War and Peace

BBC has adapted War and Peace, and one of the things getting notice is an "incest" element. There was an article here at independent.ie way back in late November by Aoife Kelly.

The small screen adaptation of Leo Tolstoy's epic story of love and betrayal set in Russia boasts a cast of names including Jim Broadbent, Gillian Anderson, Paul Dano, Brian Cox and Lily James of Downton Abbey fame.

The series also features nude scenes and incest storyline featuring a brother and sister. 

Why not? It happens in life and always has, and it has been an element in our stories as long as storytelling has been around.

Andrew Davies, who previously adapted Pride and Prejudice, wrote the series and, speaking to The Telegraph, he defended his work on War and Peace.

“Tolstoy hints very clearly that the characters of Helene and Anatole Kuragin have been having an incestuous relationship," he said.

“The convention of the day means that Tolstoy would never have actually written the scene.”

He also added that yes, there is nudity in it and said, "When you expect someone to be nude, they are."

Recently, theguardian.com had Davies defending his decision...

Andrew Davies has said the incestuous liaison between Hélène and Anatole Kuragin is “crucial” to his adaptation of War and Peace.

Dickens star Tuppence Middleton and Glue’s Callum Turner play the siblings who are seen in bed together in the new version of Leo Tolstoy’s famous novel.

Talking to the Radio Times about his writing process, the 79-year-old said: “I often say I just ‘copy out the best bits’.” However, Davies acknowledged it is not always apparent what the “best bits” may be.

“For instance, in War and Peace, brother and sister Hélène and Anatole are in an incestuous relationship, but Tolstoy indicates this so subtly that most readers, including me, at first reading, miss it altogether.

“This relationship, and their attitude to it, is so crucial to our understanding of them that for me, at least, it needs to be on screen.”

From tv.bt.com...

Dickensian star Tuppence Middleton and Glue’s Callum Turner play the siblings who are seen in bed together in the new version of Leo Tolstoy’s famous novel.

"As you can see in episode one, the brother and sister relationship was something I made more of," said Davies.

Check your local listings as it is supposed to start showing soon. If you watch, tell us what you think. Have you read the novel? What do you think?

We Get Letters About Lasting Consanguinamory and Past Relationships

Someone left an inspiring comment on this blog entry today. Anonymous wrote...

My sister and I are and have been in a consensual, incestuous relationship for over 40 years and we have been living as husband and wife for 32 years. We have 3 children, 2 daughters and a son. We are full blooded brother and sister, not half or step. Our kids turned out just fine, no handicaps, no diseases or anything like that at all. Our neighbors, people we work with, the kids teachers and the kids friends and there parents no nothing about relationship. To them we are just the regular neighbor/parents next door raising a family. 

Congratulations on your love, Anonymous!

We sure hope this person contacts us. We want to get in touch! Isn't is ridiculous that they can't legally marry yet???




Like any other relationships, although I've known GSA romances that have lasted until death, some end, or go through separations. A couple of comments were left today responding to myths about GSA, by someone who used to be in a GSA-initiated romance.

The first comment was left after this entry...

Philled Up

The Dr. Phil Show is one of those shows for which there is little benefit for someone looking to present the reality of polyamourous or polygamous or consanguinamorous relationships to participate. This show is not unique in these respects, but it is our example for today.

It's Dr. Phil's show (hence the name), and Dr. Phil, unless I've missing something (which is possible, because I rarely watch or read anything by him) professes monogamy as the ideal for all and probably is also biased again consanguinamory. The show runs on commercial television, which means it is advertiser-supported. The target audience has fears and biases against ethical nonmonogamy. Dr. Phil's staff controls the microphones, the editing, and everything else. It is highly unlikely someone in an ethically non-monogamous or consanguinamorous relationship is going to be allowed to portray their relationship as anything other than some sort of terrible mess or abusive. They're going to be expected to be lectured by Dr. Phil.

Whatever one thinks of Thom Miller of Mansfield, Ohio, a self-proclaimed polygamist who has been in the news lately, there was no way any polygamist was going to be portrayed well on this show. Dillon Carr reported at richlandsource.com...

Have a Look Around

Are you new to this blog? Maybe you've been here before, but have missed some of the features here.

Over there in the column on the right you can find ways to connect and to follow this blog.

There at the top of the page are tabs with drop-downs of some important pages, entries, and links.

There's a Welcome message and there's an About This Blog page, and you can read about the triad that originally inspired this blog.

There's a Glossary so that you can become familiar with terms frequently used here.

I explain why we need solidarity in supporting full marriage equality and I debunk all the arguments that you'll ever hear made against equality.

On the Case Studies page I feature interviews with people who have been denied their rights, so you can "meet" people who are, or have been, in consensual loving relationships who have are harmed by the lack of equality under the law.

Are you here because of polyamory or polygamy? Perhaps you're here because this blog covers Genetic Sexual Attraction or consanguinamory (consensual incest)? Do you need help?


