Update on Secretly Married Couple

We have an update on a couple interviewed here, just in time for Father’s Day. They are expecting!

By the way, if you’ve had your interview published on Full Marriage Equality and want to provide an update, or you want to be interviewed about your “forbidden” relationship or that of someone you know, e-mail Keith at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com.

On with the update…

We have passed the first trimester with flying colours and a perfectly healthy mother to be! Lisa still walks lighter and with that cute bounce in her step! She is doing so well, hardly any morning sickness, but we have discovered that frying mushrooms in garlic makes her a little queasy! Who knew?

Our doctor has seen her twice now here at our place, a thorough examination and as I said, Lisa is healthy and happy...as am I.

Congratulations!

We wish you well on the addition to the family.

They have kept in contact since the original interview, and are doing well overall.

We need full marriage equality and relationship rights for all so that lovers like then won’t have to hide their love or the truth about their growing family.

The Secret of Siblings

We have another exclusive interview to bring you. 

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. Most can’t even be out of the closet or they’ll face persecution and prosecution under absurd incest laws, which, instead of focusing on abuse, also target consensual relationships.

The man interviewed below should be free to legally and publicly marry his lover, or simply be with her without having to hide, yet they can’t. Prejudice can be deadly. They are consenting adults; why should they have been denied their rights? In much of the world, they could be criminally prosecuted for loving each other this way, and might be persecuted severely in addition.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what he has to say about the love they share. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic, but whatever your reaction, should lovers like these be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

Also please note that someone you love, respect, and admire could be in a similar relationship right now. Should they be attacked and denied rights because of the "incest" label? 

*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe your background.

THIS INTERVIEW REMOVED AT THE REQUEST OF THE INTERVIEWEE.

You can read other interviews I have done here. As you'll see, there are people from all walks of life, around the world, who are in consanguinamorous relationships.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.

If you want to be interviewed about your "forbidden" relationship, or that of someone you know, connect with me by checking under the "Get Connected" tab there at the top of the page or emailing me at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com or on Wire messaging app at fullmarriageequality, X/Twitter at FullMEquality, or Facebook. I usually check for private/direct messages and respond in less than a day, so if I don't it might mean your message didn't get delivered.

If you know someone who is in a relationship that's anything like this, or "taboo" or "forbidden," please read this.

Consanguinamorous Youth

This blog is about equal rights for consenting adults.

But what about legal minors? It is dangerous to ignore that many legal minors experiment, explore, and get affectionate. I'm talking about age peers. I'm also addressing young people who have feelings for a parent, aunt, uncle, or other significantly older relative. If an older person is coercing you, or messing with you while you (try to) sleep, that's NOT what this is about. Don't let anyone abuse you!

Much of this entry on how consanguinamorous people can protect themselves is relevant, as can this entry on living together.

This essay is a result of someone anonymous contacting this blog's sister Tumblr to describe a situation he had experienced in his life and to ask if there are any resources to help people who are currently in the position he'd been in so many years ago.

A subsequent message was from a teacher who had to report minors who've revealed their experiences with consanguineous sex, due to mandatory reporting laws that apply to people in certain jobs.

What do you do if you're in a consanguineous relationship or you think you have a consanguinamorous orientation, but you're under the age of consent or not a legal adult?

Please note: Most of this entry is going to be strictly about how things are and practical situations, not about the morality of any given situation or actions. While we welcome all adults and anyone struggling due to prejudice against their gender identity, sexual orientation, or relationships, this entry is NOT endorsing or advocating underage sex or anything else illegal.

Falsely Invoking Science to Justify Bigotry

The "genetics argument" against consanguineous sex and marriage is usually a smokescreen that misuses science to justify bigotry.  There are some people sincerely concerned about children born to consanguineous parents (many of whom would have their concerns eased with a little education on the matter) but most of the people who use the "What about the children?" argument are simply trying to excuse their prejudice, because it sounds better than "I don't like the idea of it."

Ask someone who invokes Discredited Argument #18 if they drop opposition when it comes to a relationship that will not create biological children, such as two cisgender brothers, or a sister with a brother who has had a vasectomy, or siblings over the age of 60. Most will be stumped or will say no, they still oppose such relationships, perhaps citing another Discredited Argument, probably #1 or 3.

Another way of exposing this as a smokescreen is to ask them if they support the same restrictions on an unrelated heterosexual couple in which the woman is 40 years of age.

