Consanguinamory and Reproduction

One of the most common reasons given to object to the right to consanguineous relationships is what I call the "mutant baby" argument. Even some people who support the right to consanguinamory and have even engaged in consanguineous sex themselves join with bigots in being strongly against close relatives having children together because of prejudiced backlash or the increased risk of birth defects.

In regards to the prejudiced backlash, the answer is not to let bigots have their way. It is for bigots to lose their power to bully, prosecute, and break up homes. Don't want children of consanguineous parents to have a hard time? Do not give them a hard time.

In regards to the increased risk of birth defects, scientific understanding is often lacking.

Most sexual encounters do not result in a birth. Many people who have relationships or marry never have genetic children together; some people in consanguinamorous relationships choose not to. So, we must recognize the differences between sex, marriage, parenting, and reproduction, and not ban the first three because of concerns about the last one.

But let's deal with that last one.

Most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant birth defects or other genetic problems; while births to other parents do sometimes have birth defects. There are happy, healthy, bright, attractive people born to close relatives who are productive members of society. We all know some, whether we know it or not, and whether they know it or not. It is that common. (Sometimes, they were conceived by an abuser, but often, not by an abuser but by mutual lovers.) We don’t prevent other people from marrying or deny them their reproductive rights based on increased odds of passing along a genetic problem or inherited disease. For example, it is entirely legal in the US and most other places for someone with Huntington's Disease to date, have sex, marry, and have genetic children. How can such rights be denied to people who are genetically healthy, simply because they are close relatives?

It is true that in general, children born to consanguineous parents have an increased chance of genetic problems than those born to nonconsanguineous parents, but the odds are still minimal. (UPDATE: Please see this wonky elaboration written by a Friend of FME.) There are US states and there are countries where consanguinamory is not illegal or at least it isn't prosecuted. Sweden will legally marry half-siblings in some circumstances. A comparison of the rate of genetic problems in these places to places that criminalize and actively prosecute consanguinamory reveals no discernible increase in genetic problems in the places that embrace this relationship right.

If a natural talent or gift runs in the family, the children born to consanguineous parents will be more likely to inherit and manifest that beneficial result as well; a birth benefit. But there are increased odds of problem with births to older parents, too. There's no stigma assigned to that, and it isn't illegal for older people to date, have sex, marry, and have genetic children together.

Anyone concerned about these things should have genetic testing and counseling. People who are not close relatives can pass along health problems, too.

The "birth defects" argument also implies that people with disabilities or some other birth defect are living lives so terrible that they should never have been born at all. Yet, there are many such people who are leading happy, fulfilling, productive lives.

But a current problem, in some (not all) cases, is that in giving birth, consanguineous parents will be outing themselves to someone who is prejudiced, and there will now be evidence of their (in some places) illegal love that can be used against them.

There are consanguinamorous parents happily raising their healthy children together. But some consanguinamorous relationships face very real threats. Again, the answer is to stop the persecution and prosecution. There is no good reason to deny consenting adults their equal protection of having their relationship and reproductive rights.

Consanguinamorous or not, anyone engaging in heterosexual intercourse should be aware of the possibility of pregnancy, the various forms of birth control and other options available, and the realities if pregnancy, birth, and raising children.

UPDATE: Jane has a great essay on these topics here.

With all of that in mind, let's look at this thread on a consensual incest discussion board. (The discussion is explicit, so if you have a problem with that, you are warned.)

carebear82 wrote…

Myth: I Don’t Know Anyone Who Has Experienced GSA

Reality: You might not know of them experiencing Genetic Sexual Attraction, but chances are, there is someone in your life who has experienced GSA.

Think it through. Someone experiences reunion GSA in up to 50% of all introductions/reunions of close genetic relatives who were not raised together or by one another, provided the genders and sexual orientations are compatible. Think of all of the people in your extended family and circle of friends, your classmates, coworkers, neighbors, fellow members of clubs or religious congregations, and the people who regularly provide you with a service or are a regular customer of yours. You might not know it in every case, especially since people might want to keep these things private, but a few of them are adopted or gave a child up for adoption, a few were conceived by sperm or egg donation or provided sperm or egg donations, a few were separated from a parent (and often half siblings) due to divorce or breakup or the relationship being a fling, one night stand, or affair. So some of them have had a genetic parent, child, sibling, aunt, uncle, nephew, or niece from whom they were separated enough that if, and when, they were introduced or reunited post-puberty, someone experienced GSA.