Whether you're a family member or friend who is looking for more information, or a journalist, or are someone who is looking to help the cause, I hope you are helped by what is here.

This blog is a labor of love. There's no advertising and we don't accept monetary contributions. Want to help? Spread the word. Also, this blog DOES accept content submissions (fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com), but makes no offer, implicit nor explicit, of compensation nor guarantees that it will be used.

A very kind person improved this blog's template. I hope you are liking the look. I still need to take care of a couple of things.

Tell me what you think!

Da Bears

Yet again, we see why Discredited Argument #5 is, well, discredited, when it comes to consanguinamory. From newscientist.com comes this report on polar bears...

Image information: Michio Hoshino/Minden Pictures/FLPA

A pedigree of 4449 polar bears in Canada uncovers the family secrets of six generations, including the first reported case of identical polar bear twins, six adoptions and one case of sibling incest.

Interesting.

Based on 45 years of field observations and genetic data, the family tree traces out the complicated histories of the Western Hudson Bay group of polar bears since 1966.

“To me, the presence of identical twins was the most surprising part,” says René Malenfant at the University of Alberta, Canada.

Not the incest.

The team also looked at how much inbreeding occurs amongst relatives. Across the entire family tree, they only identified one clear case of incest, between a pair of half-siblings. These had been born to the same mother in different years, but probably had different fathers.

“The rate of inbreeding is quite low, however it seems this is more likely because of lack of opportunity as opposed to active avoidance,” says Malenfant. Since polar bears disperse over large ranges, related bears are unlikely to encounter each other.

For more information...

Journal reference: bioArxiv, DOI: 10.1101/034009

Read more: “Polar bear penis bone may be weakened by pollution”

Da bears!

Equality Still Being Denied in US

There is a ways to go for full marriage equality in the US. It's going to happen, and we're helping to make it happen sooner rather than later. There is no good reason to deny people their rights. Equality applies to all or it isn't equality.

Kendra Hall/Arizona Sonora News reports an example of a same-gender couple still fighting for their rights.

Alray Nelson and his partner, Brennen Yonnie. Photo by Alray Nelson.

For Navajo tribal members, same-sex marriage is not legal although it is now legal in the United States.

“Once again, we were forgotten on a national level and the fight for marriage equality is not over,” said Alray Nelson, Navajo member and lead organizer for the Coalition for Navajo Equality. “It’s not ended. We’re still here fighting.”

Good for them!

In 2005, the Navajo Nation Council passed a law called the Diné Marriage Act. This law was enacted to specify marriage laws for Navajo members.

In section three, it states, “Marriage between persons of the same sex is void and prohibited.”

Legally a gay, Navajo couple could obtain a marriage license in the state of Arizona, but this couple would not be able to receive Navajo employee benefits, receive home site-leases and according to the Coalition for Navajo Equality a same-sex couple may not be allowed adopt a Native American child.

That's terrible.

The Cherokee tribe also banned same-sex marriage, defining marriage specifically between a man and a woman. According to Nelson, only 12 out of 566 tribes provide protections for same-sex marriage couples.

This needs to change, and it will. It's awful that people who've been subjected to so much bigotry would keep perpetuating bigotry.

Meanwhile, in Montana, a judge apparently didn't get the memo the Supreme Court sent. Here's a report at khq.com about the polygamous freedom to marry still being denied.

A federal magistrate judge has ruled against a polygamous trio in Billings seeking to strike down Montana's bigamy laws.
U.S. Magistrate Judge Carolyn Ostby ruled Monday that Nathan, Victoria and Christine Collier must show that the laws have harmed them, or that they have been threatened with prosecution, before they can file a lawsuit.

Ostby's ruling is not the final say. Her findings and recommendations can be upheld or rejected by U.S. District Judge Susan Watters.

So the door is still open there.

Austrian Consanguinamorous Couple Talks With Media

It can be very, very difficult for journalists to get consanguineous lovers to share about their relationship and life together. Due to continuing bigotry, often expressed in senseless criminalization, people enjoying a consanguinamorous relationship often shy away from media out of self-preservation.

Jennifer Tillmann at vice.com managed to get a couple to talk with her, as long as their identities were protected. One of them describes the hate hurled their way...

Tom's profile picture shows him and his girlfriend, Lena. She hugs him from behind, lovingly kissing him on the neck. He is smiling, twining his fingers in her long, brown hair. Strictly speaking, nothing is wrong with this photo. It shows two people who love each other—a relationship based on mutual attraction. 

But Lena is Tom's sister, and for most people this changes everything; the photograph actually becomes criminal evidence. "I'm scared of people finding me disgusting," says Tom. He looks away from me and claws at his fingers. He's been in a committed relationship with his sister for 20 years, and the couple has a child together. "There's nothing that I haven't heard before. People have called me a desecrator, sister-f---er, or simply retarded. And all that's come out of the mouths of people who were at one time my friends. Even if society won't recognize us, we exist and there are more of us than you think."

There sure are.

Again With the Folgers Advertisement

UPDATE FOR 2015: Here's a comedy video that extends the ad. Friends of Lily are laughing.]

