Monday, June 18, 2012

Kevin and Donna

Kevin and Donna are brother and sister. They agreed to be interviewed, as long as those names were used, which are not their real names.


FME: You are in a lovemaking relationship, correct?

Kevin: Yes.

FME: How would you describe the nature of your romantic relationship?

Donna: We’re still getting a handle on it, really. At first it was like siblings-with-benefits but it quickly became something deeper.

FME: Describe your background.

Kevin: We’re both in our thirties and successful professionals living on the west coast of the US. Neither one of us has been married before. We were raised by our parents in upper middle-class suburbia. Neither of us have children. I make my living writing.

FME: Are you heterosexual, heteroflexible, bisexual?

Kevin: I’m ever so slightly heteroflexible.

Donna: Heteroflexible is a good word for me.

FME: Explain?

Kevin: I’m attracted to women, not men, but I have been in situations with women and another man and there’s been a little play there, basically because it was unavoidable due to the physical mechanics of what was going on.

Donna: Like many other women who identify as heterosexual, I have had some experience with other women.

FME: You mentioned sexual encounters involving more than two people. Are you a swinger, polyamorous, what?

Kevin: I’m polyamorous; I can’t call myself a swinger. Some polyamorous people only have sex one-on-one even when they have multiple relationships. I sometimes have sex with two or more people.

Donna: I have been serially monogamous, although I don’t fit strictly into that definition anymore.

FME: Why not?

Donna: That has to do with what had been going on with Kevin, and what he's introduced me into.

FME: Okay, I’ll get back to that later. You grew up together? Are you full blood siblings? What kind of relationship did you have throughout your life before the consanguinamory started?

Kevin: We’re full blood siblings, raised together. We were often pals while growing up, but we grew a little distant with university studies and getting our careers going, but then we got back to being pals as adults.

Donna: We’d have a lot of fun together when we were children. We’d crack each other up all of the time. We didn’t fight. We got along really well. Now we get along even better!

FME: Are you living together with others, living together alone, living apart?

Kevin: We each have our own places, alone. We’ve been considering moving in together, but it is a matter of dealing with paperwork and the housing market.

FME: When did you first notice you had feelings for each other? Were they romantic, sexual, curious, an intense attraction, what?

Donna: Like I said, I was serially monogamous. I was always focused on my boyfriends, as far as my personal attentions. I had no reason to even think of him in that way, other than what some of my friends have said about him over the years, and I could see how much some of his girlfriends liked him. But, I found myself unattached for what was really the first time in my life. I sat back and thought about what it was I really wanted in a man and in a relationship. I realized that my brother was the kind of man I wanted, but of course I didn’t think I should be with him, I thought I should find someone like him. I didn’t think it would be possible to be with him. And yet I was with him. I was spending more time with him than anyone else, and the only thing that wasn’t there was the sex. I was used to a steady, ongoing sex life, and here I was going without, and he was the man who was there.

My brother is a very sensual, sexual person. I knew he had an active sex life and is polyamorous, and rather than thinking “Ew, he’s my brother,” I was more curious about all of that, almost living vicariously through him, wondering what it was like to be polyamorous. I was asking him more questions about his love life. More and more, thoughts about him started popping up here and there.

Kevin: I knew other siblings who were involved. I’ve spent a lot of time with a brother and sister who are deeply in love and have a beautiful relationship, and know of others. This is what probably made me open to the idea… seeing the love, the passion, the beauty of it all. Donna is a beautiful woman. But she was always in a monogamous relationship. She never seemed to be without a boyfriend since she’d hit puberty. And then, she was available. But I had to figure out if she would be interested.

FME: How do you feel about the lovemaking side of your relationship? Is it a natural extension of your general feelings and love for each other?

Kevin: It took our relationship to a whole new level. It doesn’t seem like a different relationship, just a better one. A deeper one.

Donna: It made sense for me; for us. I’d say it is a natural extension. It is extremely erotic and highly romantic.

FME: Kevin is polyamorous, and Donna hinted at not being monogamous anymore. Are you not in a closed relationship with each other?

