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Friday, October 24, 2014

What Genealogists Know

With each previous generation you trace back, the maximum possible number of your genetic ancestors doubles. You can have 2 parents, up to 4 grandparents, up to 8 great-grandparents, up to 16 great-great-grandparents, etc.

On average, there are about four generations per century. For people born in the year 2000, their 8 great-great-grandparents were probably born around 1900. Sometime around 1800 their great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents were born (there may be up to 128 of them). About 29 generations back, or roughly around the time of 1250-1300, the total number of your possible ancestors for that generation equals or exceeds the total population of the planet, which was about 500 million people.

What gives? Well, first of all, if all 500 million of those people were your ancestors, they would also be the ancestors of all of the rest of us, too.

Secondly, you probably don’t have every person alive back then as your ancestor. There wasn’t a lot of interracial or intercultural parenting going on back then. People were more isolated, more people lived in rural countrysides rather than dense urban areas, and people were not nearly as geographically or socially mobile as they are today. It was very common for a person to be born in and to die in the the same village or town, having lived all of her or his life there.

This means that for many, many, many, many generations, there was a lot of what most people would call today “inbreeding.” If your spouse wasn’t your first cousin, your spouse was likely a second or third cousin, or a second cousin-once removed, our even your double-cousin, etc. And as I’ve noted before, even if they weren’t marrying them, people were having children with siblings, aunts or uncles, etc. (Even if not having children together, what do you think went on, given that pubescent teens, like most children, were usually sharing a bedroom?) Not only did these things not destroy humanity, but in Europe, the Renaissance was birthed in these conditions.

Coming back to around 1800, very few people are likely to have 128 great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents, just like very few of those people in 1800 had 128 of them in 1600. Because chances are, some of your recent ancestors were cousins, if not closer. If you marry your first cousin, you have no more than six genetic grandparents between you, instead of eight. If your parents are first cousins, you have six great-grandparents instead of eight.

If “inbreeding” was as detrimental as common misconception says, none of us would be here.

 
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Thursday, October 23, 2014

Discussing Consanguinamory


Consanguinamorous relationships are often ignorantly dismissed as dysfunctional, sick, or abusive, and sometimes the "incest" discussions found at porn sites do little to dispel that impression. However, and Kindred Spirits forum, which is NOT a porn forum, the discussions are sincere and reflect how real, beautiful, and in many ways, "normal" consanguinamorous relationships can be.

For example, here's a woman describing her relationship that was initiated through Genetic Sexual Attraction...
For [us] the most important things are the respect that we have for each other and remembering to always listen. [He] is my best friend, my partner and my lover. We have often wondered if the reason the sex is so good was because of the brother/sister element. We decided that we just fit together perfectly for what ever reason. Being non judgemental of each others desires and taking time to learn about what we both need.
He walks in the door after work and we are both just happy to be in each others company again especially knowing that we would give almost everything up to protect what we have.
Why would anyone want to kill such love? Why should they have to hide? Why shouldn't they be free to be open about their love and, if they want, to marry? There's no good reason.

If you want to discuss consanguinamory (consensual incest), I know of no better forum than Kindred Spirits, which is free. But if you join, be sure to immediately read and follow all of the rules, or you'll be kicked right off. If you are a Friend of Lily, it can be very helpful to join with others to discuss life in general, as well as the love you have or had.

At their site, this is the icon for Frequently Asked Questions...



This is the icon you use to register.


 And this is the icon you click to sign in.
 






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Tale as Old as Time

This blog is about relationship rights for all adults, especially the right to marry any and all consenting adults. It is not about criticizing nor promoting any philosophy towards religion, spiritual considerations, superstitions, the paranormal or supernatural, any religious text or writings/traditions/beliefs/practices/systems/organizations considered sacred, inspired, of authoritative by some, nor skepticism when it comes to such things.

There are both allies and opponents of relationship rights and full marriage equality in just about every religion and among those who claim no religion, and I welcome allies no matter what tradition, if any, they prefer or reject.

With that out of the way…

Considering the Bible as literature, which anyone can do whether they are a devout Christian, a Deist, a Hindu, an Atheist, or an Antitheist or take some other path, one can see that the Bible implies, outright portrays, and further addresses consanguineous sex.

Frequently, someone will ask “Where did Cain get his wife?” or “Did Adam and Eve’s children have sex with each other?” or some variation. Whether someone considers this speculation about fanciful myths or actual history is irrelevant to analyzing what the text itself says.

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Wednesday, October 22, 2014

Ten Reasons Why Consensual Incest Is Wrong

1) Some people get abused by relatives. That makes consensual incest wrong the same way abuse/assault by non-relatives makes sex in general wrong.