*****
Now is as good of a time as any other to go through this year's criticism of a Folgers Coffee Christmas-themed television advertisement. I've blogged about this ad and reaction to it before, here and here. [This is bumped up from 2012 because the ad is getting talked about again.]

In a nutshell, the ad depicts a brother arriving home after being being away out of the country, and his sister is happy to see him. Some viewers see undertones of incest, because, you know, siblings are supposed to hate each other and fight like cats and dogs all of the time. Since they see undertones of incest, many of them take the opportunity to remind us that they think consensual incest (consanguinamory) between siblings is icky.

There's some language the FCC wouldn't allow on American broadcast radio, just to warn you.

Human Rights Day

It's Human Rights Day... at least, it still is where I am.

Surely, the right to love each other, live with each other, and marry each other, if we want, is a basic human right. After all, if we don't have the right to love each other, what rights do we really have?

Wherever we live, whatever our gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, we consenting adults should all be free to enjoy our bodies and each other as we mutually agree, without fear of prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Full marriage equality is a basic human right.

Chick on the Wrong

Somehow I missed this bit from chicksontheright.com [WARNING: Hate at that link.] when I was picking apart the bigot backlash earlier in regards to a couple brought to together through Genetic Sexual Attraction who dared to be profiled in a publication. So, thanks to my friend for bringing this to my attention.

Someone posting under Red Dawn slyly invoked pedophilia at least twice, which I take as a deliberate attempt to bring in an unrelated issue to poison people against consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone.

Chris gave Melissa a bunch of contact information so she could reach out to her other siblings, including her brother, Brian. (This is where this entire story gets really gross.)

We get it. You are grossed out by the idea. Many people who've experienced GSA for themselves through the same way before they experienced it. Funny, but this piece doesn't use the term "Genetic Attraction" or "Genetic Sexual Attraction" anywhere. That's a glaring omission.

Nowhere does the writer explain exactly what's wrong with consenting adults being together. She's simply playing to the prejudices of the readers, and you can see in the comments that the bigots did step right up to do their part. I dealt with the same things in our previous coverage here, so rather than repeat myself again bit by bit, I'll include the comment I left...

I like how you slipped in references to pedophilia to distract from the fact that these people were approaching middle age when they first realized they even had a "lost" genetic sibling. In other words, they were consenting adults. Genetic Sexual Attraction is a real thing and it happens to people who are not married and were never abused as well. I guarantee some of your readers have experienced it, and some have acted it. It happens even to the most conservative people. You may not like it, but your dislike should have no power over the sex lives of consenting adults.

Facebook and Twitter and More

Have you joined the Facebook group yet? Join "I Support Full Marriage Equality."

You should also like this page, Full Marriage Equality, and we meant that.

Are we Facebook friends? I want to be friends with all who support full marriage equality and relationship rights for all adults. Here I am.

Are we connected on Twitter? Here I am.

Are we connected on Tumblr? Here I am.

If you don't want to connect, still feel free to send me a note. I can be reached at fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com

The Pain in Spain Repeated Refrain

There's been much interest around the planet about the couple in Spain who've had their infant (temporarily, hopefully) taken away. We wrote about this previously here.


Here's a few examples of the coverage, and below that, we'll analyze opinion about this.

Will Grice has coverage at independent.co.uk.


Kate Storey has the coverage at cosmopolitan.com.

Here's coverage at motherhoodinstyle.net.

Rebecca Koerber has the coverage at huffingtonpost.com.au.

Sophie Tighe has the coverage at thesun.co.uk.

Now we get into the blatant opinions. Elizabeth Licata had coverage at mommyish.com under the headline "Incestuous Father-Daughter Couple Fights for Return of Their Baby, Which They Probably Should Not Get."

The heart wants what the heart wants, and when it comes to relationships there is a fine gray line between “legal” and “awful,” but this case of a couple from Spain who are fighting the courts for the return of their new baby is nowhere near that line, because the couple are a father and his teenage daughter, and everything about this case is positively stomach-churning in its horribleness.

That's not a reason. It begs the question.

The Pain in Spain

A situation out of Mallorca, Spain is getting international attention as there appears to be an unnecessary removing of a child from her mother.

The most important line in the article by Fiona Govan at thelocal.es is the opening line...

Incest is not against the law in Spain as long as it is carried out between consenting adults, but a father and daughter are appealing after a judge awarded temporary custody of their child to the state pending a full investigation.

Spain is one of the better countries in the world for consanguineous lovers, usually.

The 36-year-old man insists he is in a "unique and loving relationship" with his 18-year-old daughter Sara and that they should be allowed to keep his newborn baby girl - who is also his granddaughter.

The man, who has given his name as Cris, told the local newspaper Cronica Balear that his ex-wife (and mother of Sara) had reported him for abuse because she was jealous of the relationship.

That is not unusual, unfortunately. Friends and family of the consanguinamorous should have compassion instead of being rats.