Just because one person experiences GSA doesn’t mean it is reciprocal. Even if reciprocated, it might not lead to consanguinamory. Even if it leads to consanguinamory, you might not find out about it.

There are certainly famous people you know of, perhaps even admire, who have experienced GSA.

The mobility of human beings has increased dramatically with transportation innovations, systems, and affordability. Gamete and embryo donations have become an increasingly common reality. Those things have meant more people maturing separated from close genetic relatives. Social networking is bringing people together, as is the same increased mobility that had them apart. These things mean more people experiencing GSA.

Since GSA almost always involves some pain (even if only due to external prejudice), people who experience it need compassion, not condemnation.

If you know or think it is possible that someone specific in your life has dealt with GSA, this might be of some help.

Even if you don't personally know anyone who has experienced GSA, shouldn't all adults have their rights when it comes to their relationships?

See Myth: People in GSA Relationships Don’t Need the Freedom to Marry

How Parents of Dating Siblings Can Help

Someone asked about this at this blog’s sister Tumblr [which no longer exists]. Since that post isn't available right now, I've added it here.

1. First and foremost, never out them to anyone against their will. There’s deadly bigotry against the consanguinamorous.

2. ASK them how you can be supportive. Everyone is different, after all. They might need you to help with their cover stories. They might want you to refer to them only by their first names, not as your son or daughter, in front of certain people. Maybe they need you to run interference between them and others in the extended family.

3. If you find what they’re doing “icky,” don’t say that to them. Think about it. Would you want someone else telling you that YOUR love life is icky?

4. If you’re willing to listen to them talk about their relationship, let them know that. Consanguinamorous people often feel alone and like they have nobody to talk with honestly about their love. However, make it clear you’re not going to pick sides if they quarrel.

5. Especially if they’re younger and depending on where you live, they might need your help in obtaining contraception.

6. If they need privacy for a date, give it to them. That might be letting them date at your place, even if they don’t live there, while you’re making yourself scarce.

7. If they don’t know that you know, signal your willingness to be supportive. There are multiple ways to do that, including discussing the topic of “forbidden” relationships in general, and letting them know you think it’s OK for siblings to date. Give them a safe setting in which to come out to you. If they don’t take the bait, don’t push it.

Check this out for more.

Yes, We Support Consanguinamory

As this blog supports the rights of ALL who can consent to share love, sex, kink, residence, partnership, and marriage as they mutually agree, that necessarily includes consanguineous relationships, also known as consanguinamory, intrafamilial sexuality and romance, or consensual incest. This includes supporting people experiencing Genetic Sexual Attraction whether they are sexually affectionate or not. 

The "i" word often gets very strong reactions, but it is wrong to conflate abuse, assault, or molestation with romance, affection, or recreational sex between consenting people. That's one reason we prefer to use the term consanguinamorous or consanguinamory.

These relationships exist between close relatives who first meet well into adulthood as well as those who were raised with each other. They include "family with benefits" relationships and fully rounded romances. They can be youthful experimentation, golden years fun, short flings, lifelong spousal relationships, or everything between. They can be closed, monogamous pairings, open relationships, polyamorous, or otherwise nonmonogamous.

They also happen all over the planet and always have, regardless of race, class, educational status, or rural or urban settings. They are common enough that you know people who are having, or have had, such experiences, maybe even people you admire very much.

We fully support such affection.

We don't apologize for that.

We hope you do or will do the same.

We are here to help people who are in, have been in, or want to be in such relationships. We support their rights and aim to assist them in their relationships.

Yes, some people are disgusted by the very thought. That's fine. They don't have to be involved in these relationships. But they shouldn't be able to interfere in the relationships of others.

