Translate

Tuesday, July 28, 2015

These Are the People in Your Neighborhood

At debriefdaily.com, tells us that she has two husbands, two wives, and it isn't kinky.
I was first introduced to such alternative relationships in college when a female friend of mine and I knowingly decided to share the same boyfriend. No, not a threesome, just going out with the same guy.
It was partially a matter of convenience, and partially the fact that we were close friends. We both liked him very much, didn’t want to fight over him, and he wasn’t anxious to choose between us.
Regardless of gender, if two people want to be with (dating, living with, or married to) the same person, shouldn't that be up to them if they're all consenting adults?

She goes on to write about how she married someone called Alan, and about a year and a half after getting married, they met Eric.


He and I were instantly attracted to each other and, as Alan had no objection, we began getting to know each other better.
Over time, I found myself falling in love with Eric. Alan certainly wasn’t blind to this, so we all got together to discuss it. This turned out to be one of the most important conversations of my life, and led to an increase in my family.

Alan and Eric let me make the sleeping arrangements, and I worked to make sure I spent time with both of them.
To all outward appearances we were a married couple with a male friend living with us.
There are people who fall apart when they hear about such relationships, but as long as this is what those involved wanted, what's the problem?
Fast forward to today, and our family is now composed of Alan, Eric, Leslie, Amber, and myself, plus our four children, and Amber is currently pregnant.

Eric and Leslie are legally married, and we’ve added a few rooms to the house. We have two family meetings a week, one of which is for adults only, both of which can get lively and loud. We’ve had our arguments over money, people monopolising other people’s time, dealing with children’s issues, and so forth like any other family – but we just have more voices in the discussion.
She writes a bit about finances, childcare, housekeeping, and cooking.
Our respective families are aware that Alan and I are married, that Eric and Leslie are married, and that Amber is living with us.

If they are suspicious of anything else, they’ve never mentioned it. Fascinating how people avoid asking uncomfortable questions.
Often, surrounding family that might not understand or be thrilled with a relationship or relationships prefers to leave things unsaid. They might get upset when someone actively and explicitly comes out, or they might realize that things will be better off with the relationship being openly acknowledged. While warm and loving support is best, as long as the families aren't hostile or destructive, that's a good thing. Everyone must decide for themselves whether or not to come out, how to come out, and to whom to come out. My personal opinion is that sometimes, even when you want to shout from the rooftops how much you love someone, the best option for the time being is to leave things unsaid if the surrounding families aren't asking the obvious questions.

She goes on to write about polygyny as depicted in Big Love and how that is very different from the family of which she's a member. As I frequently say, polyamorous people are diverse and polyamory can be found in many forms.

— — —

Intergenerational Relationships Can Work

Are you in or considering an intergenerational relationship? Are you against such relationships?

By “intergenerational,” I’m talking about ADULT generations. I’m talking about CONSENTING ADULTS. I just wanted to get that out of the way. I’m not talking about adults preying on minors, pedophilia, etc.

The Bad

Although not illegal, nonconsanguineous relationships between adults with a sizable age difference do face prejudice and discrimination. Stereotypical assumptions, expressed as though they are automatically negative, are made about both the younger and older people involved in such relationships.

The older person, depending on age/gender, is often said to be:

— — —

Monday, July 27, 2015

Lesbian and Bisexual Women and Polyamory

Kathy Belge takes “A Look at Open Relationships for Lesbian and Bisexual Women.”

No two people in an open relationship are the same, but some lesbian and bisexual women get into polyamorous relationships because they want to experience sex outside the relationship. The reasons vary. One partner might have a higher sexual drive than the other. One or all of the people in the relationship may want to explore BDSM, which sometimes involves sex parties and sex and play with other people. Sometimes women who are bisexual choose to be in open relationships so they can continue to have sex with both men and women. Others just don’t believe that monogamy is right for them and polyamory is works better.

I would say it is often more than “to experience sex outside the relationship.” It is often also about other forms of intimacy and emotional support, as well as companionship.