More Anti-Equality Cowardice and Ignorance

The bigots like to pile on, and someone going by streiff wrote at redstate.com, apparently to demonstrate a basic lack of 1) critical thinking, 2) ability to do the most basic research, and 3) originality. Later, he added a demonstration of a lack of spine. This person was no doubt prompted to add to the hate recently demonstrated by other sites against equality. These haters all copy off each others' papers yet they call everyone else incestuous. And they seem to be coward in that they will not actually debate.

The headline of streiff's piece was "It Isn't Science of Love, You Are Just a Pervert." You know, because this person is a scientist, right? And knows whether or not other people really love each other, right? This hater starts off whining about Justice Anthony Kennedy writing a majority opinion striking down laws against private sex. So right there, you know this person has problems. Then, of course, there is the whining about the decision this past June in favor of the limited monogamous same-gender freedom to marry. That's not enough, so the whining moves on to transphobia. Finally, we get to the quoting from Cosmo (always Cosmo, never the sister publications that carried the same article, some prior to Cosmo). There's a lot of huffing and puffing (and I think a lot of huffing) that mostly boiled down to "I think this is perverted." Wow, what a contribution!

Despite decades of documented evidence, this hater thinks a simple "Nuh-uh!" wipes away the reality of Genetic Sexual Attraction. Then, lamenting that discrimination against consanguinamory is "over" (if only that were true!) this paragon of journalistic excellence writes...

Germany has declared incest to be a basic constitutional right and it is impossible to conceive any state laws against incest standing in the face of even a minor legal challenge.

Germany has done no such thing. A ethics panel has called for it. That's not the same thing. Really, is it that hard to look at Wikipedia?

In trying to correct someone else, this bigot reveals more ineptitude...

In fact, the writer gets a detail wrong. She says that incest is illegal in all states. It isn’t in Chris Christie’s New Jersey, incest is legal.

No mention of Rhode Island nor Ohio. Again, this is easily researched.

This person never even tries to give any reason why the lovers in the article shouldn't be free, but rather counts on readers to simply nod along.

So I took to Twitter to respond to the tweet from streiff RS ‏@streiffredstate about this monstrosity with this...

Please, @streiffredstate - do some research next time instead of copying from someone else's paper http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/2015/11/busted-site-clutches-pearls.html

Surely this person could defend their piece, right?

Well... not really. The homophobic, ableist (and erroneous) response was...

sorry I don't have time for shrill, neurotic gays

And then I was blocked by @streiffredstate

But YOU may not be blocked, yet. So... maybe you can send some tweets to that account?

An Update From Liz

One of my first interviews for this blog was Liz. Her first appearance on the blog can be found here. She checks in from time to time, and this is her latest update...

We're doing ok here. We spent Thanksgiving with our parents. They do enjoy spoiling their granddaughter. She's getting so big too, definitely going to be a tall girl.

You know, I look at her sometimes and think that if we just blindly followed what people said was the right thing for us to do, we wouldn't have her. If I only thought of my brother as my brother and nothing else, I wouldn't have her. I can't imagine life without her or him. People need to understand. I can only hope that someday they do.

Sorry, just needed to get that out. I'm doing fine, I am happy as is my brother. He spends time with her every day, and she loves her daddy.

Wouldn't it be cruel to rip such a family apart? It's also cruel to try to stop it from happening in the first place. There are many people who wish they could find such love or form a family like that. There's no good reason to try to stop them. It is ridiculous that they can't openly discuss the totality of their relationship with neighbors, coworkers, and the like. As always, we with them a long and happy life together!

We Get Letters Wistful About Past Consanguinamory

Unknown left a comment on our most popular entry. His letter is about a situation that is not all that rare...

My parents had four kids. I am the oldest son, and I have two sisters and a much-younger brother. My parents divorced when I was sixteen and my oldest sister was fourteen. My mother struggled with alcoholism after the divorce.

That's unfortunate.

The feelings of loss and abandonment nearly wrecked our family. I hated my father. Our mother was trying to work full-time, go to school at night and still keep the house running. In order to do this, my oldest sister and I took on much of the cooking, cleaning, shopping, getting the younger kids ready for school, etc. In effect, we sort of took on a parental role in the house, including disciplining the younger kids.

Is this the ideal family situation? No. But it is what many people have dealt with due to a parent dying or leaving or being taken away (war, incarceration.)

Busted Site Clutches the Pearls

The anti-equality frigid set over at newsbusters.org and breitbart.com has decided to increase their hits by allowing their followers to "protest too much" in reaction to a story that ran recently at GoodHousekeeping.com and, subsequently, many sister publications. The Newsbusters intern Erin Aitcheson picked on Cosmo, which was probably deliberate, even though a simple search would have revealed the many other publications running the article. Then breitbart.com's Kipp Jones subsequently did the same, ironically practicing journalistic incest. It's crap, hence the dung beetle pic.  Let's look at busters first...

First, the headline was "Cosmo Praises Incest, Infidelity, and Possible Child Rape."

