Wednesday, October 14, 2015

In Double-Love But Denied the Right to Marry

I've done scores of exclusive interviews with lovers, most of whom are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are, by law, denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. It is a privilege to get a glimpse into these relationships consider forbidden by unjust laws or by common public prejudices. Most of them want to marry, whether immediately or not, and it is such a sad thing that anyone would stand in their way.

Below, you will meet "Max" and "Amber." You're not going to see their faces because that would be too much risk for them to take, but I can vouch for them each being attractive people. They also make quite and adorable couple.
They should be free to decide for themselves if they will get married. Yet they face discrimination and prejudice for their love, and must hide the truth from just about everyone in their life. They aren't hurting anyone; why should they have to hide their love and be denied their rights?

Read the interview below and see for yourself what they have to say. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it incredibly erotic, but whatever your reaction, should these lovers be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights?



FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Tell us about yourselves.

Max: We're brother and sister who are students and still living with our parents in a very small town in eastern Oregon.

Amber: I'm Amber. Yep, we're still nesting.

FME: How would you describe your sexual orientation and your relationship orientation?

Max: My sexual orientation is 100% heterosexual

Amber: I'd say mostly heterosexual. I've kissed a few girls. We are staunchly monogamist.

FME: You are in a romantic/sexual relationship with each other? Are you full blood siblings? Who is older?

Max: We are full blood siblings.

Amber: He's my little brother. I'm older by 15 months.

FME: What was your childhood like?

Max: Childhood was pretty normal. We had different interests.

Amber: Totally different; he was and is into sports and I was into art a lot.

FME: What kind of relationship did you have with your parents? Did they ever talk about sex?

Max: Our parents were a bit more open about sex, they would have sex at night and we could hear them.

Amber: Oh yes, those nights were quite awkward at times.

FME: How did sexual affection become a part of your relationship?

Max: We had always been close. Even if in front of her friends she played the bossy older sister, which she still is, but in private she was totally different. Very sweet, affectionate and protective. Because we were so close, personal space between us was different. We would wrestle with each other and cuddle up and nap together, often spooning. Then we noticed things changing when we hit puberty. I started getting erections from our wrestling bouts and from spooning with her. Due to her tom-boyish nature she was and  is a very competitive wrestler and would pin me down sitting on top of me. I guess it was mutually subconscious because she must have noticed my erections and deliberately sat right on top of them and would grind and squirm.

One day she was sitting on top of me as usual and my erection was in a bit of an uncomfortable angle. She noticed and grabbed my penis and re-arranged it, over my shorts of course, no direct skin contact.

At that moment we stared at each other smiling shyly and realized there was an attraction. She stopped pinning my arms and instead we locked hands together. We tried to keep the conversation light, but I could tell we were both thinking different thoughts than from what we were talking about, she again casually let me put my hands on her thighs and rub them. So it continued on like that for a while. We would do the laundry together and she would very subtly get in front of me and bend over to get the laundry from the basket, it progressed on from there. She started sitting on my lap.

I started giving her more affectionate kisses, until one day last year when I was giving her a kiss on the cheek she turned and kissed me on the lips. I wasn't that taken aback, as subconsciously I had been expecting it. We did the usual that day, lay on her bed and cuddle. It didn't seem as odd to either of us, cuddling like that, and that's when she turned around and kissed me again, and again.

And in that mischievous way of hers, she asked me, "Are you a virgin little brother?" She must have noticed my blushing and despite my denials laughed a bit. But then got this serious look on her face, I thought she was mad or something, but then she said. "It's OK if you are."

So I admitted to her I was. She gave me another kiss and took her top off. My mind was going "WOW!" I wanted it so bad too, but I was trying to play it safe and asked her in a feeble way, "What are you doing?"

And she said, "I love you, Max. I only want you and no one else." And from there I totally dropped any safe approach and professed my love for her as well. That was the day we became brother-and-sister sex partners. She had had a couple of partners before, so naturally she took the reigns. That, and she just loves being in control. But nice control, with sisterly love. And she knew all the details of practicing safe sex. So it worked out.

Amber: Aw, isn't he just so sweet? He recalls those moments so vividly, as do I, actually.

FME: Before this had you ever thought this would be possible or enjoyable; did you have any opinion one way or the other about consanguineous relationships?

Max: I hadn't really thought about this kind of relationship before, but when the opportunity came by, I did not hesitate. Something about it felt so natural, so loving and sweet. It didn't feel that taboo. I just felt the taboo factor because of what I had heard and learned about incest.

Amber: I had, in fact, thought about incest a lot, probably ever since I hit puberty. I was fascinated about it. Especially the sex factor, of course.

FME: How did your parents find out about you two being together? How did they react?

Max: Our parents found out by catching us in the act. We thought they had gone out for the evening and just went up to Amber's bedroom and started going at it like usual. I guess we didn't hear them coming in the house and they must have then heard the quite obvious noises coming from her bedroom and walked in on us.

