Translate

Monday, February 8, 2016

Britney, Morgan, and Steve Wilkos

[UPDATE January 2016: Apparently these people were back on television or the episode was repeated and we're getting a lot of a traffic to this entry that was first posted in May 2011. I will add more below.]

[UPDATE February 2016: The show is either repeating or has another genetic father/daughter on an new episode. If you want more information on this blog, click here. If the current episode is a new one, I haven't seen it, so I have no idea if the situation depicted is abusive or not. Not all GSA relationships are abusive; many aren't.]

*****

There continues to be much discussion about a recent pair of Steve Wilkos Show episodes on a father-daughter couple.

There has been so much hatred hurled at the father in online discussions, or against both of them.

An adult should have the right to pursue love, sex, and marriage (or not) with ANY consenting adults. Britney was 18 when she began having sex with Morgan after being reunited with him. That makes her an adult. She can consent to have an abortion at an age younger than that. She can sign up to serve in our armed forces. Either we take the age of consent laws seriously or we don't. Either we say an adult woman can make her own decisions or we don't. Either we take the freedom of consenting adults seriously or we don't. Which is it going to be?

I side with freedom. I side with love.

Just because you would not do something does not mean other people shouldn't, or that it should be illegal. Think it through, please. You don't have to like that they love each other this way. But don't be hateful and bigoted.

*****

Continuing the update:

There is no good reason to deny consenting adult their rights, which include the right to have sex with each other or marry each other. You might not think the people featured on this television program have a healthy relationship, but I've interviewed scores of people, most of them in lasting, happy, healthy, loving consanguinamorous relationships.
— — —

Sunday, February 7, 2016

The Simple Test

Ginny pondered “slippery slope” concepts, and explained why having the same-gender freedom to marry and the polyamorous or polygamous freedom to marry does not justify things like marrying children.
Consent is the watchword of modern sexual ethics. It’s the difference between BDSM and abuse. It’s the difference between polyamory and cheating. It’s the difference between rape and… sex. Anything two (or more) able, informed adults give consent to in private is generally considered okay.

It’s simple enough, but some people want to make it more complicated than that.
“That’s not natural” really just means “That makes me uncomfortable.” And I hope we can all agree that an individual’s sense of comfort or discomfort makes for a really lousy moral guide.

Besides, good arguments can be made that polygamy is natural. Discomfort is definitely not a good guide for law or morality. Heart surgery is uncomfortable and looks disgusting to many people, but it can be a very good thing. Sticking up for civil rights can bring a whole lot of discomfort, but it is the right thing to do.
Someone might say, “But that goes against my religious code!” Fine, then don’t do that, and encourage your religious brethren not to do it either. But that has nothing to do with whether a thing should be legal or acceptable in the culture outside your religion.

Couldn’t have written a better answer to Discredited Argument #4 myself.
We hold very highly the rights of heterosexual people to live, love, and create families as they see fit. In time, I hope that consenting adults of any number and gender are given the same level of respect.
We've made some progress. Let’s make it happen!
— — —

Saturday, February 6, 2016

Frequently Asked Question: Why Is Incest Illegal?


It shouldn’t be illegal anywhere, as you’ll see. As always, we note that we are talking about consensual incest, such as between consenting adults and between minors close in age. We are not talking about anything involving coercion or force or molestation. There are laws against rape, assault, and molestation, and they should remain. We are talking about consensual incest, consanguineous sex and marriage, and consanguinamory, whether initiated through Genetic Sexual Attraction or not.

Short answer: It isn’t illegal everywhere, but where it is, it is the lingering result of sex-police holdovers, superstition, prejudice, and legislative inertia.

Long answer:

— — —

Friday, February 5, 2016

Discussing Consanguinamory


Consanguinamorous relationships are often ignorantly dismissed as dysfunctional, sick, or abusive, and sometimes the "incest" discussions found at porn sites do little to dispel that impression. However, and Kindred Spirits forum, which is NOT a porn forum, the discussions are sincere and reflect how real, beautiful, and in many ways, "normal" consanguinamorous relationships can be.

