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Thursday, June 22, 2017

Consanguinamory is Not Sick

As this blog and others have repeatedly shown, there is no good reason to keep laws, discrimination, or stigmas against consanguinamory (consanguineous or consensual incest sex or relationships) that is consistently applied to other relationships. One of the grasping-at-straws assertions that one might make when all of their justifications for denying rights fails is "people who do that are sick" or "those relationships are dysfunctional."

Before we do anything else, let's make it clear that we're talking about consensual sex and relationships, not abuse. It's not fair to point to abuse, assault, child molestation, etc. by a close relative as an example of how "incest" is "sick".

Alleging psychological problems or mental illness is something best left to mental health professionals, such as a psychiatrist (a medical doctor) or a psychologist. The opinion of someone without such credentials and some experience should be suspect. So, if someone makes the claim that we should criminalize or otherwise discriminate against consanguinamory because the behavior is based on mental illness, they should be asked 1) for their credentials; 2) if they have personally conducted an evaluation of the individuals involved and the dynamics of their relationship, and; 3) if all relationships they personally think are based on mental illness should be likewise criminalized or discriminated against. Usually, calling consanguinamory "sick" is just a thinly veiled variation on Discredited Arguments #1 and 3.

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Wednesday, June 21, 2017

Still No Good Argument Against Equality

Anti-equality columnist Michael Brown, who constantly bemoans things like anyone who isn't a cisgender heterosexual nonconsanguineous monogamist having their rights, is on a roll lately. Today's column was sparked by a male triad getting legal recognition in Columbia, with Brown lamenting that we're heading toward full marriage equality. What he doesn't do is explain why he thinks that's a bad thing. Maybe we have to buy one of his books to read that? In fairness, nobody else seems to be able to explain why people should be denied their rights, either.
Here in the States, the Associated Press notes that, “More courts [are] allowing 3 parents of 1 child.” An example would be when a lesbian couple has a child with the help of another man, all three of whom become parents.
What's the realistic alternative? It's preventing the man from being legally involved. How exactly would that be good? If three people want to take responsibility for a child and they mutually agree to this, isn't that a good thing?
Today, in New York City, you can be fined up to $250,000 for failing to accept the stated identity of a trans employee.
Again, what's the realistic alternative? It's that someone either has to quit their job or deal with a boss who mistreats them in a very serious way.
I asked [the students] if they believed in the concepts of “love is love” and “I have the right to marry the one I love.” They all said yes, no matter how far it went. Three people? Four? Two adult brothers? And should the government be obligated to recognize all these relationships?

They answered in the affirmative to all my questions...
Good for them! The students have compassion and respect for people! Those of us on the right side of history are happy to see more people being free to have the relationships to which they mutually agree and to live out their gender identity.

If you're not doing so already, please check out this blog's sister Tumblr, where questions are being asked and getting answered, and I share content from others that I don't crosspost here. Add it to your bookmarks or, if you're on Tumblr, follow it.
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Monday, June 19, 2017

The Spice of Life

Monogamy isn't for everyone, and very few people only marry and have sex with one person throughout their entire life. If monogamy or serial monogamy is what works for you, we fully support that and support your rights to be monogamous.

In return, we hope you support the rights of others to be ethically nonmonogamous, especially since it is what is best for some and some are polyamorous as who they are.

Your personal feelings, boundaries, or convictions may preclude any form of ethical nonmonogamy for you, but that doesn't you need to put down others who are different. Thankfully, most of you don't. There really isn't any good reason that people who are nonmonogamous should be discriminated against.

We take a live and let live attitude around here, supporting everyone who just want to be themselves and have their relationships and to avoid trouble.

Whether someone is engaging in casual sex, swinging, swapping, threesomes, moresomes, hotwifing, cuckolding, an open relationship or open marriage, relationship anarchy, polyamory, polyfidelity, group marriage, plural marriage, or some other form of polygamy, as long as everyone involved is a consenting adult, that should be their business and shouldn't subject them to discrimination or bullying or prosecution. Same goes for some asexuals and aromantics who don't want sex or don't want romantic relationships. Let people do their thing!

Please feel free to comment with your thoughts and experiences regarding any form of ethical nonmonogamy, or write to fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com.
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Saturday, June 17, 2017

Happy Father's Day

Sunday is Father's Day.

For all men raising or helping to raise a child, whether you are a biological father, presumed father, grandfather, stepfather, bonus father, adoptive father, foster father or any variation… Happy Father’s Day!

A special thanks to fathers who have supported and loved their children who are LGBTQ, polyamorous, consanguinamorous, or have otherwise faced persecution or oppression because of who they are or the person(s) they love.

Finally, a note of encouragement to all fathers who can’t legally marry the person(s) they love, but would if they could, or who face bullying due to love or who they are: We will win so that every adult can pursue love, sex, and marriage with any consenting adults.

Oh, and if you have an especially interesting Father's Day, tell us about it.
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Friday, June 16, 2017

New to This Blog or Looking to Find Out More?

We support the rights of an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any other union offered by law), and any of those things without the others, with any and all consenting adults, without fear of prosecution, bullying, or discrimination. These are basic human rights and it shouldn't matter who is disgusted by the relationships of other adults or who doesn't understand why the adults would want to be together.

If you're viewing the desktop/laptop version, you'll see that over there in the column on the right you can find ways to connect and to follow this blog, and at the top of the page are tabs with drop-downs of some important pages, entries, and links. If you're viewing a mobile version, many of the links are below.