Did the Devil Go Down to Georgia?

Another day, another incomplete report of an "incest" criminal charge. (See another one here.) This one comes from the state of Mississippi. Therese Apel and Sarah Fowler report at clarionledger.com about a Georgia man. Despite two reporters being involved, they still apparently didn't get enough information from law enforcement. Again, his name and picture are prominently featured even though it isn't clear whether he was involved in a very serious crime (assault) or being charged in a victimless "crime."

A Fayetteville, Georgia man has been charged by Mississippi authorities with "adultery and fornication between certain persons forbidden to intermarry."

According to a release from Starkville Police Department, Dan Dewayne Newcomb, 69, was arrested on Tuesday on that charge, which state statute 97-29-5 classifies as "persons being within the degrees within which marriages are prohibited by law to be incestuous and void, or persons who are prohibited from marrying by reason of blood and between whom marriage is declared to be unlawful and void."

Dear Mississippi: People don't need to be married to each other to have sex.

Starkville detective Stephanie Perkins said the incident, which allegedly occurred in 2013 and was just reported, is still under investigation. She said there could be more charges in the future.

If this was an assault, charge him with that. If this was a consensual romp, leave him alone. If this was cheating, that's not a good thing but shouldn't be criminal.

Newcomb is in the Oktibbeha County Jail where he is awaiting an initial court appearance in municipal court.

The charge can carry up to 10 years in prison.

Ten years is not enough if it was assault. He shouldn't even be in jail of this was sex.

Carl Smith had a report at cdispatch.com that shed no more light on what actually happened, other than location and who reported it...

A complaint filed by a person listed as a family member alleges the incident occurred on Aug. 10, 2013, at 982 Highway 12.

That's a hotel.

Lest you think it has to be assault because it must of been the other person who went to police, that isn't necessarily true. There have been many cases of others, including family members, ratting out consenting adults for being lovers.

So, we still have no idea if this was allegedly sex between adults or an assault. I would think the initial charge would be assault if that was the allegation, but we can't be sure.

Is It Really That Hard to Clarify?

We got an update from a case in Iowa we wrote about here, and the defendant's picture and name is prominently featured, but there's still a stunning lack of information. The latest report is from Mike Bunge at kimt.com...

A Clear Lake man has pled not guilty to a charge of incest.

So, there's still no other charge, such as assault or molestation. So right there, this sounds like this was something consensual. If this was an assault, he should be charged under those laws.

45-year-old Todd William Russ entered that plea Tuesday in Cerro Gordo County District Court.  His jury trial has been scheduled for January 12.

If this was consensual I hope there is someone on that jury with some sense.

Russ allegedly performed a sex act with someone he knew to be a blood relative in December, 2014.

"Performed a sex act" implies this was consensual. Molestation or assault is not performing a sex act. It is violating someone. Sex acts are consensual things. "Someone he knew to be a blood relative" is ridiculously vague. Are we talking about a minor or an adult? The lack of clarification, along with the previous language, leads me to believe this was another adult. "Blood relative." In some states, that could mean his first cousin. A "blood relative" can be a parent, an adult child, a niece or nephew, and aunt or uncle, and this person could be a consenting adult, and someone he just met a couple of years ago.

So what's really going on in this case? We don't know. If this was assault, charge him for that and send him away. If this was consenting adults having fun or making love, the charges should be dropped.

Update here.

We Get Letters From People Who Might Want Beards

We get letters from people at all stages of their lives and relationships. Some are freshly into adulthood, some are middle-aged some are older. Sometimes they are thinking back fondly on good times of the distant past, sometimes they are talking about something going on at the present time, and others are considering the future, like these siblings.


A comment was left here by Anonymous...

Keith I really appreciate what you are doing. I wish there were more open minded people like you in the world. Here I just want to share my story. I am from India and I am in relationship with my sister. I am 29 and she is 27. We grew up together. We developed the attraction in last few years and started experimenting. This resulted in a full fledged romantic relationship. I never felt so close to my sister as I feel now now. Sex surely adds new dimension to the relation. Our relationship is a secret and is going to remain so forever. We can't share it with any one else. Here in India we don't have any laws against incest but the society does not accept such relationships. We haven't yet thought of our future but clearly marrying with each other is not the possibility. I wonder if it would be ethical to continue our (sexual) relationship after we both get married (to different people, of course).

I've heard before about consanguinamorous siblings continuing after getting into relationships with others or even getting married to other. If their partners are under the impression that the relationship is monogamous, or even if they accept some interactions with others, the discovery of a consanguineous affair by a scorned lover could result in that lover exposing the affair and bringing serious trouble, even if criminal law is not a factor. The law does not protect consanguineous lovers, who can be discriminated against in employment and many other ways, and targeted by neighborhood bigots.

The question was specifically about ethics.

We Get Letters From Happy LTR Consanguinamorists

We are always happy to comments on this blog, but especially so when we hear from anyone who isn't free to speak up elsewhere. Anonymous left a comment here on our blog's all-time most popular entry and I wanted to highlight it so it won't go overlooked.