The fact is, we don't prevent people with known, serious genetic diseases, or who have lived all of their lives in the same neighborhood with pollutants known to cause birth defects, or who have taken medications known to cause birth defects from dating, having sex, marrying, having children, etc., so why deny rights to consanguineous lovers who are more likely to have healthy children together or won't be having children at all?

Everyone knows happy, healthy, intelligent, adorable children born to close relatives, whether they know it or not, and whether the children themselves know of their true biological ancestry or not. I can point to such people whose parents were close relatives. Should they have not been born?

Most children born to consanguineous parents are healthy. That's a fact. We don't hear about that much. Instead, "horror" stories are sensationalized... where a tyrannical patriarch or set of people isolated their family and abused children, engaging in deliberate inbreeding over generations. The problems resulting are often caused by the lack of prenatal care, lack of medical treatment, poor nutrition, physical abuse, substance abuse, poor hygiene, a polluted environment, etc. That's as far removed from what this blog is about (loving relationships between consenting adults) as possible. Cases like that do not justify denying consanguinamorous adults their right to be together in whatever way they want.

Bigotry and restrictions against consanguineous lovers predate a good understanding of genetics. It is just that people now misapply facts about genetics to cover for their dislike of the idea of consanguinamory.

A Sister Gives Her Thoughts on Their New Life

Sometimes, after this blog publishes an interview, a partner of the interviewee or someone else connected to them wants to add some more from their perspective. This time, the lover of the man interviewed in this recent entry is adding her perspective. Read that interview or read it again, as it will be helpful for reading what this woman has to say below.

If you have any heart at all, you have to see how outrageous it is to deny this woman and her lover their rights.

*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY:  Did you want to add to how your brother described you?

Samaira: The only thing I can add to is that we have a never-give-up approach to life.


FME: What is your take on your childhood, family life, and discovering your sexuality?

A New Life With True Love

We have another exclusive interview to bring you. 

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. Most can’t even be out of the closet or they’ll face persecution and prosecution under absurd incest laws, which, instead of focusing on abuse, also target consensual relationships.

The man interviewed below should be free to legally and publicly marry his lover, or simply be with her without having to hide, yet they can’t. Prejudice can be deadly. They are consenting adults; why should they have been denied their rights? In much of the world, they could be criminally prosecuted for loving each other this way, and might be persecuted severely in addition.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what he has to say about the love they share. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic, but whatever your reaction, should lovers like these be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

Also please note that someone you love, respect, and admire could be in a similar relationship right now. Should they be attacked and denied rights because of the "incest" label? 

*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY:  Describe yourself.

Vishal: We were born in India. My name is Vishal, I'm a 26 year-old man, and my sister’s name is Samaira, she's a 25 year-old woman.

We both are in IT industry in Germany. We chose it because it is a high paying industry. Our high salaries enables us to live a comfortable life here. Right now we are able to save little over half of our salaries, which we invest, because we pool our resources. If everything goes well, then I can get a promotion soon, so our future looks good in Germany.

There is a whole tale behind how we ended up being in IT industry in Germany. We grew up in a well-off family in India. We have also an older brother there. We have a shared hobby of playing tennis. But I also like to go to CrossFit and she likes to play video games. We also like to read non-Fiction books. But due to time constraints nowadays we can only read one book in four to five months.

Should Consanguinamorous Lovers Tell the Children?

Some consanguinamorous lovers raise children, whether those children are the genetic offspring of both of them or not.

At the suggestion of someone I was discussing this with, I'm asking YOU, dear readers, for your opinions.

Do you think consang lovers who are raising children should tell the children of their relation?

For example, an adult and their parent or adult sibling, uncle, or aunt are living like spouses or at least partners/lovers. The children will know they sleep together, are romantically affectionate, etc., even that they have children together (maybe them!) Because this family is living where people don't know of their genetic relation and assume the home consists of a "regular" couple with kids, there is little chance the children will find out of the genetic relation, at least while they are young. Should the children know that the people they know as their parents or parent/stepparent are close genetic relatives?

What do you suggest? Should the children be told? If so, when and how?

I have my own opinions, but I will post those at a later time.

You can comment below, including anonymously. You can also email your opinions to fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com

Anyone who wants to explain their opinion is welcome, but if you have been involved in a situation like this or personally know of a similar situation, or are educated in child development, please mention that in your comment.

