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Sunday, May 21, 2017

Sibling Rivalry or Sibling Revelry

I used to be active on a certain Big Online Portal's question-and-answer feature, answering questions related to full marriage equality and relationship rights for all adults, and occasionally questions about teenager sexuality. I still read what goes on there. Every once in a while, someone will ask a question like this...
I caught my siblings making out, what should i do?
I caught my 16 year old sister and 17 year old brother making out, I don't really know what to do. To be honest I'm very shocked, and a bit disoriented thinking about it. They're both pretty attractive, I don't see why they would shack up with each other when they could go out and get people who... aren't related to them.

I want to tell ma and pa, but they begged me not to, don't really know how to approach this situation, Or if I should just respect their privacy. I guess I'm just worried about their mental health, but I guess that's pretty unfair of me to assume something is wrong with them.

What do i do?
For all we know, the teens "making out" with each other are both half-siblings to the asker, and unrelated to each other, or they could be stepsiblings or adopted siblings. Or, they could be half or full-blood siblings to each other. (It might have even been a Genetic Sexual Attraction situation if the siblings have not been raised together.) Whatever their genetic, legal, and social relation, it isn't uncommon for siblings as close in age as they are, especially in their teens, to have such affection between them.

Also, we don't know where they live, and thus whether or not they live somewhere where it is legal for a 17-year-old and 16-year-old to have sex with each other.

Most therapists consider such sibling behavior, absent any coercion, force, or intimidation, to be mutual experimentation or exploration.

In general, however, my advice to someone in the asker's position is to:

1. Confirm this is a voluntary activity. If observing wasn't enough, ask the younger/smaller/less assertive/more needy sibling if they are being pressured, intimidated, coerced, or forced in any way.

2. Respect their privacy. Start by reminding them it's a good idea to be discreet and promise you will knock.

3. Protect and support them.

4. If needed, assist them in accessing contraception and health care.

(See this extensive advice at The Final Manifesto for friends and family of consanguinamorous siblings.)
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Saturday, May 20, 2017

Throuple Appears on Talk Show

A throuple has been appearing in the media to discuss their family and a pregnancy. The video should be below, but it in case it isn't, it is at this link.


Families like this should be free to be together, and to have all of the adults legally married, if they is what they want, and they should be protected from discrimination. There is no reason this polyamorous family should be denied their rights. Congrats to them on their love and family!
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Friday, May 19, 2017

Thursday, May 18, 2017

Is Being Poly Genetic?


The Ferrett addresses, “Polyamory Genetic? Is Homosexuality Genetic?”

My thoughts on a genetic polyamory link are the exact same as my thoughts on a genetic homosexual link:

I don’t care.

Right! We have many things, including the technology I’m using to write this and you are using to read this, which are not part of our genetics. What difference does it make? See Discredited Argument #5.

Even if the gays were, as some suggest, all conspiring in one big plot to annoy us fine-thinking straight people, wincing as they sucked distasteful d--- and reluctantly chowed p---y out of some misplaced form of rebellion, it should still be allowed.

The truth is, gay sex is between consenting adults, and it hurts no one but those adults – there are way more deadly car accidents caused by beers than queers. You may consider gayness to be a bad choice, but two people should be free to make bad choices together. And what people want to do for fun in their private life is something that should be allowed, no matter how distasteful it may be to me.

Agreed. See Discredited Argument #1.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2017

Tale as Old as Time

This blog is about relationship rights for all adults, especially the right to marry any and all consenting adults. It is not about criticizing nor promoting any philosophy towards religion, spiritual considerations, superstitions, the paranormal or supernatural, any religious text or writings/traditions/beliefs/practices/systems/organizations considered sacred, inspired, of authoritative by some, nor skepticism when it comes to such things.

There are both allies and opponents of relationship rights and full marriage equality in just about every religion and among those who claim no religion, and I welcome allies no matter what tradition, if any, they prefer or reject.

With that out of the way…

Considering the Bible as literature, which anyone can do whether they are a devout Christian, a Deist, a Hindu, an Atheist, or an Antitheist or take some other path, one can see that the Bible implies, outright portrays, and further addresses consanguineous sex.

Frequently, someone will ask “Where did Cain get his wife?” or “Did Adam and Eve’s children have sex with each other?” or some variation. Whether someone considers this speculation about fanciful myths or actual history is irrelevant to analyzing what the text itself says.

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Tuesday, May 16, 2017

Frequently Asked Question: Why Is Incest Illegal?


It shouldn’t be illegal anywhere, as you’ll see. As always, we note that we are talking about consensual incest, such as between consenting adults and between minors close in age. We are not talking about anything involving coercion or force or molestation. There are laws against rape, assault, and molestation, and they should remain. We are talking about consensual incest, consanguineous sex and marriage, and consanguinamory, whether initiated through Genetic Sexual Attraction or not.

Short answer: It isn’t illegal everywhere, but where it is, it is the lingering result of sex-police holdovers, superstition, prejudice, and legislative inertia.

Long answer:

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Monday, May 15, 2017

Cautious Consanguinamory


So, someone you already love wants to love you more, and you want to love them more; you’re mutually attracted. And you’ve considered the pros and cons and have decided to go for it. You want to add sexual affection to your relationship.

But you feel a need to go slowly.