Kevin: No, it isn’t closed, at least not with just the two of us, but this is definitely the primary relationship. I’ll explain. It has to do with that relationship I mentioned that includes that brother and sister. Once Donna and I got together, I didn’t want her to be uninformed of my relationship with them and, in turn, the relationship they’re in.

Donna: I can’t say I was surprised, given what was going on between us. Once I knew about them and they knew about us, we could just be there with them and be ourselves, not having to hide anything.

Kevin: Not only not hiding, but sharing.

Donna: That’s why I can’t say I’m monogamous, and why I’m still heteroflexible.

Kevin: We’re not seeing anyone else, though, just them. Neither of us is going to be with someone new unless we have discussed it and agreed. I’m very happy with the way things are right now, though.

Donna: I don’t know where I’d find the time for anyone else!

FME: Does anyone know the full, true nature of your relationship and how did they find out? How have they reacted? Does anyone know you as a couple, but not brother and sister?

Donna: The only people who know are the others we've been involved with. And some people Kevin talks with in [online] discussions and chats.

FME: How did you start making love with each other?

Kevin: I wrote about it. Here’s what I wrote…

Having seen a brother and sister together and just how powerful that is, I also started seeing my little sister, single for what seemed like the first time in her life, in a new light. How could I not, seeing a special brother-sister relationship in-person and up-close, and talking with other siblings enjoying their special relationships? One night, we were having dinner together and my sister told me she was taking a break from dating. I couldn’t help but think “What if…?”

It was on my mind a lot. At the end of another night I spent having dinner and talking at her place, the night ended with a hug (not unusual) and a kiss on the lips (THAT was unusual). I thought I might be reading into it what I wanted to read into it.

A family event was planned and my sister invited me to plan on crashing at her place at the end of that late night. I thought about it and had a gift for her that I want her to open in private at her place. She'd been feeling unattractive, which was just a result of some bullcrap with her last boyfriend. She's a very attractive woman.

So my sister and I went back to her place. It was getting late but I had her open her present. It was some bath oils and such, candles, and this thin, silky kimono thing. She's always liked taking a long bath when she's had time to do so. I insisted she try out the gift even though it was late; she hadn’t been sleeping well those nights, I offered that the bath might help. I drew a warm bath for her, lit some candles, put in some mood music for her to help her relax. I left her in the bathroom with the kimono and closed the door.

I returned in a bit with some wine. Bubbles gave her some privacy in the bath, so I couldn't see anything as I handed her a glass.

When she came out of the bathroom, she was wearing the kimono. She looked stunning and told her so. I had her sit down on the couch and I put some baby oil on her feet and started massaging them. She was relaxing and had her head back with her eyes closed and was moaning in appreciation, so I started working up her legs slowly.

I was becoming a nervous wreck as I kept moving higher. My fingers were finally brushing against the top of her legs when she tensed up, crossed her legs, and said we should stop.

I asked why... had I done something wrong?

She said we just had to stop, because if I got any further she wouldn't be able to stop me.

I said what's wrong with that?

She said we shouldn't. I'm her brother.

I felt like getting out of there. I asked her if I should leave and she said no, I had probably had too much to drink and I should stay there as planned. So I went into damage control mode and told her that I love her and I wanted to treat her right and do whatever I could to make her feel good, and that I was sorry if I made her feel uncomfortable.

She said she wasn't feeling uncomfortable. She was having a good time. She just didn't want to do the wrong thing.

I asked her if she could give me one good reason why I shouldn't have been allowed to complete the massage. She said she'd think about it, but insisted we turn in for the night. She gave me a pillow and blankets for the couch.

I thought I would never fall asleep, but I did.

Sometime in the middle of the night she woke me up and said she couldn't sleep. I was worried that she was going to send me home. Instead, she said she was thankful for the present and if I still wanted to, she wanted me to go ahead and continue with the massage. Like an idiot, I said, "Really?" There wasn't much light but I could see she was wearing the kimono.

She handed me the baby oil and sat down on the couch. I scrambled to the floor. I started to rub the oil on her legs again. I couldn't wait very long, though. I gently pushed her knees apart and took the risk of kissing her thigh. She didn't protest so I went ahead and started doing what is probably my favorite thing to do: cunnilingus. She slid forward to make it easier for me.

