Discovering Consanguinamory in the Family Tree

I am [or, had been] active on [a certain Big Online Portal's question and answer service], especially when it comes to explaining the importance of relationship rights, full marriage equality, and decriminalizing consanguinamory. Someone had this question...

Family Tree Concerns..?
My Grandfather recently passed away and my Grandmother told us all that her and my Grandfather were never married, they had always celebrated an anniversary (or so we thought,) but didn't understand while she waited till he died before telling us. After further research into my family tree I have discovered that my Grandmother married her Uncle (is this incest!?!), my Mother feels all weird because it feels like her life has been a lie and the only person she could have asked and got a proper answer was her Dad but now he's gone so we are both just looking for some advice or if anyone has been or is going through a similar situation...

This was my answer, which was chosen as the best answer (thankyouverymuch)...
= = = =
Here's what matters: Was your grandfather a good person? A good spouse to your Grandmother? A good parent? A good grandparent? THAT is what matters, not any genetic or legal relation to your grandmother. There's no lie about any of that. Your mother's life is no different now than it was before she knew that information. She's just allowing cultural prejudices to influence her reaction. Your grandparents had what is called a common-law marriage. As long as they were good to each other, that is what matters.

You didn't make it clear, but it appears you mean your grandfather was the brother of one of your grandmother's parents (he would still be an "uncle" to her if he had, at one time, been married to one of your grandmother's parents' sisters without any biological relation to your grandmother). Assuming there was a genetic connection (though it is possible he had been adopted into the family, too), that is still no reason for alarm. This is much more common than people think. People are finding out about this through DNA testing and family records, although family records don't always reveal the truth. If you go back further, it is virtually guaranteed you'll find you have consanguineous ancestors.

You don't have to go too far back in anyone's family tree to find these kinds of things. I doubt there is a person out there whose ancestry has nothing like this.

In other words.... you and your family are as normal as everyone else.
= = =

Just about everyone has incestuous childbearing in their family tree. In some cases, someone was raped, which of course is a horrible, or there was cheating. In other cases, it was true love between people who were not cheating on anyone. If the law prevented them from legally marrying or from telling the truth, that is a problem, a terrible problem, of the law, and just one of many reasons we need full marriage equality. It is not something wrong with the lovers.

A Change of Heart Into Becoming An Ally

It happens a lot.

Someone grows as they go through life and they realize they now have more understanding and more compassion when it comes to who other people are and who those people love.

An example was expressed in this comment:

I'm a friend who reacted badly because I liked the guy and found out about him and his niece. That was ages ago. I understand now but I don't know how to repair that friendship. Any thoughts?

I'm assuming you're not talking about the specific people in that interview. I don't know you, and I don't know the guy, so I can only give generalized advice. Feel free to contact me directly for further consultation.

I'd go see the guy in-person, if possible. Ask him when and where you can meet him "because I owe you an apology." You two should either meet alone or with his niece; nobody else should be along. For everyone's comfort, it should be somewhere "public" but where you can get out of earshot of other people. 

Get to it as soon as you can. Say something along the lines of: "I owe you an apology for how I reacted. I did some thinking, and I realized that you both have the right to choose who you're with. If you can forgive me and accept my apology, I'm here for you." 

That is vague enough that if someone is somehow listening in, there's nothing that incriminates them.

It's best if you allow him/them to react. They might need some time. Their reaction might not be what you hope it will be. On the other hand, it might turn out great for all three of you. Please understand they've probably had to hide their relationship, deal with bigotry and discrimination, and lost other friends and family over this, so it can be very difficult for some people to talk about it.

Don't make promises you're not going to keep, like telling them they can talk to you about their relationship or act like an affectionate couple around you if you can't handle that.

Do tell them you won't out them to anyone, and be sure you don't.

If it isn't possible to see him/them in person, then do it by phone call or video chat; some way that will feel sincere and they can hear your tone. But again, while making it clear you are apologizing and you are now supportive, be vague enough with your choice of words so that if someone is overhearing it you are not incriminating them or getting them to incriminate themselves.

Please let us know how it goes.

You might want to to read this:

How to Be An Ally to Consaguinamorous People You Know

Stop Dragon Your Hate Around

Television series "House of the Dragon" (a "Game of Thrones" prequel) put the topic on "incest" back into discussions. The magazine Cosmopolitan tweeted this, and then deleted their tweet, because there is so much ignorance and bigotry on Twitter. [For those who don't see it, the tweet showed two characters who are about to kiss or just have, and said "Now That 'House of Dragon' Is Over, I'll Say It: Incest Fantasies are Hot"]

TW/CW!!!