No two polyamorous relationships look the same. Some people choose to have one primary partner and have sexual relationships outside of that partnership. Sometimes all three parties are involved with each other. Each configuration has boundaries and structure. For example, one couple might decide that it’s okay to have sex outside of the relationship, but that romance and dates are not okay. Others may be involved in sexual and romantic relationships with more than one person. Other times bisexual women who are married to men have an agreement with their husbands where they are allowed to have relationships with other women, but not with men.

For open relationships to work, they be consensual and there be trust and excellent communication.

She lists several great resources.

It is good that monogamous lesbian and bisexual women are getting the right to marry, but polyamorous lesbians and bisexuals should also have their right to marry the persons they love. For that, we need full marriage equality.
— — —

Sunday, July 26, 2015

Ten Reasons Why Consensual Incest Is Wrong

1) Some people get abused by relatives. That makes consensual incest wrong the same way abuse/assault by non-relatives makes sex in general wrong.

2) Many people are disgusted by the idea. If something disgusts many people, it must be wrong for everybody! People are so disgusted by the possibility of having sex with a close relative that they always get DNA tests before having sex with anyone, to just be sure they aren’t having sex with a relative.

3) It increases the risks of birth defects, and anything that does that is wrong and shouldn’t be allowed, just like we don’t allow pre-menopausal women over the age of 35 to have sex, and we don’t let anybody with obvious, serious inheritable diseases have sex. Yup, this is why it is wrong for two half-brothers to fall in love, or why stepsiblings who didn’t even meet until they were teenagers shouldn’t be together. They might make a mutant baby!

4) It’s illegal in some places, and something being illegal always makes it wrong. You know, like harboring runaway slaves? That’s why having sex with your first cousin is wrong in Texas but just fine in almost every other US state, half of which legally marry first cousins, and why consensual incest between closer family members isn’t wrong in Rhode Island, which has no laws against consensual adult incest.

5) It’s not natural, and people should only be allowed natural things, like bicycles, smart phones, and iPads. OK, maybe it is natural in some species. But we shouldn’t lower ourselves to the behavior of other animals, who make wars and pollute the planet.

6) Someone’s religion is against it. And if someone’s religion is against it, nobody else should be able to do it. You’ll never find examples of acceptable consensual incest in the Bible.

7) There are so many people you’re not closely related to. That makes consensual incest (consanguinamory) wrong, just like there being plenty of people in your own race makes interracial relationships wrong.

8) Only rural poor people would ever do such a thing, not royals or educated people. And anything done by rural poor people is wrong.

9)There is often a power differential in consensual incestuous relationships, and relationships with power differentials are just wrong. That’s why no President of the United States, Senator, Governor, judge, district attorney, or police chief has ever been married, and we bar wealthy or intelligent people from marrying someone who isn’t as wealthy or intelligent as them. Yes, power differentials are exactly why half siblings close in age, even if they didn’t meet until they were adults, shouldn’t be allowed to be together.

10) It messes up family structures and dynamics. That’s why every family’s dynamics are always required to be evaluated and corrected by outsiders, and people are never allowed to break up if a breakup will mess up the dynamics of the family. And people are never allowed to work with family members, as that could cause conflicts or too much reliance on family. Yes, messing up a family dynamic is why genetic relatives who were raised by different families should never be allowed to be together.

Yup, we need to let all of those people who’ve found that a close relative makes the best life partner for them, or perhaps just a trustworthy sexual partner, know what they are doing is wrong and they should stop, and go settle for someone else, who I’m sure will be just fine being the B-list choice for someone who’d rather be with the person they see when the family gets together. People need to make sure they aren’t doing anything that makes anyone who’s not involved uncomfortable. That needs to come before their happiness.

This bit of sarcasm is brought to you by someone who supports the rights of ALL consenting adults to their relationships with any and all consenting adults.
— — —

Saturday, July 25, 2015

Facebook and Twitter and More

Have you joined the Facebook group yet? Join "I Support Full Marriage Equality."

You should also like this page, Full Marriage Equality, and we meant that.