It felt like the greatest moment in my life. She came hard and pushed my head away. She apologized and said she was extremely sensitive at that moment.

As far as I was concerned, I was very happy with that being the end to the night. I was extremely turned on, but I didn't mind if that was all that happened. However, she put some of the oil on her hands and rubbed me. It didn't take me very long since I was already so excited.

She cleaned up and she took me by the hand back to her room and asked me to hold her while we slept, which is exactly what I did.

We talked about it a little in the morning, but we had to go meet up with our family. She kept giving me signals throughout the day that she was happy, so that's good.

Over the next several days, we were busy with things that have kept us apart. We stayed in frequent contact, though. We were both happy with things.

The next time we were able to get together, I took her out to dinner then we went back to her place, where we made out like a couple of teenagers. I went down on her again, and this time she went down on me. I wanted to be in her so much, but I thought that was going to be too much, too soon.

She asked me to stay over again, which I had hoped she would. I told her I needed to shower off after being so sweaty with her, and she joined me in the shower! That was very nice. I like it when a woman takes initiative sometimes. I was excited, of course, so she soaped me up and rubbed me until I had another orgasm. Good thing, too, because she slept in my arms and I probably would have been awake with an erection all night.

We spent the next day together and I had her pack to spend the night at my place because we were going to a party near where I live. Since there were people at the party who knew both if us we had to be careful. We were having trouble, though, so we left early. I took her back to my place. We were making out like teenagers again and she told me she wanted me inside her. She said it was the perfect way to end the night. We're both clean and she has an IUD, so I was able to be inside her with nothing between us. It was incredible.

It was great to wake up in each others' arms again. We’ve been together regularly since then. Life has never been better.

Donna: I was torn about what to do. I wanted it, but I had to think about it, and that’s why I stopped him when I did. I couldn’t think of any reason to deny him, or deny myself, and so I didn’t. I don’t regret it. The only thing I regret is that we didn’t get together sooner. It has been wonderful to unite with him, wake up with him, and have new experiences with him.

FME: You came together in your thirties. Many consanguinamorous relationships that are not initiated through Genetic Sexual Attraction have their origins in the teen years. Was there any hint of the future in your relationship back then?

Kevin: Growing up, I was very aware of women, but did not consciously look at my sisters with sexual consideration. In general when it came to sex, I strongly admired the female form and personalities, but I was paranoid about unplanned pregnancy, STDs, etc. (HIV/AIDS was big news when I was growing up) and was under the impression that sex was either something saved for marriage or done secretly by people planning to get married. We also had our own rooms from an early age, and I was a very modest boy, and I was introverted so it wasn’t like there were many opportunities to see each other nude or for me to play childhood makeout games. I was completely unaware back then that siblings or any other close relatives did these things, so it was never like I was consciously pining away for either of my sisters. I didn’t spy on them, never went through their underwear drawers, or anything like that.

The years went by. Donna and I kind of became strangers as we pursued our educations and careers, only seeing each other for holidays and special events. As we got our careers going, we reconnected and became good friends again. But she seemed to never be without a boyfriend since she hit puberty. Me, I was a late bloomer, but once I got started, I never stopped. At first I had what seemed like long term and monogamous relationships. My first love was an older woman, and she told me once that when she had been a teenager she was turned on once by her brother. That might have been my first thought that such a thing was possible. But the opportunity with Donna wasn’t there until as already described.

Donna: Kevin was my big brother, and that was that. I knew that some of my friends had crushes on him, but the thoughts and opportunities just weren’t there until relatively recently.

FME: Do you think family members have some things better or some advantages that unrelated lovers might not, such as more intense feelings and lovemaking? What are some of the advantages and disadvantages?

Donna: The disadvantages as far as I see it are entirely artificial. They are all about the dislike others have for what we have together. The advantage is that I have someone I know truly loves me and cares about me.

FME: Do you have feelings for other close biological relative that are anything like the ones you have for each other, whether they are as intense or not?