2) Many people are disgusted by the idea. If something disgusts many people, it must be wrong for everybody! People are so disgusted by the possibility of having sex with a close relative that they always get DNA tests before having sex with anyone, to just be sure they aren’t having sex with a relative.

3) It increases the risks of birth defects, and anything that does that is wrong and shouldn’t be allowed, just like we don’t allow pre-menopausal women over the age of 35 to have sex, and we don’t let anybody with obvious, serious inheritable diseases have sex. Yup, this is why it is wrong for two half-brothers to fall in love, or why stepsiblings who didn’t even meet until they were teenagers shouldn’t be together. They might make a mutant baby!

4) It’s illegal in some places, and something being illegal always makes it wrong. You know, like harboring runaway slaves? That’s why having sex with your first cousin is wrong in Texas but just fine in almost every other US state, half of which legally marry first cousins, and why consensual incest between closer family members isn’t wrong in Rhode Island, which has no laws against consensual adult incest.

5) It’s not natural, and people should only be allowed natural things, like bicycles, smart phones, and iPads. OK, maybe it is natural in some species. But we shouldn’t lower ourselves to the behavior of other animals, who make wars and pollute the planet.

6) Someone’s religion is against it. And if someone’s religion is against it, nobody else should be able to do it. You’ll never find examples of acceptable consensual incest in the Bible.

7) There are so many people you’re not closely related to. That makes consensual incest (consanguinamory) wrong, just like there being plenty of people in your own race makes interracial relationships wrong.

8) Only rural poor people would ever do such a thing, not royals or educated people. And anything done by rural poor people is wrong.

9)There is often a power differential in consensual incestuous relationships, and relationships with power differentials are just wrong. That’s why no President of the United States, Senator, Governor, judge, district attorney, or police chief has ever been married, and we bar wealthy or intelligent people from marrying someone who isn’t as wealthy or intelligent as them. Yes, power differentials are exactly why half siblings close in age, even if they didn’t meet until they were adults, shouldn’t be allowed to be together.

10) It messes up family structures and dynamics. That’s why every family’s dynamics are always required to be evaluated and corrected by outsiders, and people are never allowed to break up if a breakup will mess up the dynamics of the family. And people are never allowed to work with family members, as that could cause conflicts or too much reliance on family. Yes, messing up a family dynamic is why genetic relatives who were raised by different families should never be allowed to be together.

Yup, we need to let all of those people who’ve found that a close relative makes the best life partner for them, or perhaps just a trustworthy sexual partner, know what they are doing is wrong and they should stop, and go settle for someone else, who I’m sure will be just fine being the B-list choice for someone who’d rather be with the person they see when the family gets together. People need to make sure they aren’t doing anything that makes anyone who’s not involved uncomfortable. That needs to come before their happiness.

This bit of sarcasm is brought to you by someone who supports the rights of ALL consenting adults to their relationships with any and all consenting adults.
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Season 2 of My Five Wives is Underway


Not to be confused with another polygyny show, "Sister Wives," "My Five Wives" is back for a second season on TLC. Here's what Erin M. at realitytea.com has to say...

my-five-wives1A quick recap of Season 1 shows us Brady Williams and his struggles with his five wives (in order from first wife to 5th): Paulie, Robyn, Rosemary, Nonie and Rhonda.
It’s summer time at the compound (are we aloud to call their homestead that!?). Nonie wants another baby & is emotional over it “taking so long” to conceive. I guess 24 kids are just not cutting it. Brady claims he is fertile, so no worries in that department. Rosemary is glad to have more relaxed time with the kids, while Robyn has dreams of writing a book. Rhonda is nervous about the results of her next mammogram (she had a breast cancer scare last year). Paulie says things are great & is planning her 23rd wedding anniversary with Brady. As the first “empty nester” of the group, she reflects on how much time she has on her hands now. Don’t worry, Paulie! More kids are on the way via a uterus near you.

She gives a thorough recap of the season premiere.

Over at tvruckus.com is Mechele R. Dillard's take...
The wives, of course, are sharing one man; it doesn’t take a lot of imagination to understand how that is a pressure cooker just waiting to blow. And, the children are placed in, at minimum, numerous social potholes growing up—explaining why one has five “moms” probably gets tired after a while, one would imagine.

Shows like this will help increase awareness.
Apparently, there are up-sides to this lifestyle somewhere, but it is hard to glean just what they are from MY FIVE WIVES. “We just love each other,” Brady has said many times in his explanation of just why this group has chosen polygamy. But, to be frank, none of them (at least, the wives) seem particularly fulfilled by the practice. They are all constantly focused on worries, jealousies, differences, etc. with other wives and their relationships with the group husband.

