Monday, January 4, 2016

Another Woman Denied Her Rights

I've done scores of exclusive interviews with lovers, most of whom are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are, by law, denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. It is a privilege to get a glimpse into these relationships consider forbidden by unjust laws or by common public prejudices. Most of them want to marry, whether immediately or not, and it is such a sad thing that anyone would stand in their way.

Below, you will meet "Jane Doe."
She's an adult and should be free to decide for herself whether to marry and with whom she should get married. She longs to restore romance to a relationship in which the romance was ended because they faced discrimination and prejudice for their love, and had to hide the truth from everyone in their life. They weren't hurting anyone; why should they be denied in the full measure of their love and be denied their rights?

Read the interview below and see for yourself what Jane has to say. You may think her relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it incredibly erotic, but whatever your reaction, should adult lovers be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights?


FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourself.

Jane Doe: I'm just an average sort of person, I've worked in normal kind of jobs and earned an average sort of wage. I'm reasonably attractive but not exactly what you'd call model material, and I'm in my early 30s. As for hobbies, I like online games and video games, just to chill out for a couple of hours. I've never been married.

FME: How would you describe your sexual orientation and your relationship orientation?

Jane: Heterosexual, monogamist and consanguinamorous. I've had exsanguineous relationships, too, of course, but it just never felt right for me because it feels incomplete without the family bond being there too.

FME: You currently live with...?

At the moment, I am a single mum of one and I'm the only adult living there.

FME: You are in a romantic & sexual relationship with your biological father?

Not now, but I used to be in a romantic and sexual relationship with my dad. We broke up a few years back out of fear of being discovered, and because he had it in his head that we were doing something "wrong" by being together, a feeling I do not share. We were happy, we were compatible and very much in love. It's just a shame that my dad never got over the taboo enough to stay with me.

FME: What kind of relationship did you have while you were growing up? What was family life like? What was your childhood like?

I'd say my childhood was pretty average really, good bits and bad bits as any normal family. There was a lot of arguing and hostility between my parents and they really should have had a divorce because it often made a bad atmosphere for a day or two after an argument. On the whole, they were normal parents except for their marital problems. I always spent more time with my dad than with my mum because my mum and I never really got along all that well; a personality clash I guess. It was a shame, but you cannot force a person to like you and get along with you.

FME: Do you have any children together, and if so, how are they?

No, we were always very very careful about contraception because we feared genetic defects. I did have a child with another man after my dad I broke up. I broke up with this other man after a couple of years, though, because the relationship had gone sour and I didn't want to repeat my parents' mistakes and bring my child up in the middle of constant bickering.

FME: How did sexual affection become a part of your relationship with your father? Was it a sudden event or a gradual process? Did you know ahead of time it was going to turn sexual or was it more spontaneous? Is it clear who made the first move?

Well, I remember the first day I saw him in that light because I remember thinking, "Why couldn't more blokes be just like him, easy to get along with, approachable, chilled out?" We just understood each other on so many levels. It took a few weeks before we kissed for the first time, and that was completely spontaneous, but I think on some level we both knew what was happening between us. It only took a couple of months after that for us to become full sexual partners. As for who made the first move, we both did, it was something that just happened.

FME: Can you describe your feelings during that?

I was trying to get my head around my feelings, because at the time I thought that we might have been wrong or perverted or something, although it certainly didn't feel that way. It's only since I've been able to speak to other people on the Internet that I've realized that my feelings and thoughts were normal and common. It was a confusing time to say the least. I wanted to be like everyone else and be able to tell people that I'd found the right guy, but with him being my dad, that was impossible. It was awful having to bottle so much up, because I was excited about the new relationship and over the moon happy. Ever tried to suppress happy? It's not easy. I knew he was my one.

FME: Before this had you ever thought this would be possible or enjoyable; did you have any opinion one way or the other about close relatives or family members being together? Do you, or have you had feelings like this for any other close family members whether they are genetic relatives or not? Any prior experience with family?

