NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #3

“Not a lot of people want to do it” or “I don’t want to do it.” This is not a justification for keeping something illegal. If anything, it is a reason laws against consensual adult relationships are wasteful and unnecessary. But we don’t deny minorities rights based on majority vote. Also, people would be surprised to know just how many people around them are in, or want to be in, or have been in, a relationship that is currently illegal or otherwise discriminated against.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html


Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #2

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #4

Innocent Bystanders Hurt by the Closet

Leo Aspen, who leaves thoughtful comments here from time to time, left a comment worthy of being highlighted as a post. I will redact certain words because I don’t want them published on the blog, even as comments, because I want this blog to be as “safe for work” as a blog with this subject matter can be.

Leo’s thoughts are his. I’m simply sharing them.

Here’s is what Leo shared…

*****

I read a post on Reddit today:
https://www.reddit.com/r/survivinginfidelity/comments/1ovarir/triggered_today_by_tiktok/ which I cite below.

It touches on two of the most painful topics of human relationships - "incest"/consanguinamory and infidelity.

Of course, on the r/survivinginfidelity sub, everyone quite rightly curses OP's husband for infidelity, and "incest" with his sister serves as an additional fuel and "aggravating circumstance." Redditors also relish the fact that almost all of his family are habitual cheaters, that is, "the apple doesn't fall far from the apple tree."

Can we say something in defense of this incestuous couple, given that our community supports consanguinamory?

There seems to be only one argument: if society, the state, and religion had been tolerant of sexually romantic relationships between blood relatives, then most likely the OP's husband would never have married her, and the brother and sister would have been able to live as a "normal couple."

But this is a very weak, ambiguous excuse based on the obviously unacceptable "if something had happened" defense argument.

The brother and sister had several honest ways to be together. A brother might not have married an OP, knowing that he loved his sister.

If their feelings had flared up after the wedding he could have divorced his wife and only then started cohabiting with his sister.

Or, by staying married for the sake of children, he and she might not cross the line. And in these cases, our sympathies would be unconditionally on their side. 

But they preferred a dirty affair rather than a decent, morally justified relationship. And with their irresponsible behavior, they destroyed 2 families causing irreparable damage to the children.

But these siblings have also done great damage to the goals of Full Marriage Equality by linking the concepts of "incest" and "infidelity" together in the minds of many people. "Look, they say, everyone who has had sexual relations with relatives has proved once again that they are trash." And we won't be able to prove these people wrong.

Incest/consanguinamy, like any sexually romantic relationship between unrelated people, should be ethical and should not cause moral or physical harm to third parties. Only in this case do we have a chance that society will someday be tolerant of any sexual identification and the free choice of any sexual partner(s) by any person.

[Below is what Leo found on Reddit]
.............................................................................
u/Smart-Cod4884

Triggered today by tiktok
Need Support
So f—-info broken today and trying not to lose my s—- in front of my kids.

Saw a post today that said "my lacy is my boyfriends sister" which from what I gathered its someone that you envy to the point of hating them bc they have everything you could ever want. One of the top comments said "at least she cant steal your man"

My husband's sister is my lacy and she did steal my man. My husband cheated on me with his own sister. What the f—- did I do to deserve that. It has been so incredibly hard trying to work through this. I trusted him. I trusted her. She was in our wedding. I didnt get the option. I wouldnt have married him. I would've cut my losses and moved far far away. I didnt find out until I was 30 weeks pregnant with our second child, 4 years into them sleeping together. Every time we went to any family event they were sneaking away. While I was in the same house. While our child was in the same house.
.....................................................................

*****

Thank you for your thoughtful analysis, Leo, and sharing that perspective from the “unwitting beard.”

Cheating is never ideal. I do agree, Leo, that with relationship rights for all, situations like these would be less likely to happen.

I’ve heard from people who’ve been cheated on because their spouse has entered into additional bonds with at least one close relative. I’ve heard from many more people who are the person cheating with at least one close relative.

I welcome the perspectives from all of them because the more we understand what’s happening and why, the better.

We need to ensure laws and larger society affirm that people will have diverse relationships, and that also includes ending relationships or not entering into sexual or romantic or partner relationships at all. Oppression, discrimination, bigotry, prejudice, bullying, criminalization… trying to force everyone into some narrow, heterosexual, monogamous, intraracial (that’s same race), non-consanguineous construct causes all sorts of problems.

For anyone who needs to talk more about these things, Keith can be reached on Wire messaging at fullmarriageequality and via email at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com.

NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #2

“It goes against tradition.” So did the abolition of slavery. In reality, (adult) intergenerational, interracial marriages, same-gender marriages, polygamous or polyamorous marriages, and consanguineous marriages are nothing new. Some of these were entered into by prominent religious leaders and historical royalty. Regardless, a tradition of inequality is not a justification for continuing to deny equality.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #1

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #3 

Veterans Day

November 11 is usually the Veterans Day holiday in the US.

I can’t help but think of the people who risked their lives (and those who gave them) and endured so many things in service to their country, who weren’t and haven’t been free to be who they really are and share their lives openly with the person or persons they love.

Recent years have brought progress, and we have to fight to keep what we've gained while still looking for more progress. Problematic laws and policies remain, and, of course, LGBTQ+ people, the nonmonogamous and polyamorous, and consanguinamorous still endure the the threat of prosecution, persecution, or discrimination.

Shouldn’t someone who risked their life for this country be able to marry more than one person, or a biological relative? Or at least share a life with the person(s) they love without a fear that their own government will be against them? Is bravery and valor negated if a man loves more than one woman, or his long lost sister? Shouldn’t a woman who served be free to marry both of the women she loves?

Let’s thank our veterans, some of whom were drafted into service, especially those who are still being treated as second class citizens.

Answering Arguments Against Polyamory

People who insist monogamy is the only acceptable relationship model, or that polyamorists should not have the same rights for their relationships as monogamists, almost always cite a few often-repeated reasons as to why. If you're polyamorous, you’ve probably heard most of these reasons, whether from coworkers, family, or complete strangers. Although I’m going to focus on polyamorous relationships, most of these are also applicable to open relationships, swinging, swapping, nonmonogamous sex, and ethical nonmonogamy in general whether the people involved identify as polyamorous or not.

Just about any objection people have to polyamory or other forms of ethical nonmonogamy fit into these common arguments, perhaps with different wording. Just so that you know, when I use the term “polygamy” I am referring to a subset of polyamory that involves marriage (whether by law, ceremony, or declaration of those involved), involving three or more spouses, whatever the structure of the relationship or the genders involved, as long as all involved are consenting adults.

1. “It is disgusting.” Also known as the “ick” or “eww” factor, this explains why the person using the argument would not want to have a polyamorous relationship, but their own personal disgust is not a justification for preventing other people from having a polyamorous relationship. Some people are disgusted by the idea of heterosexual sex, or their own parents having sex, but obviously this is not a justification to ban those things. Obviously, the consenting adults who want a polyamorous relationship aren’t disgusted by it. An effective response to this is “Don’t want a polyamorous relationship? Don’t have one.”

Planning For The Holidays

The year-end holidays are coming up. In the US, that is kicked off with Thanksgiving, which is the fourth Thursday in November. This year that the 27th. That has traditionally meant seeing family, such as parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, grandparents, nieces, nephews, cousins, etc.

If you might be getting together with family for Thanksgiving, Hanukkah, Winder Solstice, Christmas, Kwanzaa, New Year's Eve/Day, or any other holiday coming up, you might be facing specific decisions and considerations, especially if you're in an interracial relationship or an age gap relationship, or are LGBTQ+, nonmonogamous, consanguinamorous, or are exploring/living out kinks and certain dynamics:

• Avoiding hostile people
• Keeping closeted
• Coming out
• Making a move

You are under no obligation to spend holidays with people who are hostile to you because of your gender, orientation, relationships, or kinks, even if they are related to you. Repeat that to yourself as needed.

That being said, if there is just one or two hostile people and there will be dozen or more other people, consider if you can go and simply avoid the hostile people. Some families and gatherings allow for that.

What you tell people, how, and when, is up to you. If you're not ready to come out to the people you'd be spending time with, you shouldn't have to. Or, if you think coming out now to one, more, or all of the people who will be there would be best, you'll need to prepare yourself for emotionally for that.

As far as making a move, if there is a person or people likely to be there you want to "get closer to," whether relatives or family friends, plan ahead for the possibilities. Will there be a way to get them alone? Would it be good to get things in motion ahead of time through texts, messages, video chats, calls, etc.? Or do you want to wait until you're face to face to get things in motion or back into motion, as the situation might be?

Plan ahead and make the most of the season. What that means is up to you. For some of you, it will be making plans with friends and "found family" or your partner(s) and their families. Others will make the most of their opportunities by going "home." Plans can change, and that's fine. But do consider what you might want to do.

If you need someone to talk with or to give you feedback about your plans, or you just want to say hello to Keith, you can do so, as always, by emailing fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com or message him on Wire at fullmarriageequality or on Facebook.