For example, here's a woman describing her relationship that was initiated through Genetic Sexual Attraction...
For [us] the most important things are the respect that we have for each other and remembering to always listen. [He] is my best friend, my partner and my lover. We have often wondered if the reason the sex is so good was because of the brother/sister element. We decided that we just fit together perfectly for what ever reason. Being non judgemental of each others desires and taking time to learn about what we both need.
He walks in the door after work and we are both just happy to be in each others company again especially knowing that we would give almost everything up to protect what we have.
Why would anyone want to kill such love? Why should they have to hide? Why shouldn't they be free to be open about their love and, if they want, to marry? There's no good reason.

If you want to discuss consanguinamory (consensual incest), I know of no better forum than Kindred Spirits, which is free. But if you join, be sure to immediately read and follow all of the rules, or you'll be kicked right off. If you are a Friend of Lily, it can be very helpful to join with others to discuss life in general, as well as the love you have or had.

At their site, this is the icon for Frequently Asked Questions...



This is the icon you use to register.


 And this is the icon you click to sign in.
 





There's a lot of activity there these days, so if you want to join in on the fun and learn something and help others as well as yourself, check it out!
— — —

Thursday, February 4, 2016

New to This Blog or Looking to Find Out More?

We support the rights of an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any other union offered by law), and any of those things without the others, with any and all consenting adults, without fear of prosecution, bullying, or discrimination. These are basic human rights and it shouldn't matter who is disgusted by the relationships of other adults or who doesn't understand why the adults would want to be together.

If you're viewing the web version, you'll see that over there in the column on the right you can find ways to connect and to follow this blog, and at the top of the page are tabs with drop-downs of some important pages, entries, and links. If you're viewing a mobile version, many of the links are below.

You are welcomed and affirmed here regardless of your gender, sexuality, or relationship diversities, and whether you are looking for more information, are in the closet or out about your gender, sexual orientation, or relationship, or want to be an ally. Are you here because of polyamory or polygamy? Perhaps you're here because this blog covers Genetic Sexual Attraction or consanguinamory (consensual incest) or because you think or know your partner has been involved? Do you need help? Whether you're a family member or friend who is looking for more information, or a journalist, or are someone who is looking to help the cause, we hope you are helped by what is here.

There's an About This Blog page, and you can read about the triad who originally inspired this blog.

There's a Glossary so that you can become familiar with terms frequently used here.

We explain why we need solidarity in supporting full marriage equality and we debunk all the arguments that you'll ever hear made against equality, so if you're against equal rights, please carefully read through that page.

On the Case Studies page we feature interviews with people who have been denied their rights, so you can "meet" people who are, or have been, in consensual loving relationships who have are harmed by the lack of equality under the law.

This blog is a labor of love. There's no advertising and we don't accept monetary contributions. Want to help? Spread the word. If you are a lawyer, attorney, or someone who works with a legal group or law firm, we'd like to hear from you if you are supportive. Also, this blog DOES accept content submissions (Keith can be contacted at... fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com), but makes no offer, implicit nor explicit, of compensation nor guarantees that it will be used. If you want to tell your story, that would be very helpful to others!

Tell us what you think by commenting or by contacting us.
Join our Facebook group "I Support Full Marriage Equality."

Keith wants to be friends with all who support full marriage equality and relationship rights for all adults. Be Facebook friends with Keith.

Follow the Twitter account for this blog.

Follow the Tumblr blog for Full Marriage Equality

The Final Manifesto is another excellent blog.

If you don't want to connect, still feel free to send Keith a note at fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com

Myths about Genetic Sexual Attraction
Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory
Bad Reasons to Deny Love
Ten Reasons Why Consensual Incest is Wrong (Sarcastic) 



— — —

Wednesday, February 3, 2016

The Work for Civil Rights Continues

Amanda Terkel at huffingtonpost.com had an article about what Evan Wolfson and Freedom to Marry have been doing since the limited Supreme Court victory in June...

Timothy A. Clary/AFP/Getty Images
Attorney Evan Wolfson is seen at his office at the Freedom to Marry organization in New York on June 25, 2015.
Since June, Wolfson and his colleagues have been carefully preserving as much as possible from their successful campaign. In an interview with The Huffington Post nearly a year ago, Wolfson said his plan was always for the group to engage in a "smart and strategic wind-down" when it was done. They hope that their resources will be of use not only for historians but for other activists on other issues.
As we've said before, Freedom to Marry should keep working for marriage equality.
The resources include four key pieces: a new website serving as a clearinghouse; donation of materials to Yale University; an oral history project hosted by the University of California, Berkeley; and a "War Room"-style documentary about the same-sex marriage movement, set to be completed this spring.
Freedom to Marry's revamped site includes a long-form narrative history of the movement's most significant milestones, analysis of the movement's messaging and most effective ads, and resources for best practices for winning victories at all levels.
Let's keep going until everyone has their right to be together and marry!