Are we Facebook friends? I want to be friends with all who support full marriage equality and relationship rights for all adults. Here I am.

Are we connected on Twitter? Here I am.

Are we connected on Tumblr? Here I am.

If you don't want to connect, still feel free to send me a note. I can be reached at fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com

— — —

Friday, July 24, 2015

Aunts and Nephews


More days than not, someone finds this blog by doing a search on something like...

incest, aunt nephew, how common
or
Is it incest to have sex with your aunt
or
Do aunts and nephews have sex
or
I’m in love with my aunt
or
Can an aunt marry her nephew

You get the idea. People are searching for information on aunts and nephews having a romantic or erotic connection or marrying. At least some of them are very likely to be aunts who are having sex or want to have sex with a nephew and vice-versa. It is a not-so-distant runner-up to searches about siblings having sex or marrying. Keep in mind that much of this entry also applies to aunts and nieces, and to uncles and nieces and uncles and nephews.

— — —

Thursday, July 23, 2015

Why Polyamory Will Gain Acceptance Faster

It’s not going to take as long for polyamorists to get our freedoms, including the freedom to marry, as it is taking (monogamist) gays and lesbians.

First, I need to have a bit of clarification here. Polyamory has always been around with some public awareness, whatever forms it has taken or whichever labels have been applied, especially if we go with the broad term ethical nonmonogamy instead.

What I mean is that in the US, as well as many other countries, there was a sustained period of trying to force everyone, or at least everyone but the elite, into heterosexual, gender-roled, married monogamy with spouses that were “acceptable” by class, race, religion, etc. Those deemed not suitable for marriage were often kept out of public life in general. For example, people with certain disabilities were expected to stay home or be institutionalized so as to not cause discomfort to people who would be uneasy around them. That oppression is in the process of being dismantled. We are ending the prosecutions, the persecutions, the stigmatizing, and everything else that makes it so people go into hiding (or hiding an important part of who they are) because of who they are and who they love.

Polyamorists haven't had a "Stonewall" moment. Many people cite the Stonewall Riots of 1969 as the start of gay and lesbian people fighting back against such persecution. It has been 44 years and same-gender couples are still barred from legally marrying in most US states and LGBT people still need employment protections (ENDA). But the momentum is rapidly building, especially with the recent Supreme Court actions on DOMA and PropH8 and the death of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” for military service, and all of the public figures who are coming out in support of the same-gender freedom to marry. There have been so many advancements since 1969.

Note that earlier in the 1960s, the US adopted laws to protect racial minorities nationwide, and the Loving v. Virginia case struck down bans on the interracial freedom to marry, over a hundred years after the Emancipation Proclamation. Women got the vote nationwide in 1920 and have made much progress, but are still on the journey.

So will polyamorists have to wait a couple of generations?

Happily, the answer is no. Here why:

— — —

Wednesday, July 22, 2015

Consanguinamory is Not Sick

As this blog and others have repeatedly shown, there is no good reason to keep laws, discrimination, or stigmas against consanguinamory (consanguineous or consensual incest sex or relationships) that is consistently applied to other relationships. One of the grasping-at-straws assertions that one might make when all of their justifications for denying rights fails is "people who do that are sick" or "those relationships are dysfunctional."

Before we do anything else, let's make it clear that we're talking about consensual sex and relationships, not abuse. It's not fair to point to abuse, assault, child molestation, etc. by a close relative as an example of how "incest" is "sick".

Alleging psychological problems or mental illness is something best left to mental health professionals, such as a psychiatrist (a medical doctor) or a psychologist. The opinion of someone without such credentials and some experience should be suspect. So, if someone makes the claim that we should criminalize or otherwise discriminate against consanguinamory because the behavior is based on mental illness, they should be asked 1) for their credentials; 2) if they have personally conducted an evaluation of the individuals involved and the dynamics of their relationship, and; 3) if all relationships they personally think are based on mental illness should be likewise criminalized or discriminated against. Usually, calling consanguinamory "sick" is just a thinly veiled variation on Discredited Arguments #1 and 3.