You can also comment with your thoughts, plans, or past experiences below.

Happy Halloween!

Halloween is October 31 and it is celebrated widely and diversely here in the US, with some events happening in the weeks before.

Do you have any special plans for Halloween? Have you done or will you do anything fun or interesting this year at a Halloween party or event?

Whatever you do, please be careful and stay safe!

Here in the states, the stores depend on Halloween to sell a lot of merchandise. In typical years, there are parties, costume contests, what amounts to theatre in front of (and inside, sometimes) the homes of people as they try to scare or entertain neighbors and strangers with things ranging from silly to sexy, spooky to gory. In some places, kids (and often parents) in costumes go from door to door collecting candy or other treats.

Many amusement parks, ranging from small to the largest, do special entertainment in the weeks leading up to Halloween, and this is a favorite time of the year for movie studios to release horror movies, and for streamers and broadcasters to show ones from years past.

For some, there are religious or spiritual aspects to the day, and it might be called by other names.

Some interesting things can happen when people are having fun at costume parties, or cuddled up together watching scary movies. Maybe you'll be home with family or other loved ones, watching something good or playing some fun games?

So, as always, feel free to comment or share your plans or stories, including from years past. You can comment anonymously below.

If you think you might want to make your move to add a bond with one or more people, and you need to talk with someone about it, consider reaching out Keith via email at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com or on the Wire messaging app at fullmarriageequality.

Benefits of Increased Consanguineous Affection

Anonymous asked as this blog's sister Tumblr [which no longer exists]…

If you were asked to list the top reason why parents and (grown) sons & daughters should be more intimate with each other, without it turning into a full-blown relationship, what would they be?

Sex is fun.

At least for most people.

Sex in general can have many benefits, but there are some benefits that are increased by, or particular to, consanguineous sex. And by “sex,” I’m being inclusive of what some would call “foreplay.”

Familiarity - Who better to share these experiences with than someone you know, love, and trust?

Love - Sharing and expressing love in more ways.

Proximity - Often you live in the same residence or will be spending time with each other anyway. This is convenient. If you don’t live in the same residence, it can incentivize getting together more often.

Touching - Touch, hugs, embraces, cuddling, massaging… these can be good to do with each other, and you can do more if you’re not avoiding certain areas of the body.

Exercise - Sex is good exercise.

Strengthening Muscles

Stress and Tension Relief

Motivation - “We will celebrate with oral sex if you get this done.”

Orgasms - Many people who’ve engaged in consanguinamory say that they have more intense orgasms and more orgasms over all. But you’re definitely going to have more orgasms than if you’re not having sex at all and not masturbating because you’re around family. If your family is open, encouraging, and assisting with masturbation and sex, you can have more just from that alone.

Bonding - This adds and strengthens bonds within the family.

Peace - It can encourage peace instead of bickering between family members.

Knowing - Getting to know your family members better.

Gift - It can be doing something nice for your family members, and/or a gift to yourself.

Learning - Learning about your own body, learning about bodies; learning techniques, positions, and variations; learning how to effectively use condoms, toys, and other aids.

Practice - Practicing what you’ve learned.

Experience - Experimenting in a safe space. You might not ever have done a particular thing with someone else before, and might not ever do it with someone outside of the family. For example, a heterosexual man touching his brother’s erection, or a lesbian doing the same.

New to This Blog or Looking to Find Out More?

We support the rights of an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, to share love, sex, kink, residence, and marriage (and any other union offered by law), and any of those things without the others, with any and all consenting adults, without fear of prosecution, bullying, or discrimination. These are basic human rights under a system of gender equality and it shouldn't matter who is disgusted by the relationships of other adults or who doesn't understand why the adults would want to be together. Inherent in these rights is the right to NOT be in a relationship, NOT to marry, and to divorce or leave a relationship.

If you're viewing the desktop/laptop version, you'll see that over there in the column on the right you can find ways to connect and to follow this blog, and at the top of the page are tabs with drop-downs of some important pages, entries, and links. If you're viewing a mobile version, many of the links are below.

You are welcomed and affirmed here regardless of your gender, sexuality, or relationship diversities, and whether you are looking for more information, are in the closet or out about your gender, sexual orientation, or relationship, or want to be an ally. Are you here because of polyamory or polygamy? Perhaps you're here because this blog covers Genetic Sexual Attraction or consanguinamory (consensual incest) or because you think or know your partner has been involved? Do you need help? Whether you're a family member or friend who is looking for more information, or a journalist, or are someone who is looking to help the cause, we hope you are helped by what is here.

There's an About This Blog page, and you can read about the triad who originally inspired this blog.