You could be nervous and very cautious because it is new, because such experiences are an unknown to you, or because you’ve internalized cultural prejudices.
How do you move forward with care?
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Saturday, May 13, 2017

A Guy Who Is Like Dear Brother

More research shows again that many women look for partners who are like their brothers.
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Mother's Day


Happy Mother's Day Weekend to all mothers out there, especially mothers who face discrimination, persecution, and even prosecution for loving one or more other adults, and the mothers who've stood by their children who've faced bigotry for being who they are and loving who they do.

We're making progress. Hang in there and continue to care for your loved ones.

If you have plans for an interesting Mother's Day or end up having an interesting Mother's Day and you think our readers will want to hear about it, do tell! Sons and daughters.... any special plans?

I include those who've "adopted" mother figures, especially if you've done so because your own mother is no longer with us or was not a supportive person. Almost all of us have a mother in our life, even if that mother isn't officially family.
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Thursday, May 11, 2017

New to This Blog or Looking to Find Out More?

We support the rights of an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any other union offered by law), and any of those things without the others, with any and all consenting adults, without fear of prosecution, bullying, or discrimination. These are basic human rights and it shouldn't matter who is disgusted by the relationships of other adults or who doesn't understand why the adults would want to be together.

If you're viewing the desktop/laptop version, you'll see that over there in the column on the right you can find ways to connect and to follow this blog, and at the top of the page are tabs with drop-downs of some important pages, entries, and links. If you're viewing a mobile version, many of the links are below.

You are welcomed and affirmed here regardless of your gender, sexuality, or relationship diversities, and whether you are looking for more information, are in the closet or out about your gender, sexual orientation, or relationship, or want to be an ally. Are you here because of polyamory or polygamy? Perhaps you're here because this blog covers Genetic Sexual Attraction or consanguinamory (consensual incest) or because you think or know your partner has been involved? Do you need help? Whether you're a family member or friend who is looking for more information, or a journalist, or are someone who is looking to help the cause, we hope you are helped by what is here.

There's an About This Blog page, and you can read about the triad who originally inspired this blog.

There's a Glossary so that you can become familiar with terms frequently used here.

We explain why we need solidarity in supporting full marriage equality and we debunk all the arguments that you'll ever hear made against equality, so if you're against equal rights, please carefully read through that page.

On the Case Studies page we feature interviews with people who have been denied their rights, so you can "meet" people who are, or have been, in consensual loving relationships who have are harmed by the lack of equality under the law.

This blog is a labor of love. There's no advertising and we don't accept monetary contributions. Want to help? Spread the word. If you are a lawyer, attorney, or someone who works with a legal group or law firm, we'd like to hear from you if you are supportive. Also, this blog DOES accept content submissions (Keith can be contacted at... fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com), but makes no offer, implicit nor explicit, of compensation nor guarantees that it will be used. If you want to tell your story, that would be very helpful to others!

Tell us what you think by commenting or by contacting us.

Join our Facebook group "I Support Full Marriage Equality."

Keith wants to be friends with all who support full marriage equality and relationship rights for all adults. Be Facebook friends with Keith.

Follow the Twitter account for this blog.

Follow the Tumblr blog for Full Marriage Equality

The Final Manifesto is another excellent blog.

If you don't want to connect, still feel free to send Keith a note at fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com

Myths about Genetic Sexual Attraction
Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory
Bad Reasons to Deny Love
Ten Reasons Why Consensual Incest is Wrong (Sarcastic) 



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Wednesday, May 10, 2017

Now is the Time - Solidarity is Best


This piece coincided with something I had meant to write. It is about solidarity.

This blog, and the related Facebook page, calls for relationship rights for all adults, including full marriage equality. When we say that an adult should be free to marry any and all consenting adults, we actually mean it. We have not hidden that.

I've had more than one polyamorous person think that this is great... when they realize it means I support the polygamous (or polyamorous) freedom to marry... then react negatively when they realize it means I support the consanguineous freedom to marry.

Yes, I do. I support the right of an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, to marry any and all consenting adults. So yes, I support the right of a white woman to marry a man of African ancestry, or 30-year-old man to marry a 60-year-old woman, or a man to marry a man, or a woman to marry two men, or a woman to marry the half-brother she first met when they were both adults. None of these marriages hurt anyone else. None of these marriages hurt anyone, at least not in and of themselves. There are people who aren't right for each other, there are abusers, but that has to do with the individuals involved, and not the general freedom to marry.

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Tuesday, May 9, 2017

Consanguinamory and Reproduction

One of the most common reasons given to object to the right to consanguineous relationships is what I call the "mutant baby" argument. Even some people who support the right to consanguinamory and have even engaged in consanguineous sex themselves join with bigots in being strongly against close relatives having children together because of prejudiced backlash or the increased risk of birth defects.

In regards to the prejudiced backlash, the answer is not to let bigots have their way. It is for bigots to lose their power to bully, prosecute, and break up homes. Don't want children of consanguineous parents to have a hard time? Do not give them a hard time.

In regards to the increased risk of birth defects, scientific understanding is often lacking.

Most sexual encounters do not result in a birth. Many people who have relationships or marry never have genetic children together; some people in consanguinamorous relationships choose not to. So, we must recognize the differences between sex, marriage, parenting, and reproduction, and not ban the first three because of concerns about the last one.

But let's deal with that last one.

Most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant birth defects or other genetic problems; while births to other parents do sometimes have birth defects. There are happy, healthy, bright, attractive people born to close relatives who are productive members of society. We all know some, whether we know it or not, and whether they know it or not. It is that common. (Sometimes, they were conceived by an abuser, but often, not by an abuser but by mutual lovers.) We don’t prevent other people from marrying or deny them their reproductive rights based on increased odds of passing along a genetic problem or inherited disease. For example, it is entirely legal in the US and most other places for someone with Huntington's Disease to date, have sex, marry, and have genetic children. How can such rights be denied to people who are genetically healthy, simply because they are close relatives?