You are welcomed and affirmed here regardless of your gender, sexuality, or relationship diversities, and whether you are looking for more information, are in the closet or out about your gender, sexual orientation, or relationship, or want to be an ally. Are you here because of polyamory or polygamy? Perhaps you're here because this blog covers Genetic Sexual Attraction or consanguinamory (consensual incest) or because you think or know your partner has been involved? Do you need help? Whether you're a family member or friend who is looking for more information, or a journalist, or are someone who is looking to help the cause, we hope you are helped by what is here.

There's an About This Blog page, and you can read about the triad who originally inspired this blog.

There's a Glossary so that you can become familiar with terms frequently used here.

We explain why we need solidarity in supporting full marriage equality and we debunk all the arguments that you'll ever hear made against equality, so if you're against equal rights, please carefully read through that page.

On the Case Studies page we feature interviews with people who have been denied their rights, so you can "meet" people who are, or have been, in consensual loving relationships who have are harmed by the lack of equality under the law.

This blog is a labor of love. There's no advertising and we don't accept monetary contributions. Want to help? Spread the word. If you are a lawyer, attorney, or someone who works with a legal group or law firm, we'd like to hear from you if you are supportive. Also, this blog DOES accept content submissions (Keith can be contacted at... fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com), but makes no offer, implicit nor explicit, of compensation nor guarantees that it will be used. If you want to tell your story, that would be very helpful to others!

Tell us what you think by commenting or by contacting us.

Join our Facebook group "I Support Full Marriage Equality."

Keith wants to be friends with all who support full marriage equality and relationship rights for all adults. Be Facebook friends with Keith.

Follow the Twitter account for this blog.

Follow the Tumblr blog for Full Marriage Equality

The Final Manifesto is another excellent blog.

If you don't want to connect, still feel free to send Keith a note at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com

Myths about Genetic Sexual Attraction
Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory
Bad Reasons to Deny Love
Ten Reasons Why Consensual Incest is Wrong (Sarcastic) 



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Thursday, June 15, 2017

Living Consanguinamorously - What To Tell The Children


A question many people in consanguinamorous relationships have is
if, what, when, and how to tell their children about their relationship.


There is no one right answer because it depends on many different factors.

It will be great when we get to a point where it doesn’t even have to be a question, but since most consanguineous lovers are still living in places where such relationships face severe discrimination, often including imprisonment, it is a question some people have.

Most people in consanguinamorous relationships have children, whether they have those children together or by some other relationship or through adoption or third party reproduction, because most people in general have children, so this is an issue faced by many people.

Let’s consider some of the factors involved.

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Wednesday, June 14, 2017

Ten Reasons Why Consensual Incest Is Wrong

1) Some people get abused by relatives. That makes consensual incest wrong the same way abuse/assault by non-relatives makes sex in general wrong.

2) Many people are disgusted by the idea. If something disgusts many people, it must be wrong for everybody! People are so disgusted by the possibility of having sex with a close relative that they always get DNA tests before having sex with anyone, to just be sure they aren’t having sex with a relative.

3) It increases the risks of birth defects, and anything that does that is wrong and shouldn’t be allowed, just like we don’t allow pre-menopausal women over the age of 35 to have sex, and we don’t let anybody with obvious, serious inheritable diseases have sex. Yup, this is why it is wrong for two half-brothers to fall in love, or why stepsiblings who didn’t even meet until they were teenagers shouldn’t be together. They might make a mutant baby!

4) It’s illegal in some places, and something being illegal always makes it wrong. You know, like harboring runaway slaves? That’s why having sex with your first cousin is wrong in Texas but just fine in almost every other US state, half of which legally marry first cousins, and why consensual incest between closer family members isn’t wrong in Rhode Island, which has no laws against consensual adult incest.

5) It’s not natural, and people should only be allowed natural things, like bicycles, smart phones, and iPads. OK, maybe it is natural in some species. But we shouldn’t lower ourselves to the behavior of other animals, who make wars and pollute the planet.

6) Someone’s religion is against it. And if someone’s religion is against it, nobody else should be able to do it. You’ll never find examples of acceptable consensual incest in the Bible.

7) There are so many people you’re not closely related to. That makes consensual incest (consanguinamory) wrong, just like there being plenty of people in your own race makes interracial relationships wrong.

8) Only rural poor people would ever do such a thing, not royals or educated people. And anything done by rural poor people is wrong.

9)There is often a power differential in consensual incestuous relationships, and relationships with power differentials are just wrong. That’s why no President of the United States, Senator, Governor, judge, district attorney, or police chief has ever been married, and we bar wealthy or intelligent people from marrying someone who isn’t as wealthy or intelligent as them. Yes, power differentials are exactly why half siblings close in age, even if they didn’t meet until they were adults, shouldn’t be allowed to be together.

10) It messes up family structures and dynamics. That’s why every family’s dynamics are always required to be evaluated and corrected by outsiders, and people are never allowed to break up if a breakup will mess up the dynamics of the family. And people are never allowed to work with family members, as that could cause conflicts or too much reliance on family. Yes, messing up a family dynamic is why genetic relatives who were raised by different families should never be allowed to be together.

Yup, we need to let all of those people who’ve found that a close relative makes the best life partner for them, or perhaps just a trustworthy sexual partner, know what they are doing is wrong and they should stop, and go settle for someone else, who I’m sure will be just fine being the B-list choice for someone who’d rather be with the person they see when the family gets together. People need to make sure they aren’t doing anything that makes anyone who’s not involved uncomfortable. That needs to come before their happiness.