My sister (now age 59) and I (61) actually ended up together after she had an unexpected divorce and moved in with me.

Sometimes, people get together temporarily or permanently after a divorce or a death.

We had "experimented" together at a young age and stopped in the late teens.

Some kids do play doctor. Most who do end up never having any involvement with each other as adults. But some never stop "playing" and others do resume later.

When she moved in, I had just planned a vacation driving up the California coast and she came along. 

As we drove, we stopped at beaches along the highway and many were clothing optional and we "did as the Romans". It was at a nude beach just past Santa Cruz where we were watching a sunset when, on the spur of the moment, we kissed. That shock led to a very romantic interlude - that hasn't stopped even after 12 years.

Twelve years. How many marriages don't last long? And yet they can't get legally married. There's no good reason their love should be criminalized or denied equality. Doing the math, they were about 47 and 49 when that special vacation took place. Certainly, they were old enough to decide for themselves.

Something that amazes us both is that the passion between us has not faded as did in our marriages.

Other people in consanguinamorous relationships tend to report similar experiences. Why should they "settle" for someone else? Nobody should try to make them. Friends and family need to be supportive and we need to eliminate discriminatory laws.

I'm hoping Anonymous contacts us so we can find out more.

If you're in a "forbidden" relationship, have been in one, or know someone who has been, please share your experiences in the comments, or better yet, contact us to tell us about it.

Reasons to Legalize Polygamy

The reason to legalize polygamy is that an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, should be free to marry any and all consenting adults. That's about as simple as it gets. There's no good reason to deny adults these rights. But listland.com claims to give the top ten reasons the US should legalize polygamy (in a way that appears to be a bit tongue-in-cheek, but contains much truth.)

It starts off well, with an explanation of polygyny and polyandry both being forms of polygamy. It gets into such reasons as parenting, endorsement by religions, and that it is legal in some countries...

Of the approximately 200 countries in the world about 50 (25%) allow polygamy to be practiced. 

Interesting.

Most Muslim countries (Tunisia and Turkey are notable exceptions with Turkey going so far as to forbid polygamists from immigrating) permit polygamy and countries such as India, Sri Lanka and Malaysia permit polygamous marriages only for their Muslim citizens.  Some countries, such as New Zealand, which otherwise outlaw polygamy, will recognize polygamous marriages if they were legal in the country in which they were contracted.  In other countries, polygamy is positively celebrated such as, for example, in Swaziland where the king has 13 wives.  Several Central Asian republics, notably Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan have debated legalizing polygamy for civil unions.  The debates failed in all national parliaments but it is still seen as an important issue for securing the status of many unofficial second, third and fourth wives.

They go on to cite in-family support networks...

In a monogamous union, when one party is sick, the day to day responsibilities fall on the shoulders of a single person.  This is simply not the case in polygamous marriages where more people are earning and there are more to share the household tasks.

You can read it all here. Every relationship structure can be said to have advantages and challenges. This is why this blog advocates that people be allowed to have the relationships they mutually negotiate, which are more likely to be the ones that enable people to meet each others needs.

It is ridiculous that in just about every state in the US, three or more adults can live together and raise children together, but they can't be legally married to each other even though that it what they all want. It's a major reason to support full marriage equality.

Are You Willing to Help Media?

If so, contact me on Facebook or write me at fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com.

More and more requests are coming in from media (newspaper and magazine journalists, radio and television producers, documentary filmmakers) seeking those involved or experienced in polyamorous relationships and/or consanguineous romantic or sexual relationships, whether initiated through Genetic Sexual Attraction or not. As usual, I’m talking about consensual relationships, not abuse.

The right media projects can greatly advance the rights of people in these relationships by raising awareness and showing people that these relationships are nothing to fear, and are often quite beautiful and healthy relationships.

So, what I'd like is to know who is willing to participate, so I know ahead of time who would help with something like this. Before you say "not me!" please continue reading.

Woefully Incomplete Reporting From Iowa

Is Iowa prosecuting an abuser, or a lover? We can't be sure, because as with so many other cases from other places, we're not being given enough information. A report by Mike Bunge at kimt.com is headlined with "Alleged Incest in North Iowa."

A north Iowa man has been accused of incest.

45-year-old Todd William Russ of Clear Lake is charged with one count of incest, a class “D” felony punishable by up to five years in prison and a fine of no more than $7,500.

Reading 736.5 in Iowa law, this "crime" appears to be about consensual (to be redundant) sex. However, no other defendant is mentioned, leaving us to wonder how someone can commit this "crime" without anyone else? If he molested or assaulted someone, he should be charged with those crimes.

Authorities say sometime in December, 2014, Russ performed a sex act with someone he knew to be a blood relative.

That shouldn't be a crime. If the person didn't consent, well, that's not a "sex act," that's an assault.


There was also a report by Molly Montag at globegazette that contained the same minimal information.