There's a Glossary so that you can become familiar with terms frequently used here.

We explain why we need solidarity in supporting full marriage equality and we debunk all the arguments that you'll ever hear made against equality, so if you're against equal rights, please carefully read through that page.

On the Case Studies page we feature interviews with people who have been denied their rights, so you can "meet" people who are, or have been, in consensual loving relationships who have are harmed by the lack of equality under the law.

This blog is a labor of love. There's no advertising and we don't accept monetary contributions. Want to help? Spread the word. If you are a lawyer, attorney, or someone who works with a legal group or law firm, we'd like to hear from you if you are supportive. Also, this blog DOES accept content submissions (Keith can be contacted at... fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com), but makes no offer, implicit nor explicit, of compensation nor guarantees that it will be used. If you want to tell your story, that would be very helpful to others!

Tell us what you think by commenting or by contacting us.

Join our Facebook group "I Support Full Marriage Equality."

Keith wants to be friends with all who support full marriage equality and relationship rights for all adults. Be Facebook friends with Keith.

Follow the X (Twitter) account for this blog.

If you don't want to connect, still feel free to send Keith a note at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com

Myths about Genetic Sexual Attraction
Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory
Bad Reasons to Deny Love
Ten Reasons Why Consensual Incest is Wrong (Sarcastic) 

Spirit Day 2025

Thursday, October 16 is Spirit Day. Among varying activities, people wear purple in support of LGBTQ+ youth, against bullying.

Nobody should be bullied, harassed, or discriminated against because of their gender, sexuality, or relationship diversities or those of their family members or friends.

Are you observing Spirit Day? Leave a comment below telling us about it.

Defend people against prejudice, bullying, harassment, and discrimination. You can make a difference!

How You Can Help

NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #1

“It is disgusting.” Also known as the “ick” or “eww” factor, this explains why the person using the argument would not want to enter into the type of relationship or marriage or have the kind sex they want banned, but their own personal disgust is not a justification for preventing other people from doing something those other people want to do. Don’t want to have an (adult) intergenerational or interracial or same-gender or polyamorous or consanguineous marriage? Don’t have one. Some people are disgusted by the idea of heterosexual sex, or their parents having sex, but obviously this is not a justification to ban those things. Some people find prejudice and bigotry, a lack of marriage equality, disgusting. Meanwhile, the people in these relationships aren’t disgusted. How they love each other should be be up to them.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #2

Coming Out Day 2025 is Saturday

Life can be tough for someone whose identity and orientation doesn’t fit in to a narrow little heterosexual, monogamous, "traditional"-gender-role box or whose relationship doesn’t meet the local sex police’s approved standards. Sometimes, a person or the people in a relationship want to come out of the closet. Sometimes they need to come out. For some of these people, it is a little less difficult if they do so as part of a communal event, such as National Coming Out Day.

National Coming Out Day is Saturday, October 11. Here’s the official website, at least for the US. There is much helpful information there, regardless of where you live.

The more people that come out, the more the others around them will realize they do know and appreciate people who are LGBTQ+, or polyamorous or otherwise nonmonogamous, or consanguinamorous, and that such people and relationships deserve equality. So coming out helps progress.

On the other hand, it is understandable that any given person, couple, triad, or quad decides to stay in the closet for now. There’s still so much hate, so much prejudice and persecution, and even unjust laws that hinder the life and love of people who are good citizens and just want to be themselves. I support the decision of anyone who believes they need to be reserved for now for the sake of their safety and family.

The decision to come out is yours. Do you want to come out, and to whom? Your friends? Your family? Your coworkers? Your classmates? Your neighbors? Your crush? The whole world?

Also, if someone comes out to you, the decision to be an ally is yours. If your classmate, coworker, neighbor, friend, parent, child, or sibling comes to you and says they are gay, lesbian, bisexual, polysexual, pansexual, transgender, non-binary, genderfluid, polyamorous, nonmonogamous, consanguinamorous or in a consanguinamorous relationship, what will you do? Will you choose love and acceptance?

Even if you are heterosexual, monogamous, and nonconsanguinamorous, you may want to come out as an ally for full marriage equality. That alone can take courage, but it helps.

If you are planning to come out, or you do come out, please feel free to share your experience here by commenting. You can do so anonymously. You are also welcome to contact Keith if you want someone to talk with. The best ways to do that are to email fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com or message fullmarriageequality on the Wire messaging app.

Coming Out Consanguinamorous

Introduction

"Coming out" means declaring or no longer hiding that you're consanguinamorous in orientation or in a consanguinamorous relationship. Whether, when, to whom, and how to come out is something that can weigh on the mind of a consanguinamorous person.

