Friday, April 18, 2014

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #16


“Some men will be left out as polygyny increases.” This is based on the assumption that in a culture with gender equality, polygyny would still be more plentiful than polyandry. Anti-equality people, based on this assumption, insist that this will result in unmarried men devolving into criminals.

The mistake here is assuming that the second, third, etc. wives in a polygynous marriage would have wanted one of those unmarried men rather than legally sharing the man they did marry, and that the unmarried men would in turn want to marry them. Some of those men may want to marry men, or not marry at all. Why not allow people to marry the person or people of their choice? Why try to force people to settle? Also, the system is not closed. There are billions of people in the world and more and more people are reaching the age and status of eligibility every second.

There was a study attempting to link polygny to criminal behavior in unmarried/unpartnered men based in part on nineteenth century frontier America. Things have changed a little since then. And guess what? Married men commit crime, too. Most of the men in prison have been married, were married or had at least one girlfriend at the time they were convicted.

Maybe men in the hypothetical polygynous community who don’t get married are violent people. Is it better that they have a wife to beat instead of committing crimes on the street? I don’t want to be the one who tells a woman she can’t marry the man/men or woman/women she wants; rather, she has to marry a less desirable man so that he can take his aggression out on her.

The warnings that polyamorous or polygamous freedom to marry will result in an increase of violent gangs of unmarried men committing crimes falls flat when one considers the overwhelming data revealing both that 1) Men in the US are getting married for the first time later than ever, and 2) Crime rates in the US have decreased.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #15 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Consanguineous) Love #17

Thursday, April 17, 2014

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #15


“This oppresses women.” Gender equality and the right to be unmarried or to divorce are necessary components of full marriage equality. Anti-equality people often point to polygyny in certain cultures, past and present, where women do not have equal rights. However, this is not proof that polygyny, much less the larger scope of polygamy or polyamory, oppresses women. Women would be oppressed in those cultures with or without polygyny. If a woman wants to marry a man who has other wives rather than another man who is an unmarried man, and the other wives agree, why deny her that choice? If a woman wants to marry two men, or a man and a woman, or two women, she should have that right, too. Some women enjoy polygamy, including polygyny, and they should have the right to consent to the marriage of their choosing.

The law does not prevent a man from having relationships with, and children with, multiple women, but he can't legally marry all of them even if they all agree. The law does not prevent a woman from having relationships with, and children with, multiple men, but she can't legally marry all of them even if they all agree. Three people can have a loving, lasting triad, living together for years and years, but can't legally marry. What kind of sense is that?

Protections against gender discrimination, domestic violence, and child abuse should be the focus, not preventing consenting adults from marrying. Victims of abuse would be more likely to work with authorities to stop abusers if consensual relationships were not criminalized nor discriminated against.
 
There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #14

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #16 

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #14


“What about insurance/employment benefits?” There are many simple ways to deal with this. It is dealt with when an employee has more kids than the next, isn't it? It is not a good reason to deny the polygamous freedom to marry or polyamorous relationship rights in general.. This is something the law and/or employers and unions can figure out.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #13 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #15

Wednesday, April 16, 2014

Search Phrase of the Day

People search fore many interesting things that bring them to this blog. Today, someone got here by searching...
how to seduce my married brother

 If you suspect your husband's sibling is trying to seeuce him, you just might be right. This is more proof.

OK, much of what I wrote here applies.

That the brother is married matters if it is a closed marriage. This blog does not advise cheating, and where consanguinamory is still illegal, the bother's spouse(s) can use the law to destroy the brother and his sibling. The whole thing can be an ugly mess, even if law enforcement isn't involved.

However, if marriage is open or if it is dead, and those are two very different situations, there is a chance that might be right to pursue. In some open marriages, the brother's spouse can even be the key, for more than one reason. The spouse can test his possible interest, the spouse can set up certain situations. Use your imagination here.

So much depends not only on the conditions of the marriage, but the personalities of the people involved.

People are always welcome to contact me via private message or email (see my instructions on commenting) to get my specific perspective about a given situation.

More About NY Teen Hit With Criminal Charge of Consensual Sex

We recently told you about this case here.

Since then, I found two other news items about the case. They both reveal that the boy arrested is 17, but both give his name! Most news sources do not reveal names of criminal defendants under the age of 18, and almost as many do not reveal any names in cases of sexual assault or molestation so as to protect the identity of the person or persons who were allegedly victimized. One of the articles says he is "is accused of engaging in oral sexual conduct with an underage male family member." But what does that mean? The criminal charge implies it was not an assault, meaning the other person did it willingly. Also, "underage" can mean 16 or 2. That's a huge difference. Again, if he assaulted or molested a kid, charge him accordingly. If this was sexual exploration with a willing 15-year-old, this should not be a crime. Why haven't the reports indicated how law enforcement got involved? If it was the other minor complaining, that is a world of difference than if an uptight neighbor saw two boys enjoying each other and decided to put and end to it.

I'm tagging this with brother-brother and siblings even though we have no way of knowing. It could have been a nephew.