So the guy's name and picture are posted online, and we have no reason (other than the lack of mention of another defendant) that this was anything but consensual (again, to be redundant) sex. Why should anyone be arrested, tried, fined, and jailed for having sex with other adults?

If this was really a matter of assault, then say so! Is that really so hard?

We have no way of knowing if this is a genetic sibling he'd just met months before, or a child he raised. It's ridiculous. Many other law enforcement agencies and news source give more information without identifying victims. It is possible. Try it!

Stupid Laws Continue to Hinder Some LGBT Monogamist Marriages

We've written before about how some LGBT people used adult adoption law to somewhat offset the discrimination preventing them from legally marrying, and the problems now faced by those who now want to marry. It should not matter if one person adopted the other. It should not matter if people are considered family or close relatives by birth, consanguinity, affinity, or adoption. All that should matter in getting married: 1) Are they adults? 2) Do they consent to being married to each other? That's all that should matter.

Here's a current report from Evan Perez and Ariane de Vogue at cnn.com...

Nino Esposito, a retired teacher, adopted his partner Roland "Drew" Bosee, a former freelance and technical writer, in 2012, after more than 40 years of being a couple.

Now, they're trying to undo the adoption to get married and a state trial court judge has rejected their request, saying his ability to annul adoptions is generally limited to instances of fraud.

Well let's solve the problem by making it so they can marry without undoing the adoption, OK?

But Judge Lawrence J. O'Toole, of the Court of Common Pleas of Allegheny County, ruled against the couple. He noted that the primary purpose of the adoption was to reduce the Pennsylvania inheritance tax payable upon the death of one of the men from 15% to 4%, "as the two men would now be in a parent-child relationship instead of a third party relationship."

O'Toole said he was "sensitive to the situation" but noted that despite the fact Esposito and Bosee desire to marry, "they cannot do so because they are legally father and son."

Then overturn the law saying that fathers and sons can't marry. There's no good reason to have such a law.

Andrew Potts at gaystarnews.com deals with this topic, too.

It has been revealed that at least 25 US states, including Pennsylvania, have laws on their books that would see gay people who legally adopted their partners to insure inheritance rights before same-sex marriage was legal treated the same as incestuous relatives if they marry.

Such couples could technically find themselves facing ten years in prison in convicted.

Some state court judges have allowed same-sex couples in this situation to have the adoptions annulled before they then marry.

However other state court judges have refused to revoke adoptions for people in this situation because of legal precedent around adoption where only those entered into for the sake of fraud are eligible for annulment to prevent child abandonment.

It's very, very simple: let adults share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with ANY and ALL consenting adults. This problem and many others would disappear. Let an adult, regardless of that adult's gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, marry any consenting adults.

We Get Letters From Polyamorous Consanguinamorous Women

"Dee Dee" left a comment on this blog's all-time most popular entry, and rather than publish it there, I wanted to highlight it here. It contains polyamory, consanguinamory, exhibitionism/voyeurism, and something else some might call a fetish.

She explained that she was the third child in her family, having three brothers; one older and two younger. She explained that even while growing up, she liked to go au naturel at home, which meant in front of her brothers. Her parents didn't approve, but they worked evenings and so that often gave her the opportunity to go bare.

PLEASE NOTE: The rest of this entry gets slightly explicit.

How to Get Away With Playing the I Card

Shaunna Murphy's write-up at mtv.com on "How to Get Away With Murder" is headlined with the "i" word, because that always gets attention.

When you watch “How to Get Away With Murder” every week, do you spend half of the episode’s runtime leaning over to tell your friend, spouse, sibling, etc. that Wes (Alfie Enoch) it totally guilty, or Asher (Matt McGorry) knows more than he’s saying? Well, as it turns out, you’re in very good company — because even one-half of this season’s possibly incestuous (psh, like we trust that virginity test) sibling duo, Kendrick Sampson, doesn’t know who killed his billionaire parents at this point.

So often in pop media, if siblings (or any other close relatives) have a sexual relationship, they are portrayed as evil or deranged, or we find out that they aren't really related after all. We need more representation for people like this, meaning more literature like this and movies and shows adapting that literature.

ABC/Mitch Haaseth

This includes Sampson’s friends, who have apparently all been saying to him “I know you’re sleeping with your sister” since the premiere of Season 2. (“As long as people don’t think I’m sleeping with my [real] sister, I’m good.”) But all incest jokes and ridiculous plot theories — theories that could very likely become a reality — aside, Sampson is just grateful to be part of a diverse and dynamic cast on a well-written show, during a time when increasing the number of voices we hear onscreen is a major cultural talking point.

There are many great stories that could be developed that treat consanguinamorous people with respect and are compelling stories. The prejudice faced by such lovers is enough material for drama. But that's just one thing.

Do you watch this series? What do you think?

Brazilian Triad Makes News

We're getting more indication that Brazil may lead the way to full marriage equality. We've written about this possibility before. More recent developments are noted by María Martín in this article at elpais.com about a polyamorous triad.