Of course their first reaction was shock and disbelief. But then they sat us down and talked to us about the importance of safe sex. They were quite relieved that we had been practicing such sex. And that it was unusual for a brother and sister to be engaging in sex.

We told them that we liked it a lot and that it had strengthened our sibling bond. We could tell they were not 100% on board with it, but their rationale later on was that it was better than to engage with strangers and pick up STDs. I'm not saying they have made a 180 on the matter. They still tell us to desist, even when they walk in on us again from time to time, but they haven't freaked out about it either. It's a form of mild tolerance mixed with passive-aggressive approaches to get us to stop. Like for example, our mom picks up all the dirty laundry from our rooms, and in one of those instances she opened Amber's door and there we were having sex. She gave a deep sigh and said something like, "You kids need to stop humping each other." And then she tried to get us to stop by telling us we had chores to do.

Amber: Yeah that pretty much sums it up. They freaked out initially, but then they settled down into the routine of frowning every time they see us engage in sex, but they haven't exactly accepted it yet either.

Max: It's in their tone. If we are just watching TV, their tone in calling for us to do some chore is half-hearted. If we are upstairs in Amber's bed, they try harder to get us to disengage. It depends on the day too. Sometimes they may walk past her bedroom and hear us having sex, but they don't say anything. Other times, especially if he have been going at it a ong time, like we usually do, they bang on the door and tell us "That's enough for today," or "Finish up already and come downstairs for dinner."

At least the family time is not awkward. It probably helps that she's a great student and I get rather decent grades. It doesn't help though that Amber's room is right next to theirs. We made a compromise with our parents that on school nights I can sleep in Amber's bed, but we cannot engage in any sex. But we break that rule by having really slow and quiet sex. Her bed is bigger and fluffier so the choice was obvious. Thankfully it doesn't creak. But again as I said, it's in their tone. If Amber and I are headed upstairs our parents ask us where we're going, and when we say to Amber's room, they give us this disapproving look almost saying "Again?"

Amber: Exactly! The tone. They don't explicitly tell us to stop, but they do it in a passive-aggressive manner. They try to find chores for us to keep us busy. But we work in tandem and finish them quickly. Then we do as we want.

FME: Are these the biological parents of both of you? What is their relationship like?

Max: Yeah they're our natural parents. Their relationship is pretty cool.

Amber: At least they have fun with each other, like us [laughs].

FME: Have you had other lovers since your relationship with each other became sexual, and have any of them known about your relationship with each other?

Max: Nope no other relationships; all I want is her.

Amber: Aww, he keeps being so sweet. No other person for me either.

FME: Is there anyone else who knows that you are siblings and that your relationship includes sex?

Max: Outside of our parents, hopefully no one knows.

Amber: Yeah that would create problems, but it seems no one knows, thankfully.

FME How do you describe the lovemaking now? Taboo? Natural? Especially erotic?

Max: Out of this world. All of the above, what can I say? It's awesome.

Amber: Yeah, I have that effect [laughs]. The lovemaking is sweet and passionate, and very playful. Lots of kissing, caressing and giggling. Yeah he giggles.

Max: I don't giggle!

Amber: Yeah you do, [laughs].

FME: Describe your relationship now. What are your living arrangements? Do you see each other as family or lovers, or are those two roles inseparable at this point? Is it family-with-benefits, an affair, girlfriend-boyfriend, a marriage, what?

Max: Still at home but hopefully we can move out some day in the near future.

Amber: Same hope here. We see each other as exclusive lovers and family members. We have mixed the two together and it has strengthened our bond.

FME: Do you have any children together?

Max: Children? No, not yet. Too early for that.

Amber: Yeah I agree, but thankfully our mom got me the on the pill. No more condoms!

Max: No greater feeling than freely [ejaculating] in my sis.

Amber: See what I got to live with? He's like a leg-humping dog. [laughs]

FME: What kind of steps, if any, have you had to take to keep your privacy? Are you able to act like a couple in public?

Max: We just keep our feelings in check in public. For me it's hard; I love her like a wife.

Amber: For me it's easier to keep my feelings in check in public because I have better discipline. But it's still hard sometimes.

FME: Having to hide the full nature of your relationship from some people can be a disadvantage. Can you describe how that has been? Are there any other disadvantages? Conversely, do you think there are some advantages to consanguinamorous relationships, especially between siblings?

Max: Some disadvantage is that we see other couples act out their feelings and we can't do the same; it hurts sometimes. Advantages? Sometimes the secret aspects makes it a bit kinky. That other teens might be doing something awfully boring on Wednesday night, but I'm all cuddled up next to Amber after passionate lovemaking.

Amber: Yeah I hate that disadvantage, it reinforces that outcast feeling. But I am also realistic and know that public opinion will not change any time soon, so it does not bother me all too much. Love what Max said about that advantage. Other teens living at home can't simply have their boyfriends or giurlfriends come and have sex with them so casually as we can any day of the week.

FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship? What's your reply to those who would say that this is one of you preying on the other (and that you can’t truly consent)?

Max: I don't care what the naysayers say or do. Can't consent? Our first time together would be a "Dear Penthouse" moment.

Amber: [Laughs] Wow, yeah it was awesome that first time. We would never take advantage of one another, nor "prey" on each other. We are in double-love: as siblings and as lovers. How can such unconditional and unselfish love be considered "preying?"

FME: If you could get legally married and that included protections against discrimination, harassment, etc., would you?

Max: Definitely! We hope one day we can be.

Amber: Max is always like that, very romantic. I too hope we can be married one day. But being the realist here, it would most likely be one behind closed doors, just between us.

FME: What advice do you have for someone who may be thinking about getting sexual with a family member, especially a sibling?

Max: Each case is different, I can't comment on someone else's life experiences or desires. But if you got a hot sister like Amber and the circumstances show she wants you and you want her? Don't let that opportunity slip by.

Amber: I totally agree. But I would advise to be totally sure before making a move.

FME: Any plans for the future?

Max: Marry Amber and live happily ever after.

Amber: He's so cute! Yeah, that future is what we have planned. But for now, it's just lots of lovemaking and cuddling.


There you have it. A brother and sister who who aren't hurting anyone and yet face discrimination and denial of their rights simply for loving each other. They are happy and in love, yet they are denied their fundamental right to marry. They could be still be criminally prosecuted in most US states because they are brother and sister having sex. Who is the victim?

Why should they be denied their rights? There’s no good reason.We need to recognize that all adults should be free to be with any and all consenting adults as they mutually consent, and part of doing that is adopting relationship rights for all, including full marriage equality sooner rather than later. People are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this
If you want to be interviewed about your "forbidden" relationship, connect with me by checking under the "Get Connected" tab there at the top of the page.

If you know someone who is in a relationship like this, please read this.

Thank you to Max and Amber for doing this interview! We wish you well in your consanguinamorous relationship and with getting out on your own.
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  1. i think sex and love are two different things

    1. What do you mean avinash? You think they're not in love?

  2. Thanks for this interview, Keith. You asked all the important questions, and the interviewees seemed like a sweet, very likable couple.

    RE:"their [parents'] rationale later on was that it was better than to engage with strangers and pick up STDs."

    That's what *I* thought, too, when asking myself what I would do in the parents' shoes, but I was afraid my judgment was clouded from being biased in favor of consanguinamory, so I'm relieved in a sense that two people who were actually quite uncomfortable with the whole deal arrived at the same conclusion.

    It makes perfect sense, if you come to think of it. It's a different question how old is old enough to be having sex, but if they were going to anyway, who would you rather they were doing it with? with each other, in the safety of their own home, under your oversight -- or somewhere outside, with someone you knew nothing about, just waiting to stumble on all sorts of STDs, pregnancies, slut-shaming, rape, assault, and God knows what else?

    1. Thank You so much Mark. This is the couple in the interview. Yes we feel it is a loving environment. A very safe home and our parents seem to be more and more laid back about it. It's full of fuzzy moments our love.

    2. Oh hey. Glad to hear that. :) And a well-spoken, very educated-sounding couple, I forgot to note. Judging by how rationally and restrainedly your parents treated the matter, I don't have to wonder who you got it from, haha.

      One perk of being so close in age is that you could go to college together if you wanted to, talking about getting on your own.

      One thing I can tell you. There is, no doubt, a value to realism -- and an advantage of being a pleasantly surprised pessimist over being a disappointed optimist -- but instead of setting your eyes immediately on some quixotic goals concerning the wider society, remember you can start small. Once an individual's own personal, social and professional life has been put in order, that's when they can afford to engross themselves in more global issues -- you know, helping oneself before one can help others. You've even gotten your parents' approval already, so that's a great start.

      I too wish you luck in getting on your own, and a great future all around. :)

  3. What a sweet couple. This "case studies" thing you've got going is great, Keith, as there is little alternative in getting to know various incestuous couples. Their opinions, feelings, the dynamics in their relationship, how they get by, how they compare with 'vanilla' couples, their plans, etc.

    For some weird reason, I've always found incest disgusting on a personal level only, I.E. thinking about any of my close relatives sexually. This never translated into disgust of others, even though I knew that it's 'unnatural' and 'taboo'.

    Wish there was a way you could build on these interviews, though. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I figure incestuous couples are both extremely wary but also eager to come out, even if on the internet, due to being forced to bottle up and keep to themselves. The vast majority of the cases are from the Anglo-sphere, too, and I'm not aware of any similar site or blog in another language providing an outlet for people in incestuous relationships.

    Best of luck to Max, Amber, your parents, and whatever children you decide on having. Always good to hear from people who persevere and still manage to build themselves something wonderful.


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