It is true that in general, children born to consanguineous parents have an increased chance of genetic problems than those born to nonconsanguineous parents, but the odds are still minimal. (UPDATE: Please see this wonky elaboration written by a Friend of FME.) There are US states and there are countries where consanguinamory is not illegal or at least it isn't prosecuted. Sweden will legally marry half-siblings in some circumstances. A comparison of the rate of genetic problems in these places to places that criminalize and actively prosecute consanguinamory reveals no discernible increase in genetic problems in the places that embrace this relationship right.

If a natural talent or gift runs in the family, the children born to consanguineous parents will be more likely to inherit and manifest that beneficial result as well; a birth benefit. But there are increased odds of problem with births to older parents, too. There's no stigma assigned to that, and it isn't illegal for older people to date, have sex, marry, and have genetic children together.

Anyone concerned about these things should have genetic testing and counseling. People who are not close relatives can pass along health problems, too.

The "birth defects" argument also implies that people with disabilities or some other birth defect are living lives so terrible that they should never have been born at all. Yet, there are many such people who are leading happy, fulfilling, productive lives.

But a current problem, in some (not all) cases, is that in giving birth, consanguineous parents will be outing themselves to someone who is prejudiced, and there will now be evidence of their (in some places) illegal love that can be used against them.

There are consanguinamorous parents happily raising their healthy children together. But some consanguinamorous relationships face very real threats. Again, the answer is to stop the persecution and prosecution. There is no good reason to deny consenting adults their equal protection of having their relationship and reproductive rights.

Consanguinamorous or not, anyone engaging in heterosexual intercourse should be aware of the possibility of pregnancy, the various forms of birth control and other options available, and the realities if pregnancy, birth, and raising children.

UPDATE: Jane has a great essay on these topics here.

With all of that in mind, let's look at this thread on a consensual incest discussion board. (The discussion is explicit, so if you have a problem with that, you are warned.)

carebear82 wrote…

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Monday, May 8, 2017

When Someone You Love Wants To Love You More

You may have come to this blog because you think or know someone in your family or closely related to you is attracted to you, or has a crush on you, or wants to getromantic or sexual with you. You may have had a mix of reactions to this, whether you've been shocked, surprised, confused, amused, bemused, worried, flattered, aroused, creeped out, repulsed, nervous, or some combination of these. So what do you do when a relative has a crush or very strong attraction to you?


These Feelings Are Normal and More Common Than You Think

These feelings are not so rare. There’s not necessarily any reason to get them to a mental health professional because they have these feelings. They are especially common when you were not raised by one another or with each other, but even if you were raised together or by one another, it's not unheard of.

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Sunday, May 7, 2017

Guilt By False Association

This post carries a ***TRIGGER WARNING*** because we will be discussing abuse and quoting/paraphrasing hateful, bigoted, discriminatory, sexist, racist, homophobic statements to expose the tactic of "guilt" by false association long used by anti-equality holdouts.

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Saturday, May 6, 2017

Frequently Asked Question: Is This Incest?

One frequently asked question is whether dating this person would be incest, or if doing this activity with a close relative is incest. The question is posed in different ways…

Is this incest?
Is it incest to date my in-law?
Is it incest to date my adopted sister?
Is it incest to date my adopted brother?
Is it incest to date my stepbrother?
Is it incest to date my stepsister?
Is it incest to date my uncle?
Is it incest to date my aunt?
Is it incest to date my cousin?
Is it incest to kiss my brother?
Is it incest to kiss my sister?
It it incest if my sibling and I have masturbated in front of each other?

The subtext is usually, “Is it wrong?

First of all, regardless of laws, I see nothing wrong with any kind of physical affection, contact, or companionship between any consenting adults or minors who are close in age, as long as existing vows to others are not being violated. This includes dating, literally sleeping together, seeing each other nude, hand-holding, hugging, kissing (of any sort,) contact with genitals, intercourse, living together, marrying, etc. If these people are right for each other and want this with each other, then it shouldn’t be anyone else’s place to object.

As I always point out, I’m writing about consensual experimentation, exploration, affection, making out, sex, love, dating, partnering, living together, and marriage. I’m not talking about assault, molestation, abuse, or coercion. If someone forces themselves on you, that is wrong regardless of their relation to you.

What is incest? That depends on who you ask. The definition I once found at Wikipedia was

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Thursday, May 4, 2017

How Nonmonogamous People Can Avoid Trouble


Believe it or not, there are still criminal laws in many places criminalizing consensual sex and relationships between adults.

It doesn't matter to them how loving, happy, and lasting the relationships are. It apparently doesn't matter to the people interfering that every dollar or minute they spend trying to stop consenting adults from loving each other is a dollar or minute that could instead go into protecting people, especially children, against predators.

In addition to the persecution and prosecution of consanguinamorous people, polyamorists, polygamists, and other ethical nonmonogamists can face discrimination and even prosecution.
Some awesome people put together a very helpful lists of state laws for polyamorous people in the US or considering moving to the US. First, note the disclaimer that there is an ever-present at the bottom of this blog. I'll mostly repeat it here:
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Wednesday, May 3, 2017

Why Do I Feel This Way?


Has anything like these ever happened to you?
  • You wake from from an erotically charged dream, feeling strange or confused because it featured a close relative or family member.

