Billy and Betty - A Lifelong Love

We have yet another exclusive interview to bring you. As this interview is being published, there are many people still spending more time home with family members. Perhaps some of them will find this interview an inspiration? Or they can see this for some possibilities.

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. Most can’t even be out if the closet or they’ll gave prosecution under absurd incest laws, which, instead of focusing on abuse, also target consensual relationships.

The man interviewed below, with the agreement of his lover, should be free to legally marry his partner, or simply to be together as a couple without having to hide, yet they can’t. They are consenting adults who aren’t hurting anyone; why should they have been denied their rights? In much of the world, they could be criminally prosecuted for their love, and might be persecuted severely in addition.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what this man has to say about the lifelong bond they share. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic and romantic, but whatever your reaction, should lovers like these be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

Also please note that someone you love, respect, and admire could be in a similar relationship right now. Should they be attacked and denied rights because of the "incest" label?

**WARNING: Brief, mild descriptions of childhood exploration.**


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FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourselves and your background.

Billy: We are a full-blooded brother, age 56, and sister, 54. We are best friends, lovers, and partners in a small aviation enterprise who raised two children - Betty’s - together. Until we were twelve and ten our dad flew little airplanes in combat zones for the U.S. Army - they actually have more than the Air Force - and our mom was a “work from home mom” raising us. 

Then - this is the Army’s version of events, dad’s is far less kind - he was discredited for continuing to use amphetamines - known to be addictive - that the service had officially supplied him with for years after they changed the rules on their use. They tossed him out for actions that had been officially sanctioned and then officially ignored before they needed to downsize and booted him. 

Each of us have two-years of post-secondary education. I hold an aviation mechanic (A&P) license. Betty has a business degree (AABA). We both hold commercial pilot licenses (CPL). We have one sibling who is seven years younger than Betty. He has never been a part of our play together. But, he did play a significant role in keeping our mom busy while we played together. 

Biologically, Betty has two children, my niece and nephew whom I played - and continue to play - the very enjoyable role of being a father to. Their biological dad was around, even if an appointment was needed to see him. Otherwise, he is “a once a week dinner at a decent restaurant and generous presents at Christmas and on birthdays” kind of father. 

Betty’s ex has always been an ass to me. But that might be because he figured out early in their relationship that he would never displace me as her primary emotional supporter. He took a cheap shot at both of us during their divorce. Accusing me of being the kids biological father. Which once disproven totally undermined everything that he’s ever done afterward.

We had previously discussed moving to another town after college and once there presenting ourselves as man and wife. Maybe we should have. But I think of my nephew and niece as my kids and they exist because we didn’t want to cut what was left of our disintegrating family - six out of seven of them would not have approved - out of our lives.


FME: Describe your sexual awakening. 

Betty and I were each other’s first emotional connections and our first physical lovers. We played the normal pre-sexual exploration games with one another and with like aged playmates. We also made up fun games for ourselves that invariably ended up with one or both of us being naked, or us and our friends being naked together, usually in a closet.

Starting when we were seven and five we were good friends with another brother and sister our age who lived in the neighborhood. One day while we were playing something small but valuable that we shouldn’t have been playing with went missing. After looking through the house, our friend’s parents reacted by strip-searching all four of us. Our mom tried to scare us by telling us that had we stolen it - the item was later found out in their backyard -- we would have been locked away in a prison cell. 

We told our friends what mom said and the two experiences were combined into a non-sexual game we played together. First, one of us would get strip-searched and then get locked in a prison cell - the closet - it progressed to having two or three of us being naked in the closet together. All the kids we knew played ‘Cops and Robbers’, ‘Cowboys and Indians’, ‘War’, and ‘Pirate’ back then. Our games differed only in that it ended up with naked people in a closet.


FME: So you have involved others?

Betty is my primary sexual and emotional connection. After becoming sexual beings we have, on occasion, played together with others. We had a girlfriend who was in the seventh grade when the two of us were in sixth and eighth grades. Two years later after we had moved, we had another girlfriend. Starting when I was 18 and Betty 16, we played with another brother and sister couple.
 
We discussed the idea of marriages of convenience between the four of us so we could continue living as couples - perhaps even exchanging ID, which was feasible in 1986 - but the only thing we all actually shared was that we were both primarily heterosexual sibling couples. They thought it was incredibly “naughty” being sexual partners with one’s siblings. We just thought - and think - that it is “incredible” being with our true soulmates.

Mom left town - she was teetering on the edge, barely hanging on - chased out by authorities who kept coming around her job intimidating people trying to scare our dad into entering their jurisdiction. Betty stayed with me and finished high school. Then she went on to college. She moved in with her husband after she married and I moved in with my girlfriend for a while. I got a place of my own after that relationship ended. Betty’s had ended years before.

FME: So you had time apart?