This bit of sarcasm is brought to you by someone who supports the rights of ALL consenting adults to their relationships with any and all consenting adults.
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Tuesday, June 13, 2017

Decriminalizing Genetic Sexual Attraction

This is necessarily a long essay, and I apologize, but I’ve heard so many arguments before that I want to deal with them preemptively.

In many places, certain acts of affection between close genetic relatives are still a crime, regardless of all involved being consenting adults, regardless of their backgrounds. This includes when the adults have experienced Genetic Sexual Attraction (GSA).

The fact is there are people who are happy together, in every way, who were brought together through GSA. The main problem in the relationship is the discrimination, often codified in laws that include the possibility of criminal prosecution, against their relationship. There are other people who are experiencing GSA who, for any number of reasons, do not want their relationship to become sexual, or remain sexual if it has already become sexual. Both of these groups, and the other people who love them and depend on them, would benefit from decriminalization.

The first group would be free to live their lives.

The second group would be more able find effective help and support.

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Monday, June 12, 2017

Secure Together

Kindred Spirits forum continues to be a great place for consanguinamorous people and allies to connect, and to read about the experiences and emotions of people in these relationships. With permission, I'm quoting some statements from one woman who is at the forum.

From her introductory message...
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Friday, June 9, 2017

Frequently Asked Question: How Common is Incest?

The short answer: Nobody knows for sure, but it appears to be common enough that you know someone who has been involved, whether you know it or not. If you have been, are, or want to be involved, you are not alone and it doesn’t make you bad or sick. You’re in the company of royals and peasants, urban dwellers and rural folk, the wealthy and the poor throughout history. Regardless, rights are not reserved for the majority.

This answer is addressing consensual incest, in which I include, in addition to adults, minors who four years or less apart in age when force or coercion are not used. This is what I call “consanguinamory” or consanguineous sex. This answer is not about child molestation, sexual assault, or rape.

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Thursday, June 8, 2017

Polyamory is Not Synonymous With Promiscuity

Polyamorists are diverse. About the only thing all polyamorous people have in common is that they are 1) people and 2) polyamorous. There are polyamorous people everywhere, and there always have been. Some tend to conform to the larger culture around them and seem as "average" as can be, some are countercultural. Polyamorists vary in sexual orientations, philosophies, faith traditions, political affiliations, lifestyles, and just about every way humans can be diverse.

They are also diverse in how they live out polyamory, which is why "polyamory" is definitely not synonymous with "promiscuity" if promiscuity is defined as "the practice of having casual sex frequently with different partners or being indiscriminate in the choice of sexual partners."

Some polyamorists never engage in casual sex and are very particular about their choice of sexual partners, and some will have fewer sexual partners over the course of their life than many people who identify as monogamous. Yes, there are some polyamorists who are promiscuous, but promiscuous polyamorists aren't the only people who are promiscuous.

None of this is to intended to be negative towards casual sex or promiscuity. just to clarify that polyamory and promiscuity are not the same thing. Someone can have two lifelong partners they didn't have sex with until well into their relationship and be polyamorous. And just because someone enjoys some casual sex with a few different people doesn't mean, necessarily, that they are polyamorous.

One of the beautiful things about letting consenting adults negotiate their own encounters and relationships without laws or other forms of discrimination interfering is that you can have things the way you feel is best and your neighbor can have completely different relationships, and you and your lovers can all have what you need. This is yet another reason to support full marriage equality and relationship rights for all.
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Wednesday, June 7, 2017

Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory

I’ve noticed some common myths expressed about sibling consanguinamory. In this instance, by consanguinamory, I mean everything from curious exploration and experimenting to erotic romance, including masturbating in front of each other, erotic kissing, sexual touching or rubbing, oral sex, intercourse, etc.

This entry is NOT addressing molestation, assault, or abuse.

I’m referring to adult siblings, or minor siblings who are close in age, engaging in mutual affection or experimentation, without coercion, force, or intimidation. It may be two siblings alone, it may be three or more siblings, or it may be two or more siblings involved together with one or more people outside of the immediate family.

These myths need to be addressed, because they perpetuate inequality, discrimination, hardship, confusion, stigmas, ignorance, and fear.

Myth #1 “It doesn’t happen” or “It happens very rarely” or “I don’t know anyone who has done this.” Just because one person hasn’t been involved or doesn’t remember being involved with sibling doesn’t mean it isn’t happening with others. It is, and it always has. Ongoing sexual relationships between siblings are common enough that everyone knows someone who is, or has been in, such a relationship, and far more siblings than that have had an encounter or experimented, explored, or played doctor. Reality: We all know people who've been involved, whether we know it or not.
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Tuesday, June 6, 2017

Very Important Consanguinamory Study Results

Consanguinamory is not studied nearly enough by sociologists, in part because of prejudice.

However, Jane has published fascinating results from a study. Hopefully, this will be just the start of more extensive research.

Go see the results.
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Monday, June 5, 2017

It's Natural

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, but are usually closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are, by law, denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law.

The woman interviewed below should be free to decide whether or not to legallmarry her partner, yet they could be harassed, persecuted, and imprisoned if they were open about their love. They are consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone; why should they be denied their rights? In much of the world, including all but a couple of US states, they could be criminally prosecuted for their love.
Read the interview below and see for yourself what she has to say. You may think this relationship with her son is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it incredibly sexy, but whatever your reaction, should these lovers be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights?

*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: You recently moved from New Jersey to Germany. Why is that?