A Growing Family Denied Their Rights

We have another exclusive interview to bring you. 

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. Most can’t even be out of the closet or they’ll face persecution and prosecution under absurd incest laws, which, instead of focusing on abuse, also target consensual relationships.

The lover interviewed below should be free to legally and publicly marry his spouse, or simply be together without having to hide, yet they can’t. Prejudice can be deadly. They are consenting adults; why should they have been denied their rights? In much of the world, including where they live, they could be criminally prosecuted for loving each other this way, and might be persecuted severely in addition.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what he has to say about the love they share. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic, but whatever your reaction, should lovers like these be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

Also please note that someone you love, respect, and admire could be in a similar relationship right now. Should they be attacked and denied rights because of the "incest" label? 

NOTE: This interview has a brief amount of sexually explicit description. Separately, there is also mention of a sexual assault.

*****


FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourself.

Adam: My name is Adam, 25, and I am a Software Engineer. My mother's name is Bethany, 39, and she is also a Software Engineer. I was not conceived under pleasant circumstances. When my mother was 13, she was raped. My grandparents refused to let her get an abortion as they were religious nuts. Nine months later, I was born.

They Loved Each Other

We are very fortunate that exclusive interviews can be featured on this blog with people who've been denied their rights, and scores of such interviews have been. Life being what it is, not all of the interviews can depict happy results. If you need to avoid reading about people being abused, to the point of suicide, because of their love, then you should consider skipping this interview. 

This blog is one way for people to honestly present their experiences, feelings, observations, and thoughts, which is helpful overall even if some of those thoughts don't fit in smoothly with the goals of this blog. There is diversity in the interviews presented on this blog. The voices of the oppressed should be heard.

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted.

The man interviewed below should've be free to legally marry his lover, or simply to be together with her as a couple without having to hide, yet they couldn't do that, and others like them today still can't. Prejudice can be deadly. They weren't hurting anyone; why should they have been denied their rights? In much of the world, including where they were living, they could've been criminally prosecuted for their love, and they were severely persecuted.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what this man has to say about the love he shared with his partner. You may think their relationship was interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic and romantic, but whatever your reaction, should lovers like these be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

Also please note that someone you love, respect, and admire could be in a similar relationship right now. Should they be attacked and denied rights because of the "incest" label?

***Mild descriptions of sexuality are included in this interview.***


*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourself.

Anonymous Man: I'm an American man of I assume entirely north-west European descent. I am average height for my nationality and ethnicity, auburn hair, hazel eyes, pale skin with a pinkish hue and no freckles.

I was a software engineer for about seven years, but I can't get past the HR barrier anymore so I'm trying to preserve my savings until the lockdowns and economic/supply-chain disturbances end elsewhere in the world so I can leave the USA, probably for good. I've been replaced by various visa workers at literally every tech job I've had. I had to train my replacements - as much as that's possible given the caliber of scabs brought in - at each job to get my severance package. Right now I work as little as possible at odd jobs doing maintenance and grunt work: digging ditches, shoveling asphalt, mowing lawns. I can pay my rent with the hours they give me for now.

I'd say that I'm upper middle class but that really doesn't mean much when it's impossible to have a career, so on second thought I'm outside the class system altogether. My goal in life is to take everything I can from the system which betrayed me, and to give nothing back if possible.

I live in the Pacific Northwest, and while I like the rain and cool climate I can't afford to live here.

I don't have any living siblings. I had a sister but she killed herself about 17 years ago.

I don't know if I have any children.

My hobbies are various methods by which I cope with my economic dispossession: wandering in the woods and laying down to stare the sky, playing video games when they decide to not crash, working out enough to not get too disgusting, and generally killing time until I can leave.

For Consanguinamorists Considering Parenting

I was asked anonymously on Tumblr about the health of children from consanguineous parents, why there is a taboo about this, and what advice I have for a mother and son having a baby.  My answers mostly apply to any consanguinamorous parents.

Consanguinamory and Reproduction

One of the most common reasons given to object to the right to consanguineous relationships is what I call the "mutant baby" argument. Even some people who support the right to consanguinamory and have even engaged in consanguineous sex themselves join with bigots in being strongly against close relatives having children together because of prejudiced backlash or the increased risk of birth defects.