We lived apart for six or seven years, but for the last two - after she split with her husband - Betty was a constant presence in our house. My girlfriend ran her own business. She had figured out my bond with Betty even if not the depth of it, and she wasn’t intimidated. She teased us about being lovers and we pretended that she was suggesting it. We all wound up in bed together, and in the living room together, and the kitchen… Well, you get the idea.

When her dad - who was much older - passed, my girlfriend and her mom inherited the family business. They sold it as soon as they got a decent price and each started a new life doing what they actually wanted to do. Not what was expected of them. We had talked about me selling my business and traveling with her. But we both knew it wasn’t in the cards. Parting ways, the three of us partied while Betty’s ex had his kids over. In the morning my girlfriend left on her journey and Betty and the kids moved in with me. 


FME: How long ago was that?

That was more than twenty-six years ago. Together, Betty and I chose to move a few times but we were always together. My niece and nephew were three and five and they lived with us until they went to college. When our mom got older she moved in with us. She’d already figured out that Betty and I were partners, but thinks that is something that happened after Betty’s divorce. She doesn’t approve, which we find confusing. But we all love one another and a détente prevails. 

Our parents were not prudes. We were both born in the 1960s, during the ‘Hippy Dippy’, “Summer of Love’ and ‘HumanBeIn’ era. Although from small towns they had lived in metropolitan areas and in Europe while dad was in the Army. We were bathed together when we were little and had shared a bathroom. Neither of us were shy. Before we knew what sex was I had let Betty write in snow using my pee. 

We formed lots of great memories growing up. Playing doctor exploring one another and playing house together. I hit puberty first and Betty was fascinated by the changes in my body. Soon after I learned to masturbate she tried masturbating me; soon after that we tried to figure out how to masturbate her. She hit puberty and then we discovered the joy of oral sex;

It was a crazy time. Our family was collapsing at this time. I hit puberty. Dad got kicked out of the Army. We had to move off base. I discovered masturbation, Betty learned how to jack me off. We moved again when dad got a job managing a pizza parlor. We figured out how to masturbate her. She hit puberty. Dad got caught flying people around on the side without a license. He was fired. 

We moved into mom’s parent’s house. Dad took off. We spent that year living in the country where we knew nobody. We discovered oral sex and shared that with our little friend. We each enjoyed performing it on the other two. We spent the summer with our other grandparents and made love with each other in the warm water of the Gulf of Mexico.

Mom was bouncing around like a pinball. Her parents were pushing her and his parents were pulling and when she tried to get on her feet the State came around to tell everyone a bunch of half-truths. One game I remember well was not allowing mom to register for school without a utility bill for our new address in her name to prove we lived there. Then the school would send a Truant Officer to ask mom why we weren’t in school.


FME: How would you describe the sex or making love with her now? Natural? Taboo? Kinky?

Making love with Betty isn’t taboo or kinky at all. It is a sweet, really comfortable thing. It’s as if we are both seasoned concert musicians who know the instruments that we play both forward and backward. We know just how to get perfect pitch from them. Being together is always wonderfully erotic. Nothing can possibly compare to giving and receiving back unconditional love. The two of us know absolutely everything about one another and we never have to pretend.

While we do share - and have shared - the very best experiences together, we agree that it’s good that we have each had other sexual and romantic experiences. I liken it to food, there might be one particular dish that I enjoy over all others. But it’s easier to enjoy that dish if I’ve tried several. It’s easy to like a well planned and well prepared meal over a hasty thrown together one. I’m not denigrating anyone. I think each of the lovers whose company I have enjoyed is special. Each is/was a great meal in a wonderful restaurant. But one is the perfect dish for me.

We have a strange set of “rules,” but it works for us. We work together and share a home. if it’s just us the rule is that we can’t get so carried away that others could hear or see evidence of what we are doing. If we are together with mom we can be affectionate to the level mom considers normal for all siblings who care for each other. Cuddling, kissing on the cheek, hand holding and quick touches are all okay. More is frowned upon - but there is some give and take - she lives in our house. Obviously, with outsiders the standard is different.


FME: Are you primarily siblings, or primarily lovers, or are those roles indistinguishable at this point

We presented as brother and sister raising the children. When we are alone together our roles as siblings and lovers merge. When we are in different environments the environment determines our role. Sometimes in the business world neither role is present. We had never been with another without each other when we were together before we agreed to date other people. Before Betty accepted her future ex-husbands proposal we continued our relationship with each other. We had a hiatus that may have been permanent except that her marriage came apart. 

We’ve talked about it. Betty worked for me during her marriage as she had before she started dating. Her future-ex didn’t like her closeness to me, but I think that was incredibly short sighted. Since I loved Betty I would never go after her while she was married. Others who just saw her as wonderful, bright, and beautiful had no such constraint. He didn’t trust her around me, but I had something valuable to lose. I showed restraint, not wanting to be the cause of their splitting-up. But I knew that he just would have screwed up their relationship over something else anyway.

