on which I want to focus is…
"do incest relationships work"

To answer that, one must describe what means for a relationship to "work."

For some people, a relationship only "works" if it is heterosexual and always monogamous, involves religious and civilly affirmed marriage, produces (or at least raises) children, and lasts until one of the spouses dies.

For me, a relationship "works" if you are, as a whole and excluding artificial negatives like prosecution and discrimination, better off as a result of having been in the relationship. What makes you "better off" is up to you. It could be strictly that you enjoyed this person's company, but it could also be that you had children together, or helped each other grow as people, or made new friends through the other person, or helped each other's careers, or... well, any number of things. A relationship doesn't have to last until death to leave you better off.

A sure sign a relationship isn't working is if one of you is abusing the other, or you're abusing each other.

Over the years, I've been fortunate enough to talk with countless people who've been involved in consanguinamory. A few of them have even been generous enough to be interviewed. For most of the people I've talked with, the relationships have worked. If the consanguinamory is in the past, they have fond memories of the great times that were shared and the emotional growth they had as a result, even the sexual confidence they developed. For many, the relationship continues and provides times of unmatched bliss and intense intimacy, even shared parenting that they have found fulfilling.

So yes, they can and do work.

And, by the way, some of them are heterosexual, always monogamous, produce and raise great people, and last until death, and it is an injustice that they are still discriminated against under the law.
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Saturday, September 24, 2016

True Religious Freedom Supports Full Marriage Equality

Jay Bookman at points out, given the controversy over recent "religious freedom" laws being passed in US states, that true religious freedom supports full marriage equality.

Under the First Amendment, government can’t pass laws that are intended to restrict religious liberty. Such laws are not at stake in this discussion. However, state and local laws that accidentally impinge on religious liberty — zoning laws, health and safety laws, etc., criminal statutes, laws against polygamy — have been allowed as long as those laws at least have a rational basis.

Under SB 129, however, a mere “rational basis” would no longer be sufficient. Laws that impinge accidentally on religious liberty would be allowed ONLY when those laws advance a “compelling governmental interest.
Bookman points out the history of denying the polygamous freedom to marry.
Peter Nash Swisher, a national expert in family law and a professor at the University of Richmond Law School, has looked at the issue and is very dubious about whether such a compelling interest can be found. With recent Supreme Court decisions combined with state and federal RFRAs, ” … proponents of polygamous marriage now have, in my opinion, a very strong case for validating polygamous marriages on cultural, religious, and constitutional grounds.

As Swisher notes, the Old Testament is full of instances of polygamy, and the Muslim faith allows a man to have as many as four wives. Martin Luther, the founder of Protestantism, “observed that polygamy does not contradict Scripture, and so cannot be prohibited by Christianity.”

There are ordained ministers ready and eager to perform same-gender weddings, polyamorous weddings, polygamous weddings, and consanguinamorous weddings. If a state truly wants to support religious freedom, it will support full marriage equality.

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Friday, September 23, 2016

Taking the Steps

I have frequently seen the question asked, “It is incest to date my stepbrother?” or “Would marrying my stepsister be incestuous?”

Romance, dating, sex, or marriage between step relations is not literally consanguinamory, but is often subject to the same prejudices, which in some places and cases includes criminalization, as consanguinamorous relationships. With Discredited Argument #18 not a factor, the excuse to try to deny others their relationships is usually Discredited Arguments #1, 3, 19, or 21.

Although someone may try to control our relationships, we can’t effectively control what other people do with their love lives and we shouldn’t try. We don’t pick who our family members love or marry. As such, sometimes someone is brought into our lives as a step relation, such as a stepbrother, stepsister, stepmother, or stepfather whether we like it or not.

Sometimes, we like it. A lot.

