What Genealogists Know

With each previous generation you trace back, the maximum possible number of your genetic ancestors doubles. You can have 2 parents, up to 4 grandparents, up to 8 great-grandparents, up to 16 great-great-grandparents, etc.

On average, there are about four generations per century. For people born in the year 2000, their 8 great-great-grandparents were probably born around 1900. Sometime around 1800 their great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents were born (there may be up to 128 of them). About 29 generations back, or roughly around the time of 1250-1300, the total number of your possible ancestors for that generation equals or exceeds the total population of the planet, which was about 500 million people.

What gives? Well, first of all, if all 500 million of those people were your ancestors, they would also be the ancestors of all of the rest of us, too.

Secondly, you probably don’t have every person alive back then as your ancestor. There wasn’t a lot of interracial or intercultural parenting going on back then. People were more isolated, more people lived in rural countrysides rather than dense urban areas, and people were not nearly as geographically or socially mobile as they are today. It was very common for a person to be born in and to die in the the same village or town, having lived all of her or his life there.

This means that for many, many, many, many generations, there was a lot of what most people would call today “inbreeding.” If your spouse wasn’t your first cousin, your spouse was likely a second or third cousin, or a second cousin-once removed, or even your double-cousin, etc. And as I’ve noted before, even if they weren’t marrying them, people were having children with siblings, aunts or uncles, etc. (Even if not having children together, what do you think went on, given that pubescent teens, like most children, were usually sharing a bedroom?) Not only did these things not destroy humanity, but in Europe, the Renaissance was birthed in these conditions.

Coming back to around 1800, very few people are likely to have 128 great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents, just like very few of those people in 1800 had 128 of them in 1600. Because chances are, some of your recent ancestors were cousins, if not closer. If you marry your first cousin, you have no more than six genetic grandparents between you, instead of eight. If your parents are first cousins, you have six great-grandparents instead of eight.

If “inbreeding” was as detrimental as common misconception says, none of us would be here.

 

Tale as Old as Time

This blog is about relationship rights for all adults, especially the right to marry any and all consenting adults. It is not about criticizing nor promoting any philosophy towards religion, spiritual considerations, superstitions, the paranormal or supernatural, any religious text or writings/traditions/beliefs/practices/systems/organizations considered sacred, inspired, of authoritative by some, nor skepticism when it comes to such things.

There are both allies and opponents of relationship rights and full marriage equality in just about every religion and among those who claim no religion, and I welcome allies no matter what tradition, if any, they prefer or reject.

With that out of the way…

Considering the Bible as literature, which anyone can do whether they are a devout Christian, a Deist, a Hindu, an Atheist, or an Antitheist or take some other path, one can see that the Bible implies, outright portrays, and further addresses consanguineous sex.

Frequently, someone will ask “Where did Cain get his wife?” or “Did Adam and Eve’s children have sex with each other?” or some variation. Whether someone considers this speculation about fanciful myths or actual history is irrelevant to analyzing what the text itself says.

Adults Having Their Basic Rights Isn’t Child Abuse

When someone advocates for all adults to have the right to be with any and all consenting adults, or specifically for the rights of polyamorous or consanguineous adult lovers, someone who hasn't bothered to think it through or is being deliberately dishonest might respond with “So, you’re advocating for the abuse of children?”

If this is your response to someone advocating the rights of all CONSENTING ADULTS to be together, something is wrong with your reading comprehension. Adults are not children. Consenting means voluntary, not an abuse situation. Consenting adults being together has nothing to do with abusing children.

Trying, but failing, to avoid looking like ignorant bigots, they might try something like “Yeah but, if we allow polyamorous, polygamous, or plural marriages, or we allow incestuous relationships or marriages, doesn't that make it more likely children will be abused by normalizing it? Isn't the next step moving on to children?”