My relationship with my girlfriend was nice. She is a fine person with similar values; but she had very different dreams. In her mind she was trapped by circumstance into living the life her father chose for her: running the family business. I understood that she felt pushed by them, so I never pushed her. I was safe because I had my own business and did not want to have a say in hers while still being cordial with her dad. Actually, her dad and I became good friends.


FME: How long has it been now? And who knows the full, true nature of your relationship?

Counting the years we spent apart, but not the relatively few nights our work has intervened we have spent over 32 years of nights together sharing a bed. Before Betty married her ex only our girlfriends and boyfriends that we played with together knew the full, true nature of our relationship with one another. When Betty’s ex made his accusations against us as part of the divorce proceedings he made claims that were provably false. 

Some of our friends have been astute and figured it all out. Our reaction depended upon the actual question and who was asking. “We are siblings, of course we love each other.” “We are business partners…” “She/he is the best person I know.” “Yeah, I’d marry her / him in a heartbeat if I was allowed to.” “Yeah, that’s right, we fuck ourselves silly every night.” “Why yes, we are lovers.” Sometimes these things were said solemnly, at other times dripping with sarcasm. Letting other people know was dangerous. My tossing out Betty’s ex-husbands disproven claims as rebuttal was commonplace. 

Mom and dad figured it out, and they didn’t approve. But they loved us and so long as we discussed it in the hypothetical they were less uncomfortable. Our brother figured it out. He is as confused as we are as to why our parents disapprove. They don’t care so much what people think. I never had biological children with anyone, so the fact I never had any with Betty is moot. “Our kids,” my nephew and niece figured it out before we confirmed it.  


FME: What are the advantages and disadvantages of a consanguinamorous relationship with your sister?

There are real disadvantages in the discrimination consanguinamorous people face every day. For the most part nobody really cares whom anyone sleeps with. But it can easily be used for leverage. We made enough money to provide a good life for the kids. And their biological father is generous - in his own buying the cake and ice cream but not dinner kind of way - but it was made clear to Betty that had she tried to get a dollar out of him he would go after her for being unfit.

As stated my girlfriend and I invited my sister into our bed on many occasions after she split with her husband. We both like my girlfriend, she's our friend and we see her from time to time. We have a play dates together if the timing works out. I wouldn’t say that we were promiscuous at all; we both found the “perfect fit” early in life. We played naked pre-sexual games with one boy and three girls. 

We’ve had “actual grown-up sex” with a man and two women before Betty married, and with two men and two women afterward. Betty has had sex with one very insecure man whom I never had sex with - although I lie and tell everyone that I did because it really, really annoys him - that is only three-and-a-half men and four women, well under the Australian, Canadian, European, UK, and US average. 

In a perfect world there would not be status crimes. It isn’t the State's place to control people. Age is usually irrelevant when dealing with potential for causing harm to others. Race, ethnicity, national origin or degree of blood relation is not a factor in any reasonable accounting. Harmful and hurtful intentions and actions are. But status crimes are easy and provide leverage.


FME: Would you get legally married if you could?

We are truly happy because we have our soul mates. We don’t need a marriage certificate to be happy, although we don’t like being denied the right to obtain one.


FME: Do you consider yourself consanguinamorous in orientation, or could you be happy being with someone who isn't a close relative? What about your general sexual orientation

I could be satisfied but less happy with someone who loved me, but not unconditionally like Betty does. We tried “normal.” Looking at divorce statistics it’s apparent that lots of people find “normal” to be lacking.

I don't know that either of us are easily pigeonholed. Our primary emotional bond is to the other one. But not consanguine in general. We think that it's easier to develop and have unconditional love with a close family member than with a more distant family member or a non-related person. 

We have both had sex with persons of both genders, and think that we are probably primarily heterosexual because we are each other's "perfect match." But we could each see us being primarily homosexual if we were two brothers or two sisters. It's the person not the equipment.

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Clearly, these lovers were consenting adults who weren't hurting anyone, and yet they wouldn't even be able to exercise their basic human right to marry as things are now. They love each other and are happy, yet they are denied fundamental rights. They can't even be open about their love without risking prosecution!

Why should they be denied their rights? There’s no good reason.We need to recognize that all adults should be free to be with any and all consenting adults as they mutually consent, and part of doing that is adopting relationship rights for all, including full marriage equality sooner rather than later. People are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here. As you'll see, there are people from all walks of life, around the world, who are in consanguinamorous relationships.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.

If you want to be interviewed about your "forbidden" relationship, or that of someone you know, connect with me by checking under the "Get Connected" tab there at the top of the page or emailing me at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com or see here.

If you know someone who is in a relationship like this, please read this.

Thank you, Billy and Betty, for doing this interview about your consanguinamorous relationship! We wish you well in your relationship with each other!