Getting to decide whether, when, to whom, and how to come out is a privilege that is sometimes denied people who are outed against their will or by accident. Consanguinamorous people should seriously consider how to protect themselves.

Please note this entry is about coming out in general, such as to family, friends, etc., not about coming out to a romantic/sexual/spousal partner. That has many different considerations and warrants its own entry.

Stay in the Closet If/Until...

Basic Facts About Sex

Based on some of the people who reach out to me, various places on this planet have an appalling lack of sex education. 

That is why I am posting this.

Others have already made basic information about sex accessible online, so I will be linking to them. But there are few things I wanted to stress below.

First, a couple of important links that can answer many questions.

WebMD Health and Sex Guide

Scarleteen

Spend time looking for answers to your questions at those links.

Now, some important things everyone should know...

Do These Relationships Work?

A search phrase that once brought someone here on which I want to focus is…

"do incest relationships work"

To answer that, one must describe what means for a relationship to "work."

For some people, a relationship only "works" if it is heterosexual and always monogamous, involves religious and civilly affirmed marriage, produces (or at least raises) children, and lasts until one of the spouses dies.

For me, a relationship "works" if you are, as a whole and excluding artificial negatives like prosecution and discrimination, better off as a result of having been in the relationship. What makes you "better off" is up to you. It could be strictly that you enjoyed this person's company, but it could also be that you had children together, or helped each other grow as people, or made new friends through the other person, or helped each other's careers, or... well, any number of things. A relationship doesn't have to last until death to leave you better off.

A sure sign a relationship isn't working is if one of you is abusing the other, or you're abusing each other.

Over the years, I've been fortunate enough to talk with countless people who've been involved in consanguinamory. A few of them have even been generous enough to be interviewed. For most of the people I've talked with, the relationships have worked. If the consanguinamory is in the past, they have fond memories of the great times that were shared and the emotional growth they had as a result, even the sexual confidence they developed. For many, the relationship continues and provides times of unmatched bliss and intense intimacy, even shared parenting that they have found fulfilling.

So yes, they can and do work.

And, by the way, some of them are heterosexual, always monogamous, produce and raise great people, and last until death, and it is an injustice that they are still discriminated against under the law whether it not they check off any of those boxes.

National Sons Day

In the US, Sunday, September 28 is National Sons Day.

Celebrate sons. All sons, regardless of sexual orientation or relationships. 

Whether they are cis, trans, fluid, or whatever their identity, if they are sons, it is their day.

Are you a son?

Do you have a son? If you have a son, it's time to think about the good things he's brought into your life and what you can do to show your support and appreciation.

Are you celebrating?

Do tell in the comments below.

If you have something to share or ask you don’t want in the comments, you can write to Keith at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com

National Daughters Day

Thursday, September 25, is National Daughters Day.

Celebrate daughters. All daughters, regardless of sexual orientation or relationships. 

Whether they are cis, trans, fluid, or whatever their identity, if they are daughters, today is their day.

Are you a daughter?

Do you have a daughter?

Are you celebrating?

Do tell in the comments below.

If you have something to share or ask you don’t want in the comments, you can write to Keith at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com 

Polyamory is Not Synonymous With Promiscuity

Polyamorists are diverse. About the only thing all polyamorous people have in common is that they are 1) people and 2) polyamorous. There are polyamorous people everywhere, and there always have been. Some tend to conform to the larger culture around them and seem as "average" as can be, some are countercultural. Polyamorists vary in sexual orientations, philosophies, faith traditions, political affiliations, lifestyles, and just about every way humans can be diverse.

They are also diverse in how they live out polyamory, which is why "polyamory" is definitely not synonymous with "promiscuity" if promiscuity is defined as "the practice of having casual sex frequently with different partners or being indiscriminate in the choice of sexual partners."

Some polyamorists never engage in casual sex and are very particular about their choice of sexual partners, and some will have fewer sexual partners over the course of their life than many people who identify as monogamous. Yes, there are some polyamorists who are promiscuous, but promiscuous polyamorists aren't the only people who are promiscuous.

None of this is to intended to be negative towards casual sex or promiscuity. just to clarify that polyamory and promiscuity are not the same thing. Someone can have two lifelong partners they didn't have sex with until well into their relationship and be polyamorous. And just because someone enjoys some casual sex with a few different people doesn't mean, necessarily, that they are polyamorous.