This is an attempt at guilt by false association. It is something LGBTQ+ people have been dealing with forever. “If you allow gay people to be together, it will make it easier to molest children!” It simply doesn’t follow. It’s a lie that most LGBTQ+ people want to abuse children, and it is likewise a lie that people who are ethically nonmonogamous or consanguinamorous want to abuse children. Child abusers are going to try to abuse children. Children will be more likely to be abused and to keep quiet about it the more taboo we keep sex in general.

There are places where consanguinamorous relationships between adults are not criminalized, including a couple of US states. This has not caused an increase in child abuse in these places.

When it comes to ethical nonmonogamy, citing a few isolated villages or compounds where women don’t have equal rights and children are treated as property as proof it leads to child abuse is dishonest. Children are abused by professing monogamists every day, while most parents involved in ethical, disclosed, or consensual nonmonogamy are great parents who are not abusing children in any way.

Keeping unjust discrimination in place is wasting resources vitally needed to prevent and stop actual abuse. It makes it less likely victims and witnesses of abuse will cooperate with authorities if their own relationships are criminalized. Every bit of time and money wasted on trying to stop consenting adults from being together how they mutually agree is time and money that isn’t being spent to help people who are actually being abused.

There is no good reason to deny consenting adults their rights to be together how they mutually agree.

Consanguinamorists Are Part of Society

Bigots against consanguinamory frequently bring up rare examples of individuals or an isolated family in which there has apparently been many generations of close inbreeding, and the problems these individuals or families have. This is supposed to be justification for discriminating against the consanguinamorous.

This is as ridiculous as saying something like, "Look up Scott Peterson" as to why non-consanguinamorous relationships are bad.

Most consanguinamorous relationships are between people like your neighbors, co-workers, classmates, and "ordinary" people you know. You know healthy, bright, attractive, friendly people whose parents are close genetic relatives, whether you know their true genetic parentage or not. They might not even know. Meanwhile, there are people who have inherited serious genetic diseases and their parents were not close genetic relatives.

It is also important to remember that "birth defects" can be caused by many things, including environment, abuse, substances ingested by parents, and other factors.

Two or more closely related individuals wanting to share sex, romance, a residence, or marriage is not the same thing as many generations of isolated inbreeding.

We have examples. For example, we can compare births in US states that have no criminal laws against consanguinamory to states with strict laws against consanguinamory. Spoiler: states that do not criminalize consanguinamory do not have a higher genetic disease rate than states that criminalize first cousins for having sex.

Instead of continuing the discriminate against lovers, we should be encouraging the use of modern science and technology to prevent, mitigate, and treat what is of concern.

It is also important to reject ableist bigotry that dehumanizes people with certain genetic conditions.

This blog does not encourage anyone to literally or figuratively isolate themselves from the rest of society and inbreed in perpetuity for generation after generation, so citing examples of that misses the point.

There simply is no good reason to deny 

consanguineous lovers their fundamental rights, including full marriage equality.

As always, feel free to comment below, which can be done anonymously.

NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #6

“Your relationship will hurt children.” This is usually said by people who themselves hurt children by denying rights to the parents of those children and telling the children that their parents are wrong for loving each other, perpetuating a stigma about the children and their families.

Don’t want children of these relationships to be hurt? Then stop hurting their families.

Adults having a relationship with each other, adults reproducing together, and adults raising children together are three different things. Adults can do any one of those without doing the other two, or any two of those without doing the third. Or, to put it another way, we’re talking about sex, relationships, and marriage, not about reproduction or adoption or parenting. Most sex does not result in a birth.

We don’t deny people their right to be together because they can’t or won’t reproduce. We don’t deny people their right to be together because they won’t be good candidates for adoption. We don’t test people on their parenting skills before we allow them to marry, but if we did, a lot of the prejudiced people who want to deny rights to others would fail, while many people who are still fighting for their relationship rights would pass with flying colors.

So this reason to oppose equality already fails. But for the sake of argument let’s assume there will be children.

Consanguinamorous Youth

This blog is about equal rights for consenting adults.