Shiffon: For work as well as personal reasons. Someone came to know about our relationship and before that person could cause trouble, we made the move. It was already in planning but that caused me to prepone. No one knows about us here, so we are living as a couple.


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Saturday, June 3, 2017

Not Too Close For Comfort

A comment came in on our popular entry "Aunts and Nephews"...
I'm currently in an active sexual relationship with my nephew. We aren't blood or marriage related. His mom and I are best friends and I helped raise him. The last time I saw him he was 11, we reunited now that he's 18 approaching 19. I'm 34. The attraction was instant and mutual. I feel like I am betraying my friend however, the amount of enjoyment and satisfaction I get from this guy is worth the risk. I think she suspects we're intimate but there's no proof. Her boyfriend is quite jealous that I don't look in his direction and tried to out nephew and I... Good luck, we both deny until we die! I don't want to stop, and neither does he. Any thoughts?
It's time to write a long-overdue essay on "fauxcest" or "nearcest" of whatever else this can be called. So that's below. But first, let's answer the questions raised Anonymous.

1) You two are consenting adults. You should be free to have this relationship. There's nothing wrong with having this relationship.

2) "I feel like I am betraying my friend..." This is not a rational reaction. It is a feeling that is based in prejudices and faulty reasoning. Your "nephew" would certainly be sexually active with someone, whether his mother is comfortable with that thought or not. Why is it is a bad thing that is with someone who already knows and cares about him? Sex isn't a bad thing, unless you are doing it wrong.

Someone might say to you "He's young enough to be your son" or to him "She's old enough to be your mother." But so what? Someone might go a step further and say he must be harboring a secret desire for his mother and you for your son (if you have one). That may or may not be true, but even if true, neither of you would find any scolding from us. It is very common for people to find someone who is like one of their parents or siblings, for example.

There's a chance your relationship will be outed (some of this advice might be helpful). And, it is likely that if that happens, your friend will be very upset with you. She might try to attribute her anger to the secrecy, but that would most likely just be an excuse. Neither of you is under any obligation to tell her the details of your sex life. If she finds out and is angry, give her time to cool off. You can tell her you understand her feelings without denying your entitlement to your love life. Many parents get upset at the thought of their child (even though their child is an adult) having sex. Some people get upset that someone they know is having sex  with someone to whom they're related. Neither reaction is based on logic, but rather things like aversion to change, feeling old, and even envy.

After she cools  off, she might realize that it can be a better thing that her son is with someone who has already known and cared for him. Some of this applies.


Enjoy what you have. There's no reason you shouldn't. Goodness knows there are many people out there who are miserable in a relationship or lonely. Why deprive anyone, especially yourself, of happiness?
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Thursday, June 1, 2017

Feminism and Full Marriage Equality


I'm bumping up this older entry because it still applies.

From comments on this blog:

Macha wrote about those who say an adult woman can’t consent to sex with her biological father…

I think this is partly rooted in the prejudiced and false belief that women (especially young women) don't want and aren't interested in sex, so if a younger woman is in a sexual relationship with an older man, she must have been coerced, ergo the man is just an abuser. Our society doesn't want women to have the power to consent. We perpetually deny the possibility that women have the ability to make conscious and deliberate choices about their sex lives, infantilizing them from womb to tomb.

Liz, who has a spousal relationship with her brother and a beautiful, healthy baby girl with him wrote about those who don’t want her to have that freedom…

There are no good arguments against incest, just the same old excuses over and over again. We need to make people realize that while they may not love family in that way, there are many adults that do and those people should be allowed to live and love the way they want to.

Full marriage equality is inseparable from feminism.

That a woman should be free to make her own decisions about her body and her associations is reinforced in full marriage equality.

With full marriage equality, a woman is free to live with, date, love, marry, and divorce any consenting adults she chooses.

This includes, among other things:

Her freedom to marry another woman.

Her freedom to marry more than one woman.

Her freedom to marry a woman who is already married.

Her freedom to marry a woman or women to whom she is closely related.

Her freedom to marry a man who is already married.

Her freedom to marry more than one man.

Her freedom to marry a man or men to whom she is closely related.

And, if she wants, her freedom to marry one unmarried man to whom she is not closely related.

A woman should have her choice, and not have those who aren’t a party to the marriage or relationship deny her her choices. These are the same freedoms a man should be able to pursue, because full marriage equality is about gender equality, not about denying or controlling women, their bodies, and their sexuality. Full marriage equality allows people to have the relationships they choose, and as such, does not hurt anyone.
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Wednesday, May 31, 2017

Frequently Asked Question: Can Siblings Marry?


The following is based on my understanding. I’m not at attorney and this should not be considered legal advice.

Can siblings marry?

I’m not aware of any government that will currently marry full-blood siblings or recognize a marriage of full-blood siblings; rather, if it was discovered by the authorities after an official marriage was formed that the spouses were, in fact, siblings, the marriage would be dissolved and considered invalid. If the spouses knew they were siblings when they married, they would be subject to prosecution. If they discovered the genetic relationship after getting married, they would have to file for an annulment or dissolution or risk prosecution.

Where sibling consanguinamory isn’t still banned by law, siblings can have a wedding ceremony and live the married life, although under discrimination, as their government will not recognize their marriage and they will not get treated equally.