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Thursday, September 22, 2016

Winning and Losing in Court Over Allegations of Consanguinamory

Here's a fascinating, although short, report by Julia Marsh at that uses the "i" word in the headline to get attention.
It was Daddy’s dirty little secret that he was having sex with his daughter, and it should have stayed that way, a New York judge ruled in ordering disgraced hedge-funder David Bruce McMahan a nominal $1 award against his ex-wife for dishing to a newspaper about the alleged incest.
That's how the article starts out. Many people reading this were probably thinking of a father grooming and forcing himself on his minor daughter. But keep reading.
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Wednesday, September 21, 2016

Clearing Up Consanguinity

Many people get confused about terms like "second cousins" and "once removed" when referring to close but not-so-close relations. Your parent's sibling's child is your first cousin. That person's child would be your first cousin, once removed. That person's child and your child would be second cousins.

Here's a helpful chart that can help explain it.


Remember, there's nothing wrong with experimenting with, dating, or even marrying a cousin. Consanguineous relationships and marriages are nothing new. There are some countries and a little over half of US states where the bigotry against marriage equality extends to preventing first cousins from marrying, but there are many places where marrying a first cousin is legal and common. I'm only aware of a few US states where sex between first cousins is technically illegal, so check the laws of your state if you are concerned. It should be searchable on your official state website.

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Tuesday, September 20, 2016

Jane Writes to the Haters

Jane continues to have a great blog about consanguinamory, and she just posted an open letter to haters.

Both of us were recently subjected to especially hateful attacks that literally wished death on consenting adults for loving each other and for anyone who would speak up for their rights. That's all too common, unfortunately, even though there is no good reason to hate on such lovers.
The chances are, you KNOW somebody who is or was involved, whether you realize it or not. If you cannot figure out who that person or people might be, then it stands to reason that consanguinamorous people are NORMAL people just like the rest of the human race.
Yes. People would be floored if they could suddenly know all of the people in their live who are in, or have been in, consanguinamorous relationships.

Go read all of it, and follow/bookmark her blog if you haven't already.

Also, if you want a place to have meaningful discussions about consanguinamory, be sure to join us at Kindred Spirits forum.
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Monday, September 19, 2016

A Brief Interview with Maggie

This blog has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love.

The woman interviewed below could be criminally prosecuted and face other forms of discrimination if the wrong people found out about her relationship. They are consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone; why should they have to hide or be denied their rights?

For some, consanguineous sex, especially between a parent and their adult child (in this case, mother and son), is a taboo thrill and more on the recreational side, especially for someone who is already highly sexually adventurous. For others, it is more about an overall loving relationship, forming a "double bond" or "double love," especially if they might be classified as consanguinamorous in their overall orientation. Where this relationship will eventually settle in that spectrum remains to be seen.



FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Tell us about yourself.

Maggie: I live in the south of the UK, in a suburban area. I work in administration. I have a university degree. I enjoy reading, TV, and sex.
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Sunday, September 18, 2016

Lesbian and Bisexual Women and Polyamory

Kathy Belge takes “A Look at Open Relationships for Lesbian and Bisexual Women.”

No two people in an open relationship are the same, but some lesbian and bisexual women get into polyamorous relationships because they want to experience sex outside the relationship. The reasons vary. One partner might have a higher sexual drive than the other. One or all of the people in the relationship may want to explore BDSM, which sometimes involves sex parties and sex and play with other people. Sometimes women who are bisexual choose to be in open relationships so they can continue to have sex with both men and women. Others just don’t believe that monogamy is right for them and polyamory is works better.

I would say it is often more than “to experience sex outside the relationship.” It is often also about other forms of intimacy and emotional support, as well as companionship.

No two polyamorous relationships look the same. Some people choose to have one primary partner and have sexual relationships outside of that partnership. Sometimes all three parties are involved with each other. Each configuration has boundaries and structure. For example, one couple might decide that it’s okay to have sex outside of the relationship, but that romance and dates are not okay. Others may be involved in sexual and romantic relationships with more than one person. Other times bisexual women who are married to men have an agreement with their husbands where they are allowed to have relationships with other women, but not with men.