— — —

Tuesday, July 21, 2015

Starting or Joining a GSA at Your School

It's not too early to think about the next school year. For most schools in the US, August or September will bring a new school year. Not only are school years a time for intense personal discovery and growth, but they are usually a time of intense pressures, including the pressure to conform, and bullying.

For those reasons, Gay-Straight Alliances are critical.

If your school doesn't have a GSA, consider starting one. See here and here.

If you school already has a GSA, consider joining and/or supporting it. Student, faculty, and parental support are all needed.

Whether starting or joining, please do what you can to make the GSA welcoming, inclusive, and accepting of all whose identity, sexual orientation, relationship orientation, or existing relationship (or that of their parents) makes them a target for discrimination or bullying.






— — —

Monday, July 20, 2015

Dear Evan Wolfson: Please Keep Freedom to Marry Going

Evan Wolfson and everyone at Freedom to Marry have done a lot of good in helping the US progress to getting the nationwide limited same-gender freedom to marry. That we applaud with great enthusiasm and joy. That we don't applaud is plans to shut down the organization. From a report at reason.com by ...
The next morning, Mr. Wolfson said he and his "bleary-eyed" team met to plan the shutdown. Most of the 30 or so on staff will be gone by December, he said, while "a little rump of us" will remain to turn out the lights in February.
For many of the same reasons this blog will continue, Freedom to Marry should also continue. There is still so much progress to be made. Here are just a few reasons why Freedom to Marry can still do a lot of good:

1) There are still adults in the US who do not have the freedom to marry (or even simply be with) the person(s) they love, including many LGBT people. We need full marriage equality.

2) Other countries need help, including from the US, to move towards marriage equality.

3) Marriages will need protection in legislatures, administrations, and courts. Even though a decision by the US Supreme Court should settle the matter in the US, there are still going to be attacks, foot-dragging, noncompliance, and all sorts of ways marriages will be denied equal treatment. Many people can testify that having specific civil rights legislation in place has not ensured everyone has their rights; vigilance is needed.


4) Supreme Court decisions have been reversed before. A 5-4 decision isn't a safe as we'd like to believe. A new President will be elected in 2016. Will the new President make the right appointments to the Court and lower courts?

5) We need a federal Marriage Equality Amendment. Who better to lobby for it?


Let's keep going until every adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion is free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults, without fear of prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

What do ya say? Let's reward the staff for their success so far by keeping them employed in the work that's still ahead.
— — —

Have a Look Around

Are you new to this blog? Maybe you've been here before, but have missed some of the features here.

Over there in the column on the right you can find ways to connect and to follow this blog.

There at the top of the page are tabs with drop-downs of some important pages, entries, and links.

There's a Welcome message and there's an About This Blog page, and you can read about the triad that originally inspired this blog.

There's a Glossary so that you can become familiar with terms frequently used here.

I explain why we need solidarity in supporting full marriage equality and I debunk all the arguments that you'll ever hear made against equality.

On the Case Studies page I feature interviews with people who have been denied their rights, so you can "meet" people who are, or have been, in consensual loving relationships who have are harmed by the lack of equality under the law.

Are you here because of polyamory or polygamy? Perhaps you're here because this blog covers Genetic Sexual Attraction or consanguinamory (consensual incest)? Do you need help?


Whether you're a family member or friend who is looking for more information, or a journalist, or are someone who is looking to help the cause, I hope you are helped by what is here.

This blog is a labor of love. There's no advertising and we don't accept monetary contributions. Want to help? Spread the word. Also, this blog DOES accept content submissions (fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com), but makes no offer, implicit nor explicit, of compensation nor guarantees that it will be used.

A very kind person improved this blog's template. I hope you are liking the look. I still need to take care of a couple of things.

Tell me what you think!
— — —

Sunday, July 19, 2015

Hate Adds Pain to Genetic Sexual Attraction and GSA Relationships

I'm bumping up this entry I wrote a while back because there are people who need to see it.