  • You're close to orgasm, whether you're alone or with at least one other person, and thoughts of a relative pop into your head, taking you to climax.

  • You've found yourself admiring your relative "a little too much," whatever the setting or occasion.

If you have experienced anything like any of those, you're not alone. This is more common than many people think, because far more people have such thoughts than will admit to most people they know.

If we're talking about someone who recently came (back) into your life and you, they, or the both of you were essentially raised through childhood apart, then it could be reunion GSA, which is very common in such situations. See this page for more information. Most of this entry also applies to you, but is more focused on people who were always in each other's life, or for the most part have been.

Is It Normal?

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Tuesday, May 2, 2017

How to Be An Ally To Consanguinamorous People You Know

This is about how to be an ally to someone you personally know who is in, or may be in, a consanguinamorous relationship, or any consensual relationship that is called incestuous. If you want to help consanguinamorous people in general, see this page.

The Short Answer:

A) Respect their boundaries. Do not out them or share their secrets, and do not press them for anything they don't want to share. ASSURE THEM YOU WON'T BETRAY THEM.

B) Be willing to listen.

C) Cover for them as necessary.


The Long Answer

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Monday, May 1, 2017

Starting or Joining a GSA at Your School

Not only are school years a time for intense personal discovery and growth, but they are usually a time of intense pressures, including the pressure to conform, and bullying.

For those reasons, Gay-Straight Alliances, or Gender and Sexuality Associations, or Diversity clubs are critical.

If your school doesn't have such an organization, consider starting one. See here and here. It's time to make plans for the next school year.

If you school already has one, consider joining and/or supporting it. Student, faculty, and parental support are all needed.

Whether starting or joining, please do what you can to make the organization welcoming, inclusive, and accepting of all whose identity, sexual orientation, relationship orientation, or existing relationship (or that of their parents) makes them a target for discrimination or bullying.






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Sunday, April 30, 2017

Are We Looking For You?

We may be looking for you. If you are someone who is described below, please contact us a fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com or http://www.facebook.com/fullmarriageequality

1) We are looking for attorneys who are willing to represent consenting adults facing discrimination in criminal and civil law for having relationships.

2) We are looking for counselors and therapists in general, and one in particular, who are willing to help adults who face prejudice, discrimination, and even hostility from family due to consensual relationships with other adults.

3) We are looking for people willing to tell their stories about the love and relationships.

4) We are looking for anyone else willing to advance the cause of civil rights relating to gender, sexuality, and relationship diversities, and included in that, we'd like to hear from graphic artists who are interested in making contributions. Also, have you joined or started a GSA or diversity club at your school?

5) We are looking for you if you've been in videos found online in which you are depicted as having consanguineous sex.
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Saturday, April 29, 2017

Advice on Coming Out as Polyamorous to Your Parents

Since claimed (serial) monogamy is usually presented as the default relationship model, polyamorists sometimes have a need to come out to others, including their parents. has some advice at everydayfeminism.com about coming out to your parents.
Maybe you’re already seeing more than one partner, or you’re hoping or planning to. Maybe you’re in a monogamous relationship that you want to open up. Maybe you’ve already told a few close friends, or your entire Facebook friends list.
If you're doing these things, your parents are probably figuring it out already, at least on some level.
1. Show Them Some 101 Resources

You don’t have to do all the work of explaining polyamory to your parents yourself. Luckily, many have already invented that particular wheel.

olyamorous educator Franklin Veaux provides a useful introduction to polyamory at his website, More Than Two. This PDF by Cherie L. Ve Ard and Franklin Veaux includes both a glossary and some common polyamory myths. The books Opening Up, More Than Two, and The Ethical Slut include lots of introductory material for those who don’t know much about polyamory and could be great gifts if you think your parents might want a more in-depth explanation.

Many cities also have local groups that have events and meetings, some of which are geared towards people who are curious or apprehensive about polyamory and hoping to learn more. If you think this might help your parents, you can try searching Meetup for a group in their area.
Go read through the rest of it if you have any interest. It is helpful. Be prepared for the standard arguments people try to make against polyamory.
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Friday, April 28, 2017

Successful GSA Relationships


There is a split in the Genetic Sexual Attraction community, as I have noted before. I checked out a certain other site's posting with the same title as this entry. Below, I analyze what was written.
We often get this question- Are there any successful GSA relationships?
To answer the question... YES!

Are people in such relationships willing to do interviews that reveal their identities? Almost never.
Or the media will inquire about speaking with GSA couples living in the shadows of society afraid to announce they are actually reunited family members living as lovers.

I don't think many of those couples (or triads) are likely to keep in friendly contact with these negative naysayers. I know some who don't, and they ceased contact after they took over an established forum where people had long been contributing.
The more I work with the GSA community the more I hear about heartbreak and pain, because most often these relationships do not work.
Because that is that is who you attract! You take a negative attitude towards GSA and you offer sex-negative counseling for people who are having problems. What happy lovers are going to bother to come to you, especially if they have to pay money (leaving an clear, easily obtainable trail of evidence some ridiculous prosecutor could use) just to use your forum?

Most romantic/sexual relationships do not "work" if you mean by that "lasting for a lifetime and that lifetime not ending in the murder of one by the other." Most relationships break up, or most of us would still be in our first relationships. But there ARE lasting, happy, loving and very passionate relationships initiated through GSA.