In regards to the prejudiced backlash, the answer is not to let bigots have their way. It is for bigots to lose their power to bully, prosecute, and break up homes. Don't want children of consanguineous parents to have a hard time? Do not give them a hard time.

In regards to the increased risk of birth defects, scientific understanding is often lacking.

Most sexual encounters do not result in a birth. Many people who have relationships or marry never have genetic children together; some people in consanguinamorous relationships choose not to. So, we must recognize the differences between sex, marriage, parenting, and reproduction, and not ban the first three because of concerns about the last one.

But let's deal with that last one.

Most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant birth defects or other genetic problems; while births to other parents do sometimes have birth defects. There are happy, healthy, bright, attractive people born to close relatives who are productive members of society. We all know some, whether we know it or not, and whether they know it or not. It is that common. (Sometimes, they were conceived by an abuser, but often, not by an abuser but by mutual lovers.) We don’t prevent other people from marrying or deny them their reproductive rights based on increased odds of passing along a genetic problem or inherited disease. For example, it is entirely legal in the US and most other places for someone with Huntington's Disease to date, have sex, marry, and have genetic children. How can such rights be denied to people who are genetically healthy, simply because they are close relatives?

It is true that in general, children born to consanguineous parents have an increased chance of genetic problems than those born to nonconsanguineous parents, but the odds are still minimal. (UPDATE: Please see this wonky elaboration written by a Friend of FME.) There are US states and there are countries where consanguinamory is not illegal or at least it isn't prosecuted. Sweden will legally marry half-siblings in some circumstances. A comparison of the rate of genetic problems in these places to places that criminalize and actively prosecute consanguinamory reveals no discernible increase in genetic problems in the places that embrace this relationship right.

If a natural talent or gift runs in the family, the children born to consanguineous parents will be more likely to inherit and manifest that beneficial result as well; a birth benefit. But there are increased odds of problem with births to older parents, too. There's no stigma assigned to that, and it isn't illegal for older people to date, have sex, marry, and have genetic children together.

Anyone concerned about these things should have genetic testing and counseling. People who are not close relatives can pass along health problems, too.

The "birth defects" argument also implies that people with disabilities or some other birth defect are living lives so terrible that they should never have been born at all. Yet, there are many such people who are leading happy, fulfilling, productive lives.

But a current problem, in some (not all) cases, is that in giving birth, consanguineous parents will be outing themselves to someone who is prejudiced, and there will now be evidence of their (in some places) illegal love that can be used against them.

There are consanguinamorous parents happily raising their healthy children together. But some consanguinamorous relationships face very real threats. Again, the answer is to stop the persecution and prosecution. There is no good reason to deny consenting adults their equal protection of having their relationship and reproductive rights.

Consanguinamorous or not, anyone engaging in heterosexual intercourse should be aware of the possibility of pregnancy, the various forms of birth control and other options available, and the realities if pregnancy, birth, and raising children.

UPDATE: Jane has a great essay on these topics here.

With all of that in mind, let's look at this thread on a consensual incest discussion board. (The discussion is explicit, so if you have a problem with that, you are warned.)

carebear82 wrote…

Females Who Mate With Their Brothers and Fathers

Fruit flies... we're talking about fruit flies. Below is the news I found on my own, but first is this take on it by Alex B. Berezow at realclearscience.com, provided by a kind friend of FME. Don't be shy about calling my attention to anything relevant to this blog.

The article says "inbreeding" isn't all bad, despite popular notions...

If acted upon by natural selection, bad mutations can be wiped out more easily, thus speeding the rate of evolution. And for some reason, third- and fourth-cousins that marry each other in Iceland have more children.

But what about the fruit flies?

When given a choice between a brother or a non-brother, females preferred mating with their brother. But, males did not prefer their sister. They simply tolerated mating with their sister, picking them roughly half the time. Similarly, females showed no preference when choosing between their father or a non-father, picking their dad about 50% of the time. Males wooed their moms, but no successful mating occurred.

Interesting.

The authors conclude that inbreeding occurs in fruit flies because it may increase their inclusive fitness.

The  article's author makes bigoted comments to make it clear he is disgusted, or at least wants us to think he's disgusted.