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Tuesday, May 30, 2017

The Simple Test

Ginny pondered “slippery slope” concepts, and explained why having the same-gender freedom to marry and the polyamorous or polygamous freedom to marry does not justify things like marrying children.
Consent is the watchword of modern sexual ethics. It’s the difference between BDSM and abuse. It’s the difference between polyamory and cheating. It’s the difference between rape and… sex. Anything two (or more) able, informed adults give consent to in private is generally considered okay.

It’s simple enough, but some people want to make it more complicated than that.
“That’s not natural” really just means “That makes me uncomfortable.” And I hope we can all agree that an individual’s sense of comfort or discomfort makes for a really lousy moral guide.

Besides, good arguments can be made that polygamy is natural. Discomfort is definitely not a good guide for law or morality. Heart surgery is uncomfortable and looks disgusting to many people, but it can be a very good thing. Sticking up for civil rights can bring a whole lot of discomfort, but it is the right thing to do.
Someone might say, “But that goes against my religious code!” Fine, then don’t do that, and encourage your religious brethren not to do it either. But that has nothing to do with whether a thing should be legal or acceptable in the culture outside your religion.

Couldn’t have written a better answer to Discredited Argument #4 myself.
We hold very highly the rights of heterosexual people to live, love, and create families as they see fit. In time, I hope that consenting adults of any number and gender are given the same level of respect.
We've made some progress. Let’s make it happen!
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Monday, May 29, 2017

Accept that Others Should Have Their Rights

There seems to be a scale of prejudice when it comes to consanguinamory. The most vilified relationships are those between adults and their parent(s). A question about this came up on this blog's sister Tumblr.
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Sunday, May 28, 2017

Memorial Day Holiday

It is Memorial Day Weekend in the USA. Monday is a day that fallen military personnel are honored and remembered.

Some of our fallen were LGBT, some were poly. Some were consanguinamorous. Until somewhat recently, none of them could be open about who they were or who they loved without dire consequences; only some of our LGBT military personnel have been able to come out thanks to the end of DADT. Yet along with the rest of their military brothers and sisters, they fought for freedom.

So please let freedom ring.

Someone should be able to serve no matter their sexual orientation or their relationships with consenting adults. And they should be able to have their marriages legalized, and certainly not punished for their relationship.
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Saturday, May 27, 2017

The Invisible Asterisk

Sometimes, when someone writes (or says) that they support the freedom to marry or, marriage equality, or #Marriage4All, #LoveMustWin,  or “love is love” or something like “The sex lives of consenting adults is nobody else’s business.,” there is an invisible asterisk. You know, one of these: *

What might really be going on is this…

“Consenting adults should be free to marry each other.”*








*Unless you mean something I don’t like or think is disgusting, like polygamy, open marriage, or consensual adult incest.



I don’t do that. There is no asterisk in this statement…

I support the rights of an adult to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any and all consenting adults, without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

There is no asterisk after “adult.” An “adult” includes any person, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion.

“Any and all” means “any and all”. If an adult woman can vote, be Secretary of State (or Prime Minister, which we don't have in the US), serve as a Governor, be a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, sign contracts, enlist in the military, operate heavy machinery, be sentenced to life in prison or the death penalty (which we do have in many places in the US), and can consent to group sex with three cage fighters she just met, it seems to me an adult woman should also be free to have sex with and/or marry any consenting adult(s), even if that means another woman, or two women, or two men, or a woman and a man, or a married man (not hidden from his existing spouse), or her sister, whether an adopted sister, stepsister, half sister, or full blood sister. All of this goes for men, too, of course.

This basic right means all adults having the same right to not marry at all, and to divorce, and to be free of domestic violence. The basic freedom of association should mean that adults can share the entirety of love, sex, residence, and marriaqe, or any of those without the others, and any civil union or domestic partnership that is offered. That’s a funny thing called… equality. There is no good reason to deny equality. Now is the time to get it done.
So, do you support full marriage equality, or marriage “equality”*?
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Friday, May 26, 2017

How Consanguineous Lovers Can Avoid Trouble


Believe it or not, there are still criminal laws in many places criminalizing consensual sex between adults, and there are still police officers who will investigate people for this "crime," still prosecutors who will take the case before a court, and still judges and jurors who will convict people and sentence them to prison. There are still social workers who will take children away from good parents because those parents love other adults.

It doesn't matter to them how loving the relationships are. It doesn't matter if they love each other more than they could love others, it doesn't matter if the lovers didn't even meet each other until they were adults. It apparently doesn't matter to the people interfering that every dollar or minute they spend trying to stop consenting adults from loving each other is a dollar or minute that could instead go into protecting people, especially children, against predators.

In addition to this persecution of consanguinamorous people, there aren't any protections against other forms of discrimination against the consanguinamorous, such as employment discrimination. There are still many states that don't have protections for LGBT people, either, and polyamorous people are even less protected than monogamous LGBT people.

I sometimes forget that people don’t follow the news and law as closely as I do for this blog, so they may be unaware of these things. So I want to share with you what I've learned.

First, note the disclaimer that there is an ever-present at the bottom of this blog. I'll mostly repeat it here:

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Thursday, May 25, 2017

Genetic Sexual Attraction, Incest, and Consanguinamory


To act, or not to act, that is the question.

As always, I am talking about consensual sex, not molestation, assault, or rape.

Close relatives may experience mutual attraction as a result of Genetic Sexual Attraction (GSA), Genetic Attraction, Familial Sexual Attraction, or some other experience or phenomenon. I’m addressing these together because they all involve close relatives. These things can lead to incest (consanguineous sex, or consanguinamory) in the form of sibling sex, parent-adult child sex, cousin sex, etc. It may also lead to marriage or spousal relationships. While all sexual activity related to these can be called consanguineous, reuniuon GSA-initiated consanguinamory is a special subset and it should be noted that opinions of those who have been in such relationships towards non-reunion consanguinamory range from support to indifference to uneasiness to condemnation.

