exclusive interviews in which the lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law.
The couple in the interview
below are consenting adults with a passionate and playful love for
each other. Yet they face discrimination and prejudice for their love. Other than being attractive, there is nothing about them that would cause you to look at them and see anything different than any other citizen who should have their rights. They are very much in love and it is cruel to discriminate against them or criminalize their relationship.
the interview below and ask yourself if there is one good reason these
two consenting adults should be denied their right to marry and have their marriage treated equally under the law or should have to
hide the full, true nature of their relationship from anyone in their
**PLEASE NOTE SOME OF THE DISCUSSION GETS SEXUALLY INTENSE**
FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourself.
Pat: I'm a 27-year-old white male, living in Oregon. After attending college locally, I'm self-employed and live with my mother, who is 45 and who is also my wife. We live alone.
FME: You are in a sexual relationship with your genetic mother?
FME: Are you legally married? Have you been ceremonially married? Living as though married?
Pat: We are not legally married, but are living as though married.
FME: How would you describe your sexual orientation and your relationship orientation?
Pat: We are both heterosexual and monogamist.
FME: What kind of relationship did you have while you were raising him? How did this end up being a single mother home?
Jennifer: The relationship I had with him while he was growing up was the typical mother-son relationship. We did the average mom-son activities, I went to his plays and baseball games, and he was the everyday kid playing and getting dirty. I ended up being a single mom because the man who got me pregnant simply left when Patrick was one year old. It wasn't a match made in Heaven. I don't wish him ill and hope he's happy wherever he is. It all worked out for the better.
FME: Before your relationship became sexual, had you heard of mothers and sons being sexual with each other?
Jennifer: I had heard of such incest cases, of mothers and sons being sexually active with one another, in fact I recall reading an article about it, don't recall how I had browsed my way to that particular article, but as I was reading it, it made me think about what it must feel like, to allow your son to enter the spot from whence he came. But on that particular day it was just a passing thought.
FME: How did sexual affection become a part of your relationship?
Pat: I was still in high school. I had raging hormones, strong emphasis on raging! But for some reason I kept striking out at school with girls. Not so much striking out as hitting foul balls. Just when I thought I'd get somewhere, some obstacle or another would arise. It was almost like a hex, even though I don't believe in such things.
Anyway she must have noticed this trend and my Internet browser history probably didn't leave much for the imagination; sometimes I'd forget to delete it.
So one scorching day she sort of starts to have a birds and the bees talk with me. I felt it was a bit comical given that I was pretty old for it. But then she said that if I wasn't having any luck with the girls at school, that I could “practice” with her.
That revelation surprised me, but also at the same time I accepted it with intense excitement.
She reiterated that we'd go through with it only if I was completely comfortable with the idea. I asked her questions, like, “Is it OK to do?”
And she asked me questions like how far I’d been with a girl. I confessed to a second base result as my best score.
She then set down the parameters. We would start out slow and then gradually move on to actual intercourse. So then we went into the bedroom and we started making out. That was all for the first few days.
Then we moved up to oral sex. Suffice to say she knew what she was doing and I didn't. But she was very supportive and loving/caring. The first time she [gave me fellatio], I didn’t last long, but she was again supportive, telling me that it was OK and that I was doing fine.
Afterwards, we moved on to full intercourse. And that's been the daily occurrence ever since.
FME: Can you describe your feelings during that process and/or event? Did you feel pressured in any way? Did you have any negative feelings or reservations or hesitations?
Pat: Jeez, heart pounding with excitement, a nervous wreck, horny beyond reason, and of course falling head over heels for her.
Jennifer: I, too, was feeling a bit nervous, not knowing how he'd react to such a proposal, but my anxiety was eased with his first physical reaction, [which was to touch my legs.] Bless him, he was so unbelievably cute at that moment. I had to slow him down and take him by the hand in the next room. I felt a slow approach would be better, to up the excitement and to let him familiarize himself with sexual foreplay, my body and appreciate the moment better.
So for a few days it was just make out sessions, and encouraging his roaming hands to feel free to [explore.] Then we moved on to oral sex. As Patrick described earlier on, he was extremely excited, as is natural for anyone's first time [receiving oral sex.]