Before it happened, I'd actually internalized society's expectations and views, without even realizing that I'd done so. I just assumed that only screwed up people would do such a thing, and never did I suspect I was a likely candidate for such an experience. Needless to say, when things began to move in that direction, I soon changed my attitude. In every other respect we're normal people and I think this could potentially happen to anyone if they are capable of feeling attraction towards a family member. I feel some attraction towards my uncle, too. He's just unbelievably attractive... at least I think so, but he is happily married with small children and I would never want to break up their home, so I won't even go there.

FME: How would you describe the lovemaking when you most recently were active with each other? Taboo? Natural? Especially erotic? Some people say familial eroticism is inherently kinky, but I have found that for many it doesn't feel kinky.

Got to say the sex was incredible, not because of any kinkiness, but because our bond was so strong. It was almost like our souls merged; it was that deep. I've never felt anything like that since we broke up. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed the sexual experience with other men, but it just does not compare, because it's not the same. The act of sex is the same, but the feelings behind it are completely different. That's how I know for sure that I am definitely consanguinamarous; I can't feel anywhere near that depth of intensity with anyone else. It's so completely natural.

FME: Describe your relationship now, and when you were most recently active with each other. was it family-with-benefits, an affair, girlfriend-boyfriend, a marriage, what?

Well, it started as an affair behind my mums back. Not something I feel proud of, but it's the truth. After she was gone, we were more like lovers, at least when my siblings were not around. Since we've broken up we've remained good friends, but we keep some distance because it would be so easy to get back together again, and I don't think he would want that, even though I definitely do. I still see him as my dad, but he is also my ex-partner. The roles of being family and lover are not incompatible, in fact they go together as well as biscuits and cheese in my experience. Contrary to popular public opinion, breaking up does not result in catastrophic family meltdown. The father/daughter aspect of our relationship is completely intact.

FME: Were you in a closed relationship with each other?

When we first got together we were in an open relationship, because he didn't want to hold me back. That said, I never actually bothered with other men at the time because I was happy. He was with mum, but their sex life had become pretty nonexistent anyway. So even though we were both happy for each other to have other partners, we never actually did. I've had "normal" relationships since we split up, but never told any of them about this part of my past. Its too risky and most men just would not understand how or why this could happen.

FME: Does anyone in your life know the full, true history of your relationship with your father and how did they find out? What kind of steps, if any, have you had to take to keep your privacy?

Nobody knows, and I intend to keep it that way. We had to be so careful about privacy because if the wrong person ever found out we'd both end up getting arrested, which is ridiculous, really.

FME: Having to hide the full nature of your relationship from some people can be a disadvantage. Can you describe how that has been? Are there any other disadvantages? Conversely, do you think consanguineous relationships have some advantages and some things better than unrelated lovers?

That aspect is awful. For us it felt like a cloud of doom hanging over us. Apart from the secrecy, there is no other disadvantage I can think of from these types of relationships, and that disadvantage wouldn't even be there if people understood what these relationships really are about. I'd say that consanguineous relationships have some special advantages, like knowing the other person more completely before committing to a relationship, they tend to be more deep. I've spoken to many online who feel this way too.

FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship? What's your reply to those who would say that this is one of you preying on the other and that you can’t truly consent? For example, that a father must have groomed his daughter for this, or he must have physically overpowered you and forced himself on you?

I just want them to open their minds and hearts to us. We're not freaks, we're not perverts, we're regular people just like them but for this one little difference. For those who think that there is grooming in parent/offspring relationships, that wasn't the case for me, or in fact any number of others. This is something that happens as a result of mutual feelings, and we don't enter into these relationships lightly. People who are old enough to consent to sex, are old enough to consent to it with any other consenting adult. To be honest, I find the idea of being unable to consent just because I'm his offspring pretty insulting. I'm hardly a weak character and he is about as laid back as you can get.

FME: Can you think of anything that would make relationships like this inherently wrong?