Genetic Sexual Attraction (GSA) is a condition that may be experienced when close genetic relatives who have been separated for significant amounts of time, often since birth or before puberty, are reunited or introduced. It describes an intense physical and/or emotional attraction, and may include sexual attraction or be expressed through sex. The attraction may or may not be mutual. Even if mutual, not all GSA results in sexual contact. (Some people prefer the term "Genetic Attraction.")

Reading accounts or watching documentaries about those struggling with GSA feelings or related actions can be heartbreaking. There are many reasons as to why.

First of all, there are all of the problems that come with any attraction or any relationship. One person is attracted to someone else and that attraction is not mutual, or is mutual only for period of time. Relationships involve at least two different people who are trying to get along with each other and to deal with those outside the relationship as well. This can all be increased when the individuals are biologically related.

This new attraction and resulting relationship can bring change, disruption, and uncertainty to someone’s life, which is again something that may happen in general relationships as well, but can be more of an issue with biological relatives and the strong pull of GSA. This is especially a problem when someone has made a life and perhaps has existing vows with someone else. For example, a married, monogamous woman who gets in contact with a biological half-brother and finds herself strongly attracted to him and wanting to spend time with him, with or without sex. The time and attention taken from her marriage may be enough of a problem, but add sexual cheating to the mix, and it is even worse. She may love and value her husband, but feels this intense connection or draw to her half-brother that must be suppressed if she wants to have a chance to save her marriage. In that case, either choice is painful. Or what if she doesn’t want to save her marriage? What if it was dying before the GSA issue surfaced? Divorce is usually a painful experience anyway.

Some people experiencing GSA are disturbed by their feelings (or the feelings of their relative) because they feel a need to have that person in their life as a sibling, a parent, or a child, and they see sexual attraction or sex as incompatible with that role. They may feel like they finally had something they were missing for so long, only to have it taken away by unexpected or unwanted feelings and resulting tensions. Just the unfamiliar nature of these feelings may be bothersome.

In addition to all of the usual problems someone with an unrequited attraction or a mutual attraction between people can bring, one that is different with GSA is, of course, the legal, familial, social, and religious prohibitions imposed against sex with and marriage to close relatives. Incest between consenting adults is still criminalized in many places, including most US states, and bigotry against people in such relationships or experiencing such attraction continues to be perpetuated, sometimes in the most hateful and harmful ways.

This is sometimes compounded by a lack of solidarity. Even if there is a GSA relationship that didn’t break up any existing families, marriages, or relationships, and the individuals are happy together and able to share their lives in a functional way despite legal and social challenges, they may be rebuffed or judged when they reach out for understanding and support from others. Other people experiencing GSA who have decided not to have sexual relationship or have ended a sexual relationship or want to end their sexual relationship may disapprove of those who want to engage in or continue their sexual relationship. Or, if the GSA relationship is intergenerational, interracial [biracial with non-biracial], same-sex, or polyamorous, other people experiencing GSA may express disapproval based on one of those factors (in addition to all of the other people who disapprove based on those factors). Finally, those who have recently struggled or are still struggling for their own freedom to marry or just the basic freedom of association, such as LGBT people or poly people, may express contempt for consanguineous sex and love, including in cases where GSA is factor, or may be unsupportive of those in GSA relationships gaining the freedom to marry. Thus, instead of finding comfort from those who have also been targeted by those who want to control the sexuality of other adults, people experiencing GSA may find some more vitriol or at least a cold shoulder.

All of these things can bring pain and hardship to GSA relationships. Laws and public attitudes can be changed. There is some help for those struggling to deal with their feelings or the feelings of someone else or just to be themselves, but that help would be greatly aided by a change in the laws and public attitudes. That is one reason I call for solidarity. Someone who is struggling with GSA does not need the added burden of laws and finger-wavers that treat them as second-class citizens or with hate and impede their ability to make decisions in the best interest of themselves and their loved ones.

For help, see here.

[Edited for typing errors and clarity.]
— — —