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Thursday, April 27, 2017

How to Pull Off Living With Your Consanguinamorous Partner(s)

So you're in a consanguinamorous relationship and having the time of your life, or you're considering it, and you want to know about the possibilities and how-to when it comes to living with your lover. Some of you will want separate residences but most of you want to reside together. Someday, the considerations written below will no longer be necessary because things will be better, but for now, these serious considerations are necessary.

On the "good news" side is that, while there is much bigotry in many places against consanguinamory, often including criminalization, so that some lovers can't marry or sex is illegal, there are no laws against relatives living together and most cultures encourage it instead of discouraging it. There is a long history of family members living together. Although there has been an "American Dream" portraying a "nuclear family" married man and woman (not closely rated) living in a single-family house with 2.3 children, the reality has always been different for most people. One common variation has been for a couple (married or unmarried) or a single person to live with their parents or have a parent living with them, having one or more sibling living with them, etc.
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Tuesday, April 25, 2017

Married in Every Way Except Under the Law

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, but are usually closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are, by law, denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law.

The woman interviewed below should be free to decide whether or not to legally marry the person she considers her spouse, yet they could be harassed, persecuted, imprisoned, and stripped of their children if they were open about their love. They are consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone; why should they be denied their rights? In much of the world, including all but a couple of US states, they could be criminally prosecuted for their love.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what she has to say. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it incredibly sexy, but whatever your reaction, should these lovers be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights?

***THIS INTERVIEW DOES GET SLIGHTLY EXPLICIT***


*****


FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourself.

Anonymous Woman: I am an unmarried mom of four living in the United States. I was originally from Brazil and would travel back and forth throughout my life. I am 40 years old. I am a corporate manager for a major company. I have one sister, 35 years old.


FME: You are in a spousal relationship with your biological son? How old is he?

Yes. Jaime is 25 years old. He is in IT at a large company but has an athletic build.

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Monday, April 24, 2017

Let's Break the Silence and Bring People Out of the Shadows and Closets

One definition of "taboo" is "a social or religious custom prohibiting or forbidding discussion of a particular practice."

That means it is possible for many people to be doing something and still have it "taboo" in the sense that nobody talks about it, at least not openly or publicly. The problem with not talking about things is that such silence can lead to serious negative consequences.

Thanks to technology, people can search out information about something without having to ask someone they live with or next to, or a teacher.

Want to know the most popular entry for this blog?

It's not even close.

The most popular entry on this blog, by far, is the entry addressing a frequently asked question of "How Common is Consensual Incest (Consanguinamory)? People from all over the world, but especially North America, Europe, India, and Australia, use search engines to answer the question, and those searches bring them here. The geography is no doubt a reflection of the blog being written in English. (Perhaps I should post more translated entries?)

Before going further, let’s make it clear this entry is talking about sex or sex-play or exploration that is consensual (we’ll call it Category S), not anything involving assault, molestation, or coercion (Category X). We shouldn’t have to reiterate that “sex” means consensual, but unfortunately we still do. (It’s not sex if it isn’t consensual, it is assault.)

The volume of searches and visits can't be accounted for solely by curiosity and journalistic or academic research. Some of that volume is from people who are, were, or want to be involved, or think or are certain someone they know is, perhaps even their partner. We know this because of the comments they leave and the messages they send, and all of the other entries they visit after coming to the blog through their initial question.

Based just on searches that invoke the question and other searches that find this blog*, there are a lot of people who have been involved, are involved, or want to be involved sexually or romantically, or want to be married to, someone law or custom forbids as too close of a relative. Yes, some people are completely disgusted by the thought, but clearly there are many who aren't. And some people are unable to hear or read anything about Category S without thinking of Category X, perhaps because they have been assaulted, which is terrible, but we should not avoid talking about sex because of assault. Even if person A is disgusted by the thought persons B and C having sex, or doesn't understand why these people are involved, persons B and C should be free to be together how they mutually agree.

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Saturday, April 22, 2017

A Good Grandma

If you're not following this blog's sister Tumblr, you are hereby invited to do so. Follow or bookmark it.

In this entry, a supportive grandmother asks about her daughter and grandson.
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Friday, April 21, 2017

Falsely Invoking Science to Justify Bigotry

The "genetics argument" against consanguineous sex and marriage is usually a smokescreen that misuses science to justify bigotry.  There are some people sincerely concerned about children born to consanguineous parents (many of whom would have their concerns eased with a little education on the matter) but most of the people who use the "What about the children?" argument are simply trying to excuse their prejudice, because it sounds better than "I don't like the idea of it."

Ask someone who invokes Discredited Argument #18 if they drop opposition when it comes to a relationship that will not create biological children, such as two cisgender brothers, or a sister with a brother who has had a vasectomy, or siblings over the age of 60. Most will be stumped or will say no, they still oppose such relationships, perhaps citing another Discredited Argument, probably #1 or 3.

Another way of exposing this as a smokescreen is to ask them if they support the same restrictions on an unrelated heterosexual couple in which the woman is 40 years of age.

The fact is, we don't prevent people with known, serious genetic diseases, or who have lived all of their lives in the same neighborhood with pollutants known to cause birth defects, or who have taken medications known to cause birth defects from dating, having sex, marrying, having children, etc., so why deny rights to consanguineous lovers who are more likely to have healthy children together or won't be having children at all?

Everyone knows happy, healthy, intelligent, adorable children born to close relatives, whether they know it or not, and whether the children themselves know of their true biological ancestry or not. I can point to such people whose parents were close relatives. Should they have not been born?