But what about legal minors? It is dangerous to ignore that many legal minors experiment, explore, and get affectionate. I'm talking about age peers. I'm also addressing young people who have feelings for a parent, aunt, uncle, or other significantly older relative. If an older person is coercing you, or messing with you while you (try to) sleep, that's NOT what this is about. Don't let anyone abuse you!

Much of this entry on how consanguinamorous people can protect themselves is relevant, as can this entry on living together.

This essay is a result of someone anonymous contacting this blog's sister Tumblr to describe a situation he had experienced in his life and to ask if there are any resources to help people who are currently in the position he'd been in so many years ago.

A subsequent message was from a teacher who had to report minors who've revealed their experiences with consanguineous sex, due to mandatory reporting laws that apply to people in certain jobs.

What do you do if you're in a consanguineous relationship or you think you have a consanguinamorous orientation, but you're under the age of consent or not a legal adult?

Please note: Most of this entry is going to be strictly about how things are and practical situations, not about the morality of any given situation or actions. While we welcome all adults and anyone struggling due to prejudice against their gender identity, sexual orientation, or relationships, this entry is NOT endorsing or advocating underage sex or anything else illegal.

Helping Your Family Members With Parenting

Life isn't neat and tidy. 

Even though there has been much pressure to force people into a heteromonogamous, single-race (but not consanguineous!) marriages and parenting in "nuclear family" homes, the majority of families don't stay with that construct indefinitely. 

Some parents don't marry, some divorce, some are widowed, some remarry, sometimes three or four generations are in the home, sometimes sons or daughters don't leave home until well into adulthood, if at all, sometimes they leave and come back, sometimes aunts and uncles live in the home, sometimes it's a home of a polycule, sometimes it's a couple of gay men, sometimes a couple of lesbian women, and on and on and on. There are adoptive homes, foster homes, homes with renters, homes with friends who live there, a bunch of roommates, on and on the variations go.

The point of this is that there may be someone in your family who could use some help raising their children, for so many different reasons, and it may be helpful if you lived together.

Especially if there is no other parent involved, it could be helpful if you could be designated as another parent to the child or children. Things that might help can include:

1) Being listed as another parent on any official paperwork.
2) Officially adopting the child or children.
3) Being married to the other parent.

There are sociologists who insist that it is best for a child to have parents married to each other, living in the same home. If that is true, isn't that another reason we should have full marriage equality? If a woman finds raising her children with her sister, mother, father, or brother, or a man finds raising his children with those family members to be the best option, why should they be denied their right to marry, if that's what they want? A single mother, for example should be free to marry her sister or brother, and that other sibling should be able to adopt the children, if that's what is wanted. This should be the case whether the siblings have a sexual or romantic relationship or not.

Wouldn't that be what's best for the children, if the adults want that?

This is another example of why the denial of full marriage equality needs to end. We need full marriage equality now.

Statistically, a relationship between two siblings on good terms will have more stability than with potential stepparents from outside the family.

Are you helping to raise your nephews or nieces or grandchildren? Might it be helpful if you were allowed to marry their parent?

Falsely Invoking Science to Justify Bigotry

The "genetics argument" against consanguineous sex and marriage is usually a smokescreen that misuses science to justify bigotry.  There are some people sincerely concerned about children born to consanguineous parents (many of whom would have their concerns eased with a little education on the matter) but most of the people who use the "What about the children?" argument are simply trying to excuse their prejudice, because it sounds better than "I don't like the idea of it."

Ask someone who invokes Discredited Argument #18 if they drop opposition when it comes to a relationship that will not create biological children, such as two cisgender brothers, or a sister with a brother who has had a vasectomy, or siblings over the age of 60. Most will be stumped or will say no, they still oppose such relationships, perhaps citing another Discredited Argument, probably #1 or 3.

Another way of exposing this as a smokescreen is to ask them if they support the same restrictions on an unrelated heterosexual couple in which the woman is 40 years of age.