Absolutely not, the "wrongness" comes from perception, misperception based on misinformation about consanguineous relationships, in this case. There is a hell of a lot of hysteria about the subject in my opinion, because people go bonkers whenever they hear about such stories in the media. Rarely do people stop to actually think about the harm that misperceptions do.

FME: If you could have legally married, and that included protections against discrimination, harassment, etc., would you?

God yes, I'd have married him. He was my soulmate, still is in truth, even though we are apart.

FME: What advice do you have for someone who may be experiencing these feelings for a relative or family member, especially a father or daughter?

I would advise them to tread carefully at first, and be sure that it's what you really want, because there are a lot of people out there who just will not understand, especially in countries where it is illegal. Always put the family relationship first; the romance is an addition to, and a deepening of, the family bond. It isn't separate.

Spend some time discussing things with others online and sort out your feelings, but be wary of porn sites because you won't find what you're looking for so much in terms of intelligent discussion or real advice from those of us who have lived these amazing experiences. You're more likely to find masturbational drivel written by those who think it's a kink rather than a sexual orientation. If you want to be together, don't let anyone or anything make you feel wrong or broken. You're normal. Be true to yourself and be who you truly are. Your love is worth no less than anyone else's.

FME: What advice do you have for family members and friends who think or know that relatives they know are having these feelings for each other?

First of all, don't panic and flip out, and don't assume that they are sick or anything. They're the same people you've always known. Their sexuality just isn't what you expected it to be. It should be no different than finding out that your relative is gay. Also, don't think that because they're consanguinamarous that they'll automatically want to have sex with any and all family members. That's not the case. Just as straight people don't want to bed every member of the opposite sex, or gay people don't want to bed every member of the same sex, consanguineous people don't want to bed their whole family. Like in all other relationships, the mutual attraction has to be there, otherwise nothing happens. Whatever you do, don't get the police, it's really not helpful or necessary.

FME: Have you met in-person or do you know anyone else who has experience with consanguinamory or consanguineous sex?

No, I've always considered that too risky. You never know who might be a cop.

FME: Any plans for the future?

Not specifically, but I do hope one day my dad comes back home to me. I'm not going to bother again with dating because exsanguineous relationships just do not feel right for me.

FME: Anything else to add?

I just want to say you're doing marvelous work raising awareness of these issues with your website, because this needs to be more out in the open. At the very least, so that people going through these experiences know that they aren't alone and that they can talk to others about it. It's society's attitude towards us that causes the harm, not the relationships themselves.


There you have it. An independent woman who wasn't hurting anyone and yet faces discrimination and denial of their rights simply for loving another adult. They were happy and in love, yet they were denied their fundamental right to marry. They could be still be criminally prosecuted in many places because or ridiculous laws interfering with consensual adult relationships. Who was the victim of their love?

Why should they be denied their rights? There’s no good reason.We need to recognize that all adults should be free to be with any and all consenting adults as they mutually consent, and part of doing that is adopting relationship rights for all, including full marriage equality sooner rather than later. People are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this
If you want to be interviewed about your "forbidden" relationship, connect with me by checking under the "Get Connected" tab there at the top of the page, or if you're on a mobile device, click here.

If you know someone who is in a relationship like this, please read this.

Thank you to Jane Doe for doing this interview! We wish you well and hope your intergenerational consanguinamorous relationship is returned to full intimacy.
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  1. That was a fantastic read, thankyou for sharing that, though I may sound strange, I find that to be a beautiful love story, it's just a shame that it had to end for you.

    Admittedly, I found some relief in this story, as my sister and I have recently split up in a similar fashion, I was worried the relationship as siblings couldn't stand, it's nice to know there is hope. :)

    I would very much like to be with my sister again, no law in place could tell me what I experienced was wrong and like you, it's pretty insulting to be told "your a grown man You cannot consent" what a farce.

    My sister is my soul mate and she always will be, I find it sad that like you, any relationship that I may have in the future just won't compare to the relationship that I had with her, that bond for some is just far too strong and beyond all comparison.

    I hope your dad one day may reach out to you and decide it is worth the risk of being together.