If you, or someone you know, has had such experiences, or you have questions or comments, you're always welcome to contact Keith via email at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com and via Wire messenger at fullmarriageequality. You can also comment below (including anonymously). There is also a place to get in contact with others.

Here are other entries that might be of some help.

Interviews With the Consanguinamorous

Why Is Consanguinamory Illegal In Many Places?

Why Do I Feel This Way?

When Someone You Love Wants to Love You More

Should You Do It?

Sometimes The Ice Just Needs Breaking

For Parents Considering Consanguinamory

You Did the Taboo - Now What?

Consaguinamory and Reproduction

Coping With Being Outed as Consanguinamorous

Coming Out Consanguinamorous

How To Be An Ally to Consanguinamorous People You Know

Myth: People in GSA Relationships Don’t Need the Freedom to Marry

Reality: Some people in Genetic Sexual Attraction relationships need and want the freedom to marry, and there is no good reason for them to be denied their right to marry if they’re consenting adults.

Because people experiencing GSA are close genetic relatives, some people argue that they don’t need their right to marry because they’re already family. However, they might not be considered family under the law, although in a loathsome double-standard, they may still be subject to discriminatory laws based on their genetic relation.

Those who are already sharing their lives as spouses, or want to, often do need the same rights, benefits, and protections as any other spouses. Also, marriage automatically provides for next-of-kin status, which is especially important when there is some discord between the lovers and others who are legally recognized as family. For example, if brothers Adam and Steve have been living as spouses for years and Steve winds up in a coma in the hospital, Steve’s estranged, bigoted, adoptive parents would likely be able to usurp Adam’s rights to make decisions.

An adult should be free to marry any and all consenting adults.

See Myth: Acting on GSA Needs to be Criminalized, Prosecuted, and Stopped

See Myth: I Don’t Know Anyone Who Has Experienced GSA

First and Only

We have another exclusive interview to bring you.

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. Most can’t even be out of the closet or they’ll face persecution and prosecution under absurd incest laws, which, instead of focusing on abuse, also target consensual relationships.

The man and woman interviewed below should be free to legally and publicly marry, or simply be with each other without having to hide, yet they can’t. Prejudice can be deadly. They are consenting adults; why should they be denied their rights? In much of the world, including where they live, they could be criminally prosecuted for loving each other this way, and might be persecuted severely in addition.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what they have to say about the love they share. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic, but whatever your reaction, should lovers like these be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

Also please note that someone you love, respect, and admire could be in a similar relationship right now. Should they be attacked and denied rights because of the "incest" label?

NOTE: This interview includes brief descriptions of lovemaking between teens, who, where they lived, could legally consent to sex with strangers at their ages.

*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourselves.

David: Hello everyone. I’m David, 30, male, and currently residing in Salt Lake City, Utah with my sister/wife and our daughter. I’m a six-foot one-inch white male with a lean, muscular body. I graduated in finance and am currently working as a Financial Advisor for a bank.

We both come from a strong socioeconomic background as our dad inherited a lot of land and owned multiple businesses throughout his life, but we are proud to say everything we own is from our own hard work. Having said that, our parents are also really conservative Mormons. We come from a family where dating and sex before marriage are still a taboo so you can say we absolutely obliterated their values [laughs]. 

We both are big on fitness and go to the gym religiously. Some of my hobbies include gaming, kayaking during summer, and skiing during winter. I love remodeling around the house and always finding projects to work on. A few things I have done over the past three or four years, since we bought our house, was to put a wooden fence around the house myself, remodeled the living room by adding custom shelves, ceiling lights, paint and much more. 

We do not have any other siblings.

Sarah: Hello everyone, I’m Sarah, 32, female, and I’m the sister/wife to David and mom to our beautiful daughter. I have long and silky blonde hair going down to my lower back, and all natural. I’m a slim, curvy girl with a big bust - got it from my mom. I graduated dental school and did my specializations in orthodontics, however, currently I’m a stay-at-home mom looking after our daughter. I do plan to start working again in a few months, but no rush to be honest.