How many times does it need to be said?

Consensual incest (consanguinamory) and abuse are two very different things.

It is terrible that anybody was abused by a close relative. But abuse by a close relative doesn't make CONSENSUAL affection between close relatives wrong any more than rape by a stranger makes sex with a blind date wrong.

From the article at Cosmopolitan.com...

There’s nothing morally okay about inter-family sex, no matter how hot the actors and how palpable the chemistry.

On the contrary, there is nothing wrong with it. Consenting adults should be free to chose their lovers.

And yet, week after week since August 21, fans have rooted—nay, thirsted—for Daemon and Rhaenyra Targaryen on House of the Dragon, and I, dear reader, am one of them.

Yes, it is one of those situations. "I'm turned on by the idea but I think real people who actually love each other should be denied their rights and stigmatized!"

When they finally had sex (as consenting adults), fans ate it up.

Good. But don't turn around the throw real people under the bus.

So even though IRL, incest is wrong (“Children resulting from an incestual relationship can sometimes suffer from congenital anomalies when blending familial genetics,” says Dr. Gary Brown, a prominent couples therapist in Los Angeles. “This is one of the primary reasons that incest is a taboo to begin with.”

Ah, Discredited Argument 18.

This, apart from the fact that when it does happen, it is often a result of sexual abuse.)

That is literally the same sort of crap bigots say about people being gay. Most people who were abused in the past still CHOOSE their CONSENSUAL lovers later.

Kinky fantasies are also at play here. It’s okay to be turned on by something (be it in porn, on your favorite Netflix show, or in your own private mental playground) that you’d never actually do IRL. That’s why they’re called fantasies. Everyone has them, and shows like House of the Dragon give people an outlet for safe exploration.

It's pretty safe to sexually experiment with someone who already knows and loves you, too.

Many people fantasize about consanguineous sex.

Many people want to engage in consanguineous sex.

Many people have engaged in consanguineous sex.

None of that is wrong in and of itself.

There are people everywhere who are in ongoing, loving, romantic relationships with one more more close relatives. You might even know and admire some without knowing of their relation. Stop separating people out to be the targets of prejudice and other forms of hate. Let's defend the rights of ALL to their sexuality and relationships.

The Rolling Wheels of Deep and Passionate Love

We have another exclusive interview to bring you, and this one is extensive.

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. Most can’t even be out of the closet or they’ll face prosecution under absurd incest laws, which, instead of focusing on abuse, also target consensual relationships.

The woman and man interviewed below should be free to legally marry each other, or simply to be together as a couple without having to hide, yet they can’t. Prejudice can be deadly. They are consenting adults who aren’t hurting anyone; why should they be denied their rights? In much of the world, including where they live, they could be criminally prosecuted for their love, and might be persecuted severely in addition.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what they have to say about the love they share with each other. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic and romantic, but whatever your reaction, should lovers like these be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

Also please note that someone you love, respect, and admire could be in a similar relationship right now. Should they be attacked and denied rights because of the "incest" label?

***Please be aware there are mild descriptions of sex and sexuality.***.

*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourselves.

Niece: I am a 34 year-old woman born as an only child. I live in a major city in the Southwest, and have a background in animal training, rescue, and rehabilitation work. I do not have any children, first by choice, second due to medical necessity. I am a highly artistic, spiritual and sensitive person, being an empath. I am especially aware of the feelings of anything around me, which includes animals and plants. My work includes animal medicine, and I work in multiple spiritual fields. 

Uncle: I’m 63 years old. I have two sisters; one is estranged and one is a supporter of our relationship. That's my niece's mom. I was an electrician for 45 years. I am an avid motorcycle adventurist and am an ex-professional racer. I have two sons, aged 41 and 43, one son is supportive, and one is estranged. I'm semi-retired. My current hobbies are adventuring on motorcycles, carving walking sticks, playing with my animals, and anything spiritual and energetic healing related. 