Most children born to consanguineous parents are healthy. That's a fact. We don't hear about that much. Instead, "horror" stories are sensationalized... where a tyrannical patriarch or set of people isolated their family and abused children, engaging in deliberate inbreeding over generations. The problems resulting are often caused by the lack of prenatal care, lack of medical treatment, poor nutrition, physical abuse, substance abuse, poor hygiene, a polluted environment, etc. That's as far removed from what this blog is about (loving relationships between consenting adults) as possible. Cases like that do not justify denying consanguinamorous adults their right to be together in whatever way they want.

Bigotry and restrictions against consanguineous lovers predate a good understanding of genetics. It is just that people now misapply facts about genetics to cover for their dislike of the idea of consanguinamory.
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Thursday, April 20, 2017

Canada Should Let All Consenting Adults Marry if They Want To

Polygamy as a criminal matter is back on the news in Canada, and as a result, someone identified as Lee Harding of Coquitlam wrote a letter printed at vancouversun.com...
The idea that something that is otherwise immoral or even illegal in Canada becomes somehow acceptable if someone claims it as a religious tenet is ridiculous.
Consenting adults should be free to be together however they mutually agree. I'm sure most Canadians, if polled on that without inflammatory phrasing, would agree.

Something is immoral if it violates human rights.
Consenting adults loving each other hardly does that.
This includes forcing or coercing children into life-altering situations, such as early marriage; even worse, into polygamy.
Ahhhh... yes, well child abuse a completely different matter than consenting adults being together. Guilt by association is not fair.
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Wednesday, April 19, 2017

Is There Any Sexuality You Don't Support?


Someone asked me that question privately.

If by sexuality, one means gender identity or sexual orientation… I support people being free to be themselves, as long as they don’t force themselves on others (like predators of children).

Regarding sex…

I believe in the basic human rights of freedom of religion, association, expression, and assembly. Anything consenting adults do together should be up to them, and should not be something to be subjected to criminal prosecution, discrimination, or bullying. Nor should minors close in age be prosecuted or forced into “treatment” for having sex with each other.

I don't consider rape, assault, or child molestation to be "sex." I'm all for prosecuting for those.

I think if someone is at the age of consent for sex, that age of consent should also apply to being recorded or photographed. If someone wants to make videos of themselves to take pictures of themselves or let someone else do it, and they want to show it to others, and another person of the age of consent wants to view it, fine.

Regarding marriage…

I support the right to marry for everyone. An adult should be free to marry any and all consenting adults.

But…

My support of legal rights and protections does not mean I personally support all sex or marriages.

For example, I think it is a bad idea for, say, a woman who needs monogamy to have sex on the first date, and if a friend like that wants my "support" I would tell her no, it is a bad idea.

Another example… I think it is safe to say we’ve all known people who announced they were going to get married and we cringed (if only inside) because we didn’t think they were right for each other, or perhaps in a place in their lives where they were ready to be married.

I am also against cheating (but again, I don’t think it should be a criminal matter). Cheating is when someone breaks an existing vow to another through action, rather than informing the person(s) with whom they have the vow that the agreement is ending. There are married couples who have agreements that allow one or both of them to have sex with other people, and per those agreements doing so would not be cheating.

However, if someone tells me they are happily involved with their close biological relative, or two close biological relatives, and none of them are cheating to do it, then yes, I support them. I support happy, healthy same-gender relationships, interracial relationships, polyamorous relationships, intergenerational relationships (adults), and consanguinamorous relationships.

I am sex-positive. Sex is a good thing for many reasons. We’d be better off if more people were having more sex and sex that was more satisfying to them. So generally, I “support sex.” Those who don’t think sex is a good thing or talk as though it isn’t may be doing it wrong, or may have forgotten what it is like (certain asexuals excepted).

What about you? Are you sex-positive?
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Tuesday, April 18, 2017

Clear Out Those Negative Thoughts

The harm of prejudiced bigotry against consanguinamorous relationships, like the bigotry against so many other expressions of love, affection, and identity, extends to being internalized by some of the people involved. Some struggle with their feelings, because they've been bombarded with irrational fears and disapproval, even before they have any understanding or thoughts about, or experiences with, such matters.

Practically, you see this when cousins or siblings or other closely related adults are conflicted about the love they have.

Although there is no good reason why adults who mutually agree to be together in some way should feel guilty, some still do, and that's a shame. In general, consanguinamory is not sick. It is usually beneficial for all involved, with most negative results being solely the result of external bigotries, sometimes enshrined in ridiculous laws.

It would help if people knew that they are not alone and that there is no good reason they shouldn't be free to be together and have their rights.

Our dear friend Jane has written some great material for anyone who is struggling. Although her blog is focused on consanguinamory, much of what she writes in this entry is applicable to anyone struggling to accept themselves or their relationships.

Because this is how I questioned myself in the early days of my relationship with my dad, it worked for me. Every now and then I’ve also helped others online by asking them these kinds of questions, and some people feel better just for having read this blog and others on the subject… I advocate it because IT WORKS.
I’d also recommend to anyone struggling, to join the community at Kindred Spirits. You can talk to other people who are going through the same things and that can help by giving you some extra perspective. You don’t have to be alone with these issues, we’re a friendly bunch and being in a mutually supportive environment helps a lot.
Go read it all!