The fact is, we don't prevent people with known, serious genetic diseases, or who have lived all of their lives in the same neighborhood with pollutants known to cause birth defects, or who have taken medications known to cause birth defects from dating, having sex, marrying, having children, etc., so why deny rights to consanguineous lovers who are more likely to have healthy children together or won't be having children at all?

Everyone knows happy, healthy, intelligent, adorable children born to close relatives, whether they know it or not, and whether the children themselves know of their true biological ancestry or not. I can point to such people whose parents were close relatives. Should they have not been born?

Most children born to consanguineous parents are healthy. That's a fact. We don't hear about that much. Instead, "horror" stories are sensationalized... where a tyrannical patriarch or set of people isolated their family and abused children, engaging in deliberate inbreeding over generations. The problems resulting are often caused by the lack of prenatal care, lack of medical treatment, poor nutrition, physical abuse, substance abuse, poor hygiene, a polluted environment, etc. That's as far removed from what this blog is about (loving relationships between consenting adults) as possible. Cases like that do not justify denying consanguinamorous adults their right to be together in whatever way they want.

Bigotry and restrictions against consanguineous lovers predate a good understanding of genetics. It is just that people now misapply facts about genetics to cover for their dislike of the idea of consanguinamory.

A New Life With True Love

We have another exclusive interview to bring you. 

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. Most can’t even be out of the closet or they’ll face persecution and prosecution under absurd incest laws, which, instead of focusing on abuse, also target consensual relationships.

The man interviewed below should be free to legally and publicly marry his lover, or simply be with her without having to hide, yet they can’t. Prejudice can be deadly. They are consenting adults; why should they have been denied their rights? In much of the world, they could be criminally prosecuted for loving each other this way, and might be persecuted severely in addition.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what he has to say about the love they share. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic, but whatever your reaction, should lovers like these be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

Also please note that someone you love, respect, and admire could be in a similar relationship right now. Should they be attacked and denied rights because of the "incest" label? 

*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY:  Describe yourself.

Vishal: We were born in India. My name is Vishal, I'm a 26 year-old man, and my sister’s name is Samaira, she's a 25 year-old woman.

We both are in IT industry in Germany. We chose it because it is a high paying industry. Our high salaries enables us to live a comfortable life here. Right now we are able to save little over half of our salaries, which we invest, because we pool our resources. If everything goes well, then I can get a promotion soon, so our future looks good in Germany.

There is a whole tale behind how we ended up being in IT industry in Germany. We grew up in a well-off family in India. We have also an older brother there. We have a shared hobby of playing tennis. But I also like to go to CrossFit and she likes to play video games. We also like to read non-Fiction books. But due to time constraints nowadays we can only read one book in four to five months.

Should Consanguinamorous Lovers Tell the Children?

Some consanguinamorous lovers raise children, whether those children are the genetic offspring of both of them or not.

At the suggestion of someone I was discussing this with, I'm asking YOU, dear readers, for your opinions.

Do you think consang lovers who are raising children should tell the children of their relation?

For example, an adult and their parent or adult sibling, uncle, or aunt are living like spouses or at least partners/lovers. The children will know they sleep together, are romantically affectionate, etc., even that they have children together (maybe them!) Because this family is living where people don't know of their genetic relation and assume the home consists of a "regular" couple with kids, there is little chance the children will find out of the genetic relation, at least while they are young. Should the children know that the people they know as their parents or parent/stepparent are close genetic relatives?

What do you suggest? Should the children be told? If so, when and how?

I have my own opinions, but I will post those at a later time.

You can comment below, including anonymously. You can also email your opinions to fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com

Anyone who wants to explain their opinion is welcome, but if you have been involved in a situation like this or personally know of a similar situation, or are educated in child development, please mention that in your comment.

A Growing Family Denied Their Rights

We have another exclusive interview to bring you. 

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. Most can’t even be out of the closet or they’ll face persecution and prosecution under absurd incest laws, which, instead of focusing on abuse, also target consensual relationships.