Aunts and Nephews

More days than not, someone finds this blog by doing a search on something like...

incest, aunt nephew, how common
or
Is it incest to have sex with your aunt
or
Do aunts and nephews have sex
or
I’m in love with my aunt
or
Can an aunt marry her nephew

You get the idea. People are searching for information on aunts and nephews having a romantic or erotic connection or marrying. At least some of them are very likely to be aunts who are having sex or want to have sex with a nephew and vice-versa. It is a not-so-distant runner-up to searches about siblings having sex or marrying. Keep in mind that much of this entry also applies to aunts and nieces, and to uncles and nieces and uncles and nephews. [UPDATE: A nephew responded to this entry by asking if he and his aunt could still get in trouble.]

When "Incest" is Consanguinamory - a Consensual, Positive Experience

[This is a popular entry from a few years ago, being bumped up because it is still relevant.]

There are people who would have everyone believe that there are no happy consanguinamorous relationships. That romance or eroticism with a close biological relative can only be a bad experience. Over at PFI [a site that doesn't exist anymore... go to Kindred Spirits for an existing place to talk], one discussion participant asked a question and answered it first…

If you could go back in time to where it all started and have the knowledge you do now about what lay ahead of you in this thing called incest, would you still go through with it ??

i've thought about it many times, and the answer i come up is yes i would, sure there are many tears and hard times you go through, but for me the good has always outweighed the bad, life is what you make of it, and we've made a very good life for ourselves....

The first response…

When An Older Partner Struggles Emotionally

There's this "ideal" that's perpetrated by what I'd call the relationship police of a man and a woman of the same race, background, and age, or maybe with the man being a couple of years older, marrying, staying monogamous, staying sexually active with each other, raising their two joint children (the only children they ever have) together, then happily growing old together and dying within a few years of each other.

This does happen.

It is not the life story of most people, though. It isn't even necessarily what most people want for themselves.

Some people are gay.
Some people don't want to get married.
Some people don't want children or can't have them.
Some people want more children.
Some people prefer an older lover.
Some people prefer a younger lover.
Some people prefer someone of a different race.
Some people are polyamorous.
Some people have open marriages.
Some people get married more than once.
Some people are asexual.
Some people die well before reaching the average life expectancy.

The variations are almost endless.

Optimistically, the divorce rate for first marriages is as low as 30 percent. Additional marriages have a higher rate of divorce. Some people don't divorce, but their marriage is not a happy, functional one. Those are just the ones who make it to marriage. There are relationships that last for years, and might involve living together, major joint purchases, and children, but they have a breakup rate much higher than first marriages. And then there are the people struggling to even get a relationship going.

I don't write this to be depressing.

I write this to point out that if lovers...

1) are mutually attracted
2) treat each other right
3) don't have major goals in conflict and are otherwise broadly compatible

...they have hit paydirt. Paydirt isn't so easy to find.

Of Fire, Powder, Vibrations, and the Irresistible

This blog is here to advocate for the rights of all consenting adults to be together how they mutually agree. Included in that is supporting ethical or consensual nonmonogamy. Unfortunately, because of lingering laws and prejudices about consanguinamory, many people can't be open about their attractions and experiences; cheating, which we do not advocate, can happen in such a negative environment as people do not feel free to discuss things openly and honestly with their partners, or anyone else for that matter. Again, we don't advocate cheating, but we recognize that some consanguineous sexual relationships do happen in the context of cheating; many reunion Genetic Sexual Attraction situations involve this. Still, there are things we can learn about relationships in general and consanguineous relationships especially by interviewing people who have had such experiences.

The woman interviewed below formed a family with partner and having a child together, but she's deeply torn because of something that happened to her.

In much of the world, including all but a couple of US states, both she and her other lover could be criminally prosecuted for this, not for the cheating, but for having sex with each other.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what this articulate woman has to say. You may think his relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic and romantic; you might find the cheating to be unacceptable. But whatever your reaction, should this be a crime? Shouldn't they be able to be open about their relationship and even marry, if that's what they want? Also, notice that aspects of the relationship are common to GSA relationships that don't involve cheating, too. We don't condone cheating, but even a relationship that involves cheating can help give an understanding of the dynamic of consanguineous relationships, as this is happening everywhere, and clearly she feels extremely conflicted. You can tell how this is weighing on her when you read what she has to say. It's a terrible shame that there isn't more research into this and more help available.

*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe your background.

The Other Shoe Drops in Indiana, Shedding More Light

The other day, we noted and commented on an arrest in Indiana. Here's word of a second arrest in the same case, and more information about the case, from Liz Shepherd at the same news website.