The good news is that we're on the right side of history. Sooner or later, all adults will have their rights, including the rights to be together and to marry, if they want. We're striving to make it happen sooner rather than later, and there are ways you can help.
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Monday, April 17, 2017

Lies and Damned Lies About Polygamy

[Note: I am bumping up this previous entry because it is as relevant as ever. Polygamy is not something to escape from, fear, or prosecute. Abusive people are. Polygamy doesn't harm women, children, or teen boys, abusers do. The same goes for monogamy.]

Good ol’ tool of anti-equality forces, Professor Joe Henrich of the University of B.C., is back in the news. This article comes with a picture of Bountiful, B.C. (which is NOT the picture shown here) along with this text…

New research says that polygamy, which is practiced in Bountiful, B.C., leads to increased crime.

Right. Everyone avoids driving near Bountiful because of the high crime rate.

Prof. Joe Henrich found that when rich men take more than one wife, it leaves a deficit of women leading to increased fighting and competition for the remaining women.

Got that? You non-wealthy or unmarried guys are just a bunch of criminals.

Henrich is taking about women as though they have no minds of their own and are nothing but property, akin to cars.

Rich men can “take” more than one woman, marriage or not. Shall we ban all nonmonogamy? Or, since it might lower the crime rate according to this line of thinking, shall we require a woman to find an unmarried man and keep him busy so he won’t go around being a violent criminal?

"You have low-status men who are desperate for resources," said Henrich, a professor in the departments of psychology and economics. "More polygamy leads to a greater proportion of unmarried men, which leads to increased crime."

How does Henrich explain “low status” men who marry a woman and support her decision to not earn income as she tends to the children or earn less income than she and their children will spend? Wouldn’t it make sense, in Henrich’s view, for such men to never marry and have children, so as to be less “desperate for resources?”

Henrich and his co-authors studied societies where polygamy is prevalent, trying to discover the consequences.

Did they also conclude that polygamy causes high amounts of melanin?
"The scarcity of marriageable women in polygamous cultures increases competition among men for the remaining unmarried women," said Henrich. "The greater competition increases the likelihood men in polygamous communities will resort to criminal behaviour to gain resources and women."

I wonder why the article doesn’t cite examples?

I also wonder how much funding for this, or how much of Henrich’s pay, comes from the very government that has banned the polygamous freedom to marry and is actively attacking polygynous families?

We’ve already debunked all of this here, here, here, here, here, and here. We will need many more dung beetles to clear this pile up.

An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any and all consenting adults. These excuses to deny full marriage equality are flimsy masks that fail to hide festering bigotry.
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Sunday, April 16, 2017

Has Your Partner Experienced Consanguinamory?

I used be active at a certain Big Internet Portal's Question and Answer service, until someone who couldn’t handle me answering questions truthfully when it comes to certain romantic or sexual topics decided to get me "suspended" using a weakness in their automated system. After that, I'd still check to see what questions were being asked there, even though I couldn't participate in any way or even contact anyone there unless they had somehow provided an email address in their question or answer. I will not link to the service, but I will quote it. Someone named Lauren asked this question...

Ok.....complicated one, recently found out my husband and his younger sister had sex for a number of years between the ages of 10-12, this is what he's telling me tho I'm aware this may have more to it? We are a young couple married with two children (boys) my relationship with his family has never been great and this hasn't helped! Can anyone give me any advice or your thoughts on how you would deal with this news? I'm up and down and so confused.....

Questions like this come up more than people might think. Person A is dating or married to Person B and Person A suspects or has found out that Person B has been sexually involved with a sibling or other family member. Person A usually wants to know what they should do.

It is important to clarify the situation by determining the answers to some questions.

1) Is this something that is suspected or has it been confirmed?

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Friday, April 14, 2017

SPOILERS - Who is Rey? Star Wars Can Advance Marriage Equality

[This entry is being bumped up because Episode VIII is in post-production and it would be great if it could make a difference for equality.]


You know the drill. If you haven't seen "Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens" yet and don't want any of it spoiled, just skip over this entry.


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Thursday, April 13, 2017

Tuesday, April 11, 2017

Discussing Consanguinamory


Consanguinamorous relationships are often ignorantly dismissed as dysfunctional, sick, or abusive, and sometimes the "incest" discussions found at porn sites do little to dispel that impression. However, and Kindred Spirits forum, which is NOT a porn forum, the discussions are sincere and reflect how real, beautiful, and in many ways, "normal" consanguinamorous relationships can be.

For example, here's a woman describing her relationship that was initiated through reunion reunion Genetic Sexual Attraction...
For [us] the most important things are the respect that we have for each other and remembering to always listen. [He] is my best friend, my partner and my lover. We have often wondered if the reason the sex is so good was because of the brother/sister element. We decided that we just fit together perfectly for what ever reason. Being non judgemental of each others desires and taking time to learn about what we both need.
He walks in the door after work and we are both just happy to be in each others company again especially knowing that we would give almost everything up to protect what we have.
Why would anyone want to kill such love? Why should they have to hide? Why shouldn't they be free to be open about their love and, if they want, to marry? There's no good reason.

If you want to discuss consanguinamory (consensual incest), I know of no better forum than Kindred Spirits, which is free. But if you join, be sure to immediately read and follow all of the rules. If you are a Friend of Lily, it can be very helpful to join with others to discuss life in general, as well as the love you have or had.
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Monday, April 10, 2017

The Dynamics of Sibling Relationships

Are you in, or have you ever been had, a sexual or romantic relationship with a sibling? Are you aware of someone who is or has been?