Like David mentioned, we are gym freaks and love working out. I don’t have a lot of hobbies like David, but I do enjoy playing Call of Duty, Battlefield, Halo and FC26. 

Coming Out Day 2026

Life can be tough for someone whose identity and orientation doesn’t fit in to a narrow little heterosexual, monogamous, "traditional"-gender-role box or whose relationship doesn’t meet the local sex police’s approved standards. Sometimes, a person or the people in a relationship want to come out of the closet. Sometimes they need to come out. For some of these people, it is a little less difficult if they do so as part of a communal event, such as National Coming Out Day.

National Coming Out Day is TODAY, October 11. Here’s the official website, at least for the US. There is much helpful information there, regardless of where you live.

The more people that come out, the more the others around them will realize they do know and appreciate people who are LGBTQ+, or polyamorous or otherwise nonmonogamous, or consanguinamorous, and that such people and relationships deserve equality. So coming out helps progress.

On the other hand, it is understandable that any given person, couple, triad, or quad decides to stay in the closet for now. There’s still so much hate, so much prejudice and persecution, and even unjust laws that hinder the life and love of people who are good citizens and just want to be themselves. I support the decision of anyone who believes they need to be reserved for now for the sake of their safety and family.

The decision to come out is yours. Do you want to come out, and to whom? Your friends? Your family? Your coworkers? Your classmates? Your neighbors? Your crush? The whole world?

Also, if someone comes out to you, the decision to be an ally is yours. If your classmate, coworker, neighbor, friend, parent, child, or sibling comes to you and says they are gay, lesbian, bisexual, polysexual, pansexual, transgender, non-binary, genderfluid, polyamorous, nonmonogamous, consanguinamorous or in a consanguinamorous relationship, what will you do? Will you choose love and acceptance?

Even if you are heterosexual, monogamous, and nonconsanguinamorous, you may want to come out as an ally for full marriage equality. That alone can take courage, but it helps.

If you are planning to come out, or you do come out, please feel free to share your experience here by commenting. You can do so anonymously. You are also welcome to contact Keith if you want someone to talk with. The best ways to do that are to email fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com or message fullmarriageequality on the Wire messaging app.

Respect For Marriage Act

Like many countries, the US needs a national "Respect For Marriage Act."

Our laws should ensure that an adult is free to marry any and all consenting adults, and have their marriages respected under the law, in courts, by schools, in hospitals, by insurance agencies, and so forth. This should be the case in every state, county, and city.

Ideally, we would adopt a Marriage Equality Amendment that supports diversity, equity, and inclusion.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, who is capable of consent, regardless of their age, race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or any other personal characteristic, their rights to consent to relationships, love, sex, kink, residence, or marriage with any and all consenting adults.

Denying the polyamorous right to marry shouldn’t be part of any law. Equality “just for some” isn’t equality.

Let's support full marriage equality.

For Consanguinamorists Considering Parenting

I was asked anonymously on Tumblr about the health of children from consanguineous parents, why there is a taboo about this, and what advice I have for a mother and son having a baby.  My answers mostly apply to any consanguinamorous parents.

Twins and Double Cousins

Throughout history, it has been more common than present-day people in densely populated areas would think for, say, a man to marry a woman and then for that man's brother to marry that woman's sister. If the larger families get along, it can make a lot of sense. It gets more attention these days when the siblings are two sets of identical twins.

Becky Pemberton reported at the-sun.com on such a situation, which is more newsworthy because both couples had children within months of each other. [This post has been bumped up so external links may no longer work.]

Brittany and Briana are identical twins who married identical twins Josh and Jeremy Salyers and then gave birth to babies within months of one another. 

 

They uploaded an Instagram post of their adorable sons Jett and Jax and said they are “Cousins, genetic brothers, and quaternary twins.”

When children are born to both of those married couples, those children are first cousins twice over to each other, or "double cousins." They are first cousins through their mothers, AND first cousins through their fathers. This is true whether or not the sisters are twins and whether or not the brothers are twins. Genetically, the double first cousins are like siblings to each other. Once they are grown, legally, those first cousins can marry in about half of US states and have sex in all but a handful of US states, whereas siblings can't legally marry in any of state and can legally have sex in only three. It's another example of how ridiculous the laws are, and another example of how genetic concerns are not the reason for unconstitutional bans on the consanguineous freedoms to sexuality and marriage.