A second individual was charged with incest after admitting to having sexual intercourse multiple times with a male relative. 

Charges have officially been filed against William Glenn Davis, 54, 23095 Tyler Road, Lakeville; and Samantha Lyn Davis, 21,1903 West Point Drive, Warsaw. Each have been charged with incest, a level 5 felony.

They are consenting adults. This shouldn't be a law enforcement matter in the first place.

On Jan. 17, an officer with the Warsaw Police Department responded to a domestic disturbance at a Warsaw residence. The officer arrived and spoke with Samantha Davis and her ex-boyfriend. Both subjects were accusing the other of domestic violence.

So this was NOT about domestic violence between the defendants.

According to the affidavit of probable cause, the officer spoke with the ex-boyfriend, who advised that he and Samantha Davis were arguing because she was having sexual relations with William Davis. Samantha Davis admitted in July 2018, she started having sexual intercourse with William Davis at her residence. She had sexual intercourse and sexual conduct with him multiple times during 2018. The relationship between Samantha Davis and William Davis was removed from court documents.

Based on the laws and their ages, she's either his daughter or his niece; there's a slight chance she's his granddaughter or half-sister. Those are the possibilities.

So they were ratted out by her ex-boyfriend, who may or may not have gotten into a domestic violence situation with her. Too bad he wasn't an ally.

Is Indiana Still Arresting Consenting Adults?

From infreenews.com comes a report of a "President Of Local Business Arrested For Incest"...

William Glen Davis, 54, 23095 Tyler Road, Lakeville, was arrested at 5:46 p.m. Friday, Jan. 18, on a charge of incest. Davis is president of Lake City Heat Treating Corporation, 2427 N. Boeing Road, Warsaw.

Why do they include a picture, name, address, and his business? How is that relevant??? Why not hand the bigots pitchforks???

Notice the charge is "incest" and not "assault."

According to information from authorities at the Warsaw Police Department, police were notified of a domestic complaint Thursday, Jan. 17, on West Point Drive, Warsaw.

These days, neighbors can call in a "domestic complaint" and the police are usually obligated to investigate. No proof other than what the caller says need be offered. On the other hand, it could be that someone inside the home was scared and called the police. We aren't given enough detail.

Detectives went to the scene and during the interview with an adult female involved in the domestic complaint, she told police she had been having sexual relations with a relative. That relative was Davis. 

Police report the relationship had been going on for some time and was confirmed by both parties involved. 

Davis was interviewed by police and arrested following the interview. Charges have been signed and filed with the prosecutor’s office.

A few things to say:

1) She is an adult.

2) Sexual relations and assault are two very different things. He was arrested for "incest" and not assault.

3) Indiana, like most states, doesn't criminalize sex between first cousins, so unless police acted outside the law, that means this relative is either his mother (or grandmother), daughter (or granddaughter), niece, aunt, or sister, because Indiana DOES still criminalize sex between those consenting adults.

4) Perhaps they didn't know that sex between consenting adults is still criminalized in Indiana, and so they had no hesitation to tell the police they have sex? Here's what consanguinamorous people need to do to protect themselves.

More charges are expected pending further investigation.

What does that mean? That the woman, who also broke the unconstitutional law, is going to get arrested and charged? THIS IS A WASTE OF PUBLIC RESOURCES! If he assaulted her or anyone else, charge him with that. If consenting adults are having sex, that shouldn't be crime. Consanguineous sex happens every day not far from where you are reading this, wherever you are. Thankfully, most of it never results in an arrest. Stop this senseless persecution. There is no good reason to deny them their right to be together. We need relationships rights for all, including full marriage equality, everywhere.

UPDATE: She was arrested, too.

England Still Prosecuting Consenting Adults

While the vast majority of consanguineous sex and consanguinamory never becomes a law enforcement matter and there are people not far from you engaging in consanguinamory as you read this, there are still places where some people are prosecuted for the "crime" of enjoying each other's company.

Here's a report from stokesentinel.co.uk...

An uncle and niece had two children together after forming a sexual relationship.

Nowhere in the article is it mentioned that those children have any health problems whatsoever, and you just know that would be included if they did. So we can assume that like most children born to such relationships, the children are fine. Except that their parents are being harassed and discriminated against and branded.

Details of the incest have emerged as the pair were taken to court after coming clean to their family.