Speaking of GSA, there is a split in the GSA community about whether to act or not (or to stop acting). Many people who have experienced GSA, prior to having the experience, had never considered the possibility of being attracted to a close relative and may have thought the idea disgusting, but they found themselves attracted to a close biological relative anyway. Those in the GSA community against acting or continuing to act have various motivations; a bad personal experience acting on GSA, a priority of obedience to laws (even if unjust), their personal sexual mores, and perhaps for some, intense emotion about something they never had or can no longer have. They may very well think they are sparing others pain by urging them not to act. But others say the pain for them was in delaying the reality that they had been reunited with someone who was now their true love.

I deal with common arguments against the rights to share love, sex, residence, and marriage on this page. But just because one should have the right to share these things with a relative doesn’t mean they should share these things in any given case. That is the point of why I am writing this.

ALL romantic or sexual relationships are emotionally risky. Most do not work out, or most of us would still be in our first one. As with any relationship, you should be the one making that decision for you, not anybody else. Don't let others decide for you. There are trade-offs and emotional risks in any relationship. With a possible consanguinamorous relationship, there are generally pros and cons, and with GSA, there is likely to be pain and struggle no matter what course is taken. Ultimately, each situation can have different factors than others, but there are some general considerations I will address.

If there is mutual attraction, and that is a big if, there are many things that should be considered before becoming more physically intimate. Notice that to one extent or another, these apply to relationships with nonrelatives as well.

First, the cautionary considerations…

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Wednesday, May 24, 2017

Health and Solidarity

On our Tumblr, I answered questions about health and solidarity when it comes to consanguinamory and civil rights.
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Sunday, May 21, 2017

Sibling Rivalry or Sibling Revelry

I used to be active on a certain Big Online Portal's question-and-answer feature, answering questions related to full marriage equality and relationship rights for all adults, and occasionally questions about teenager sexuality. I still read what goes on there. Every once in a while, someone will ask a question like this...
I caught my siblings making out, what should i do?
I caught my 16 year old sister and 17 year old brother making out, I don't really know what to do. To be honest I'm very shocked, and a bit disoriented thinking about it. They're both pretty attractive, I don't see why they would shack up with each other when they could go out and get people who... aren't related to them.

I want to tell ma and pa, but they begged me not to, don't really know how to approach this situation, Or if I should just respect their privacy. I guess I'm just worried about their mental health, but I guess that's pretty unfair of me to assume something is wrong with them.

What do i do?
For all we know, the teens "making out" with each other are both half-siblings to the asker, and unrelated to each other, or they could be stepsiblings or adopted siblings. Or, they could be half or full-blood siblings to each other. (It might have even been a Genetic Sexual Attraction situation if the siblings have not been raised together.) Whatever their genetic, legal, and social relation, it isn't uncommon for siblings as close in age as they are, especially in their teens, to have such affection between them.

Also, we don't know where they live, and thus whether or not they live somewhere where it is legal for a 17-year-old and 16-year-old to have sex with each other.

Most therapists consider such sibling behavior, absent any coercion, force, or intimidation, to be mutual experimentation or exploration.

In general, however, my advice to someone in the asker's position is to:

1. Confirm this is a voluntary activity. If observing wasn't enough, ask the younger/smaller/less assertive/more needy sibling if they are being pressured, intimidated, coerced, or forced in any way.

2. Respect their privacy. Start by reminding them it's a good idea to be discreet and promise you will knock.

3. Protect and support them.

4. If needed, assist them in accessing contraception and health care.

(See this extensive advice at The Final Manifesto for friends and family of consanguinamorous siblings.)
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Saturday, May 20, 2017

Throuple Appears on Talk Show

A throuple has been appearing in the media to discuss their family and a pregnancy. The video should be below, but it in case it isn't, it is at this link.


Families like this should be free to be together, and to have all of the adults legally married, if they is what they want, and they should be protected from discrimination. There is no reason this polyamorous family should be denied their rights. Congrats to them on their love and family!
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Friday, May 19, 2017

Thursday, May 18, 2017

Is Being Poly Genetic?


The Ferrett addresses, “Polyamory Genetic? Is Homosexuality Genetic?”

My thoughts on a genetic polyamory link are the exact same as my thoughts on a genetic homosexual link:

I don’t care.

Right! We have many things, including the technology I’m using to write this and you are using to read this, which are not part of our genetics. What difference does it make? See Discredited Argument #5.

Even if the gays were, as some suggest, all conspiring in one big plot to annoy us fine-thinking straight people, wincing as they sucked distasteful d--- and reluctantly chowed p---y out of some misplaced form of rebellion, it should still be allowed.

The truth is, gay sex is between consenting adults, and it hurts no one but those adults – there are way more deadly car accidents caused by beers than queers. You may consider gayness to be a bad choice, but two people should be free to make bad choices together. And what people want to do for fun in their private life is something that should be allowed, no matter how distasteful it may be to me.

Agreed. See Discredited Argument #1.

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Wednesday, May 17, 2017

Tale as Old as Time

This blog is about relationship rights for all adults, especially the right to marry any and all consenting adults. It is not about criticizing nor promoting any philosophy towards religion, spiritual considerations, superstitions, the paranormal or supernatural, any religious text or writings/traditions/beliefs/practices/systems/organizations considered sacred, inspired, of authoritative by some, nor skepticism when it comes to such things.