"Reality" television is still television, episodic television at that. Often with shows like this, the entire season is recorded ahead of time and heavily edited to tell a story that leads to some climax at the end of the season. Often, participants are encouraged by those putting the show together to play up conflicts and emotions.

There are many potential upsides to polygyny, depending on the participants, including sharing resources, multiple parents and role models for the children (as most polygynists do have children), companionship, and how about it being the kind of relationship the adults want? Mabne none of these people would be happy in a monogamous relationship. Yes, there are complaints and concerns, but just about everybody has such about their own lives and relationships. It is possible these women would have many more "downsides" to talk about if they were in monogamous relationships or no relationship at all.

I'm glad there are some US-based polygyny shows and that there was a Polyamory show. Because there are many forms of polyamory and  there's other forms of polygamy in addition to polygyny, I'd like to see more shows, whether dramas, comedies, or reality shows, as long as they give realistic portrayals.
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Tuesday, October 21, 2014

Frequently Asked Question: Is This Incest?

One frequently asked question is whether dating this person would be incest, or if doing this activity with a close relative is incest. The question is posed in different ways…

Is this incest?
Is it incest to date my in-law?
Is it incest to date my adopted sister?
Is it incest to date my adopted brother?
Is it incest to date my stepbrother?
Is it incest to date my stepsister?
Is it incest to date my uncle?
Is it incest to date my aunt?
Is it incest to date my cousin?
Is it incest to kiss my brother?
Is it incest to kiss my sister?
It it incest if my sibling and I have masturbated in front of each other?

The subtext is usually, “Is it wrong?

First of all, regardless of laws, I see nothing wrong with any kind of physical affection, contact, or companionship between any consenting adults or minors who are close in age, as long as existing vows to others are not being violated. This includes dating, literally sleeping together, seeing each other nude, hand-holding, hugging, kissing (of any sort,) contact with genitals, intercourse, living together, marrying, etc. If these people are right for each other and want this with each other, then it shouldn’t be anyone else’s place to object.

As I always point out, I’m writing about consensual experimentation, exploration, affection, making out, sex, love, dating, partnering, living together, and marriage. I’m not talking about assault, molestation, abuse, or coercion. If someone forces themselves on you, that is wrong regardless of their relation to you.

What is incest? That depends on who you ask. The definition I once found at Wikipedia was

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Monday, October 20, 2014

Winning Rights for the Polyamorous


Professor of Law Hadar Aviram has some advice for polyamorists who want their rights recognized and protected, pointing to the success of those seeking the limited same-gender freedom to marry. She references the Supreme Court's recent move to deny review, without comment, the state court decisions overturning bans on same-gender marriages. Then writes...
Shortly after the first San Francisco round of same-sex marriages in 2004 I interviewed polyamorous activists, who at the time expressed little interest in legal activism... More recently, however, with the success of marriage equality, the community is exhibiting more interest in legal recognition of polyamorous relationships. 
As I've said before, the only thing all polyamorous people have in common is that they are people and they are polyamorous. Some polyamorous people do not care about marriage equality in general, or government documentation of (their) relationships. Some do not care about marriage at all, even just ceremonial. Others very much want the polyamorous or polygamous freedom to marry and other protections for their rights.
Some of this renewed interest in legal mobilization is inspired by same-sex marriage, and some of it relates to the increased public visibility of polyamory; nonmonogamous relationships have been highlighted on several popular television shows, like Big Love, Sister Wives, and Polyamory: Married and Dating.
Momentum and visibility help. Aviram notes the incremental path to the limited same-gender freedom to marry, then adds...
Clearly, polyamorous activists are not solely benefitting from the success of the marriage equality struggle; they also have to overcome the hurdles that success has created for them. If their success is to follow a similar pattern, there may be other victories, in areas of adoption, custody and employment discrimination, that need to be won first. And a crucial component of their struggle’s success would be a significant improvement in public opinion of nonmonogamous relationships, which is complicated by anti-Mormon and anti-Islamist sentiments.

I've written about this before under Why Polyamory Will Gain Acceptance Faster and How You Can Help.

One way we're going to win full marriage equality is by getting people to remove that invisible asterisk. Of course, it would be nice if the Supreme Court made a definitive move for national civil rights.
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Do These Relationships Work?

A search phrase that once brought someone here on which I want to focus is…
"do incest relationships work"

To answer that, one must describe what means for a relationship to "work."

For some people, a relationship only "works" if it is heterosexual and always monogamous, involves religious and civilly affirmed marriage, produces (or at least raises) children, and lasts until one of the spouses dies.