Polygamous marriage has been featured in a Brazilian soap opera / 'Avenida Brasil' / tv globo

A businesswoman, a female dentist and a female administrative manager have managed to turn the idea of a traditional Brazilian family on its head, after recently making their relationship official before a notary in Rio de Janeiro.

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“We are a family and our union is the product of our love for one another,” said the businesswoman in an interview with the O Globo daily.

Good for them! Congratulations!

“I am going to get pregnant and we are preparing for this, including looking at it in financial terms. This legalization [of the union] is a way to prevent the baby, and us, from being left unprotected by the law,” one of the three brides told the press.

So they are thinking ahead. We could use more of that!

Brazil’s top courts have not ruled on the legality of these types of plural unions, so each case is based on decisions made by local authorities.

It would be nice if the matter was clearly established nationwide sooner rather than later.

In Rio, a regular congress has been held throughout the years – entitled Poliencontro – where polygamy and its effects on society are discussed and events organized for the public. A popular telenovela (soap opera) in Brazil has also featured a polygamous wedding between three women.

Since 2000, Freitas has registered scores of gay partnerships, even before they were officially legalized by the Supreme Court. She said that she had waited for years “with anxiety” so that she could finally register a trio in her notary office.

Nobody should have to wait any longer.

According to the last figures compiled in 2013 by the Brazilian Geographic and Statistics Institute (IBEG), new types of families (single mothers, fathers raising their children alone, childless couples and same-sex partnerships) account for 56.1% of Brazilian households.

"New types of families?" I hope that's just bad translation. Families like this have always existed.

So now we'll see if Brazil will beat other countries to full marriage equality. National leaders around the world should step up and remove the foul chains of bigotry as soon as possible. There is no good reason to delay. Meanwhile, we wish these women all happiness in their life together and congratulate them on their polyamorous home.

Sian Ferguson Calls For Polyamory Inclusion

At everydayfeminism.com, Sian Ferguson who is pansexual, writes a very important piece about the ways polyamorous people have been excluded in some queer communities. Ferguson calls for solidarity.

Finding a queer community saved my life. I’m not exaggerating.

Throughout my life, I’ve been told that there is only one right way to experience love, romance and sexual attraction: that is, I was conditioned to believe certain heteronormative myths about relationships.

I don't doubt that there are happy, successful heteronormative monogamous relationships. The problem comes when laws and policies try to force everyone into the same mold. Polyamorous people should not be denied their rights.

Things May Get Better in Ireland But Still Are Bad in UAE

David Quinn writes at ionainstitute.ie that things might continue to get better in Ireland.

Justice Minister, Frances Fitzgerald, has signaled her willingness, in light of the passage of the Bill allowing for same-sex marriage, to alter the “prohibited degrees of relationship” that currently bar people marrying those who are considered too closely related.

This raises the prospect of relationships until now considered too incestuous being permitted.

Great news!

Minister Fitzgerald responded: “Senator Norris raised the issue of prohibited degrees of relationship. The Department of Justice and Equality and the Department of Social Protection are currently considering a review of prohibited degrees of relationship based on affinity and the prohibitions based on familial relationships by marriage. I agree with Senator Norris that some should be reviewed and we will look at that. I would add that the prohibited degrees are not exclusively about genetics but about power disparity or abuse within families."

I would refer her to Discredited Arguments #18 & 20.


Ireland should do this. First cousins are already free to marry, so this would be closer relationships of affinity and consanguinamory.

Meanwhile, in Abu Dhabi, emirates247.com reports...

An Abu Dhabi court sentenced a man and his half-sister to six years in prison after they were found guilty of marrying and forging official documents.

The forgery would not have happened if there weren't absurd laws denying the right to marry.

The unnamed man, appealing the verdict, denied having any affair with his sister and told court that they married in an Asian country so he could bring her to the UAE.

Whatever the case, they should've been free to be legally married in UAE.

Police arrested the couple after their mother reported their marriage and told court later that her son and his sister are living in Abu Dhabi as “husband and wife”.

Well, they were. Ratted out by a family member. Don't do that.

The semi-official daily ‘Al Ittihad’ said the mother decided to report the couple after her son kicked her out of home.

Ah, so it was revenge? That's too bad. I wonder if this is a Genetic Sexual Attraction case?

Words Matter

Emma at thetriadnextdoor.wordpress.com takes a look at the terms "same-sex marriage" and "marriage equality" in relation to polyamory.

The alternative term, ‘marriage equality’ implies that once gays can marry, marriage rights will be equal across the board. And you can bet your ass I don’t agree with that sentiment.

As we say here, the limited monogamous same-gender freedom to marry is great, but we're working for full marriage equality.

That’s when I found a happy medium in my own mind. We don’t need to change the term ‘marriage equality’ to be inclusive of polyamourous relationships. We just need to change its context. Marriage equality is a term that can be used for both same-sex couples and polyamorous families… and it doesn’t have to mean both at the same time. The US recently achieved marriage equality for same-sex couples, but that doesn’t have to imply they achieved marriage equality all-round.

There's still so much work to be done.