Brittany and Briana met Josh and Jeremy at a festival for twins in 2017 and the Salyers blokes proposed six months later, following a whirlwind romance. 

 

They had a joint wedding on August 5, 2018, live in the same home in Virginia, US, and are now expanding their families together.

Twins, especially identical twins, can be very close, and as the article stated, these twins have done so much of life together, and they are living together. While the article does not say one way or the other, it isn't out of the range of possibility that this situation involves polyamory and consanguinamory. Either way, we wish them well.

Have you known of similar situations? Maybe you know of someone who ended up having marriages to more than one person from the same family? As always, feel free to comment below.

How Consanguineous Lovers Can Avoid Trouble

Believe it or not, there are still criminal laws in many places criminalizing consensual sex between adults, and there are still police officers who will investigate people for this "crime," still prosecutors who will take the case before a court, and still judges and jurors who will convict people and sentence them to prison. There are still social workers who will take children away from good parents because those parents love other adults.

It doesn't matter to them how loving the relationships are. It doesn't matter if they love each other more than they could love others, it doesn't matter if the lovers didn't even meet each other until they were adults. It apparently doesn't matter to the people interfering that every dollar or minute they spend trying to stop consenting adults from loving each other is a dollar or minute that could instead go into protecting people, especially children, against predators.

In addition to this persecution of consanguinamorous people, there aren't any protections against other forms of discrimination against the consanguinamorous, such as employment discrimination. There are still many states that don't have protections for LGBTQ+ people, either, and polyamorous people are even less protected than monogamous LGBTQ+ people.

I sometimes forget that people don’t follow the news and law as closely as I do for this blog, so they may be unaware of these things. So I want to share with you what I've learned.

First, note the disclaimer that there is an ever-present at the bottom of this blog. I'll mostly repeat it here:

Sorting Out Relation

Sometimes people, especially young people, aren't certain of how to describe their relation to someone else. It doesn't help that legal relation isn't always the same as genetic (blood) relation.  People can legally be siblings, but not be close genetic relatives, for example. Or two people can be genetic siblings but not legal relatives. Relation by blood/genetics is referred to as consanguinity and relation by marriage or law may be referred to as affinity.

Generally, the law recognizes that people are related through birth*, adoption, or marriage (or civil union or domestic partnership.)

I hope this provides clarity to people who are uncertain.

Living Consanguinamorously - What To Tell The Children

A question many people in consanguinamorous relationships have is if, what, when, and how to tell their children about their relationship.

There is no one right answer because it depends on many different factors.

It will be great when we get to a point where it doesn’t even have to be a question, but since most consanguineous lovers are still living in places where such relationships face severe discrimination, often including imprisonment, it is a question some people have.

Most people in consanguinamorous relationships have children, whether they have those children together or by some other relationship or through adoption or third party reproduction, because most people in general have children, so this is an issue faced by many people.

Let’s consider some of the factors involved.

Don't Like It? You Don't Have to Do It

I get all sorts of comments submitted to this blog, and send to me through other means. Some express prejudice and bigotry. From one of those...

I definitely believe it is disgusting and wrong for a father and daughter to have a sexual relationship. I thought it was illegal in most states no matter if it is consensual or not. I can’t imagine doing that.

Let's consider this statement closely.

I definitely believe it is disgusting and wrong for a father and daughter to have a sexual relationship.

What disgusts you can influence what you do. It should have no control over what anyone else does.

What would make it wrong for two (or more) individuals, who aren't cheating, who are capable of consenting, to consent to sex? Is sex itself wrong? Or do you believe that it is only right to have sex under certain conditions in addition to consent and being free to take on a new partner? What would those conditions be? Regardless, your claim that it is wrong shouldn't have power over the rights of anyone else.

I thought it was illegal in most states no matter if it is consensual or not.