One of the beautiful things about letting consenting adults negotiate their own encounters and relationships without laws or other forms of discrimination interfering is that you can have things the way you feel is best and your neighbor can have completely different relationships, and you and your lovers can all have what you need. This is yet another reason to support full marriage equality and relationship rights for all.

Frequently Asked Question: Can Siblings Marry?

The following is based on my understanding. I’m not at attorney and this should not be considered legal advice.

Can siblings marry?

I’m not aware of any government that will currently and knowingly marry full-blood siblings or recognize a marriage of full-blood siblings; rather, if it was discovered by the authorities after an official marriage was formed that the spouses were, in fact, siblings, the marriage would be dissolved and considered invalid. If the spouses knew they were siblings when they married, they would be subject to prosecution. If they discovered the genetic relationship after getting married, they would have to file for an annulment or dissolution or risk prosecution.

Where sibling consanguinamory isn’t still banned by law, siblings can have a wedding ceremony and live the married life, although under discrimination, as their government will not recognize their marriage and they will not get treated equally. Consulting a family law or estate attorney might be worth it for siblings who want some of the legal aspects of marriage. DO explain to the attorney of you genetic/legal relation as siblings. DO NOT tell the attorney you are lovers. Explain you would prefer each other to essentially be next of kin and reciprocal beneficiaries over and above anyone else (like your parents or another sibling); you want as much of a personal-social partnership as the law allows. 

Intergenerational Relationships Can Work

Are you in or considering an intergenerational relationship? Are you against such relationships?

By “intergenerational,” I’m talking about ADULT generations. I’m talking about CONSENTING ADULTS. I just wanted to get that out of the way. I’m not talking about adults preying on minors, pedophilia, etc.

The Bad

Although not illegal, nonconsanguineous relationships between adults with a sizable age difference do face prejudice and discrimination. Stereotypical assumptions, expressed as though they are automatically negative, are made about both the younger and older people involved in such relationships.

The older person, depending on age/gender, is often said to be:

What Genealogists Know

With each previous generation you trace back, the maximum possible number of your genetic ancestors doubles. You can have 2 parents, up to 4 grandparents, up to 8 great-grandparents, up to 16 great-great-grandparents, etc.

On average, there are about four generations per century. For people born in the year 2000, their 8 great-great-grandparents were probably born around 1900. Sometime around 1800 their great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents were born (there may be up to 128 of them). About 29 generations back, or roughly around the time of 1250-1300, the total number of your possible ancestors for that generation equals or exceeds the total population of the planet, which was about 500 million people.

What gives? Well, first of all, if all 500 million of those people were your ancestors, they would also be the ancestors of all of the rest of us, too.

Secondly, you probably don’t have every person alive back then as your ancestor. There wasn’t a lot of interracial or intercultural parenting going on back then. People were more isolated, more people lived in rural countrysides rather than dense urban areas, and people were not nearly as geographically or socially mobile as they are today. It was very common for a person to be born in and to die in the the same village or town, having lived all of her or his life there.

This means that for many, many, many, many generations, there was a lot of what most people would call today “inbreeding.” If your spouse wasn’t your first cousin, your spouse was likely a second or third cousin, or a second cousin-once removed, or even your double-cousin, etc. And as I’ve noted before, even if they weren’t marrying them, people were having children with siblings, aunts or uncles, etc. (Even if not having children together, what do you think went on, given that pubescent teens, like most children, were usually sharing a bedroom?) Not only did these things not destroy humanity, but in Europe, the Renaissance was birthed in these conditions.

Coming back to around 1800, very few people are likely to have 128 great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents, just like very few of those people in 1800 had 128 of them in 1600. Because chances are, some of your recent ancestors were cousins, if not closer. If you marry your first cousin, you have no more than six genetic grandparents between you, instead of eight. If your parents are first cousins, you have six great-grandparents instead of eight.

If “inbreeding” was as detrimental as common misconception says, none of us would be here.

 

Labor Day Weekend

In the US, the first Monday in September is the Labor Day holiday, making this weekend an extended holiday weekend.

Friends and family often go to the beach or get together.

Although most schools now start before Labor Day, it’s still considered the cultural “end of summer,” although the meteorological end of summer always falls about September 21.

In the northern hemisphere, warm temperatures, beachgoing or poolside socializing, and perhaps some alcohol make it a festive time. 

If you have any special plans or end up having any special experiences with family or friends, tell us about it below in the comments. You can stay anonymous. For some of you, this will be a chance to make a move to initiate something you’ve wanted to do.

Be safe and have fun!

We Keep Speaking Up For All

This blog has been here for a long time now.

Our civil rights and human rights movement continues. This blog is just a small part of a growing movement.