For open relationships to work, they be consensual and there be trust and excellent communication.

She lists several great resources.

It is good that monogamous lesbian and bisexual women are getting the right to marry, but polyamorous lesbians and bisexuals should also have their right to marry the persons they love. For that, we need full marriage equality.
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Saturday, September 17, 2016

Advice on Coming Out as Polyamorous to Your Parents

Since claimed (serial) monogamy is usually presented as the default relationship model, polyamorists sometimes have a need to come out to others, including their parents. has some advice at about coming out to your parents.
Maybe you’re already seeing more than one partner, or you’re hoping or planning to. Maybe you’re in a monogamous relationship that you want to open up. Maybe you’ve already told a few close friends, or your entire Facebook friends list.
If you're doing these things, your parents are probably figuring it out already, at least on some level.
1. Show Them Some 101 Resources

You don’t have to do all the work of explaining polyamory to your parents yourself. Luckily, many have already invented that particular wheel.

olyamorous educator Franklin Veaux provides a useful introduction to polyamory at his website, More Than Two. This PDF by Cherie L. Ve Ard and Franklin Veaux includes both a glossary and some common polyamory myths. The books Opening Up, More Than Two, and The Ethical Slut include lots of introductory material for those who don’t know much about polyamory and could be great gifts if you think your parents might want a more in-depth explanation.

Many cities also have local groups that have events and meetings, some of which are geared towards people who are curious or apprehensive about polyamory and hoping to learn more. If you think this might help your parents, you can try searching Meetup for a group in their area.
Go read through the rest of it if you have any interest. It is helpful. Be prepared for the standard arguments people try to make against polyamory.
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Friday, September 16, 2016

Discovering Consanguinamory in the Family Tree

I am [or, had been] active on [a certain Big Online Portal's question and answer service], especially when it comes to explaining the importance of relationship rights, full marriage equality, and decriminalizing consanguinamory. Someone had this question...

Family Tree Concerns..?
My Grandfather recently passed away and my Grandmother told us all that her and my Grandfather were never married, they had always celebrated an anniversary (or so we thought,) but didn't understand while she waited till he died before telling us. After further research into my family tree I have discovered that my Grandmother married her Uncle (is this incest!?!), my Mother feels all weird because it feels like her life has been a lie and the only person she could have asked and got a proper answer was her Dad but now he's gone so we are both just looking for some advice or if anyone has been or is going through a similar situation...
This was my answer, which was chosen as the best answer (thankyouverymuch)...
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Here's what matters: Was your grandfather a good person? A good spouse to your Grandmother? A good parent? A good grandparent? THAT is what matters, not any genetic or legal relation to your grandmother. There's no lie about any of that. Your mother's life is no different now than it was before she knew that information. She's just allowing cultural prejudices to influence her reaction. Your grandparents had what is called a common-law marriage. As long as they were good to each other, that is what matters.

You didn't make it clear, but it appears you mean your grandfather was the brother of one of your grandmother's parents (he would still be an "uncle" to her if he had, at one time, been married to one of your grandmother's parents' sisters without any biological relation to your grandmother). Assuming there was a genetic connection (though it is possible he had been adopted into the family, too), that is still no reason for alarm. This is much more common than people think. People are finding out about this through DNA testing and family records, although family records don't always reveal the truth. If you go back further, it is virtually guaranteed you'll find you have consanguineous ancestors.

You don't have to go too far back in anyone's family tree to find these kinds of things. I doubt there is a person out there whose ancestry has nothing like this.

In other words.... you and your family are as normal as everyone else.
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Just about everyone has incestuous childbearing in their family tree. In some cases, someone was raped, which of course is a horrible, or there was cheating. In other cases, it was true love between people who were not cheating on anyone. If the law prevented them from legally marrying or from telling the truth, that is a problem, a terrible problem, of the law, and just one of many reasons we need full marriage equality. It is not something wrong with the lovers.
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