Source: Loyau A, Cornuau JH, Clobert J, Danchin É (2012). "Incestuous Sisters: Mate Preference for Brothers over Unrelated Males in Drosophila melanogaster." PLoS ONE 7(12): e51293. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0051293

I am compelled to point out that consaguinamory and consanguineous sex or marriage do not necessarily mean inbreeding, and most children born to close relatives are healthy. And, as I often mention, what happens with other species, especially ones as different as fruit flies, doesn't necessarily apply to humans. But it is fun to have information like this handy when someone tries to tell you that consanguinamory is unnatural. Funny thing, is, none of these people who say this go a single day of their lives without unnatural things.

Here's the journal piece I had already found on this...

We investigated male and female mate preferences with respect to relatedness in the fruit fly D. melanogaster. Experiments offered the choice between a first order relative (full-sibling or parent) and an unrelated individual with the same age and mating history. We found that females significantly preferred mating with their brothers, thus supporting inbreeding preference. Moreover, females did not avoid mating with their fathers, and males did not avoid mating with their sisters, thus supporting inbreeding tolerance. Our experiments therefore add empirical evidence for inbreeding preference, which strengthens the prediction that inbreeding tolerance and preference can evolve under specific circumstances through the positive effects on inclusive fitness.

The information is extensive, complete with many references. It is good reading for those of you who enjoy scientific journals.

Science Again Says Consanguinamory is Natural

Time and time again, we see that science and appeals to nature actually back allowing people to have the relationships to which they mutually agree. Bigots who try to use appeals to nature to interfere with relationship and sexual rights are embarrassed over and over again.

From scitechdaily.com...

“People assume that animals should avoid mating with a relative when given the chance,” says Raïssa de Boer, researcher in zoology at Stockholm University. “But evolutionary theory has been telling us that animals should tolerate, or even prefer, mating with relatives under a broad range of conditions for more than four decades.”

This isn't so surprising to some. Part of the natural spectrum of sexual diversity includes a consanguinamorous orientation.

The study provides a synthesis of 139 experimental studies in 88 species spanning 40 years of research, settling the longstanding debate between theoretical and empirical expectations about if and when animals should avoid inbreeding.

“We address the ‘elephant in the room’ of inbreeding avoidance studies by overturning the widespread assumption that animals will avoid inbreeding whenever possible,” says Raïssa de Boer.

The study demonstrates that animals rarely attempt to avoid mating with relatives, a finding that was consistent across a wide range of conditions and experimental approaches.

Consensual incest has always been a part of life. That includes humans. Most children born to close relatives are healthy.

“We compared studies that asked if humans avoid inbreeding when presented with pictures of faces that were digitally manipulated to make the faces look either more or less related to studies that used similar approaches in other animals. Just like other animals, it turns out that there is no evidence that humans prefer to avoid inbreeding,” says Raïssa de Boer.

Of course, attraction often involves more than appearance. But along with the information about other animals, this refutes the idea that consanguineous mating is unnatural and naturally repulsive. 

If researchers could study consanguinamory in humans, these findings would be further bolstered. 

There is no good reason to deny consenting adults the relationships to which they mutually agree, including full marriage equality. 

It's Futile to Play Relationship Cop - Assist People Instead

The main focus of this blog is on rights for all adults to be themselves and have their romantic, sexual and social relationships with other consenting adults, and marry, to form families if they want to, and raise children if they want to. We have pointed out repeatedly that most sexual encounters do not result in a birth. Many people who have relationships or marry never have genetic children together; some people in consanguinamorous relationships choose not to. So, we must recognize the differences between sex, marriage, parenting, and reproduction.

Consanguineous marriages have happened all throughout history all over the planet, and in many places, there are still customary. You have some in your family history, it is almost a certainty. Here's a study under the heading of "Science and society: genetic counseling and customary consanguineous marriage."

Consanguineous marriage is customary in many societies, but leads to an increased birth prevalence of infants with severe recessive disorders. It is therefore often proposed that consanguineous marriage should be discouraged on medical grounds. However, several expert groups have pointed out that this proposal is inconsistent with the ethical principles of genetic counselling, overlooks the social importance of consanguineous marriage and is ineffective. Instead, they suggest that the custom increases the possibilities for effective genetic counseling, and recommend a concerted effort to identify families at increased risk, and to provide them with risk information and carrier testing when feasible.

• DOI: 10.1038/nrg754

This article was published in Nat Rev Genet and referenced in Journal of Clinical Research and Bioethics

There needs to be more studies of consanguinamorous relationships and how counselors, therapists, and others can serve them, whether or not the lovers plan to have children. Trying to discourage consenting adults from continuing their relationships is mostly wasteful and often cruel, and in insult to their fundamental rights.