Unconstitutional laws do still remain on the books that criminalize this in 48 states. That means in two states, there is no such law. What is your objection in those two states? Or the many countries with no ridiculous laws to that effect?

I can’t imagine doing that.

Then don't. Nobody is saying you have to.

I can't imagine running a marathon. Does that mean nobody else should be free to do so?

The fact is, human sexuality and relationships are diverse. Not everyone is going to want the same things. And that's OK! There is no good reason to try to deny people the relationships to which they've mutually agreed.

There are women who have been consanguinamorous with their genetic fathers. Some have been together until their father's death, in a loving relationship with no regrets (other than not starting sooner). Why should they be denied their rights just because someone else doesn't like their love? There's no good reason.

We need to support relationship rights for all, and full marriage equality.

Mothers, Sons, and the Law

I'm continuing a series here of answers I posted to Quora that got attacked by censors. [This entry has been bumped up.]

*****

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-illegal-for-a-mother-to-have-sex-with-her-own-son/answer/Keith-Pullman

Is it illegal for a mother to have sex with her own son?

Keith Pullman

I network with, interview, & befriend adults with consensual incest experience.2y

It’s still illegal for a woman who have sex with her adult son in 48 states in the US and many countries.

It isn’t illegal in the US states of Rhode Island & New Jersey, as well as various modern countries, including France and Spain.

Regardless of criminalization, there are mothers and sons having sex in just about every neighborhood on the planet, regardless of class or ethnicity. And there always have been. Sometimes the sex is a very casual “family-with-benefits” agreement, sometimes it is part of a spousal relationship lasting decades, and sometimes it is somewhere along the wide spectrum between.

Very few are ever caught & prosecuted where it is still illegal, but such lovers need to be careful in order to protect themselves and each other.

*****

NOTE: These specific answers in this series were "deleted" at Quora after being there for a while and being well-received. They were probably hidden from view because some bigot targeted me, as evidenced by the fact that many were deleted in rapid fire.

I have previously appealed such deletions successfully. However, whether or not my deleted answers are restored, I’ll be adding them to this blog. You’ll see for yourself there’s no reason to delete these answers.

Consanguinamorous Dating

We've talked much about how to live in a consanguinamorous relationship, but only a little about how to initiate one.

What about dating?

As with other relationships, your curiosity or sexual attraction might not be enough, and dating helps figure out if there could be mutual interest and attraction, and compatibility; it helps you get to know each other better, see if you can have fun together, see if you're a match, and bond more.

For some of you, there is a big difference between dating a relative or family member and someone else, because the other person might not know that you intend this to be dating in the romantic or sexual sense. It's a problem many LGBTQ+ people have faced before, and some continue to face, depending on where they live. On the plus side, you usually know a lot about this person already. In that way, it can be like starting to date a close friend: Can you be "more than" friends? In this case, it is can you be "more than" siblings or whatever your relation is? Dating can help figure that out. Even if people already know they are mutually attracted and interested, dating can be a way to see if they are actually compatible.

Revisiting Your Youth

Siblings, stepsiblings, cousins, and other close relatives have been exploring, experimenting with, and playing with each other for all of history. This includes, when they are close in age, during adolescence and childhood.

Playing “house,” playing “doctor,” “show me yours, I’ll show you mine,” and various acts of curiosity are very common. As long as aggression or fear isn’t used to create the experience, it’s generally not considered abuse or otherwise problematic for, as an example, siblings who are 10 and 13 to have explored a bit; even less so if the siblings who are, say, 14 and 17 get sexual, or have (deliberately) watched each other or, together, someone else in the residence or connected with the family getting sexual.

Again, this isn’t referring to something forceful, coerced, or  done under duress or threats. Abuse is an entirely different matter beyond the scope of this topic.

Over the years, I’ve been contacted by people who had such experiences, wondering if it was OK that they happened, some feeling “guilty,” or asking if it is unusual that they don’t regret it, maybe if and how to bring the subject up with the other person(s) who were involved.

These experiences are normal, natural, and not rare. There’s nothing wrong with or harmful about youthful curiosity and exploration.