Kevin: I have to admit I’ve been curious what it would be like with others, but the women I’ve thought of are not available, and with Donna and our friends, I’m lacking nothing I want.

Donna: I would be open to exploring my flexible side with our older sister, but she’s not available. Kevin is the person I’ve bonded with. No feelings for others match that.

FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your love?

Kevin: I understand that some people are disgusted by the idea. But that should not have any power over our relationship. Those who disapprove need to ask themselves exactly why they disapprove. I love Donna more than I’ve loved any other person. What is the problem?

Donna: They don’t have to do it if they don’t like it. They have no idea how we feel about each other, and how much we love each other.

FME: Donna, what do you say to people who say you couldn't possibly consent to sex with your brother?

Donna: Do they want to take away my right to vote, too? My driving privileges? I am a successful, educated, independent woman with good mental health. I have chosen this, and it should be my choice. I’m not being harmed, and neither is anyone else.

FME: Kevin, there are people who say that you should protect your sister instead of having sex with her.

Kevin: I don't think they have a very good view of sex. This is what she wants. It is what I want. We're both better because we're together.

FME: Would you get legally married if you could, and if that included protection from things such as bullying and workplace discrimination based on your relationship?

Donna: It would be great to have that option. This side of the relationship is still very new, so I’d need more time before I would decide marriage would be the way to go for us. But it would be helpful to have that as a real possibility when dealing with this.

Kevin: I can’t imagine any other relationship being better than this one, and I would very much like to have the freedom to marry her so that if that time comes, I could propose and she could accept, without any hesitations or asterisks.

FME: What are your plans for the future?

Kevin: I’m wondering how long we can go before the rest of the family figures out what is going on, so I want to have a plan in place for a worst-case scenario. Perhaps they will let it be an unspoken, open secret? Other than approval and support, that would be the best, I think.

Donna: As already mentioned, we’re considering merging residences. If our family asks why we’ll focus on the finances and convenience. I do a lot of traveling, and I can say it doesn’t make sense to be paying for an empty place.

FME: What advice do you have to someone who has romantic or sexual feelings for a close biological relative?

Kevin: Caution is very important. Seek out a support network, and the best place for that right now is online. Try to think of ways of determining if there is mutual interest. For example, think of something you can say or do that can be taken more than one way; one as romantic or sexual. That way, you have some wiggle room if she or he doesn’t reciprocate that interest or feeling. If it works out, it will be the most exciting connection you’ll ever have.

Donna: Somebody has to risk it and make a move. Be aware that people like us can't be open with everyone about our love, so that is something that you will have to deal with. However, you've never known a love as strong as this. Go ahead and flirt. Test the waters. You might be surprised. Like Kevin did with me, pull back if the other person asks you to. I just needed to think about it. Maybe it will be the same in your case.


Thank you to Kevin and Donna. Shouldn't they be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage without prosecution, persecution, or discrimination?

You can read other interviews here.

If you want to be interviewed, you can contact me at fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com

If you are in, or considering such a relationship, you can find help here.

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  1. Keith, I really appreciate your blog, I'm sure relationships like this one exist and they're more frequent than people think, but...
    How can I be sure that these interviews are true and not invented?
    I'm not attacking you and I don't want to say these things to deny sexual freedom, even because you discredited all the arguments very well, I just want to be sure about what I read on this blog :)

    1. Good question. I have varying levels of certainty in the truth of the different interviews. I have known Kevin all of my life and I have known Donna all of her life. I couldn't be more certain. I am also certain of the triad relationship, being a witness of their love, which inspired me to blog in the first place. I'm very confident in the truth of most of the rest of the interviews I have personally conducted.