    It's a crying shame that the law has to interfere in this way, I wish you all the best for the future.

    1. If consanguinamory is your natural sexual orientation, then you won't find that special feeling anywhere else, it's the family bond itself that makes our relationships so special. That said, you can still lead a happy and fulfilling life. I'm just glad that some people are helping to raise awareness of the issues we face just for being what we are. Some day we won't have to face discrimination and harassment by law, our time will come and there are probably far more of us that society realizes. I do hope that you and your sister are able to work things out and be together again one day in the future, just as I hope that me and my dad are able to do so. Thank you for your kind words in response to my story - Jane Doe

    2. I think it probably is my natural sexual orientation, I never gave that department much thought, and though my sister is the only one I have a heart for in this way, being with her was the only time I had ever felt whole, complete and cherished in my entire life.

      So I can completely relate to not being able to find this precious bond and special feeling from anybody else.

      I hope you are right and I hope that time will come for everybody in society who is currently hiding away, I envy those who live in countries where this sort of thing isn't even an issue.

      I don't know if I will be able to work it out with my sister sadly, she has pulled away from me and doesn't talk to me these days, but I'm always thinking of her and the precious memories we made, and well, that's enough to have made the whole relationship worth while.

      I don't know if Keith reads these responses, but I would very much like him to pass my details on to you, should you ever want to talk - Billy Lee Black.

    3. Evidently, there is a connection unlike any other. As such, it is possible for it to be an orientation.

    4. I would like to think so as I think I have finally found my calling, almost like coming out of the closet in a sense.

    5. I think we should be careful with the whole "orientation" thing, Jane. All three of us know people who were in a relationship with a family member, loved them deeply, and still were able to fall in love and remarry after breaking up, whether or not they loved that second person quite as much. One of the good things about defining "consanguinamory" by behavior, not just desire, is that it's more inclusive. If a woman is more attracted to men than women, but is still sexually attracted to women, is she straight? As with most things with people, it's not an all or nothing, "you are or you aren't" kind of thing. Whether or not this person can or cannot fall in love with anyone else should have no bearing on whether we consider them a part of our community.

    6. I consider it along the lines of polyamory in the sense that there are people who just happen to find themselves in such relationships, and I can see that there are people who, for lack of a better word, need such relationships. Some people are polyamorous because they are currently in a polyamorous relationship. Others, because it is so much a part of who they are even if they aren't in a relationship. The pull of consanguinamory can be very powerful.

    7. TFM, I understand your concerns about being as inclusive as we can be. Of course, anyone who has had any experience with a family member should be considered part of the community.

      As to the question, if a woman is more attracted to men than women, but is also attracted to some women, then in my mind she is bisexual, even if she has never had sex with a woman. I say that because it is the attraction that defines her sexuality an not necessarily the behaviour. I guess this is where our opinions may be a bit different.

      There isn't anything to stop a consanguinamorous person from going out and finding an exsanguineous relationship. I if a person can do this successfully then they are a bit like a bisexual... being both consanguineous and exsanguineous (I know that there isn't a word for it, but I think that bisanguineous sounds like a good new word to describe what I mean). If however that person isn't successful because he or she finds that exsanguineous relationships feel wrong to them because the family bond is missing... then they are orientated towards consanguinamory.

      If a man is attracted towards other men, but out of a sense of duty he takes a wife and sleeps with her... is he any less gay? In my mind no, because his attraction is towards other men, not women. His behaviour doesn't define his sexuality, his feelings do.

      I am applying to same reasoning to our community, if you're attracted to any family member, then at least a part of your sexuality is consanguinamorous, although you may be either exclusively consanguinamorous or you may be bisanguineous.

      Does that make sense?

  2. Yes, it is very possible for your soul-mate to be a family member. I discovered that when I fell in love with my brother, and we have been together for many years now. I'm sorry it did not work for this woman and her father. I wish that society would change, that these sort of relationships would be allowed, even encouraged when it is obvious that those involved are in love and committed to one another.

    Liz Smith


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