Multiplying Taboos

This blog is here to advocate for the rights of all consenting adults to be together how they mutually agree. Included in that is supporting ethical or consensual nonmonogamy. Unfortunately, because of lingering laws and prejudices about consanguinamory, many people can't be open about their attractions and experiences; cheating, which we do not advocate, can happen in such a negative environment as people do not feel free to discuss things openly and honestly with their partners, or anyone else for that matter. Again, we don't advocate cheating, but we recognize that some consanguineous sex does happen in the context of cheating. Still, there are things we can learn about relationships in general and consanguineous relationships especially by interviewing people who have had such experiences.

The man interviewed below is married to a woman and having a longtime secret affair with their biological daughter.

In much of the world, including all but a couple of US states,both the father and daughter could be criminally prosecuted for this, not for the cheating, but for having sex with each other.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what this man has to say. You may think his relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic and romantic; you might find the cheating to be unacceptable. But whatever your reaction, should this be a crime? If their spouses were agreeable, shouldn't they be able to be open about their relationship and even marry? Also, notice that aspects of the relationship are common to consanguineous relationships that don't involve cheating, too. We don't condone cheating, but even a relationship that involves cheating can help give an understanding of the dynamic of consanguineous relationships, as this is happening everywhere.


WARNINGS: Mildly explicit sexuality and cheating. 


*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourself.

Anonymous Father: I'm in my mid 50s, white, and an engineer. My hobbies include running, cycling, 3-D auto CAD design, first edition books and wine making.

FME: How did this start?

I've never spoken about this before. Things started when she was still a teenager. Nothing physical. She approached me one evening in tears. I thought she was pregnant! It turns out she had been watching me for over a year or so and how I act and treat her mother, her mother's friends, as well as her and her friends. She became interested in me as more than just her dad and that was bugging her a lot more than she was letting on. I had no idea.

So, not pregnant, but curious about me as a man, not a usual boyfriend, all of whom I did not like.

She very nervously approached me and in so many words said that she wasn't happy with her current boyfriend, wasn't happy with a previous boyfriend and such. I thought she was just venting and upset. When she said she was interested in me and the tears were of fear of possible anger and rejection from me.

FME: Had you ever thought about it before, in general or about her specifically? 

Yes I had, but I never considered that it would be acted out. She was very pretty. I had the odd fantasy of being with her, but just fantasies. So her asking me was unexpected. I was shocked to say the least, but also  not completely against the idea, which also surprised the life out of me. I mean, I now had an enormous amount of thinking to do here; ramifications of such a relationship, possible legal problems. The fact that I was even entertaining the idea was unreal.

I initially said that it wasn't a good idea, that it was maybe teenage hormones, there were too many potential problems the could arise. I was trying to show her why it wouldn't work. But in the back of my head, I was now thinking of what the positives were in this, and they were mostly selfish reasons on my part. She's cute and as I said, very pretty. She has a very attractive body and carries herself with confidence to this day. I was thinking of what it would be like to be with her physically. I guessed that she wasn't a virgin. No matter.

For a year or so we would talk about it, considering things, possible outcomes, the trouble we could get in, things like that. She wasn't forcing or coercing, and neither was I. I was still trying to find reasons to not get involved in this. Maybe she would find another boyfriend or girlfriend to get her mind off of me? That wasn't happening. But it was a learning experience for me to watch her state her mind and the amount of thinking she had put into this.

FME: So this was something you both carefully considered over time. Was there a single “first time” or did you ramp up the affection over multiple encounters?

Yes, this was something I had to consider carefully. We both did. Many, many conversations, just talking about her self esteem and her thoughts on being more than interested in me. And on top of that, I was thinking very hard about this becoming a possibility. She was and is so very pretty, and I found myself thinking of her as more than more just my daughter. And also, I was thinking of the relationship with my wife and how that could end very, very badly if we ever got caught.

I love my wife. She is everything to me. So my thoughts were scattered and all over the place.

So yes, over about a year we carefully considered things. What made it all too real for me was a discussion where I asked her what she wanted for her birthday. She looked at me and said "you know what I want." We had shared a few longer hugs, some slight hands wandering, things like that. We were testing the waters.

Our actual first time was a Sunday where we had the house to ourselves. My wife was at a conference which went all weekend and Monday. My daughter was in her housecoat and we were in the kitchen getting breakfast, and I just took the initiative and suggested that maybe it was time to move forward in our relationship. I was so scared.

I suggested in the kitchen that we go to her room and see what would happen, although we both knew what was going to happen.The fear I had in removing her housecoat was almost overwhelming, revealing a young goddess. We lay on her bed just staring at each other for a long while, not moving or talking. We were waiting for the other to make the first move. 

As I recall, I touched her cheek and whispered something like "You sure you want to do this?". She put her hand on my chest. That's how we started; an awkward touch. We explored each other slowly and gently. A kiss became another and another. Inhibitions were lowered even more as we caressed each other. After about an hour of this, I gave her an orgasm with my fingers. Then the tears came from her. I asked if I had hurt her or should we stop. That would have been difficult but I still asked. 

Her response was to pull me on top of her and eventually inside her. This was overwhelming. I kissed away her tears as we made love fully. I was inside her for about ten minutes. She didn't have another orgasm. I suggested pulling out to finish but she whispered that she was on birth control. My orgasm was very intense. 

After we finished, we just held each other, sort of shell shocked with what had just happened between us. I was thinking of the previous year and everything that had happened between us which brought us to this moment.

There are a few things that have stuck with me from that first time to this day. The mixed look of joy and uncertainty on her face as I slid her robe off her shoulders, and watching myself penetrate her along with the noises she made as that happened.

It was very quiet, very intimate and incredibly powerful. We were both working on so many emotions and feelings at this point. She cried a lot, something to this day she still does. Tears of joy, tears of sadness. She cries. It's beautiful.

After we had finished and cleaned up, we tried to avoid each other for a few days and get back back to our usual lives and routines. That's very difficult in a house with only three people. I took the initiative and picked her up after school and we went for hot chocolate and to discuss what had happened and figure out what to do next. 

She was convinced that I was the right man for her life despite being her father but was unprepared for the emotional feelings. I was deeply concerned in this. She should have a proper boyfriend who could take care of those needs. She reminded me that the last two of those were a--holes who treated her in a way that angered me. 

From my view, I had just cheated on my wife so I had that to work through; something I still do to this day. But I also consider myself open-minded enough to see that something beautiful had happened between the two of us, and I wanted to explore this again. Of course, I didn't mention that to my daughter. I was also hoping that things would not continue between us as the nervous parent was concerned about legal ramifications, discovery, things that anyone entering this type of relationship must consider fully.

She loves me. I love her. We talked about feelings: emotional, physical and mental in regards to what we had done. She said she felt safe with me, and wanted to feel that safety in my arms again. This lead to a talk about discretion and rules on when and where things could happen between us. I was being very overly cautious here, and so was she. But it was a good talk that lasted over many weeks in bits and pieces. This also allowed us to process fully what had happened between us.

FME: Is it a secret from everyone in your lives? She’s got a husband and as far as he knows, the children are his? I understand that in most places, if they were born during a marriage, the law considers the children his by default.

Yes and yes and yes. He believes the children are his, yes. Yes, they were both conceived and born when they were married. But as I said, they were struggling to conceive for about a year. Our first was an accident and after some serious research and planning, she decided to keep him. Then she asked me to help her conceive again. This was really heavy for me. An accident I could understand, but it was tough to wrap my head around getting her pregnant intentionally.

FME: Are the children healthy, as far as you know?

Both children are perfectly healthy and very happy. Check-ups with their pediatrician have been very good, no concerns at all. They are good kids and are really goofy and giggly. The boy is into running everywhere. He doesn't know how to walk! Too funny. He loves toy trains. The girl is around  two now and, despite her being a premature baby by almost two months, she is also very healthy. She's a smaller girl but so was her mother. She is into books with pictures, so we all read out loud to her; actually we read to both of them a lot. 

FME: How have the children changed things, if at all?

Having kids makes it a bit tougher to be alone but that also works to our advantage in a few ways. We are able to maintain the appearance  that we are just regular father and daughter. It also allows the next time to be that more spontaneous and enjoyable for the both of us, something to really look forward to. As her husband does some contract work out of town now and then, this does afford us time to be together intimately. It doesn't happen that often I'm sorry to say.

FME: How did things go when she ended up finding the man she married? Did you encourage her to do that? Did you approve of him? How did you feel about that?

My son in law is a super guy, excellent husband and a great parent. He loves his family completely.  She always seemed to struggle with boyfriends when she was younger. No respecting of her boundaries, or silly games that young men can play and she just was not into that. She even did some experimenting with girls but that didn't last long either. She wanted a boyfriend who would respect her on all levels of who she is. It was a difficult time for her and that's what made her turn to me as she knows and sees how much I respect and love her and her mother. She and I had been physical for a few years when the future son in law came into the picture. 

When he showed up, I liked him immediately. He was already forward thinking with his career and the work he was doing and he had a genuine love for her. My wife and I saw that immediately. I was happy for her. I honestly felt that we would stop seeing each other, and it was a little heartbreaking but necessary. I was a little torn when they announced a wedding date as I felt that I was going to lose her, but relieved as the risk shared between us would be ending, or so I thought. I became just her dad again and it was wonderful to watch them build a life in a little apartment. I was surprised when she approached me and said she missed me and that being with her would be all right if I wanted to. Of course I did! So after more lengthy discussions we began again, carefully, quietly and with lots of time between lovemaking. We always had to think of the bigger picture here. My wife and her husband, getting caught. And of course, pregnancies.

FME: How long has it been since your first time with her? And you sometimes go months without being together that way?

We started the physical aspect of our relationship about 13 years ago. Yes, for discretion and safety, we go months and months without making love. This is good as it allows us to help dispel any curiosities by other people who might be suspicious. Fortunately, we have never had any problems in that area. The other positive aspect is that when we do get time together, it always feels fresh and exciting like the first time. Knowing that I'll get to undress her, touch her and ultimately be inside her is beyond exciting for me. 

The idea that it might be months between times together is something we are used to. It is a reality we understand. I have no idea when my daughter and I will have time together again. This is how it is. We will take advantage of an opportunity when we can. As I said before, it's not that often for obvious reasons and for discretion of course.

FME: How does the sex with her feel compared to your other experiences?

The lovemaking is completely different in comparison to her and her mother. I love my wife and the sex is wonderful, and yes, there is a connection between us. But with my daughter the lovemaking has become deeply spiritual as we have worked through so many differing concepts of what is normal between couples; the legalities involved and the pressures of discovery. I find it's way more involved than what my wife and I have. We have made this journey together very carefully. Of course, creating two new lives together has been beyond incredible. Taking such an enormous risk is hard to put into words, but it was something we did together.

There is something I can't explain when I watch myself enter her body. The closeness and intimacy is unparalleled. Knowing that I'm going to give her enormous pleasure and also knowing I'm leaving something inside her. I can't put into words. I think of it this way: the same sperm that created her will soon be inside her. A bit of a mind screw. Every time we make love, she always looks into my eyes as I penetrate her. She seems to be looking for something in my face, my eyes. And I always try to watch myself as I penetrate her. It's beyond beautiful to become one person with her. I love the noises she makes. The joy we share is indescribable. That perfect dance with someone so close.

I remember discussing birth control with her when we first started and she was already on the pill, which helped. But we had a serious discussion regarding the "what if" scenarios should something like a pregnancy occur. She was very forward thinking in this.

She was and still is a very practical thinker in all matters, something she comes to honestly by her mother. She's a passionate woman even still, loving our times together and telling me how much she enjoys feeling me ejaculate inside her body. Emptying myself inside her again is as close to spiritual perfection as I can get. She loves feeling that happen enormously.

I am always amazed at how much I produce when I orgasm with her. It's way more than with my wife, who also makes me really go as well. 

FME: What would you say to those who’d say you’re preying on her?

I won't point fingers or argue with anyone. All I can say is that she originally approached me and we both took almost a year of heavy discussions before we did anything physical with each other. She was not a small child, but a young woman who knows how to think forwardly. Her virginity was gone when she was 15. I had nothing to do with that. We started together with eyes wide open. And if I'm preying on her, please explain why after she got pregnant she wanted to keep our son; why did she approach me about giving her another child? The trust between us was and is perfect. The ongoing discussions we have are always huge but are necessary. She can't conceive with her husband, and she wanted children.


FME: Has making love with her improved your relationship as father and daughter, and if so, how? Or has it essentially ended it and made this a hookup situation?

Our lovemaking has definitely improved our relationship. We are very close already but having the physical aspect has made us that much stronger together. It is breathtaking to become one person with my daughter. She will never admit that she's a "daddy's girl" but at times she is. We talk about everything, even some of those things that dads and daughters won't, for modesty or personal discretion's sake. For example, I know all about her monthly cycle and she trusts me enough to discuss that. When we're alone and not in a sexual situation, we still discuss the children and what would be best for them. I know she has the same talks with her husband, but I appreciate that I can be quietly involved. The trust we share is amazing. Sexually, we trust each other implicitly. This has allowed us some beautiful and very spiritual times together. We have explored certain areas of our sex life as a couple and it's been amazing. And of course, we have weathered some storms as well, but that communication we share has helped us through those tough times.

This will never be a hookup situation. We're too invested in each other at this point. It's not just the sex, it's the whole package; physical, mental, spiritual, everything.

Personally, the way I treat both my wife and daughter and how they treat me has made me the better man. I want to be always there for them both, and not just sexually. I run and bike a lot, and I hit the weights when I can. I read a lot of books and try to teach myself new things that would help me in my relationships with both of my women. I listen to them both and act accordingly in a way that would show respect and build them up and give them even greater confidence.


FME: Are you conflicted at all about this being a secret from your wife? How would you react if, for example, you found out your wife was secretly with a younger man? Or if she came to you And said she’s wanted to have your agreement to her taking a new lover?

I have had a very small conflict over the years but it helps that my daughter and I don't see each other that often. My conflict is that my wife can't have anymore children and my daughter and I have taken two incredible risks together with beautiful results. I know I would be upset if I found my wife with a younger man but I can't say too much based on what I'm currently doing and with whom. If she approached me regarding a new lover? Again, I'm already with a younger lover so it might be a short chat indeed! Fortunately my wife and I have a very satisfying relationship sexually. Since she is reaching the menopausal time in her life, her demands on me have been rather intense and lengthy. She is enjoying herself greatly, her hormones and appetites have not diminished but have increased. I know that she does not suspect anything in regards to what my daughter and I have become and what we have accomplished together.

FME: Do you think taking up with your daughter has improved things with or for your wife, taken away from her, or had no effect?

As we have been very discreet, my wife and I have had a satisfying life together with no effects. Being with my daughter has made me the better man, and I have been able to work that into my relationship with my wife. She loves and cherishes her grandchildren. She was deeply concerned over our daughter and son-in-law's inability to conceive and was very helpful when both pregnancies happened. She played the Mom card perfectly, very concerned and considerate but still distant as to not be annoying or overbearing to them both. She wanted her girl to be healthy through each pregnancy. Despite her being unaware who the real father is, she was wonderful.

I do love them both. I know it should be difficult having them both, but the only struggle I face is discovery. Making time with my daughter is the only obstacle, but jealousy and guilt are no where to be found. I find that very interesting. After all of this time, my love for my daughter is still equal to the love I have with my wife.

FME: What advice do you have for fathers or daughters who want to get together; daughters who want their fathers and fathers who want their daughters?

Communication is key. The first talk will always be the hardest, but if the person who is wanting to initiate such a relationship starts by asking the other to listen with an open mind and heart, and can see, hear, and feel the the emotions portrayed, that will be very helpful. Having an open mind is always a good thing. My daughter was in tears when she first approached me; she was terrified that I would lash out, get angry, call her names like "sick" or "deranged" and "confused". I didn't know what was coming, but her whole demeanor required my complete, open and honest attention.

Then time is the next step. Talking through something this serious will require many months of communication, and careful planning of all potential consequences, pregnancies being the biggest example. Common sense is always a good thing. Think of places where you can be intimate safely and without discovery. Use of birth control, unless your plans include children together. Lastly, please recognize that what is starting is extremely beautiful for both. Trust is necessary. Ignore what society says and thinks. This is between the two in question, no one else needs to find out. Discretion is the biggest hurdle.


FME: Is there anything else you want to say?

Despite what society would say, what my daughter and I are doing and have done is beyond astounding. We have taken an enormous risk and have seen, felt and touched the results so clearly. I would tell anyone who has an interest in this type of relationship to explore it very carefully. It is simply beautiful.

*****

This is almost the most taboo things can get between consenting adults, because on top of the cheating, consanguineous sex between father and daughter gets, perhaps, the most prejudice, and even people willing to concede that consenting adults who aren't cheating should be allowed their sex lives might still object to them having children.

Morality aside, one of the problems with cheating is that being discovered by your partner(s) can be disastrous, and when your relationship is still criminalized where you are, an angry, scorned partner might involve law enforcement. If you want to live out a polyamorous life, this might help.

One thing this interview makes clear is that just because someone appears to be (or actually is) in a happy "regular" relationship, even a longtime marriage, doesn't mean they don't have sex with a close relative. It is happening everywhere. It is happening somewhere not too far from where you are right now.

In general, there's no good reason to criminalize or discriminate against consanguinamorous relationships, and removing unjust laws and stigmas will reduce cheating. We need to recognize that all adults should be free to be with any and all consenting adults as they mutually consent, and part of doing that is adopting relationship rights for all, including full marriage equality sooner rather than later. People are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here. As you'll see, there are people from all walks of life who are in consanguinamorous relationships.

If you are in a consanguineous and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.
If you want to be interviewed about your "forbidden" relationship, connect with me by checking under the "Get Connected" tab there at the top of the page or emailing me at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com.

If you know someone who is in a relationship like this, please read this.

Thank you to Anonymous for doing this interview! We hope that your consanguinamorous
intergenerational relationship doesn't end up hurting your wife or son-in-law, who are the innocent bystanders. We wish things were different so that there was no cheating involved and everyone who wants to be together could be so without hiding, but that's not where we are yet and that's not how things were done, but we can still learn from what has happened.

UPDATE: His daughter tells her side.

UPDATE December 28, 2020