There are both allies and opponents of relationship rights and full marriage equality in just about every religion and among those who claim no religion, and I welcome allies no matter what tradition, if any, they prefer or reject.

With that out of the way…

Considering the Bible as literature, which anyone can do whether they are a devout Christian, a Deist, a Hindu, an Atheist, or an Antitheist or take some other path, one can see that the Bible implies, outright portrays, and further addresses consanguineous sex.

Frequently, someone will ask “Where did Cain get his wife?” or “Did Adam and Eve’s children have sex with each other?” or some variation. Whether someone considers this speculation about fanciful myths or actual history is irrelevant to analyzing what the text itself says.

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Tuesday, May 16, 2017

Frequently Asked Question: Why Is Incest Illegal?


It shouldn’t be illegal anywhere, as you’ll see. As always, we note that we are talking about consensual incest, such as between consenting adults and between minors close in age. We are not talking about anything involving coercion or force or molestation. There are laws against rape, assault, and molestation, and they should remain. We are talking about consensual incest, consanguineous sex and marriage, and consanguinamory, whether initiated through Genetic Sexual Attraction or not.

Short answer: It isn’t illegal everywhere, but where it is, it is the lingering result of sex-police holdovers, superstition, prejudice, and legislative inertia.

Long answer:

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Monday, May 15, 2017

Cautious Consanguinamory


So, someone you already love wants to love you more, and you want to love them more; you’re mutually attracted. And you’ve considered the pros and cons and have decided to go for it. You want to add sexual affection to your relationship.

But you feel a need to go slowly.


You could be nervous and very cautious because it is new, because such experiences are an unknown to you, or because you’ve internalized cultural prejudices.
How do you move forward with care?
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Saturday, May 13, 2017

A Guy Who Is Like Dear Brother

More research shows again that many women look for partners who are like their brothers.
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Mother's Day


Happy Mother's Day Weekend to all mothers out there, especially mothers who face discrimination, persecution, and even prosecution for loving one or more other adults, and the mothers who've stood by their children who've faced bigotry for being who they are and loving who they do.

We're making progress. Hang in there and continue to care for your loved ones.

If you have plans for an interesting Mother's Day or end up having an interesting Mother's Day and you think our readers will want to hear about it, do tell! Sons and daughters.... any special plans?

I include those who've "adopted" mother figures, especially if you've done so because your own mother is no longer with us or was not a supportive person. Almost all of us have a mother in our life, even if that mother isn't officially family.
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Wednesday, May 10, 2017

Now is the Time - Solidarity is Best


This piece coincided with something I had meant to write. It is about solidarity.

This blog, and the related Facebook page, calls for relationship rights for all adults, including full marriage equality. When we say that an adult should be free to marry any and all consenting adults, we actually mean it. We have not hidden that.

I've had more than one polyamorous person think that this is great... when they realize it means I support the polygamous (or polyamorous) freedom to marry... then react negatively when they realize it means I support the consanguineous freedom to marry.

Yes, I do. I support the right of an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, to marry any and all consenting adults. So yes, I support the right of a white woman to marry a man of African ancestry, or 30-year-old man to marry a 60-year-old woman, or a man to marry a man, or a woman to marry two men, or a woman to marry the half-brother she first met when they were both adults. None of these marriages hurt anyone else. None of these marriages hurt anyone, at least not in and of themselves. There are people who aren't right for each other, there are abusers, but that has to do with the individuals involved, and not the general freedom to marry.

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Tuesday, May 9, 2017

Consanguinamory and Reproduction

One of the most common reasons given to object to the right to consanguineous relationships is what I call the "mutant baby" argument. Even some people who support the right to consanguinamory and have even engaged in consanguineous sex themselves join with bigots in being strongly against close relatives having children together because of prejudiced backlash or the increased risk of birth defects.

In regards to the prejudiced backlash, the answer is not to let bigots have their way. It is for bigots to lose their power to bully, prosecute, and break up homes. Don't want children of consanguineous parents to have a hard time? Do not give them a hard time.

In regards to the increased risk of birth defects, scientific understanding is often lacking.

Most sexual encounters do not result in a birth. Many people who have relationships or marry never have genetic children together; some people in consanguinamorous relationships choose not to. So, we must recognize the differences between sex, marriage, parenting, and reproduction, and not ban the first three because of concerns about the last one.

But let's deal with that last one.

Most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant birth defects or other genetic problems; while births to other parents do sometimes have birth defects. There are happy, healthy, bright, attractive people born to close relatives who are productive members of society. We all know some, whether we know it or not, and whether they know it or not. It is that common. (Sometimes, they were conceived by an abuser, but often, not by an abuser but by mutual lovers.) We don’t prevent other people from marrying or deny them their reproductive rights based on increased odds of passing along a genetic problem or inherited disease. For example, it is entirely legal in the US and most other places for someone with Huntington's Disease to date, have sex, marry, and have genetic children. How can such rights be denied to people who are genetically healthy, simply because they are close relatives?

It is true that in general, children born to consanguineous parents have an increased chance of genetic problems than those born to nonconsanguineous parents, but the odds are still minimal. (UPDATE: Please see this wonky elaboration written by a Friend of FME.) There are US states and there are countries where consanguinamory is not illegal or at least it isn't prosecuted. Sweden will legally marry half-siblings in some circumstances. A comparison of the rate of genetic problems in these places to places that criminalize and actively prosecute consanguinamory reveals no discernible increase in genetic problems in the places that embrace this relationship right.