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #13


“This will cause inheritance disputes.” This can’t be a reason for the continued denial of the polyamorous or polygamous freedom to marry. Again, if we're talking about children, not all polyamorous marriages will have children. But even with today’s restriction of monogamy-only for marriage, we see inheritance disputes all of the time. Widows and widowers who were married only once get in fights with their own children, who may fight with each other. Then, in some cases, there are children born outside of that marriage. There’s divorce and remarriage with or without stepchildren or making more children, there are people who were never married who have kids, there are childless people whose inheritances are disputed, "monogamous" and polyamorous people who had children with multiple people without having been married to any those partners, on and on it goes. If anything, legalizing polygamy would make it easier to sort out inheritance. There can be default rules in the law, and people can come up with their own documented, legal agreements.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #12 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #14

Tuesday, April 15, 2014

Is New York Prosecuting Teenagers For Consensual Sex?

Most therapists don't consider sex between minors close in age problematic or abusive unless there is some form of coercion or duress involved. Let me get that out of the way first. At news10.com, I found this report that a "teenager" in Corinth, New York has been arrested and charged with a felony...
A local teenager has been arrested and accused of incest.
According to the Saratoga County Sheriff's Office, the teen was arrested on Sunday evening following an investigation into a reported sex offense.
The teenager was arrested and charged with Incest in the 3rd, a felony, and sexual misconduct, a misdemeanor.
Third degree implies this was NOT assault, but rather something the other person did willingly. See for yourself...
§ 255.25 Incest in the third degree. A person is guilty of incest in the third degree when he or she marries or engages in sexual intercourse, oral sexual conduct or anal sexual conduct with a person whom he or she knows to be related to him or her, whether through marriage or not, as an ancestor, descendant, brother or sister of either the whole or the half blood, uncle, aunt, nephew or niece. Incest in the third degree is a class E felony.
If this had been an assault, then he could have been charged with second degree (which specifies nonconsent) and/or some other crimes. Third degree should not even be a matter of criminal law.

Back to the article...
Authorities say the teen is accused of engaging in the sex offense with a younger family member.
He was arraigned and remanded to the Saratoga County Jail in lieu of bail or bond.

It is rather difficult to commit incest with someone who isn't a relative. Seriously, what's really going on here? If this was assault, charge it as such. If this was consensual, leave it alone. Since they didn't name him, and since they didn't say they were withholding his name to protect the other person, my guess is that he's a minor himself, and my guess is also that someone else ratted them out. Again, if this was an assault, charge him accordingly. Otherwise, this is a waste of law enforcement and ruining a young man's life for no good reason. A reminder to all to read this.

Sunday, April 13, 2014

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #12


“What about child custody and child support?” This is an especially flimsy objection to polyamorous (or polygamous) relationships. As we have noted before, adult relationships don't always involve raising children. Even so, nonmonogamous relationships between adults who are parents have always existed, and in most places, it isn't criminal to be nonmonogamous. So this issue is already being handled. Notice we could ask the same question about children from one night stands, donated sperm, surrogate mothers, affairs, brief flings, or supposedly monogamous relationships and marriages that end. What about children born to a woman whose husband wasn’t the man who impregnated her? All of these situations are entirely legal. A mediator, arbitrator, or court decides custody and child support disputes that aren’t resolved amicably. That would still be the case if polyamorous relationships had legal protections, including marriage.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #11 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #13

Saturday, April 12, 2014

Have a Look Around

Are you new to this blog? Maybe you've been here before, but have missed some of the features here.

Over there in the column on the right you can find ways to connect and to follow this blog.

There at the top of the page are tabs that take you to "permanent" pages:

There's a Welcome message and there's an About This Blog page, and you can read about the triad that originally inspired this blog.

There's a Glossary so that you can become familiar with terms frequently used here.

I explain why we need solidarity in supporting full marriage equality and I debunk all the arguments that you'll ever hear made against equality.

On the Case Studies page I feature interviews with people who have been denied their rights, so you can "meet" people who are, or have been, in consensual loving relationships who have are harmed by the lack of equality under the law.

Are you here because of polyamory or polygamy? Perhaps you're here because this blog covers Genetic Sexual Attraction or consanguinamory (consensual incest)? Do you need help?


Whether you're a family member or friend who is looking for more information, or a journalist, or are someone who is looking to help the cause, I hope you are helped by what is here.

This blog is a labor of love. There's no advertising and we don't accept monetary contributions. Want to help? Spread the word. Also, this blog DOES accept content submissions (fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com), but makes no offer, implicit nor explicit, of compensation nor guarantees that it will be used.

Tell me what you think!

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #11


“It will be a legal/paperwork nightmare as our system is set up for couples.” That’s what the bigots said about same-gender marriage and the Americans With Disabilities Act and just about any civil rights laws. Of course it is easier for those who already have what they want to keep things as they are. But what about all of the people who are denied their rights?

Adopting the polygamous freedom to marry under full marriage equality will take much less adjustment than adopting the Americans With Disabilities Act, the Violence Against Women Act and many other laws necessary to for equal protection and civil rights. Contract and business law already provides adaptable examples of how law can accommodate configurations involving three or more people, including when someone joins an existing relationship or leaves a relationship.


There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #10 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #12

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #10


“Polyamory/polygamy spreads sexually transmitted infections.” Unprotected sex with someone who is infected is how such infections may be transmitted. Twenty people could have group sex and a group marriage for fifty years and if none of them brings an infection into the marriage and they only have sex with each other, none of them will get a sexually transmitted infection.

We do not deny people their freedom to marry based on which diseases they have. In most places, people can legally have sex with multiple partners anyway. Polyfidelity can be encouraged if polygamy is legalized and polyamory is no longer stigmatized, which would actually reduce disease transmission. Polyamorous people tend to be more careful about prevention, safer sex, and actually talking about the issues involved.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #9 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #11