A French Connection

We have another exclusive interview to bring you. 

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. Most can’t even be out of the closet or they’ll face persecution and prosecution under absurd incest laws, which, instead of focusing on abuse, also target consensual relationships.

The couple interviewed below should be free to legally and publicly marry, or simply be together without having to hide, yet they can’t. Prejudice can be deadly. They are consenting adults; why should they have been denied their rights? In much of the world, they could be criminally prosecuted for loving each other this way, and might be persecuted severely in addition.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what they have to say about the love they share. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic, but whatever your reaction, should lovers like these be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

Also please note that someone you love, respect, and admire could be in a similar relationship right now. Should they be attacked and denied rights because of the "incest" label? 

NOTE: This interview has some sexually explicit descriptions inherent to the interviewees’ life experiences and development.

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FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourselves.

Emma: My family is English, but we’ve been living in France for over 20 years. We originally lived near London and moved to Paris because of my dad’s work. 

I’m 26 years old, caucasian, blond, green eyes. I’m 5’ 3” and not excessively athletic as I do my best to keep my weight down. That’s hard in France with all the delicious food, so I’m not skinny, but sort of a normal sized person.

My mum and dad raised me. They were always both present for me right from the start, sharing my upbringing, my education. When I was younger, my parents both worked in London, so sometimes it was my mum who came home first to pick my brother and I up from school, sometimes it was my dad when my mum was working late.

I did the major part of my education here in France - given that when I arrived in France aged six, I didn’t speak or understand a word of French, but now I’m fully bilingual, which is a great advantage when working with international clients. Jobwise, I’m a PA for a Media Events company in Paris that works internationally. We organise PR and advertising events. And no, I’m no “Emily in Paris,” even if my colleagues and I have watched the series and laughed a lot about some of the PR campaigns featured in the episodes.

I like swimming. We have a pool. I like movies, concerts, traveling and nudism camping holidays.

I have an elder brother who is 28 years old, who also works in the same company but in the Events Logistics Department.

John: I’m from a middle class family from London. I met my late wife at school, we fell in love and when I was 20 and she was 19, we had our first child / our son - then Emma a couple of years later. Yes, we were a bit young to become parents, but we somehow made it work, thanks to the help of our parents. 

My father worked in import/export so I naturally got a job with him, moving up over the years, before taking over from him. I work in import/export of electronics, hifi and other audio/video equipment. Then I had a business opportunity to move to France and take over an office in Paris. I’m nearly 49, already a silver fox as some say; quite tall, I swim and play tennis to stay fit. 

We own a nice family house on the outskirts of Paris, with quite a bit of land and a small forest all around. I bought it while looking for a quiet and secluded area to get away from the busy Paris work environment. 

I’ve been very fortunate with my investments, giving my family enough to live a very comfortable life and little worries about money.

I’m a real geek for technology and gadgets, going to specialized exhibitions - for work, but also to get to see all the new stuff - I like doing nudism camping. We did this a lot back then with my late wife before we had our kids and later with them too, first at some campsites in England, then in France. One outside Paris, another in the South West and our favorite one in the South of France at the Cap d’Agde naturism center.

FME: Are you married or have you ever been legally and/or ceremonially married? 

Emma: No. Not married. Incest is not against the law in France, as long as it’s not between an adult and a minor under 15 years old, so legally we are allowed to have our relationship, even if public morality and stigma would not accept us.  Marriage is not allowed - officially.

That said, when we go away on holiday and people call us Mr. and Mrs. “family name”, it does make me feel good, but a bit strange because Mrs. “Family Name” was always for my mum before.

For now, we don’t feel the need to do any real form of ceremony to officialize our love. Unless one day my dad does feel the desire to have a sort of celebration moment, knowing that we’ll not have much of a crowd to share it with!

John: I was married to my late wife for nearly 28 years, our relationship was sweet and loving. I was devastated when she passed away and didn’t imagine I would ever find anybody to replace her. Until I realised that this person had been in my life all along. Emma already shares our family name so doesn’t change much there. Legally nothing can be done until the laws allow this. We can only play pretend and hope that no situation will come up that would draw attention to our status.

FME: How would you describe your genders? How would you describe your sexual orientation and your relationship orientation... are you heterosexual, bisexual, what? Are you monogamous, polyamorous, or....?

Emma: Heterosexual. I’ve never had any interest in women. I’ve had previous experiences with other men and sometimes several at the same time. I’ve even had sex with a couple of gay men - friends of mine who wanted to know what it was like to have sex with a woman - we all had a lot of fun and pleasurable moments, but it didn’t make them switch sides.

John: Bisexual. Tried a bit of everything in my youth and liked both men and women indifferently. Then I met my wife. We did have some swinging adventures, lots of sex parties, she with other men, and I, too, with some men and women, but it was only recreational, nothing serious. I truly loved my wife and her kinky side, something Emma has inherited. I’m now monogamous with her. I don’t yet know if my son would like to take some part of our consang relationship, that remains to be seen. If so, I will gladly welcome him.

FME: You currently live with...?

Emma: Him, my biological father.

FME: You are in a sexual/romantic relationship with your biological father. What was your childhood like? What was family life like? Were alternative lifestyles/sex discussed in your family, and if so, how? Can you describe your sexual awakening?

Emma: My childhood was a happy one. My brother and I squabbled a lot but it was great to have a brother close to my age. We each had our own room, hobbies, toys, different interests and friends. 

There was our life in England and then a radical change when we came to France; two different cultures and languages. 

My memories of my English life are limited because I was quite young, so they are more like scattered images and impressions. The parks where I liked playing, my childhood friends, the birthday parties, school and all the other extracurricular activities, such as dance class, tennis, music lessons, horse riding..  It was hard to leave everything behind, losing contact with my friends and all the environment I knew. It was the same thing for my brother, too. At least we had each other.

We felt very lonely for quite a while. We were trying to learn the language, settle in a new country, find our place in school, trying to make friends, not understanding TV programs. We only had each other to play with for a long time as our dad was working in Paris and mum was busy setting up our life, managing the administrative aspects, and learning the language.

But after about six months, it finally clicked and it was as if suddenly we understood French overnight. We arrived during the middle of the school year, not being able to follow the regular lessons but by the following school year, we had settled in, and each made friends, who were curious about the new english kids in school, as we were the only ones.

I don’t recall actual conversations about sex with either of my parents. My mum always said I was a bit of a “know all”, sometimes just knowing things instinctively. 

My sexual awakening… I think the word that defines my sexual education is “curiosity” as I was always eager to learn and curious of every type of experience.

When I was quite young, I remember seeing lots of books in my parents library shelves, many of them were mostly for adults and not at all for children. I read lots of my mum’s Jackie Collins books that had sex scenes that caught my curiosity and made me feel a bit naughty reading books that were not meant for children. I read a lot of adult books so I learned a lot about things that way as a child. 

When I was nine, my brother and I were playing in our caravan at the naturism campsite. We were naked, which is normal on the campsite, and we got bored and started tickling each other; I grabbed his little c—- and rubbed it. He liked that and he did the same to me, rubbing me. We were both still a bit young to orgasm, but it did give us lots of pleasure and sent shivers through our bodies.

I asked him if I could kiss it and give it a lick, curious about the texture and taste. It was so soft and warm, just before getting a bit harder. I was fascinated by this, as he closed his eyes and seemed to appreciate it, making little noises and telling me to keep on, I really started sucking it like a lollipop. There was a clear liquid that did come out of it, I thought he was peeing and didn’t like this at all, even if it didn’t smell or look like pee,… but I did taste it.

My brother wanted to taste me too and I thought “why not?” A warmth took over and I started getting excited, panting from the pleasure I was feeling. My brother was taking a closer look at me. rubbing me. This felt lovely and strange, mostly making me giggle. I asked him where he learnt all this and he told me a friend of his had [an adult] DVD and that he and his friends had watched it. I didn’t know what that meant, so he told me and said he would try to borrow the DVD sometime to show me. 

And this is how I discovered sexual relationships between family members.

The DVD was a French Marc Dorcel production. He’s a renown French [adult] movie producer. The story remains a bit vague to me, because nobody pays much attention to the story, just the action, but there were a few scenes that I do remember and it concerned a father wearing a disguise and a mask to attend a sex party. The lady who organized it knew the daughter and father would both be there and arranged for them to meet up, enticing him to go with his daughter and f—- her in front of all the other swingers at the party, who were also f—-ing. He knew who she was straight away, but she didn’t recognize him at first and it was when they removed their masks that they saw each other and, if anything, f—-ed even harder, with her crying out “daddy” when she came.

I was shocked because I had never even imagined a father and daughter would do this, not to mention this was also the first time I got to see people having sex. I didn’t even know the word “Incest” back then nor that this was something forbidden or taboo. I just remember feeling funny about it and mostly fascinated by the detailed close up shots of people. trying to understand what they were doing. But as they seemed to get lots of pleasure from it from their moans and cries of joy, I liked it and liked the naughty aspect of secretly watching [an adult] movie. My brother insisted we were not to tell our parents, but as of now, my dad knows.

So, it may have been a defining moment for my sex life to come, as this was my very first example of sex relations and what a coincidence that it was the father/daughter aspect that I recall after all this time.

I had many other occasions to watch [adult movies] as a minor, every year on New Year’s Eve, after midnight, French TV used to show soft [adult] movies. And while my parents were out partying, I was sneaking away to watch these films, keeping the sound down. Then my brother was able to sneak out some more from his friend's big brother's collection, so we got to see all sorts of [adult] videos. All this really fueled my curiosity.

Of course, my family doing nudism right from when I was young meant that I was already more accustomed to seeing people naked as well as their genitals, my family’s too. But it’s one thing seeing them unaroused compared to a more aroused state. And what didn’t excite me before, suddenly became more interesting and arousing as I became a teenager.

I’d had sex-ed classes at school, something that always makes teenagers feel uncomfortable and giggling whatever the nationality, so I knew about the bees and the birds, as well as the need for boys to wear protection. The classic teaching us how to roll a condom on a banana in class was awkward but at least we knew how to do it. And for girls to take the pill to avoid unwanted pregnancies.

And yet, even with the knowledge of how to be careful, I did occasionally forget this. One summer when I was 14, hanging out with a group of friends at the naturism campsite, there was one boy of my group, 17 years old, that I’d started dating and one afternoon, leaving the others on the beach, we went back to his small caravan to get some drinks and food for the others, and ended up having sex on his caravan bed. This was my very first time. I was surprised that his actual penetration didn’t hurt as much as I had expected, as I had been told it would, and I didn’t bleed. He was inexperienced, but very sweet, although a bit nervous. I think we both were.

The pleasure came progressively and although I didn’t have an orgasm that first time, I did feel little waves ripple up and down my body. He didn’t last that long, as he was still in his learning phase, and the very first error was that he came inside me. I didn’t think much about it at the time, not immediately freaking out imagining I was going to get pregnant, but later that day, when telling my girl friends that “I had finally done it”, and mentioned him ejaculating inside me, they freaked out and got me really worried, so we started counting the days between my cycle. Fortunately, I was in the safe period and didn’t get pregnant.

I didn’t tell my parents that I had had sex. I wanted to keep this new experience to myself. But I did ask my mum if I could start taking birth control pills, which more or less told her I was starting to get intimate with boys.

After my first time, my vision of things changed. Suddenly, I viewed people as sexual beings, and this included my father. I didn’t pay much attention to my mum, but I do remember observing with more interest men's [genitalia] as well as my dad’s too. His was circumcised; not Jewish, just for more cleanliness... I remember wondering what it would be like to [fellate him and see it erect].

I also recall once sitting on his lap when we were both naked and I could feel it. It felt nice but I was so sure he would feel me throbbing on top of him. I don’t know if he felt uncomfortable, but he quickly asked me to get up and sit on a seat; I do recall having strange weird feelings about being naked close to my dad. Not nasty ones, just feelings that I couldn’t identify. 

At home, we were in a different environment where everyone was always rushing from one thing to another. The only other times where my body was in contact with my dad was when we went swimming in our pool, sometimes wrestling and playing tag, grabbing body parts, accidently pulling on swimming costumes, when we were not swimming naked.

Then my mum fell ill, and we went back and forth between doctor's visits and hospital until she got worse and the treatments didn’t work.

When she died away, we stopped going to the campsite. Her passing hit our family really hard, taking away the joy and casting a grey cloud all over us. Silence became awkward, no longer wanting to spend time together. We all grieved in our own way. My brother became more distant, spending less time at home, I did more or less the same, and we each became oblivious of the others sadness. We didn’t know how to talk about it, just going through the everyday mundane motions like emotionless robots. It was a very dark period for me at 16.

FME: How did sexual affection become a part of the relationship?

John: I’d say it happened gradually, even if I’d already had thoughts about my daughter when she was a teenager, especially when naked at the naturism campsite, watching her body change, her breasts growing bigger, her getting her pubic hair, her body changing from a child to a young lady. And I know she started looking at me. She thought I didn’t notice, but I’m her dad and I know my daughter. I was flattered to see her interest in me but also terrified by what it implied and the awakening arousal I had at that time. Because of the taboo and forbidden aspects, I did my best to keep control of my feelings, as well as my hard-ons, because arousal is immediately visible when you are naked. 

My daughter was - and still is - gorgeous, sexy, bubbly and funny. She had a large group of friends, both at home, as well at the campsite, so she was often out all day and evenings too with them. Up to a certain age, I’d imposed a curfew hour when she had to be back and if she was late, I went out to look for her and brought her back. Generally speaking, she was good and kept out of trouble. The other kids were a nice group from good backgrounds and not into any risky business

So I had to hide these ideas and secret desires, putting them down as crazy fantasies that would only stay that way.

She grew up, had her own life, had sex, never telling me or my wife about what she did, but we trusted her to do the right things and nothing too mad. She did flaunt her body around the house as a teen, oftentimes barely dressed or very sexily, not helping my arousal control. I confess that I did [think about her]. Emma did bring back home her boyfriends and I could hear them having sex in her bedroom. These sounds only fueled my fantasies as my imagination pictured the scenes.

When Emma got into university, she wanted to start sharing an apartment with her friends. I couldn’t blame her. Since my wife had died, we didn’t connect as we did before. 

Losing my wife also meant I lost the love of my life as well as my best and constant friend who had been there with me through good times and bad. This left me to manage everything and the kids. There was no time or energy for sex or going out with friends, that would invariably make me realize someone was missing and not wanting to socialize. So I understood that both Em and her brother both wanted to find some joy and get away from home. 

Them leaving, left me all alone with my memories, the souvenirs of lost desire and my fantasies ran wild. I did finally take up some hobbies, work did help me a lot too and the kids did come back to visit me, calling often to catch up and share insight on their lives, sometimes for parties in the garden and pool with their friends, giving me a good observation post to watch them have fun. 

This went on for about six years or so, giving me time to get over the grief but still not ready to get back in the saddle of romantic relations - not to mention sex. During those years, I masturbated a lot, watched [adult videos], read a lot of sex stories; books, novels and online sex story sites. Invariably I’d mostly get turned on by the ones referring to family love, daughters with their fathers, but not exclusively.

Then Emma came home. Breaking up with her fiancé - a great guy, until he wasn’t anymore, very disappointing. It was like a ray of sunshine lightened up our home again. I was happy to have someone home with me.

After a while, I started feeling more attracted to her presence. I began to have some thoughts about being even closer to her, inspired by some of the stories I continued to read and I had found a sex chat where other people, men and women, shared their experiences and gave their encouragement to me to do something, with some advice and ideas. But I was still terrified by the actual act of making it become real and scared of Emma’s reaction or rejection. However, I did have sort of a plan, wanting her to feel comfortable enough for me to mention my feelings for her, somewhat different to what a father normally should feel.

One day, she accidently came across the stories I had been reading online, as she had borrowed my laptop and I had forgotten to clear my browsing history. If anything, this error actually paved the way for our relationship more than I had expected. Because when she asked me about them, I said that they gave me lots of pleasure and encouraged her to read them too, as they were sometimes very interesting and could be inspirational.

This remark triggered her avid curiosity and I think that she did indeed read them and through what I had said, maybe made her understand the message I was trying to tell her.

Emma: I had never any previous ideas my dad had any sexual and/or romantic desire for me. He had obviously been very careful to not scare me, as he didn’t know I, too, had similar desires. Each one not wanting to jinx the other. 

The defining moment when we crossed over the forbidden line happened a few months after I had moved back home. 

Before that, I had been living with my fiancé and we had even started planning for a wedding the following year, thinking about having children and thinking about our future. Then one day, I came home earlier from work, not expecting him to come back from his job for at least a couple of hours or so. Only to discover him in our bed being vigorously serviced by a man; especially as they were not wearing any protection. I was beyond furious. Not by the fact that my fiancé was having this experience but that he was doing it secretly and not taking any safe precautions, meaning he could catch something and pass it to me. But mostly because he had cheated on me. I confronted him when the other guy scampered off and discovered he’d been doing this for a few months, and only now that he’d been caught out, started feeling guilty. I packed my bags and left, telling him we were over, he’d broken the trust I had in him and I felt stupid not seeing anything all the time while he was cheating behind my back.

I went back home to find some comfort and healing with my dad.

John: One evening, we had drunk maybe a bit more than usual. A colleague of mine had given me a really good bottle of strong liquor, and we had drunk a big part of it - in England, we call this “social lubrification” as booze does help English people relax and socialize a bit easier at pubs.

Emma and I settled down to watch TV, sitting next to each other and I went to cuddle her, just like back in the days when she was younger, putting my arm around her neck and over her shoulders and she nestled up against me. On TV there was a film with lots of romantic scenes, kissing and some rather raunchy sex scenes. I sensed that Emma was paying close attention to these scenes and at one point, I bent my head to kiss her, pulling her closer to me and instead of aiming for her cheek, I turned her head and kissed her lips, making my kiss linger and even snaking my tongue inside her mouth.

If she pushed back, I’d blame the booze and say I was drunk.

But she didn’t stop me. I felt her relax and dive right into my embrace as it got more intense and passionate. If anything, it unlocked any blocking points. We were both breathing heavily, my hands getting under her clothes to feel her body. I felt her buckle and ripple with pleasure, her tongue was still mingled with mine.

I was a bit dizzy with the strong waves of desire finally being satisfied. Emma snaked her hand down my trousers.

We started taking off our clothes. It was as if we were desperately hungry for each other. I continuously asked her if I could do such and such thing, wanting to make sure she agreed to everything. And each “Yes Daddy” only got me more aroused…

Being inside her felt so right, she fit like a glove, figuratively and literally…This was one of the most intense moments of my life. I had never loved her more than at that instant.

We spent the evening having sex, moving to the master bedroom and from then on, we couldn’t keep our hands off each other, like an addict hooked on to hard drugs; I didn’t know how long we’d keep up this physical love so I wanted to profit from it as long as I could. Luckily, Emma was hooked, too. We didn’t get much rest over the following days; I sent a message to work saying I was not feeling well and was taking some days off. Emma did the same thing. This gave us time to have as much sex as we physically could, connecting like never before, catching up on the missed communication of the previous years.

Emma: The evening when it all started, the alcohol did help us relax; obviously we hadn’t planned to start anything at a coordinated time. It was just a happy opportunity that we were both relaxed and that my dad made the first move, one that could pass as an innocent one if I had not been wanting it, but to feel his lips on mine, the texture of his tongue in my mouth, the sensuality of our closeness, the feeling of his hands on my body…sent shivers of pleasure up and down my skin and making me tingle and pulse in anticipation. I loved that he wanted to explore every part of my body in close detail. 

I adored giving him head. It was so weird to be doing this, thinking that I had come from the same [organ]. When he penetrated me, without a condom, wanting to feel his skin against mine, I was washed away by the intense feeling of pleasure. Totally different to anything I had previously experienced. He was like a missing puzzle piece that fit so perfectly inside me. He had way more years of experience with sex than me. And he put them all to action with me.

We got lost in our desire at that moment, really switching off any worries or concerns, losing all our inhibitions. Powerful, taboo, sex can have this effect. Any concerns about morals or what is right or wrong are ignored when you are caught up in something like that.

At that instant, the only thing that counted was us two, physically connected and wrapped around each other…Of course, I’m on the pill, so this removed any risk of getting pregnant at that moment. but frankly, given how far down the rabbit hole we were at that moment, even if I hadn’t been on birth control, I would have let him [stay] in me anyway.

The following days were exhaustingly delicious as it was just us two completely together, skin to skin, exploring each others body, testing what gave us the most pleasure. I was on an orgasm-high, not wanting to land.

FME: Before this had you ever thought this would be possible or enjoyable; did you have any opinion one way or the other about close relatives or family members being together?

Emma: Oh gosh, no. I presumed that if families really did do this, it was obviously because it was pleasurable but I had no idea it was so intense. If anything it's the ultimate family love experience because of how wonderful it feels. Each time we have sex, the level of connection between us is off the charts!

Apart from the few moments of discovery and exploration with my brother when I was younger, I’d never done anything like this with any other member of my family, until I took it much further with my dad.

John: Emma is the first family member I’ve had a relationship with. And no, I had no idea it was such a powerful feeling. Sex with my late wife was good, but not quite as good as what I’m living with my daughter. 

FME: How do you describe the sex/lovemaking now? Taboo? Natural? Especially erotic? Describe what your relationship now. Is it a marriage, a union, girlfriend and boyfriend, what?

Emma: Taboo, yes. Natural: also yes. Erotic: absolutely. If anything, I think that the taboo/forbidden aspect of it only makes it feel more intense. We have all been brainwashed to believe sex between family members is dirty, prohibited, forbidden and illegal. But we sometimes have the desire to not respect the rules, to reject imposed norms and wanting to break free from pre-established pre-conceived notions. Yes, our relationship is also somewhat kinky. In the first moments and over the first few months, we got lost in our desire, that took up all our free time. We’d have sex in the morning before going to work, and again and again when we got home in the evening, our weekends were with just the two of us. And yes, it clearly is the absolute best sex I’ve ever had. My fathers love for me is infinite and now he can prove it to me both physically and sexually.

I’d love for my brother to join us, so he too could have this experience. But this should come naturally for him, no feeling of obligation. We might try to titillate him and try to let him see what he’s missing out on a bit, we don’t want him to feel totally excluded from our family relationship. He watches us kiss, cuddle and heavily stroke each other when we’re all together at home. And maybe one day he’ll follow us to the bedroom, if not to participate but at least to watch, hoping it would please him and maybe, just maybe, make him want to be a more active participant. That would be simply wonderful.

As for our kinks, we’ve started going to sex clubs, wearing masks to not be recognised, especially around Paris, never knowing if we’ll bump into couples we know or work colleagues. It’s quirky that we are finally recreating the scene from that old DVD from my youth. We’re having sex together next to other people, and them ignoring we are daughter and father does arouse us a lot. We’ve also been back to the naturism camp in the South of France, as this Cap d’Agde resort is now way more hedonistic and libertine than back when I was younger. Sex in the nightclubs is accepted, even encouraged and people do have, a bit more discreetly, public sex or masturbation on the beach with others nearby watching. I suppose we have a slight streak of exhibitionism in us, but always hiding who we really are for each other. The fact that I really look like my dad can make people think and question what they might suspect. No doubt making them whisper their hunch to friends, hinting that we might be more than a regular couple.

Generally speaking, after nearly two years together now, we live like spouses but also as daughter and father. The dynamic between us has changed compared to before. At times, he still acts like a father, telling me off or scolding me when I do something that annoys him, but we never stay annoyed long. 

 

John: I actually like that this love is a bit taboo, as it only makes it more interesting. Right after our first time, there were some instances of guilt, because I could no longer go back to only considering Emma as just my daughter anymore. 

Just like toothpaste, once it’s out of the tube, you can’t put it back in again.

But then I thought about what I was really feeling and how could something that felt so good be so bad? If we were not meant to be, why did our bodies feel so much pleasure? Incest was forbidden by the church and authorities but was allowed among the European Royal Families, cousins marrying cousins, the Pharaohs got married within their own families, even Cleopatra was married to her own brother. So OK for them, but not for the commoners? Not fair. 

We now live as a couple, Emma is my lover and my daughter, inseparable.

We’ve probably had sex in most parts of the house, garden, garage and pool, except maybe the pool house, too many creepy crawlies for Emma…. She’s very vocal during our lovemaking, it’s like having a narrator for the blind, giving all the details of what’s happening, telling me what she’s doing, what she’s feeling and what she’s going to do, and telling me what she wants me to do. It does turn me on listening to her!

I’ve probably had more sex with her these past two years than back in my days when her mother was still with us. With Emma being younger and wanting very vigorous sex, this obliges me to keep in shape and it’s probably helping me stay young too. 

If anything, I regret not starting with her when she was a bit younger, especially now knowing that she also had this desire as a teenager. If only we were better at reading the signs and finding the courage to be more open together back then. So we are most definitely making up for lost time now.

We do have our differences at times, getting annoyed at each other. The other week, Emma got on my nerves, I shouted at her and suddenly I was back being the father but with a twist because I sent to her our bedroom, telling her to get undressed because I was going to spank her and she’d like it so much she’d ask me for more! This made her burst out laughing, sticking her tongue out at me and saying, “promises, promises…,” and this defused the tension. And I did get to spank her a bit later.

We do have “make up” sex, but not always. She does do things that annoy me sometimes, but we always work to smooth things out.

FME: Do you literally sleep together, or do you have separate beds? Does anyone in your life know the full, true nature of your relationship and how did they find out?

Emma: Do we sleep together? [Laughs] Just try and stop us! Yes, and as much as possible. And in my dad’s bed. But my bedroom is still made to look like it's occupied, for when friends and, occasionally, family come to visit. They all ignore what is going on. We’ve been extremely careful to hide our relationship. 

The only person who knows is my brother. After a few months with my dad, we decided to tell him. At first, he thought we were joking but when he understood that we were very serious, explaining our love, how it wouldn’t change the past, that we were committed to each other and didn’t want to hurt him. He seemed shocked and I had a long walk and talked with him, explaining how it happened, what we felt, how amazing it was and it was just a more intense form of family love. When I sensed him relax and seem to pay more attention to my explanations, I invited him to watch us make love, but only if he wanted to. This didn’t happen that day and so far, who knows if he’ll want to take a more active part sometime in the future. 

As for the other members of our family - cousins, uncles, aunts and grand-parents - they all live in England and don’t come that often to visit, but when they do, we make sure to keep ourselves in check to avoid them knowing.

I’ve not told my closest friends either. They have questioned me about why I’m still living with my dad and my answer is invariably, “because the house is big enough for both of us and because I’m keeping company to my dad who was lonely. But I’m also still ‘sore’ from breaking up with my fiance.” And not at all because I’m sometimes nearly “sore” from my dad’s ardent lovemaking!

For now, they seem to have accepted these explanations. And nobody at work seems interested in my family life. My worklife is too busy for there to be enough time to discuss our lives; we only discuss mundane subjects like movies, music, concerts and work.

FME: Having to hide the full nature of your relationship from some people can be a disadvantage. Can you describe how that has been? Are there any other disadvantages? Conversely, do you think consanguineous relationships have some advantages and some things better than unrelated lovers? Especially between father and daughter?

Emma: The secretive nature of a forbidden relationship is not easy to manage. It can be sometimes heavy to bear. This can be the disadvantage of this kind of love. Just like people from two opposing religions having to hide from their families, knowing they would not accept or agree.

You have to be constantly careful in public to not slip up and make a remark that would give away what's happening. Because the consequences would be drastic if revealed to the authorities, with legal implications, public outcry and losing everything. Of course, there might be some who might understand, appreciate and accept to keep the secret. But we’d have no absolute guarantee they would not mention it to some one else. The temptation to brag about knowing something naughty and secret can be hard to resist. So, we have to accept a certain level of sacrifice in order to be able to continue our life and love. In this case, we cannot have our cake and eat it, as they say. It’s a small price to pay in exchange for our love. And knowing that there is little chance that the public changes their mindset and learn to accept our lifestyle, letting us live our lives as we care, this will probably never happen soon enough for us.

The advantages? I’m closer to my dad than ever before. I totally trust him and his decisions, probabln more now than if I hadn’t been with him.

John: There’s a French expression “Pour vivre heureux, vivons cachés.” That translates as “to live happily, live hidden.” Some might be jealous of our love and others secretly desiring to have the same type of relationship. Of course, we also understand and accept that our choice of love can be a real turn-on for some, the taboo and erotic aspect of our forbidden relationship and sexual relations is arousing and titillating for others. Heck, it was for us too beforehand and for what it’s worth, it still is. 

The advantages: a closer, more tender relationship with my daughter. I’ve never had sex this good, I’m way more attuned to my daughter than ever before. I already had a very protective attitude towards her, never wanting to hurt her and that’s not changed one bit. And now, not only do I want to protect her even more, I want to please her more than ever. To be able to see her orgasm and feel so much pleasure from me making love to her is something so special. Something a “normal” relationship between a father and daughter can never reach. Now, I’m not going to say that our relationship can be qualified as “normal” or as it should be - because not everyone should live this, what makes it special is that it’s not a regular relationship. 

The disadvantages: to have to keep our love hidden from the rest of the world, when all we’d like to do is shout it out the whole wide world and show people that family love like ours is something beautiful and not a total perversity as they imagine it to be.

FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship? What's your reply to those who would say that this must be abusive, and that there couldn’t truly be consent; that he much be abusing you?

If you could legally marry, and that included protections against discrimination, harassment, etc., would you? Or is this a different kind of relationship than that?

John: I’d tell them to let us live our life as we wish. We’re not telling others how they should live their lives. Who are we to judge their preferences? We’d want people to respect our choice; we are doing no harm, we are not forcing anybody to do anything against their will. We are consenting adults, taking our own responsibilities and making our own decisions. 

There has never been any aspect of abuse. Some might say that as a father, I was imposing my natural authority on my daughter to convince her that this relationship is natural. This is simply not true. This might have been true for fathers back in my parents years, but since the women's liberation period, women are more free to do as they want now without taking into account the authority of their parents. My daughter has always been a free spirit right from her teens.

“Love has its reasons of which reason knows nothing.” as said by the famous French philosopher Blaise Pascal. And yes, if our relationship obtained official approval and global recognition with public and social acceptance, we would have loved to get married.

FME: What advice do you have for someone who may be experiencing these feelings for a relative or family member, especially their father or daughter?

Emma: What you are feeling is real; the emotions, the desire, the love and attraction. You should not be afraid of them. But you should question whether what you are feeling is simply arousal and desire or if it’s truly love that you want to take to another level. And you must consider what you are prepared to sacrifice to be true to this. Because actions have consequences, and they don’t always have a happy ending. I don’t want to sound negative but sometimes when you get exactly what you want, you can end up no longer wanting it or finding out it's not quite as good as you imagined. For all those who are fortunate to have a good experience of family sexual relations, there are some who have nothing but regrets afterwards. I really thought about my desire through and through, I weighed in the positive with the negative. 

If we accept to have a sexual relationship with someone who we are not related to, knowing that they might not love us forever, why should we not be allowed to do this with a family member who we know will love us until the end of time? It’s this dissonance that I find hard to understand.

So I’d say to a daughter feeling the desire to be with her father to remember: he’s not only your father, he’s also a man with feelings, desires, hidden fantasies and physical needs. You can always tell him about these feelings. 

If he shares them and is prepared to act on them, you will have the most amazing and intense love making ever. But it will change your relationship with your dad from then on as you’ll never see him the same way as before. And if you are very lucky, he’ll want to continue. 

But in the case where he’s not into this type of love, not feeling the same attraction to you, he’ll always love you whatever and will try to understand why you are feeling this way and will give you guidance. You might feel frustrated from this rejection but he’ll always be there for you. And who knows, if he starts thinking about you and your desire for him, he might eventually come around.

 

John: Any heterosexual man is always pleased to discover a woman fancies him, this flatters his ego. It can be slightly different when it’s your own child, but this discovery might change your way of looking at her and maybe with time, you’ll start finding some pleasure from this attention. 