FME: Some would say this was grooming and/or abuse, and that consent is not truly possible in a situation like this. What do you say to that?
Pat: People will say a lot of things about a situation they don't understand, a situation they DON'T want to understand. They can hurl the phrases like "abuse" and "grooming" all they like. To me, in regard to my loving and beautiful relationship with my kind and gentle-hearted mother they are empty phrases that are better applied somewhere else.
FME: Do you, or have you had feelings like this for any other close family members whether they are genetic relatives or not? Any prior experience with family?
Pat: No, I haven't been attracted to any other family members.
Jennifer: Me neither.
FME: How do you describe the lovemaking now?
Pat: For us the lovemaking is quite natural as well as very erotic. The family aspect of it makes it very erotic for the both of us.
Jennifer: Oh my, the lovemaking. Where to begin? It's mesmerizing. He's so thoughtful and considerate, and quite the gentleman. Some might think, starting with someone from scratch - I took his virginity after all - would be too much work, or too boring. I say not at all. In fact those first few nights together, when Patrick was getting his bearings, under the skylight with the moon over u,s are some of the most erotic and memorable lovemaking sessions for me.
Pat: I don't know how to describe it that well in words. But the loving and nurturing feeling during intercourse with her is just pure bliss. She is so caring and so patient. Especially when we first started, I was just an eager teenager without any experience. The first time together in bed, we had her on top, since it was better to start slowly and for her to be in charge. I was erratic and all over the place, and she placed both her palms on my face and looked deep into my eyes, and said, "Take your time sweetie, I'll guide you through it."
Again, I didn’t last long. I closed my eyes in delight. When I opened them, I saw her looking over me, with this serene smile. Then she caressed my face and started giving me small soft pecks on my lips. She is so soft, and not just physically, but emotionally as well. She loves giving me Eskimo kisses during sex. Her language during sex is so motherly and affectionate. Even her physical responses to my over eagerness our first time were motherly and nurturing. That's the best I can describe it.
And when I woke up the next morning I saw her and she was caressing my hair. Of course me being the teenager my first instinct was to jump her. Her first reaction to my morning after appetite was to giggle and allow me the satisfactory illusion, in a nice way, of being a mature man and having his morning bliss moment.
Jennifer: In all honesty, I can't think of anything cuter than what Patrick just described.
FME: Describe your relationship now.
Jennifer: Our relationship today, like all relationships has matured and our bond has gotten stronger. We are in a closed relationship and haven't been with anyone else, we are exclusive. We are husband and wife. We share a bed and make love in it.
Pat: Yeah that sounds pretty accurate. I work from home and she's a stay at home mom, literally.
FME: Does anyone in your life, especially family, know the full, true nature of your relationship and how did they find out? How do you keep your privacy?
Pat: No, no one from our family knows about our relationship. We can't act like a couple in public, and we don't. As far as privacy is concerned, we don't have to take a lot of precautions because the city we live in is heavily wooded even the most urban parts, but we live in the suburbs and the houses are spread apart, plus the thick vegetation helps.
Jennifer: In terms of privacy, I'm not concerned either. For one, I'm not what one might call a screamer and two, our home is surrounded by a mini forest.
FME: Having to hide the full nature of your relationship from some people can be a disadvantage. Can you describe how that has been? Are there any other disadvantages? Conversely, do you think consanguineous relationships have some advantages and some things better than unrelated lovers?
Pat: We are, of course, lawfully forced to hide the nature of our relationship and it can feel frustrating at times; you want to hold hands and kiss in public like everyone else, but you can't. Other disadvantages would be people close to you finding out and being ostracized.
Jennifer: I agree, but I suppose I'm a bit more mellow about it. There are advantages too. Not socially speaking, but sexually. It's a far more exciting love life and far more loving in nature. The combination of a mother-son, especially single mother as that heightens the bond, love, and add to the mix the sexual component and you've got yourself a recipe for being deliriously happy when you wake up next to each other in the morning.
FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship?
Pat: I'd say live your own life.
Jennifer: Well I wouldn't be so curt. Most ignorance comes from lack of understanding. I wouldn't say anything. I'd be busy at home, with my lovely son.