If you weren’t the eldest participant, the person who was the eldest or elder would almost certainly benefit from hearing from you that you don’t regret it and you think of it as a positive or neutral experience, as opposed to an abusive or otherwise negative one. (If that is, indeed, how you feel about it.)

But how and when should you talk with them? What should you say?

It’s best to talk with them one-on-one, privately, in-person.

If you won’t be seeing them in-person anytime soon and you absolutely can’t wait, still ensure that the conversation is private, just between the two of you. A live video call is best, a live audio call is second best, followed by texting in a secure messaging app, especially with expiring (disappearing) messages, and it will be essential that you keep your wording somewhat vague - vague enough that if other people hear it or read it they wouldn’t be able to prove conclusively what happened.

You’re probably going to be nervous, and that’s OK. You’ll just have to have the courage to go ahead and be awkward about it.

Say something along the lines of, “I’ve been thinking some good thoughts about some good memories. I want you to know that I think back on the times we shared privately when we were kids as good times. I thought it might be important for you to know that.” Or, use words that will be positive and effective between the two of you. I deliberately chose to use the word “good” right away and repeat it so as to put the other person at ease. Add a “thank you” if appropriate. Starting off with “We need to talk,” or something like that can cause someone undue worry and defensiveness.

Their reaction might range from denial and refusing to talk about it, to slight embarrassment, to being relieved, to wanting to “pick up where you left off.” Telling them is highly unlikely to have a down side. If they’re in denial, “don’t remember,” or don’t want to talk about it at that moment, don’t push it. Allow them their time.

If, conversely, you were the eldest/elder, it can be risky to reopen that matter first, meaning the younger person hasn’t mentioned what happened since it last happened or soon after. Even if you were absolutely certain (and correct) that this was a mutually positive experience, societal prejudices, shame, and fear might have influenced how someone else remembers what happened. If you do raise the subject, the spectrum of potential reactions is much wider, especially if you don’t currently have a close and positive relationship with this person now. As such, if you bring it up, it should start with asking them how they’re doing and how they feel about your shared youth.

If things go well and you do want to “pick up where you left off,” this might help. It’s is possible for all involved to have no regrets AND not agree to do anything together now, so never assume that just because you had some moment in your youth that anything will happen now.

As always, your comments that follow the rules are welcome and you can write to Keith privately via email at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com or on the Wire messaging app at fullmarriageequality.

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Consanguineous) Love #19

“There are so many people outside of your family. Go marry/have sex with one of them, instead. It creates friendships between families.” There are plenty of people within one’s own race, too, but that is no reason to ban interracial marriage. I have many friends outside of my family to whom I’m neither married nor married to a relative of theirs. On the other hand, don't we all know unrelated married couples who actually drive their relatives apart from each other? Let adults marry the consenting adult(s) of her or his choice.

Telling someone who is happy with their lover that they should dump that person (or even be prosecuted for being with that person) and should be denied their right to marry because there is someone else they can be with instead is an arrogant and usually, very much a cruel intrusion into someone else's life. How would the person who says this like it if someone told them they had to drop their lover (if they have one) and go find someone else, even though they are consenting adults who want to be together and are happy together?

There are people in consanguinamorous relationships who could never find as much love and happiness with someone else, and trying to force them to do so isn't fair to anyone, including the person for whom they "settle." There are people who are consanguinamorous in their orientation.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Consanguineous) Love #18

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Consanguineous) Love #20

Laws Vary Regarding Relationships Between Consenting Adults

We've heard so many different misunderstandings about laws as they apply to relationships and sex between consenting adults. Here in the US, it is especially understandable because laws vary from state to state. There are, of course, fifty states, but there are also other jurisdictions such as the District of Columbia, territories, such as Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands, and there are also federal laws, military codes, and laws that apply to "Indian reservations" (small areas where indigenous peoples have some level of self-determination).

If you are concerned about the laws where you are or where you're considering moving, it would be a good idea to see if the laws of that location are searchable online and to consult an attorney who specializes in family or criminal law for that jurisdiction. An experienced lawyer can tell you about how often a law is enforced even if it is still in effect, and might be able to point out ways someone could make it less likely they'd ever be prosecuted.