However, if you are the only one with these feelings and that your daughter shows no interest, this can be very frustrating. 

Not to forget, that not all desires are meant to be fulfilled. Some fantasies are meant to remain so. 

So the secret is to figure out the difference between a sexual fantasy that gives you a hard on and a truly deep desire that pains you and makes you nearly cry from despair to not be able to do anything. This last one is true love.

FME: What advice do you have for family members and friends who think or know that relatives they know are having these feelings for each other? How can they support them?

John: That they should not reject people who choose to live differently, without listening to their explanations, because the why is just as important as the who and how. I don’t have the perfect recipe for perfect family relationships or how to make them happen. It's always different for each person.

Emma: At the end of the day, this is just a question of love. Not hatred, not war, not harm. Just another form of love - as love can take all sorts of shapes and forms. I would love the other members of my family to accept my relationship with my dad. This way, we’d feel more free to see them more often, not specifically demanding that they too have the same type of relationship. It’s not coercion, it's not abuse - it’s just love.

FME: Do you consider yourself at least partially consanguinamorous in orientation, or could you be fulfilled being in a relationship with someone who isn’t a close relative?

Emma: Partially? Oh goodness no! We are both consanguinamorous now and I feel very much fulfilled - pun unintended - by my dad. But not totally closing the door to maybe feeling the need to have a relationship with someone else someday. We don’t know what might happen in the future. 

FME: Have you met in-person or do you know anyone else who has experience with consanguinamory or consanguineous sex that you know of?

Emma: No, at least not that I really know of. Maybe some people around me are living like us, in secret. For now, we’d need a safe, secure and welcoming environment to enable us to open up with others; a place where families like ours could live their lives and their love out in the open. If there was a dedicated holiday resort of sorts, it would be a nice place to stay. I’ve often read about a fictional resort called “Jocasta”, mostly for mothers and their sons in relationships. The idea of such a place is fantastic, I just regret it doesn’t really exist. 

John: I did know a couple who turned out to be brother and sister. You would never have guessed this because they were very discreet and lived just like anybody else. Then again, we don’t all have horns on our head and warts on our face. 

Most people living a consang relationship are really just normal people, living their day to day life like everybody else - the only difference is their filiation and how and with whom they decide to have sexual relations with.

FME: Any plans for the future?

Emma: I don’t know when, but probably to have children together. We know that the idea of inbreeding can seem risky. We’d need to find a suitable doctor who would not out us to the authorities. There is also the life of the child to be taken into account, the impact of our relationship on the child’s upbringing, the hidden family secret that can be a burden on the child later on, even with the best intentions and later telling the child the truth. We would love to have children but only if we can be sure to fully protect them for the future.

John: I’ve already had two children, never imagining that one day I’d be considering having children with one of them. Strange world. But when Emma and I feel ready to seriously go down the path of parenthood together, I will be able to use my previous knowledge and experience for this. Making a child is the easy part, and pleasurable, but it’s a lifetime engagement - sometimes a bit more than originally planned -  so this must be thoroughly thought about beforehand.

FME: Anything else to add?

John: Yes, some advice. Sex in the shower. Looks sexy in movies. In reality, it’s way too slippery. So, get some nice antislip floor tiles, add some handle-bars to the sides of the shower and if possible, install a solid bench seat for more comfort. Then, hot wet sex can be fantastic and extremely sensual.

Emma: Many thanks to Keith and others like him, who are great listeners, understanding and accepting the various forms of love and supporting families like mine in their complicated love. We do hope the insight into our love and our life choices will be helpful to others who are still hesitating to do something. 

*****

Clearly, these are consenting adults, yet they can't even exercise their basic human rights as things are now. They are happy, yet they are denied fundamental rights. They can't even be open about their love without risking harassment or much worse.

Why should they be denied their rights? There’s no good reason. We need to recognize that all adults should be free to be with any and all consenting adults as they mutually consent, and part of doing that is adopting relationship rights for all, including full marriage equality sooner rather than later. People are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here. As you'll see, there are people from all walks of life, around the world, who are in consanguinamorous relationships. Some closely resemble “white picket fence nuclear family” relationships, or whatever the supposedly dominant local cultural ideal is, and others are somewhat outside of those paradigms.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.

If you want to be interviewed about your "forbidden" relationship, or that of someone you know, connect with me by checking under the "Get Connected" tab there at the top of the page or emailing me at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com or on Wire messaging app at fullmarriageequality, X/ Twitter at FullMEquality, or Facebook. I usually check for private/direct messages and respond in less than a day, so if I don't it might mean your message didn't get delivered.

If you know someone who is in a relationship that's anything like this, or "taboo" or "forbidden," please read this.

Thank you, Emma and John, for telling us about your intergenerational consanguinamorous relationship. We wish you both well!