FME: What would you say to someone who doesn't believe this is for real?
Pat: Not my problem. I'm real, the love of my life is real and our love is real. We live it, every day, through the good and the bad. Fortunately the good heavily outweighs the bad.
Jennifer: I would say for them to not worry so much about our existence, but look forward towards improving theirs.
FME: Aside from the law, which I think is ridiculous, can you think of anything that would make relationships like this inherently wrong?
Pat: The only thing that I can think that would be wrong with such a relationship would be like with all other relationships: irresponsible behavior.
Jennifer: I agree.
FME: What advice do you have for others, especially mothers or sons, who have feelings for a close relative?
Pat: I would advise for a son who is attracted to his mother or for a mother who is attracted to her son to lay the cards on the table and ask her. For me, I was lucky that my mom made the first move, others might not be so lucky and might just miss out. But I would only advise on this move if the son is quite certain that the mother feels the same way, has dropped hints or made subtle advances.
Jennifer: I agree. From a mother's point of view, if the signs are there, I say act boldly. Offer yourself to him. He will follow your lead.
[Advice from this blog on that subject.]
FME: Did you get married in a ceremony? If you could get legally married and you would be treated equally under the law and protected from discrimination, would you?
Pat: No we did not get married in a ceremony. And yes, of course we would take the opportunity to be legally married. She's my wife, my bride.
Jennifer: No ceremony, but one sweet proposal. We were in bed, cuddling after making love when he suddenly gave me this slow sensual kiss and looked deep into my eyes and popped the question. I immediately said yes! That was 5 years ago. I have been his wife ever since.
FME: Any plans for the future?
Pat: Just live life to the fullest with my lovely wife.
Jennifer: Make love and enjoy every waking moment with him.
There you have it. Consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone, who have a beautiful love, but are denied their rights.
Why should they be denied their rights? There’s no good reason.We
need to recognize that all adults should be free to be with any and all
consenting adults as they mutually consent, and part of doing that is
adopting relationship rights for all, including full marriage equality sooner rather than later. People are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.
You can read other interviews I have done here.
If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.
Thank you to the Pat and Jennifer for doing this interview! If you want to be interviewed about your "forbidden" relationship, connect with me by checking under the "Get Connected" tab there at the top of the page.
- New to This Blog?
- Essential Reading
- Welcome Message
- An Introduction to This Blog
- About This Blog
- Why I Started This Blog
- A Happy Triad (Interview)
- Case Studies
- For Family & Friends
- Why Support Full Marriage Equality?
- How You Can Help
- Frequently Asked Questions
- For Journalists
- Discredited, Invalid Arguments
- US Supreme Court Should Rule For Equality
- Marriage Equality Ammendment
- Rights Aren't Reserved For the Majority
- Others May Consent to Something You Wouldn't
- FAQ: Why is Consensual Incest Illegal?
- FAQ: How Common is Consensual Incest?
- A Natural Attraction
- Need Help?
- We're About Love & Sex Not Abuse
- Essential Reading
- Maps, etc.
- Get Connected
- Facebook Cause Group
- Consanguinamory on Facebook
- My Facebook
- My Twitter
- My Tumblr
- My Google Plus
- Email me at yahoo.com
- The Final Manifesto on Blogspot
- The Final Manifesto on Tumblr
- Consanguinamory Blog
- Friends of Lily
- Cousin Love and LGBTQ Rights on Tumblr
- Kindred Spirits Forum [FREE No-Porn Forum]
- Brothers & Sisters Forum
- Genetic Reunion Group [Yahoo!]
- Genetic Attraction Forums
- Reddit: r/incest
- Reddit: r/incest_relationships [Private]
- For More Info
- The Final Manifesto on Tumblr
- Consanguinamory Blog
- Friends of Lily
- Cousin Love and LGBTQ Rights on Tumblr
- The Polyamory Wiki
- Nat'l Society of Genetic Counselors
- The Center for Sex-Positive Culture
- Nat'l Coalition for Sexual Freedom
- Consenting Adult Action Network
- World Polyamory Association
- Canadian Poly Advocacy Assoc.
- Polyamory in Australia
- Polytical.org [UK]
- Charlie Glickman [PhD SexEd]