Update on a Father and Daughter

Last year, we published an interview with a father in a consanguinamorous relationship with his daughter, and then another interview with the daughter.

Recently, the daughter gave birth to their third child together. 

The mother and child are doing fine.

Congratulations to all!

It's appreciated when people keep in contact. If you'd like to reach out to Keith or get back in touch with Keith, you're very much welcome to do so.

We Get Letters

We get comments that are worth pointing out here. You can leave comments below the entries, including anonymously, or you can write to Keith privately.

A comment was left after an entry on a son's choice in media content.  Anonymous wrote about his love for his mother...

I have had these feelings since I was 14 turning 15. 

I just turned 23 and my mother will be forty in three months. 

This has been going on since late June, a few days before the Fourth of July, a few months after her divorce from her 2nd marriage and my end of duty in the Air Force. 

I had moved back in with my mother after four years. Though initially shocked by discovering my feelings, she  realized this was was something she wanted, too; that my feelings for her were something that no other man had for her or could have for her. The feeling of love as a mother and son, best friends and lovers; especially as her son returning back to her womb. 

To have all this and live as a man and woman together is very powerful, very deep, and intense, something that we could only experience with each other. 
It made her realize that I was always giving subtle hints in a respectful way. As much as I wanted my mother as my woman, I understood that it may not happen. It lead her to act upon her feelings and initiate her seduction. She realized after seeing my social media and reading my desires that it was something that we could do with positive consequences. Even her seduction of me was very positive and deliberately slow.
I am glad it was, that she made me her man "sexually". I was definitely old enough and really knew what I wanted from her. Though she is an extremely attractive woman, she had never found a deep romantic connection with my father, boyfriends, or her second husband, which ended in a very bad divorce.

This and social media made her available and consenting to this, despite the taboo of a mother and son. 

We are willing to live a secret life for this and she tells me that if she became pregnant by me, she would keep the baby. I am willing to make that sacrifice of not having a child. Yet, I do want want one with her and if she really feels this strongly in the near future, I would be willing to have a son or a daughter that is my half brother or sister. The beauty of this happening is worth the risk for her, she has told me many times. 

Like I said it took a while for her to accept this.Yet, if you could see us we have no regrets. Actually,  she wishes she had the same mindset that I had many years ago to have made me her woman years ago. 

It was right after my military boot camp graduation. She had made the trip to see me graduate and we were going home together. During that period she was so proud of me and was giving me extra kisses and hugs that were longer and closer. It was at a time right before she met her second husband. She was very much alone. It was the first time see saw me sexually. She confesses that if I would have gone after her, she surely would have given in at that period of time.

What About Donor-Conceived People Getting Together?

The National Infertility and Adoption Education Organization has a Question and Answer about “Accidental Incest between Donor Conceived People.”

Q: How worried should I be about inadvertent partnering of two donor conceived half siblings from the same donor?

The main worry is an artificial one... undue criminalization of such relationships.

From their answer...

While the fear is understandable, many professionals believe the fear is not well founded. For example, we asked this question to Ole Schou, founder and CEO of Cryos International sperm banks, who has researched and spoke to professional groups on this issues. [Note that he is not a native English speaker.]

“There is no reason to be concerned about accidental incest between donor conceived children/adults. The risk is extremely low. Professionals call the risk consanguinity or inbreeding. It is also described as incest. However, this word is surrounded by many taboos and connected to something morally wrong, and is not the best word to use in this situation.

I agree.

The concern is for the increase in recessive DNA disorders in children where the parents DNA are too closely matched. Remember that all humans have plenty of these recessive genes (C.J. Bell 2011).

However, the risk may only be increased some few percentage in comparison to normal procreation. So this is not much. It is more a problem if it continues generation after generation.

That is what we’ve been saying.

This is not relevant for donors as it is only a one generation issue.

Further, the risk that two half siblings from the same donor meet each other is generally very little if the sperm bank distribute internationally or worldwide.

It might be tempting for someone working for a sperm bank to claim that if a donor-conceived person walks into a room with 100 people in it, one conceived from the same donor, and chooses one person to approach, there is only a 1% chance it will be their half-sibling (if we’re talking egg or sperm donation, full sibling if we’re talking donated embryos). However, there odds are probably going to be much higher because of the shared genes. That is one reason Genetic Sexual Attraction happens. Sharing genes can cause people to be strongly attracted to each other. This is going to happen more and more as more and more people, for reasons including donation as well as many other reasons, are raised apart from close genetic relatives.