The lover interviewed below should be free to legally and publicly marry his spouse, or simply be together without having to hide, yet they can’t. Prejudice can be deadly. They are consenting adults; why should they have been denied their rights? In much of the world, including where they live, they could be criminally prosecuted for loving each other this way, and might be persecuted severely in addition.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what he has to say about the love they share. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic, but whatever your reaction, should lovers like these be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

Also please note that someone you love, respect, and admire could be in a similar relationship right now. Should they be attacked and denied rights because of the "incest" label? 

NOTE: This interview has a brief amount of sexually explicit description. Separately, there is also mention of a sexual assault.

*****


FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourself.

Adam: My name is Adam, 25, and I am a Software Engineer. My mother's name is Bethany, 39, and she is also a Software Engineer. I was not conceived under pleasant circumstances. When my mother was 13, she was raped. My grandparents refused to let her get an abortion as they were religious nuts. Nine months later, I was born.

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #12

“What about child custody and child support?” This is an especially flimsy objection to polyamorous (or polygamous) relationships. As we have noted before, adult relationships don't always involve raising children. Even so, nonmonogamous relationships between adults who are parents have always existed, and in most places, it isn't criminal to be nonmonogamous. So this issue is already being handled. Notice we could ask the same question about children from one night stands, donated sperm, surrogate mothers, affairs, brief flings, or supposedly monogamous relationships and marriages that end. What about children born to a woman whose husband wasn’t the man who impregnated her? All of these situations are entirely legal. A mediator, arbitrator, or court decides custody and child support disputes that aren’t resolved amicably. That would still be the case if polyamorous relationships had legal protections, including marriage.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #11 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #13

One Perspective of Having Polyamorous Parents

A headline at refinery29.com caught my eye. Dylan Blair Bass had "My Parents Were Sex-Positive & Polyamorous Before It Was Cool."

I was in third grade when I first heard my parents having sex. We’d just moved, and my room was on the other side of the small house. I had trouble sleeping, so sometimes I’d lay down in the living room on our tiny couch at night, eventually nodding off only to be awoken a short while later by animalistic sounds coming from my parents’ bedroom. I don’t know how I knew what the sounds were, but my reaction was one of disgust, fascination, and a little bit of shame.

Sex is natural and there is no reason for parents to hide that they have sex. They should make it clear that affection, meaning consensual touch and interaction, is nothing for anyone to be ashamed of. Parents should also show their children how they can safely avoid having to hear noises they don't want to continue to hear.

For Consanguinamorists Considering Parenting

I was asked anonymously on Tumblr about the health of children from consanguineous parents, why there is a taboo about this, and what advice I have for a mother and son having a baby.  My answers mostly apply to any consanguinamorous parents.

Good Medicine and a Loving Family

We have another exclusive interview to bring you. 

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. Most can’t even be out of the closet or they’ll face prosecution under absurd incest laws, which, instead of focusing on abuse, also target consensual relationships.

The man interviewed below should be free to legally marry his lover and the mother of his son, or simply to be together as a couple without having to hide, yet they can’t. Prejudice can be deadly. They are consenting adults who aren’t hurting anyone; why should they have been denied their rights? In much of the world, they could be criminally prosecuted for their love, and might be persecuted severely in addition.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what this man has to say about the love he shares with his partner. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic and romantic, but whatever your reaction, should lovers like these be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

Also please note that someone you love, respect, and admire could be in a similar relationship right now. Should they be attacked and denied rights because of the "incest" label?

***Mild descriptions of sexuality are included in this interview.***


*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourselves.

Derek: We currently reside in the southern USA. I was born and grew up in a rural area. A hard work ethic was instilled in me early in life doing family farming and gardening. I joined the Army after graduation from high school and served eight years six months and one day. I attended college and worked successfully as a healthcare executive many years.

I was the youngest child; my two siblings are older than me by eight and ten years. 

My ex-wife left when my daughter was four, and we never heard from her again. I was an only parent. I raised my daughter alone with no help.