Some states have laws still on the books that have been ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. The only reason to still have those laws is a deranged hope that the Court decision will eventually be reversed.

Unmarried sex or cohabitation, interracial relationships, same-sex relationships, certain sex positions, even using contraception or sex toys have all been illegal in some places in the US. It might seem shocking, but it is true.

As the show "Sister Wives" detailed, Utah had been the last state to enforce a law against polyfidelity, or at least saying more than one person is your spouse. We're not even talking about insurance coverage or anything like that. Simply saying that you have more than one spouse has been illegal. It's outrageous, but true.

When it comes to consanguinamory, confusion ranges from "I thought it was illegal everywhere for cousins to have sex" to "There are no laws against consenting adults having sex, no matter how closely related." Both statements are false.

The fact is, first cousins are incarcerated for having sex in a handful of US states. But about half of US states will allow first cousins to legally marry (and the list of states isn't what stereotypes would have you believe), although some of them have some restrictions. That leaves many states where where they can have sex, live together, raise children together, but can't legally marry. Outrageous, but true.

As far as relatives closer than that, in general, 47 states have laws against relatives closer than first cousins having sex. Ohio allows siblings to be together. Rhode Island and New Jersey have no laws against adults being together, no matter how closely related. Some other states apparently haven't criminalized sex between adults and their uncles or aunts (outside of old, overturned laws that criminalized unmarried sex, given that these people weren't allowed to marry.)

None of the states will knowingly allow relatives closer than first cousins to legally marry, with certain exceptions in certain states for uncles and nieces, for example, mostly a nod to traditions from foreign cultures. Traditions are not respected, however, when it comes to having more than one legal spouse.

Note that these criminalization laws and laws denying marriage rights tend to apply to genetic ("blood") relatives even if they were legally adopted to different families and never met until well into adulthood.

Some states may have relied on criminalization of homosexuality (which was overturned) and thus might not have anti-incest laws that technically criminalize same-sex consanguinmory. Laws can get very specific, outlawing certain sex acts but not others between certain people. Yes, as silly as it sounds, some specific sex acts that don't harm anyone have been illegal in some places.

The patchwork of unjust laws needs to be changed. There shouldn't be anywhere in the US (or any other country for that matter) where consenting adults are denied their basic rights to have a mutual relationship that includes whatever form of sex they want to have, living together, and, if they want, marriage, or any other union or partnership offered under law. Nobody should fall in love and then worry that if they move for a job they won't be able to marry in their new state or might even be criminals.

There's no good reason to deny these rights. In the US, it should be obvious that legal precedents have determined that such discrimination is unjust and unconstitutional. But people are understandably confused as many unjust laws are still enforced.

If She Wasn't Serious, She Wouldn't Have Revealed Her Feelings

There are better places than Reddit to have a serious discussion about consanguinamory, but I thought this recent post by someone with the screen name DaughterNeeds was an interesting one. [Please note this blog entry has been bumped up from a previous posting.] This person claims to be an involved/experienced daughter, and titled the post "Respect your daughter choice and say yes"...

Actually, the only time I felt unwanted or unloved or hurt or betrayed was when my father originally told me no. He was worried that he had somehow done something wrong or that somehow I was confused.

To the fathers who are out there let me assure you of something: If your daughter comes to you can rest assured that she is sure and yes she means it! We are socially programmed from birth to believe such feelings or thoughts are immoral and unethical. If your daughter comes to you longing for you, she has had more than enough time to think, rethink, and think some more. She has likely struggled to come to terms with how she feels and she has likely contemplated a million reasons on why she should squash her feelings and most certainly has she has tried. Unknowing to you she has most certainly tried her whole life to force herself to feel for someone else as strongly and as instinctively she feels for you.

She makes a good point. Unless the situation is a recent reunion/introduction, or she's literally insane to the point she has no idea what she's doing, a daughter making a clear pass at her father (or mother) must have thought about it a lot already. It might seem sudden to the parent, but it isn't to the daughter who is opening her heart and being extremely vulnerable.