Don’t let pessimism, bigotry, or temporary setbacks deter you.

Let’s keep speaking up for, and ushering in, rights for all.

Every adult should be free to share love, sex, kink, residence, and marriage, and any of those without the other, with any and all consenting adults.

I can’t always spend as much time blogging as I’d like. I’m on Twitter, Facebook, Quora, and Reddit daily. You can also message me (Keith) on Wire at fullmarriageequality and email fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com

I rotate past-but-still-relevant posts up to the top for newer visitors. If you usually read this blog on a feed, you might only see new posts, not previous posts when they’re bumped up. But as you’ll see if you visit the blog proper, it’s still active. Traffic to the blog continues to be high, and as always, I don’t monetize that; this blog is here as a labor of love.

People pass.

Babies are born.

Children grow up.

Life continues.

So does our worthy cause.

When you comment on this blog, be sure follow the instructions or your comment won’t get published or I might only publish it as a new, edited post, which can take me a while to get around to doing.

Why Attempt to Suppress Affection?

Why would anyone waste time, energy, and other resources attempting to suppress affection or recreation between mutually consenting people?

Do you have a personal dislike of some forms of sex, or certain people? So what? Why do you even feel a need to tell people sharing love or play that you disapprove, let alone try to censor or criminalize them?

Who are they harming? Who are they endangering?

Life is short. Don’t waste yours trying to stop other people from being affectionate or playful with each other.

Don’t fight against equality; that’s a threat to freedom.

Rather, show solidarity and support the rights of all. You’ll find it makes you a better person overall. Love is better than hate.

Consulting An Attorney If You Can't Legally Marry

If we had relationship rights for all, including full marriage equality, so many of the troubles facing so many people would go away.

But we don't have that yet.

So people in certain relationships face discrimination ranging from employment and housing discrimination, to denial of the freedom to marry, to imprisonment.

In the US, the people who help you with matters of law are called lawyers or attorneys. Other terms might be used in other countries.

In the US, you still can't be legally married to more than one person at the same time, and you can't be married to someone who is "too closely" related to you. (How close is "too close" varies by state.)

If you are in such a relationship, you can still have certain things similar to being legally married, such as:

• shared financial accounts and investments
• shared purchases, ownerships, and sales
• sharing a residence
• beneficiary or reciprocal beneficiary status
• hospital visitation
• being able to make decisions for one another should one of you become unable to communicate or dementia, memory loss, or mental illness necessitates someone else make decisions on your behalf

Without being legally married and without having paperwork that says otherwise, partners are not treated as next of kin or survivors; a biological or legal relative, even if estranged, indifferent or hostile will usually be considered next of kin, be able to make medical decisions, exclude partners from hospital visits, and claim ownership of the person's estate when they pass.

It might be worth it for you and your partner(s) to consult a family law and/or estate planning attorney. A good attorney can come up with the paperwork that will allow you to be responsible for each other, before and above anyone else.

DO NOT tell the attorney, no matter how kind and trustworthy, you’re lovers. They don’t need to know that and it can only cause problems. Rather, explain what it is you want, which might involve joint ownership or control of something financial, “power of attorney,” "medical power of attorney," reciprocal beneficiaries, and whatever else. Explain you want to be able to make decisions for each other and visit each other, before/above anyone else. You want to be considered primary next of kin to each other, you want custody of your minor children to go to each other in the event one of you passes - if that's what you want.

Over the years, some partners have used adoption, with one partner legally adopting their adult partner(s).

What options work best for you and your partner(s) can be determined if you hire a good lawyer. Lawyers aren't cheap, but depending on what you want, their help can be worth it.

Keep in mind that in situations in which genetic relatives were raised apart, they are often not considered family for things like inheritance, but are still treated like family when it comes to prosecuting them for being together. That is just one example of why they might need the help of an attorney and yet shouldn't tell the attorney if they are lovers.

Sibling Rivalry or Sibling Revelry

I used to be active on a certain Big Online Portal's question-and-answer feature, answering questions related to full marriage equality and relationship rights for all adults, and occasionally questions about teenager sexuality. I still read what goes on there. Every once in a while, someone will ask a question like this...

I caught my siblings making out, what should i do?

I caught my 16 year old sister and 17 year old brother making out, I don't really know what to do. To be honest I'm very shocked, and a bit disoriented thinking about it. They're both pretty attractive, I don't see why they would shack up with each other when they could go out and get people who... aren't related to them.

I want to tell ma and pa, but they begged me not to, don't really know how to approach this situation, Or if I should just respect their privacy. I guess I'm just worried about their mental health, but I guess that's pretty unfair of me to assume something is wrong with them.