— — —

Tuesday, February 2, 2016

Consanguinamory and Reproduction

One of the most common reasons given to object to the right to consanguineous relationships is what I call the "mutant baby" argument. Even some people who support the right to consanguinamory and have even engaged in consanguineous sex themselves join with bigots in being strongly against close relatives having children together because of prejudiced backlash or the increased risk of birth defects.

In regards to the prejudiced backlash, the answer is not to let bigots have their way. It is for bigots to lose their power to bully, prosecute, and break up homes. Don't want children of consanguineous parents to have a hard time? Do not give them a hard time.

In regards to the increased risk of birth defects, scientific understanding is often lacking.

Most sexual encounters do not result in a birth. Many people who have relationships or marry never have genetic children together; some people in consanguinamorous relationships choose not to. So, we must recognize the differences between sex, marriage, parenting, and reproduction, and not ban the first three because of concerns about the last one.

But let's deal with that last one.

Most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant birth defects or other genetic problems; while births to other parents do sometimes have birth defects. There are happy, healthy, bright, attractive people born to close relatives who are productive members of society. We all know some, whether we know it or not, and whether they know it or not. It is that common. (Sometimes, they were conceived by an abuser, but often, not by an abuser but by mutual lovers.) We don’t prevent other people from marrying or deny them their reproductive rights based on increased odds of passing along a genetic problem or inherited disease. For example, it is entirely legal in the US and most other places for someone with Huntington's Disease to date, have sex, marry, and have genetic children. How can such rights be denied to people who are genetically healthy, simply because they are close relatives?

It is true that in general, children born to consanguineous parents have an increased chance of genetic problems than those born to nonconsanguineous parents, but the odds are still minimal. (UPDATE: Please see this wonky elaboration written by a Friend of FME.) There are US states and there are countries where consanguinamory is not illegal or at least it isn't prosecuted. Sweden will legally marry half-siblings in some circumstances. A comparison of the rate of genetic problems in these places to places that criminalize and actively prosecute consanguinamory reveals no discernible increase in genetic problems in the places that embrace this relationship right.

If a natural talent or gift runs in the family, the children born to consanguineous parents will be more likely to inherit and manifest that beneficial result as well; a birth benefit. But there are increased odds of problem with births to older parents, too. There's no stigma assigned to that, and it isn't illegal for older people to date, have sex, marry, and have genetic children together.

Anyone concerned about these things should have genetic testing and counseling. People who are not close relatives can pass along health problems, too.

The "birth defects" argument also implies that people with disabilities or some other birth defect are living lives so terrible that they should never have been born at all. Yet, there are many such people who are leading happy, fulfilling, productive lives.

But a current problem, in some (not all) cases, is that in giving birth, consanguineous parents will be outing themselves to someone who is prejudiced, and there will now be evidence of their (in some places) illegal love that can be used against them.

There are consanguinamorous parents happily raising their healthy children together. But some consanguinamorous relationships face very real threats. Again, the answer is to stop the persecution and prosecution. There is no good reason to deny consenting adults their equal protection of having their relationship and reproductive rights.

Consanguinamorous or not, anyone engaging in heterosexual intercourse should be aware of the possibility of pregnancy, the various forms of birth control and other options available, and the realities if pregnancy, birth, and raising children.

With all of that in mind, let's look at this thread on a consensual incest discussion board. (The discussion is explicit, so if you have a problem with that, you are warned.)

carebear82 wrote…

— — —

Monday, February 1, 2016

Advice on Coming Out as Polyamorous to Your Parents

Since claimed (serial) monogamy is usually presented as the default relationship model, polyamorists sometimes have a need to come out to others, including their parents. has some advice at everydayfeminism.com about coming out to your parents.
Maybe you’re already seeing more than one partner, or you’re hoping or planning to. Maybe you’re in a monogamous relationship that you want to open up. Maybe you’ve already told a few close friends, or your entire Facebook friends list.
If you're doing these things, your parents are probably figuring it out already, at least on some level.
1. Show Them Some 101 Resources

You don’t have to do all the work of explaining polyamory to your parents yourself. Luckily, many have already invented that particular wheel.

olyamorous educator Franklin Veaux provides a useful introduction to polyamory at his website, More Than Two. This PDF by Cherie L. Ve Ard and Franklin Veaux includes both a glossary and some common polyamory myths. The books Opening Up, More Than Two, and The Ethical Slut include lots of introductory material for those who don’t know much about polyamory and could be great gifts if you think your parents might want a more in-depth explanation.