For me, a relationship "works" if you are, as a whole and excluding artificial negatives like prosecution and discrimination, better off as a result of having been in the relationship. What makes you "better off" is up to you. It could be strictly that you enjoyed this person's company, but it could also be that you had children together, or helped each other grow as people, or made new friends through the other person, or helped each other's careers, or... well, any number of things. A relationship doesn't have to last until death to leave you better off.

A sure sign a relationship isn't working is if one of you is abusing the other, or you're abusing each other.

Over the years, I've been fortunate enough to talk with countless people who've been involved in consanguinamory. A few of them have even been generous enough to be interviewed. For most of the people I've talked with, the relationships have worked. If the consanguinamory is in the past, they have fond memories of the great times that were shared and the emotional growth they had as a result, even the sexual confidence they developed. For many, the relationship continues and provides times of unmatched bliss and intense intimacy, even shared parenting that they have found fulfilling.

So yes, they can and do work.

And, by the way, some of them are heterosexual, always monogamous, produce and raise great people, and last until death, and it is an injustice that they are still discriminated against under the law.
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Sunday, October 19, 2014

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Consanguineous) Love #20

"It is sick! These relationships are dysfunctional!" This is almost always a thinly disguised variation of Discredited Arguments #1, #3, or #19. There are many mentally healthy people in healthy, functional, consanguinamorous relationships.

As this blog and others have repeatedly shown, there is no good reason to keep laws, discrimination, or stigmas against consanguinamory (consanguineous or consensual incest sex or relationships) that is consistently applied to other relationships. One of the grasping-at-straws assertions that one might make when all of their justifications for denying rights fails is "people who do that are sick" or "those relationships are dysfunctional."

Before we do anything else, let's make it clear that we're talking about consensual sex and relationships, not abuse. It's not fair to point to abuse, assault, child molestation, etc. by a close relative as an example of how "incest" is "sick".

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Saturday, October 18, 2014

Have a Look Around

Are you new to this blog? Maybe you've been here before, but have missed some of the features here.

Over there in the column on the right you can find ways to connect and to follow this blog.

There at the top of the page are tabs with drop-downs of some important pages, entries, and links.

There's a Welcome message and there's an About This Blog page, and you can read about the triad that originally inspired this blog.

There's a Glossary so that you can become familiar with terms frequently used here.

I explain why we need solidarity in supporting full marriage equality and I debunk all the arguments that you'll ever hear made against equality.

On the Case Studies page I feature interviews with people who have been denied their rights, so you can "meet" people who are, or have been, in consensual loving relationships who have are harmed by the lack of equality under the law.

Are you here because of polyamory or polygamy? Perhaps you're here because this blog covers Genetic Sexual Attraction or consanguinamory (consensual incest)? Do you need help?


Whether you're a family member or friend who is looking for more information, or a journalist, or are someone who is looking to help the cause, I hope you are helped by what is here.

This blog is a labor of love. There's no advertising and we don't accept monetary contributions. Want to help? Spread the word. Also, this blog DOES accept content submissions (fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com), but makes no offer, implicit nor explicit, of compensation nor guarantees that it will be used.

A very kind person improved this blog's template. I hope you are liking the new look. I still need to take care of a couple of things.

Tell me what you think!
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NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Consanguineous) Love #19


“There are so many people outside of your family. Go marry/have sex with one of them, instead. It creates friendships between families.” There are plenty of people within one’s own race, too, but that is no reason to ban interracial marriage. I have many friends outside of my family to whom I’m neither married nor married to a relative of theirs. On the other hand, don't we all know unrelated married couples who actually drive their relatives apart from each other? Let adults marry the consenting adult(s) of her or his choice.

Telling someone who is happy with their lover that they should dump that person (or even be prosecuted for being with that person) and should be denied their right to marry because there is someone else they can be with instead is an arrogant and usually, very much a cruel intrusion into someone else's life. How would the person who says this like it if someone told them they had to drop their lover (if they have one) and go find someone else, even though they are consenting adults who want to be together and are happy together?

There are people in consanguinamorous relationships who could never find as much love and happiness with someone else, and trying to force them to do so isn't fair to anyone, including the person for whom they "settle."

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Consanguineous) Love #18

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Facebook and Twitter and More

Have you joined the Facebook group yet? Join "I Support Full Marriage Equality."

You should also like this page, Full Marriage Equality, and we meant that.

Are we Facebook friends? I want to be friends with all who support full marriage equality and relationship rights for all adults. Here I am.

Are we connected on Twitter? Here I am.

Are we connected on Tumblr? Here I am.

If you don't want to connect, still feel free to send me a note. I can be reached at fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com

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