So their family ratted them out. How terrible. Don't be like those rats!

Stoke-on-Trent Crown Court heard the man and woman, who are both from North Staffordshire but cannot be named for legal reasons, were a couple for years and even had children together. 

Prosecutor Robert Price said the male defendant was the brother of the female defendant's mum. 

After initially denying the allegations, the couple came clean when confronted by relatives and the authorities.

The family should have kept it at that.

The pair, who are no longer a couple but still live in the area, pleaded guilty to having sex with an adult relative.

What an absurd "crime." There's no victim. Consenting adults have a right to be together how they mutually agree.

Judge David Fletcher sentenced both defendants, who have no previous convictions, to a 12-month community order with supervision. The man was ordered to complete 40 hours unpaid work and the woman was made the subject of a six-week curfew from 11pm to 8am. 

Both were placed on the sex offenders’ register for five years.

Outrageous! At least they weren't thrown in prison, like some others. How, exactly, have they been dangerous to anyone? What threat do they pose? What's wrong with loving each other?

There is no good reason to prosecute lovers like this.

If they really did break up and aren't just appearing to let strangers control their love life, I'd be curious as to why. Sometimes it is exactly because of such unjust prosecutions that lovers don't stay together. The threat of being so mistreated by their own government is too much stress.

If you're in a similar relationship, this is why you might want to keep the closet door closed and otherwise protect yourself and each other.

Jane's Latest Survey

If you are strongly attracted to one or more close relatives and it's NOT a reunion situation in which you didn't have much contact with them while you were grown up, but rather they've been in your life all along or most of the time, Jane's latest survey is for you. Please take it.

The Royal We

A discussion was underway at theroyalforums.com about "Incestuous Royal Marriages." This blog has noted such things before.
 
Kataryn started off the discussion YEARS ago...

Legally Catherine of Aragon was married incestually because she as widow of one brother married the other after the first hausband's death.

That's not considered incest in most definitions.

But that's just a formality. History has shown that Royal families did not hesitate to form very close bonds between them. While a marriage of cousin and cousin happened quite often, marriages between unles and nieces are rare - but they happened, too.

One example is the marriage of Antoinette Marie of Wuerttemberg to Ernst I. of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Marie's mother Antoinette of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld was the sister of the groom.

Then there are the three uncle-niece marriages of the Spanish and Austrian Habsburgs:

- Philipp II. married Anna of Austria, the daughter of his sister Marie.

- Archduke Charles II of Austria-Innerösterreich married Maria Anna of Bavaria, daughter of his sister Anna of Austria.

- Philipp IV. married Marianna of Austria, daughter of his sister Maria Anna.

As you can see, the last three uncle-niece-marriages happened in the House of Habsburg between 1550 and 1660 in the direct line leading to Philipp IV. of Spain and his wife Marianna of Austria. Their child is the sad, sick Don Carlos of Schillerian fame...

Not 100 years later, the House of Habsburg ended in the male line. But of course the marriage of Maria Theresia of Austria to Francis Stephan of Lorraine brought new blood into the family..

As I understand it, uncle-niece marriages are allowed in some places in deference to religious traditions.

What Happened at the Hull Crown Court in East Yorkshire? - UPDATED

At first, this article by Gaby Bissett at dailymail.co.uk appeared to be about yet another ridiculous, destructive prosecution of consenting adults for having sex.

A man who fathered two children with his niece after the pair started a sexual relationship has been jailed for four-and-a-half years.

"Started a sexual relationship" prompts me to ask why are we wasting resources prosecuting and imprisoning consenting adults for having relationships???

A court heard that the 'appalling and sad case' was revealed after a social services investigation.

The pair had been having a consensual sexual relationship, leading to the birth of two children.

"The pair had been having a consensual sexual relationship" prompts me to say that only thing appalling and sad is that anyone is interfering.

Speaking at Hull Crown Court, East Yorkshire, Nigel Clive, prosecuting, said: 'The situation, in short, is this - Hull social services were invited to intervene as a result of the birth of two children.'

He said DNA tests proved the link between the children and their parents, who appeared in the dock together.

Well I'd think DNA tests would prove a link between children and parents. People who make children together do tend provide their DNA, after all.

Judge Jeremy Richardson QC said: 'The reality is, they were having an intimate, consensual sexual relationship with each other.'

An "intimate, consensual sexual relationship" shouldn't be a crime.

David Godfrey, representing the niece, said she had already 'suffered' after losing her children to social services.

Why were the children taken? It appears so far in the article the only harm here is what is being done by the authorities.

But hold on...

Seniors Grow Closer After Many Decades

Longtime famous sexpert Dr. Ruth Westheimer's column addresses a subject relevant to this blog. The attention-grabbing headline invokes "incest," which headline writers appear to enjoy using. This indicates it draw attention much more than it repels.

Q: I have an uncle who recently became widowed. I've been very fond of him since I was a child. I'm 60 and divorced, and he's 69.

"Uncle," if not being used honorarily, can mean a parent's full-blood brother, half-brother, adopted brother, even stepbrother, or the husband of parent's full-blood sibling, half-sibling, adopted sibling, or stepsibling. It is also sometimes used of older cousins, or a parent's uncle (great uncle). Based on the ages and lack of clarification other than the mention of his divorce and knowing him since childhood (which means for well over 40 years), it is probable that this is uncle the biological sibling of the letter writer's mother or father.

My uncle and I are getting very fond of each other. He kisses and fondles me and wants to be intimate, but I hesitate because I feel it might be incest. I'd appreciate if you could let me know an answer to this question, because I feel I'm weakening.

Most people would classify this as incest. If there is no genetic connection, it isn't incest biologically. However, that shouldn't matter. What matters is what these two mature adults want and mutually negotiate. Nobody else should get a veto.

How did Dr. Ruth answer?

Are Genetic Studies Revealing Consanguinamory is Common?

Someone commenting on this blog linked to this article at nature.com from the European Journal of Human Genetics, to which I only subscribe for the annual swimsuit issue. But seriously, the article is extremely technical. Those of you who are somewhat educated in the sciences, especially Biology in general or genetics in particular, may be able to decipher what's being said, but I think I understand what the Abstract said.

Abstract

Copy neutral segments with allelic homozygosity, also known as regions of homozygosity (ROHs), are frequently identified in cases interrogated by oligonucleotide single-nucleotide polymorphism (oligo-SNP) microarrays. Presence of ROHs may be because of parental relatedness, chromosomal recombination or rearrangements and provides important clues regarding ancestral homozygosity, consanguinity or uniparental disomy. In this study of 14 574 consecutive cases, 832 (6%) were found to harbor one or more ROHs over 10 Mb, of which 651 cases (78%) had multiple ROHs, likely because of identity by descent (IBD), and 181 cases (22%) with ROHs involving a single chromosome. Parental relatedness was predicted to be first degree or closer in 5%, second in 9% and third in 19%. Of the 181 cases, 19 had ROHs for a whole chromosome revealing uniparental isodisomy (isoUPD). In all, 25 cases had significant ROHs involving a single chromosome; 5 cases were molecularly confirmed to have a mixed iso- and heteroUPD15 and 1 case each with segmental UPD9pat and segmental UPD22mat; 17 cases were suspected to have a mixed iso- and heteroUPD including 2 cases with small supernumerary marker and 2 cases with mosaic trisomy. For chromosome 15, 12 (92%) of 13 molecularly studied cases had either Prader–Willi or Angelman syndrome. Autosomal recessive disorders were confirmed in seven of nine cases from eight families because of the finding of suspected gene within a ROH. This study demonstrates that ROHs are much more frequent than previously recognized and often reflect parental relatedness, ascertain autosomal recessive diseases or unravel UPD in many cases.

Taking a closer look...

"Parental relatedness was predicted to be first degree or closer in 5%, second in 9% and third in 19%"

Now, "parental relatedness" being "first degree" means someone's genetic parents were parent and child or full siblings. That's for 5% of the population, or, 1 out of every 20 people.

"Second degree" means uncle and niece, aunt and nephew, grandparent and grandchild or half-siblings. That's 9%, or almost 1 out of every 10 people having such parentage.

"Third degree" means first cousins or some similar distance. That 19%, or nearly 1 out of every 5.

"This study demonstrates that ROHs [regions of homozygosity] are much more frequent than previously recognized and often reflect parental relatedness..."

Unless I'm reading that wrong, these scientists are saying more people in the population have close relatives for parents than previously thought.

It is important to remember that these do not all reflect CONSENSUAL (to be redundant) sex. At least some are, no doubt, the result of rape. Still, the indication is that...