What do i do?

For all we know, the teens "making out" with each other are both half-siblings to the asker, and unrelated to each other, or they could be stepsiblings or adopted siblings. Or, they could be half or full-blood siblings to each other. (It might have even been a reunion Genetic Sexual Attraction situation if the siblings have not been raised together.) Whatever their genetic, legal, and social relation, it isn't uncommon for siblings as close in age as they are, especially in their teens, to have such affection between them.

Also, we don't know where they live, and thus whether or not they live somewhere where it is legal for a 17-year-old and 16-year-old to have sex with each other.

Most therapists consider such sibling behavior, absent any coercion, force, or intimidation, to be mutual experimentation or exploration.

In general, however, my advice to someone in the asker's position is to:

1. Confirm this is a voluntary activity. If observing wasn't enough, ask the younger/smaller/less assertive/more needy sibling if they are being pressured, intimidated, coerced, or forced in any way.

2. Respect their privacy. Start by reminding them it's a good idea to be discreet and promise you will knock.

3. Protect and support them.

4. If needed, assist them in accessing contraception and health care.

(See this extensive advice at The Final Manifesto for friends and family of consanguinamorous siblings.)

Talk It Over and Discuss the Possibilities

People come to this blog because they are having feelings or experiences that are often met with prejudice elsewhere, or they know someone who is having such feelings or experiences. If you're not sure your partner(s) would accept your feelings or fantasies, the information below might help. Maybe you can show this to them and see if they'll agree to discussions.

Clinical psychologist David J. Ley, Ph.D. wrote something very helpful at psychologytoday.com titled "3 Ways to Meet Your Partner’s Sexual Ideals and Why You Should"...

Viewing your partner’s sexual ideals and needs as important and valuable protects and enhances your relationship. Even if you can’t meet your partners’ sexual ideals, sexual communion mitigates the degree to which that mismatch negatively impacts your relationship.

Ley goes on to describe how to start to use this. Although Ley is writing about partners, this also might be helpful for people who are not yet partners, such as if there is someone who is in your life as a family member or friend but you want to add a sexual bond to your relationship.

Nonjudgmental Listening. The best, first, and most important way that partners can express sexual communion with each other is by communicating about their sexual likes and dislikes, in a manner that involves respect and acceptance. Acknowledging and valuing your partners’ sexual preferences is a critical and meaningful way to let them feel valued and accepted as a person, within your relationship. Have a conversation (actually, it’s best to have lots of little conversations as opposed to just one big one) with your partner about their sexual needs and experiences. Try to make them feel like you are interested and curious about their sexuality. Believe it or not, this is as valuable in long-term relationships with decades of history as it is in fresher relationships. Most people never tell anyone, even their life partners, about their sexual fantasies and interests, for fear of rejection and judgment.

Emphasis mine. Listening is so important. Getting your partner(s) to open up and share with you is the way to grow and deepen the relationship.

Tale as Old as Time

This blog is about relationship rights for all adults, especially the right to marry any and all consenting adults. It is not about criticizing nor promoting any philosophy towards religion, spiritual considerations, superstitions, the paranormal or supernatural, any religious text or writings/traditions/beliefs/practices/systems/organizations considered sacred, inspired, of authoritative by some, nor skepticism when it comes to such things.

There are both allies and opponents of relationship rights and full marriage equality in just about every religion and among those who claim no religion, and I welcome allies no matter what tradition, if any, they prefer or reject.

With that out of the way…

Considering the Bible as literature, which anyone can do whether they are a devout Christian, a Deist, a Hindu, an Atheist, or an Antitheist or take some other path, one can see that the Bible implies, outright portrays, and further addresses consanguineous sex.

Frequently, someone will ask “Where did Cain get his wife?” or “Did Adam and Eve’s children have sex with each other?” or some variation. Whether someone considers this speculation about fanciful myths or actual history is irrelevant to analyzing what the text itself says.

Frequently Asked Question: Why Do Polyamorists Get Married?

The question is asked as though the person asking assumes that actual monogamy is a requirement for marriage. It isn’t in most places, even though current marriage laws will only allow monogamy in the legal sense.

For the purpose of this question and answer, I will include any form of honest nonmonogamy, or any label applied, such as open relationship, open marriage, swinging, swapping, polyamory, polyfidelity and polygamy.

Why do swingers get married?

Why do people in open relationships get married?

Why do polyamorous people get married?

The short answer is: For the same reason most other people get married. They want to get married, they think it is the best thing to do at that time in life, or they’re pressured.