If a natural talent or gift runs in the family, the children born to consanguineous parents will be more likely to inherit and manifest that beneficial result as well; a birth benefit. But there are increased odds of problem with births to older parents, too. There's no stigma assigned to that, and it isn't illegal for older people to date, have sex, marry, and have genetic children together.

Anyone concerned about these things should have genetic testing and counseling. People who are not close relatives can pass along health problems, too.

The "birth defects" argument also implies that people with disabilities or some other birth defect are living lives so terrible that they should never have been born at all. Yet, there are many such people who are leading happy, fulfilling, productive lives.

But a current problem, in some (not all) cases, is that in giving birth, consanguineous parents will be outing themselves to someone who is prejudiced, and there will now be evidence of their (in some places) illegal love that can be used against them.

There are consanguinamorous parents happily raising their healthy children together. But some consanguinamorous relationships face very real threats. Again, the answer is to stop the persecution and prosecution. There is no good reason to deny consenting adults their equal protection of having their relationship and reproductive rights.

Consanguinamorous or not, anyone engaging in heterosexual intercourse should be aware of the possibility of pregnancy, the various forms of birth control and other options available, and the realities if pregnancy, birth, and raising children.

UPDATE: Jane has a great essay on these topics here.

With all of that in mind, let's look at this thread on a consensual incest discussion board. (The discussion is explicit, so if you have a problem with that, you are warned.)

carebear82 wrote…

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Monday, May 8, 2017

When Someone You Love Wants To Love You More

You may have come to this blog because you think or know someone in your family or closely related to you is attracted to you, or has a crush on you, or wants to getromantic or sexual with you. You may have had a mix of reactions to this, whether you've been shocked, surprised, confused, amused, bemused, worried, flattered, aroused, creeped out, repulsed, nervous, or some combination of these. So what do you do when a relative has a crush or very strong attraction to you?


These Feelings Are Normal and More Common Than You Think

These feelings are not so rare. There’s not necessarily any reason to get them to a mental health professional because they have these feelings. They are especially common when you were not raised by one another or with each other, but even if you were raised together or by one another, it's not unheard of.

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Sunday, May 7, 2017

Guilt By False Association

This post carries a ***TRIGGER WARNING*** because we will be discussing abuse and quoting/paraphrasing hateful, bigoted, discriminatory, sexist, racist, homophobic statements to expose the tactic of "guilt" by false association long used by anti-equality holdouts.

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Saturday, May 6, 2017

Frequently Asked Question: Is This Incest?

One frequently asked question is whether dating this person would be incest, or if doing this activity with a close relative is incest. The question is posed in different ways…

Is this incest?
Is it incest to date my in-law?
Is it incest to date my adopted sister?
Is it incest to date my adopted brother?
Is it incest to date my stepbrother?
Is it incest to date my stepsister?
Is it incest to date my uncle?
Is it incest to date my aunt?
Is it incest to date my cousin?
Is it incest to kiss my brother?
Is it incest to kiss my sister?
It it incest if my sibling and I have masturbated in front of each other?

The subtext is usually, “Is it wrong?

First of all, regardless of laws, I see nothing wrong with any kind of physical affection, contact, or companionship between any consenting adults or minors who are close in age, as long as existing vows to others are not being violated. This includes dating, literally sleeping together, seeing each other nude, hand-holding, hugging, kissing (of any sort,) contact with genitals, intercourse, living together, marrying, etc. If these people are right for each other and want this with each other, then it shouldn’t be anyone else’s place to object.

As I always point out, I’m writing about consensual experimentation, exploration, affection, making out, sex, love, dating, partnering, living together, and marriage. I’m not talking about assault, molestation, abuse, or coercion. If someone forces themselves on you, that is wrong regardless of their relation to you.

What is incest? That depends on who you ask. The definition I once found at Wikipedia was

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Thursday, May 4, 2017

How Nonmonogamous People Can Avoid Trouble


Believe it or not, there are still criminal laws in many places criminalizing consensual sex and relationships between adults.

It doesn't matter to them how loving, happy, and lasting the relationships are. It apparently doesn't matter to the people interfering that every dollar or minute they spend trying to stop consenting adults from loving each other is a dollar or minute that could instead go into protecting people, especially children, against predators.

In addition to the persecution and prosecution of consanguinamorous people, polyamorists, polygamists, and other ethical nonmonogamists can face discrimination and even prosecution.
Some awesome people put together a very helpful lists of state laws for polyamorous people in the US or considering moving to the US. First, note the disclaimer that there is an ever-present at the bottom of this blog. I'll mostly repeat it here:
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Wednesday, May 3, 2017

Why Do I Feel This Way?


Has anything like these ever happened to you?
  • You wake from from an erotically charged dream, feeling strange or confused because it featured a close relative or family member.

  • You're close to orgasm, whether you're alone or with at least one other person, and thoughts of a relative pop into your head, taking you to climax.

  • You've found yourself admiring your relative "a little too much," whatever the setting or occasion.

If you have experienced anything like any of those, you're not alone. This is more common than many people think, because far more people have such thoughts than will admit to most people they know.

If we're talking about someone who recently came (back) into your life and you, they, or the both of you were essentially raised through childhood apart, then it could be reunion GSA, which is very common in such situations. See this page for more information. Most of this entry also applies to you, but is more focused on people who were always in each other's life, or for the most part have been.

Is It Normal?

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