Throughout history, all over the world, regardless of class or other demographics, siblings have done everything from engaged in childhood exploration to having lifelong spousal relationships with each other, but myths about these relationships persist. In a study in the 1970s, ten percent of anonymous college-aged respondents indicated that they had already had consensual sexual contact with a sibling. As they age and have more opportunities, the percentage of sibling who've had sexual contact can only rise. You know people who've been involved, whether you know it or not.

While many places have laws against siblings sharing sex and it is labeled in many places as a taboo, there is clearly a fascination with such relationships that is widespread. some media depictions, such as in the Game of Thrones television series, are very popular and considered by many to be tantalizing. Siblings have been getting together in our stories as long as we've been telling stories, whether those stories have been erotica or not.

What makes people siblings? Genetically, siblings are people who share at least one genetic parent. Sharing one makes them half-siblings. Sharing both would make them full siblings. People can also be siblings by affinity, such as stepsiblings, meaning that each has a parent who married each other, or they were adopted by one or both common parents, or even that that genetically unrelated embryos were donated to and implanted in the same woman. Socially, people can informally be siblings through longtime cohabitation during childhood, even though no formal adoption or marriage legally links them.

Genetic siblings are often, but not always, raised together. Full and half siblings can grow up separately due to age, parental breakups and custody agreements, cuckolding, gamete or embryo donation, adoption, even deportation. For example, a couple might have their first child together at 19 and their last child together at 39. Those children will be full blood siblings, but will be 20 years apart in age, and it could be that the elder sibling has moved away before the youngest is even born. Embryos donated to different parents can be full siblings, raised apart. There are many scenarios in which half siblings are raised apart.
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Siblings Day

It’s national Siblings Day, at least here in the US. 

In keeping with the interests of this blog, we want to celebrate all people who love their siblings, especially if that includes supporting your sibling as they face discrimination for their gender identity, their sexual or relationship orientations, or their relationships or sexuality. We also want to celebrate all siblings in consanguinamorous relationships. For many of them, there is no more important person in the world than their sibling(s).

So if you have a good sibling, let them know you appreciate them.
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Sunday, April 9, 2017

Sorting Out Relation

Sometimes people, especially young people, aren't certain of how to describe their relation to someone else. It doesn't help that legal relation isn't always the same as genetic (blood) relation.  People can legally be siblings, but not be close genetic relatives, for example. Or two people can be genetic siblings but not legal relatives. Relation by blood/genetics is referred to as consanguinity and relation by marriage or law is may be referred to as affinity.

Generally, the law recognizes that people are related through birth*, adoption, or marriage (or civil union or domestic partnership.)

I hope this provides clarity to people who are uncertain.

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Saturday, April 8, 2017

Documentary on Reunion GSA in Siblings

These GSA documentaries seem to pop up and then go away, so hopefully this one remains available again for at least a while.



There are comments on YouTube, and some are good.

Just in case the embedded video disappears (because Google seems to have a problem with their Blogger keeping their YouTube videos embedded), here's the link.
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Friday, April 7, 2017

Frequently Asked Question: Why Do Polyamorists Get Married?


The question is asked as though the person asking assumes that actual monogamy is a requirement for marriage. It isn’t in most places, even though current marriage laws will only allow monogamy in the legal sense.

For the purpose of this question and answer, I will include any form of honest nonmonogamy, or any label applied, such as open relationship, open marriage, swinging, swapping, polyamory, polyfidelity and polygamy.

Why do swingers get married?

Why do people in open relationships get married?

Why do polyamorous people get married?

The short answer is: For the same reason most other people get married. They want to get married, they think it is the best thing to do at that time in life, or they’re pressured.

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Thursday, April 6, 2017

When Middle-Aged Siblings Get Together

[Bumping this up,]

Some people find this blog from doing a search. Today's interesting search phrase is...
Causes of middle age sibling incest
I'm assuming this is about sex, which is consensual, rather than assault.

I've largely explained the "causes" in this posting, which was about a father and adult daughter.

I have no way of knowing if the person doing the search is such a lover, has a partner who is involved, is a family member or friend, or someone else.

What I do know is that sex between siblings is common enough that everyone knows someone who is, or has been involved.

Since the previous posting I linked was about an adult and their parent, I'll add a few comments here specifically dealing with siblings.

For some middle-aged siblings, the origin of their sexual interaction goes back to having sexual contact as teenagers, which could have stopped for many reasons, including someone else intervening and stopping it, fear of persecution, the siblings finding other partners, going their separate ways for education and employment, and other reasons. Others have their first sexual contact with each other as middle-aged adults.

Having sex with each other in middle age, whether it is new or a resuming of past experiences, could be prompted by a variety of factors. Whether bored or dissatisfied in their relationships with others (and looking for a "safe" person to cheat with); looking to traverse what is, for them, new sexual territory whether they are single or in an open relationship; nostalgic for the past; looking for a "safe" partner who loves them after a breakup or divorce; brought into each other's presence and comforting each other after the death of a parent (or sibling or friend); one caring for the other through recovery from an injury or illness; just plain ol' curiosity or horniness combined with availability. Sometimes it is the first time the siblings have really been in each other's lives at all, and they feel a powerful attraction.

What causes these relationships isn't as important as respecting adults and their relationship and sexual rights. If they aren't cheating by sneaking behind a partner's back, violating an existing agreement, then siblings loving each other this way, especially as middle-aged adults, shouldn't be a matter for law enforcement nor finger-waggers. They are people who at least somewhat share a background, and are likely close in age, and the love each other. Be happy for them!

See:

Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory

Interviews with Siblings in Sexual Relationships
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