Donors are often screened for genetic problems, so that is a plus for avoiding problems.

Anyway, it is interesting to see what they had to say about risks to children born of consanguineous parents.

Searches That Bring People Here

Below are some searches that have brought people to this blog recently. Searches are often written as questions. If you have questions, you can always submit them by commenting below (you can comment anonymously, if you'd like). You can also email questions to fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com.

We also get a lot of searches for questions directly answered by entries in our FAQ tag. But let's take a look at some of the search phrases and see if we can share some helpful information.

do sisters experiment with each other

Yes. Sisters do experiment and explore with each other. Some do it while young, some of them never stop, and some start later in life. Some sisters go on to have spousal style relationships with each other. It is very common for sisters to experiment with each other while young if they are close in age.

If you are a sister experimenting with your sister, know that you're not alone. This has gone on for literally all of human history and you know others who are doing the same.

can dr. find out mom is incest pregnant

DNA tests are possible, and from those tests, it may be possible to determine if the pregnant person conceived with a close relative; especially if your mom's DNA is also tested. Some of the tests carry medical risks and a pregnant woman can decline them. Medical privacy laws might be overtaken by "mandatory reporting" laws in a specific location, so if you are where sex is illegal between you, don't admit to engaging in such affection.

If you are looking forward to a baby, congratulations to you. Most children born to close relatives are healthy. I'd welcome an email from you.

adult siblings arouse each other

This is much more common than people think. Intentional or not, sometimes siblings arouse each other.

us supreme court rules brother sister marriage

Unfortunately, this is not yet a real story. It was something that made some ripples, but it isn't real. Not yet.

Can step siblings marry

Laws vary from place to place, but in general, I do believe the answer is yes. It is very important to know who stepsiblings are. If "Person A" has a parent who has married the parent - who isn't Person A's parent - of "Person B," Person A and Person B are stepsiblings. This is not to be confused with half siblings, who share a genetic parent.

If you want to marry your stepsibling, congrats on your love and we wish you the best. Please feel free to get in contact.

playing doctor with brother or sister

This is very, very common. It isn't necessarily a sign that there is a problem, as long as no coercion or injury is involved. Most such siblings aren't consanguinamorous post-puberty, although some are.

people who married their aunts

In the US, "aunt" can formally mean:

1) Your parent's sister
2) Your parent's sibling's spouse

Informally, she can be:

3) a more distant relative, or a friend of your parents or family.

Where someone can only be married to one person at a time, number 2 is not possible unless there has been a divorce or death Most US states have laws against number 1. There's no law, but often prejudices, against number 3. However, involvement with an aunt is common enough that everyone knows someone who is or has been. If you've found happiness with your aunt, good for you! It would be great to hear from you via email.

middle age mom in love with her brother

This does happen. Whether it's been an enduring state or a recent development, there are middle aged mothers in love with a brother. Sometimes, after someone has been through relationships and even marriages, they realize that the person they want most is their own sibling. There are also "reunion GSA" situations in which a long-lost (half) sibling is discovered. Being in love is very common in such situations.

If you're in or know about such a situation, I'd welcome contact from you.

mature siblings incest

You're never too old to enjoy consanguineous affection if you mutually agree, even if you have no history of doing so. Are you involved? Again, your emails are welcome.

are polygamy wives bisexual

Of course there are women in polygamous marriages who are bisexual in orientation. Polygamy means being married to more than one person, regardless of gender. It could be a woman married to a man and a woman. What the person doing that search probably meant was whether or not there are women in traditional, polygynous marriages (meaning, women who are married to the same man) who are also having sex with each other. Many people in traditional polygynous marriages are members of a religion that might officially oppose being LGBTQ, but whether or not that's the case, some of the wives in such marriages are bisexual in orientation. Some might be closeted lesbians. There is sex going on between some of them, and that has always happened.

If you're in such a marriage, please email me to talk about it.

This last one is a bit sexually explicit, so if you don't want to read something sexually explicit, move on!

Mothers, Sons, and Children

Someone asked at this blog's sister Tumblr about mothers and sons having children.

What About the Children?

Jane has released the results of her study on consanguinamory and reproduction. Kudos to Jane for yet another useful update!