  2. Oooo~ I like your creativity with the blue and pink color changes for Donna and Kevin.

    In some ways I see what Cornelius is saying. (How can we know your interview was true Cornelius? LOL.) In some ways this seemed kind of fantasy and erotica like. But hey, if that's how it worked out, that's how it worked out, and more power too em for being in a happy and loving relationship. =)

    1. Kevin is a writer. He has a way of being descriptive and telling a story. He had already written the white portion.

    2. Oh okay, hehe :P That's cool. I didn't doubt this, plus you just confirmed that you have already known him.

      Keep up the creativity with the blog, creativity draws in people's attention :3

  3. Ok, I believe you :)

  4. Great interview. Good luck to you both.

  5. It is great to hear about others involved in a consensual relationship as adults.

  6. I'm sorry. I Just don't buy it. It could be anybody just writing this. At least if someone conducted a video interview with mosaic-covered faces, this story would have some credibility. If more prominent people would willingly or unwillingly, ie. Columbia University Political Science professor David Epstein, come out about their consanguineous relationships, it would be a giant leap for the FME movement.

    1. Exactly, It's what I was saying.
      We need more people coming out.

    2. You mean the David Epstein that was prosecuted and brutalized in the news? I don't think he came out by choice, nor is he a good example as to why someone should come out.

      Not ready to risk the life I love having. Sorry.


    3. It is a Catch-22 about coming out. If more people come out, it will help progress. But in order to do so, they risk persecution, discrimination, and even prosecution.

      These interviews are edited. The interview process is long and involved, and some people I have
      started to interview have pulled out, perhaps because they were not genuine and they were not willing to put in the effort.

      Some people have opted out of an interview out of fear, I think. Even with the interviews I have published, some people have had me, after it was published, remove the assumed name or handle they used because someone linked it to them or they were afraid someone would link it to them.

      I've had more than one interviewee allow me to include an email address to contact them. One of them quickly changed her mind and had me remove it after she got negative contact, and the other person has apparently killed their account after a long time.

      The whole point of this blog is to support relationship rights, because people are dealing with the kind of bigotry that prevents them from fully coming out in the first place.

    4. Even if anyone did just make it up, it's still a positive interview. Every positive interview is a help to equality.

  7. Yes, and yet even you write comments anonymously. Wonder why? If you can't even take the responsibility of commenting such a blog, why do you condemn those that wish to have privacy aswell?

    And people in Universities do have such relationships, even other respected members of society. They just have more to loose coming out.

    I believe anonymousity offers safety to open up, even for those who have a lot to loose. Including myself, to be able to write such a comment, and give my opinion. :)

    I like the interview very much, hope to read other interviews aswell. Keep up the great job!

  8. I hope no one thought that I was condemning the work of this blog.
    Ok, it could be anybody just writing this, but if stories like this one didn't exist, why should someone invent them to spread tolerance and support?
    I mean, CUI PRODEST?
    Then it would be easier to do like SOAR, which always discourages to "cross the line" if you're in a GSA relationship.
    I have always read a lot of stories on the old GSA forum, most of them were about struggling, some were about successful relationships (for example Michelle and her half-sibling), some were about broken relationships and consequent struggling (osiris and isis), changing the nature of the relationship (rollingrocker1972), ecc.
    Why sholud someone invent all these stories?
    What could it be? A plot against humanity?
    So even if this interview is false, I'll never change my mind about full equality, Keith has always discredited the invalid arguments very well.
    All the best to people who deserve equality which is denied because of their "unusual" relationships.
    Greets from Italy.

    1. Always nice to hear from you, Cornelius. Thanks.


To prevent spam, comments will have to be approved, so your comment may not appear for several hours. Feedback is welcome, including disagreement. I only delete/reject/mark as spam: spam, vulgar or hateful attacks, repeated spouting of bigotry from the same person that does not add to the discussion, and the like. I will not reject comments based on disagreement, but if you don't think consenting adults should be free to love each other, then I do not consent to have you repeatedly spout hate on my blog without adding anything to the discourse.

If you want to write to me privately, then either contact me on Facebook, email me at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com, or tell me in your comment that you do NOT want it published. Otherwise, anything you write here is fair game to be used in a subsequent entry. If you want to be anonymous, that is fine.

IT IS OK TO TALK ABOUT SEX IN YOUR COMMENTS, BUT PLEASE CHOOSE YOUR WORDS CAREFULLY AS I WANT THIS BLOG TO BE AS "SAFE FOR WORK" AS POSSIBLE. If your comment includes graphic descriptions of activity involving minors, it's not going to get published.