1) A significantly large percentage of the population has genetic parents who are first cousins or closer, and most of them do not have severe genetic problems, or a whole lot more people would have such problems;

2) Even if we only count consensual relationships that are producing children (and we know that many consanguineous relationships don't because either they can't or choose not to), there's a lot of consanguinamory going on out there.

Another Woman Denied Her Rights

I've done scores of exclusive interviews with lovers, most of whom are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are, by law, denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. It is a privilege to get a glimpse into these relationships consider forbidden by unjust laws or by common public prejudices. Most of them want to marry, whether immediately or not, and it is such a sad thing that anyone would stand in their way.

Below, you will meet "Jane Doe." She's an adult and should be free to decide for herself whether to marry and with whom she should get married. She longs to restore romance to a relationship in which the romance was ended because they faced discrimination and prejudice for their love, and had to hide the truth from everyone in their life. They weren't hurting anyone; why should they be denied in the full measure of their love and be denied their rights?

Read the interview below and see for yourself what Jane has to say. You may think her relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it incredibly erotic, but whatever your reaction, should adult lovers be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights?



*****


FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourself.

Jane Doe: I'm just an average sort of person, I've worked in normal kind of jobs and earned an average sort of wage. I'm reasonably attractive but not exactly what you'd call model material, and I'm in my early 30s. As for hobbies, I like online games and video games, just to chill out for a couple of hours. I've never been married.

Looking at Consanguineous Ancestors at Reddit

Someone using the name Doncuneo asked at reddit.com for responses from people who have consanguineous ancestry...

[Serious] Redditors who are the products of incest (parents, Grand, Great Grand etc.) have any genetic disorders or recessive traits affected you?serious replies only

When I last checked,  there were many hundreds of responses. Here are just a few below. It is a reinforcement of what this blog has said before; one usually doesn't have to go far back in their family history to find ancestors who were close relatives.

Please note that the way the question was asked solicited responses that include accounts of two very different things: assault and sex (which is consensual). It is also important to keep in mind that genetics are just one of many factors that can contribute to health problems.

New York Moves Closer to Full Marriage Equality

A Friend of Lily bought to my attention this Reuters report at yahoo.com by Daniel Wiessner…

Nearly a century after the same court annulled a marriage between an uncle and his half-niece, New York's top court said on Tuesday that a woman's union with her half-uncle was lawful.

It’s progress, no matter how small.

U.S. immigration officials in 2007 said Vietnamese citizen Huyen Nguyen's marriage in 2000 to her mother's half-brother, U.S. citizen Vu Truong, was void and sought to deport her. A federal appeals court asked the New York Court of Appeals to decide whether such marriages were lawful.

Nguyen was aged 19 and Truong was 24 when they got married.

The U.S. Justice Department claimed an 1893 state law that bars marriages between "a brother and sister of either the whole or the half blood," as well as "uncles and nieces or aunts and nephews," applied to Nguyen and Truong.

But it doesn’t specify half-uncles or half-aunts. It also doesn’t specify that a brother can’t marry a brother or a sister a sister or an uncle a nephew or an aunt a niece, although other laws may apply. We touched on these topics recently here.

According to court documents, Maine is the only state that expressly allows marriages between uncles and nieces or aunts and nephews. Courts in four states, including Kansas and Missouri, have upheld such marriages, while about 30 states have banned them.

The case is Huyen Nguyen v. Eric Holder, New York State Court of Appeals, No. 146.

See this map from The Final Manifesto. We need to get rid of the ridiculous patchwork of which adults are going to have which rights in different states and have nationwide full marriage equality so that an adult is free to marry any and all consenting adults.

Congrats to the couple and all who supported and represented them!

Is the Republic of Maldives Prosecuting Consenting Adults?

A woefully incomplete news report at sun.mv was headlined with "Two arrested on suspicion of incest."

Two people have been arrested in Noonu Manadhoo on suspicion of incest.

The police spokesperson said that the 45-year-old man and the 28-year-old woman were arrested yesterday.

Sources have told Sun Online that the man is the uncle of the 28-year-old woman...

We're left to assume they were arrested for having sex with each other. I have no idea if "uncle" means he's the brother of one of her biological parents, stepparent, or adoptive parent, or if he married one of her aunts. He could be an adopted brother to one of her parents, for all we know. Regardless, if there's no victim, it shouldn't be a crime. People should not be arrested for having sex with another consenting adult.