Many cities also have local groups that have events and meetings, some of which are geared towards people who are curious or apprehensive about polyamory and hoping to learn more. If you think this might help your parents, you can try searching Meetup for a group in their area.
Go read through the rest of it if you have any interest. It is helpful. Be prepared for the standard arguments people try to make against polyamory.
— — —

Bookmark This Blog

There is a very promising new blog about consanguinamory that has just started to get off the ground.

Go here and bookmark it and/or subscribe for updates. There are going to be some great insights there and there is already worthwhile content. For example, there's this page for people who are dealing with their own consanguinamory and this page for people who think or know someone in their family is consanguinamorous. I'm bumping up this entry because the blog has posted a series of videos with narration that is important for people to hear.

Also, as a reminder, The Final Manifesto blogspot is a great blog to bookmark and follow for marriage equality issues,  and there's the related Tumblr, too.

Also, if you want a discussion forum about consanguinamory, see here.

UPDATE: There is a new site that has a blog, Friends of Lily. It's so good to see more places where people can get information.
— — —

Sunday, January 31, 2016

Are We Looking For You?

We may be looking for you. If you are someone who is described below, please contact us a fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com or http://www.facebook.com/fullmarriageequality

1) We are looking for attorneys who are willing to represent consenting adults facing discrimination in criminal and civil law for having relationships.

2) We are looking for counselors and therapists in general, and one in particular, who are willing to help adults who face prejudice, discrimination, and even hostility from family due to consensual relationships with other adults.

3) We are looking for people willing to tell their stories about the love and relationships.

4) We are looking for anyone else willing to advance the cause of civil rights relating to gender, sexuality, and relationship diversities, and included in that, we'd like to hear from graphic artists who are interested in making contributions. Also, have you joined or started a GSA or diversity club at your school?

5) We are looking for you if you've been in videos found online in which you are depicted as having consanguineous sex.
— — —

Frequently Asked Question: Is This Incest?

One frequently asked question is whether dating this person would be incest, or if doing this activity with a close relative is incest. The question is posed in different ways…

Is this incest?
Is it incest to date my in-law?
Is it incest to date my adopted sister?
Is it incest to date my adopted brother?
Is it incest to date my stepbrother?
Is it incest to date my stepsister?
Is it incest to date my uncle?
Is it incest to date my aunt?
Is it incest to date my cousin?
Is it incest to kiss my brother?
Is it incest to kiss my sister?
It it incest if my sibling and I have masturbated in front of each other?

The subtext is usually, “Is it wrong?

First of all, regardless of laws, I see nothing wrong with any kind of physical affection, contact, or companionship between any consenting adults or minors who are close in age, as long as existing vows to others are not being violated. This includes dating, literally sleeping together, seeing each other nude, hand-holding, hugging, kissing (of any sort,) contact with genitals, intercourse, living together, marrying, etc. If these people are right for each other and want this with each other, then it shouldn’t be anyone else’s place to object.

As I always point out, I’m writing about consensual experimentation, exploration, affection, making out, sex, love, dating, partnering, living together, and marriage. I’m not talking about assault, molestation, abuse, or coercion. If someone forces themselves on you, that is wrong regardless of their relation to you.

What is incest? That depends on who you ask. The definition I once found at Wikipedia was

— — —

Saturday, January 30, 2016

Intergenerational Relationships Can Work

Are you in or considering an intergenerational relationship? Are you against such relationships?

By “intergenerational,” I’m talking about ADULT generations. I’m talking about CONSENTING ADULTS. I just wanted to get that out of the way. I’m not talking about adults preying on minors, pedophilia, etc.

The Bad

Although not illegal, nonconsanguineous relationships between adults with a sizable age difference do face prejudice and discrimination. Stereotypical assumptions, expressed as though they are automatically negative, are made about both the younger and older people involved in such relationships.

The older person, depending on age/gender, is often said to be:

— — —