Today, I am a disabled veteran and only work as a domestic engineer. I enjoy gardening, spending time with my dogs, chickens, ducks, and my daughter-wife and son-grandson; we live together.

We are both above-average looking, non-smokers, watch our diets, exercise as often as we can, and are extremely hygiene-oriented. I am American Indian and she is mostly Caucasian. 

We are both highly educated, and she is a medical practitioner. We are in the top twenty-five percent economically of people in our geographical area. 

A Woman Denied Her Right to Marry the Father of Her Children

We have another exclusive interview to bring you. As this interview is being published, there are many people still spending more time home with family members. Perhaps some of them will find this interview an inspiration? Or they can see this for some possibilities.

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. Most can’t even be out if the closet or they’ll gave prosecution under absurd incest laws, which, instead of focusing on abuse, also target consensual relationships.

The woman interviewed below should be free to legally marry her husband and father of her children, or simply to be together as a couple without having to hide, yet they can’t. Prejudice can be deadly. They are consenting adults who aren’t hurting anyone; why should they have been denied their rights? In much of the world, they could be criminally prosecuted for their love, and might be persecuted severely in addition.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what this woman has to say about the love she shares with her spouse. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic and romantic, but whatever your reaction, should lovers like these be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

Also please note that someone you love, respect, and admire could be in a similar relationship right now. Should they be attacked and denied rights because of the "incest" label?

*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourselves.

Malory: My name is Malory and I am 27, my brother Jimmy is 26. We live in New Jersey, which, for the moment, has no laws prohibiting consensual incest. I am a educator and he is a construction worker. 

FME: Are you married or have you ever been legally and/or ceremonially married?

We are not legally married but there was a ceremony. Our parents and brother were there and our sister in spirit. Also there were two friends I had growing up that knew of our relationship. They attended but didn’t bring anyone. Our brother was the best man. One friend officiated and the other was my matron of honor. It was beautiful and took place in our favorite spot at the beach.


FME: How would you describe your gender(s)? How would you describe your sexual orientation and your relationship orientation?

If She Wasn't Serious, She Wouldn't Have Revealed Her Feelings

There are better places than Reddit to have a serious discussion about consanguinamory, but I thought this recent post by someone with the screen name DaughterNeeds was an interesting one. [Please note this blog entry has been bumped up from a previous posting.] This person claims to be an involved/experienced daughter, and titled the post "Respect your daughter choice and say yes"...

Actually, the only time I felt unwanted or unloved or hurt or betrayed was when my father originally told me no. He was worried that he had somehow done something wrong or that somehow I was confused.

To the fathers who are out there let me assure you of something: If your daughter comes to you can rest assured that she is sure and yes she means it! We are socially programmed from birth to believe such feelings or thoughts are immoral and unethical. If your daughter comes to you longing for you, she has had more than enough time to think, rethink, and think some more. She has likely struggled to come to terms with how she feels and she has likely contemplated a million reasons on why she should squash her feelings and most certainly has she has tried. Unknowing to you she has most certainly tried her whole life to force herself to feel for someone else as strongly and as instinctively she feels for you.

She makes a good point. Unless the situation is a recent reunion/introduction, or she's literally insane to the point she has no idea what she's doing, a daughter making a clear pass at her father (or mother) must have thought about it a lot already. It might seem sudden to the parent, but it isn't to the daughter who is opening her heart and being extremely vulnerable.

Living Consanguinamorously - What To Tell The Children

A question many people in consanguinamorous relationships have is if, what, when, and how to tell their children about their relationship.

There is no one right answer because it depends on many different factors.

It will be great when we get to a point where it doesn’t even have to be a question, but since most consanguineous lovers are still living in places where such relationships face severe discrimination, often including imprisonment, it is a question some people have.

Most people in consanguinamorous relationships have children, whether they have those children together or by some other relationship or through adoption or third party reproduction, because most people in general have children, so this is an issue faced by many people.

Let’s consider some of the factors involved.

Consanguinamory and Reproduction

One of the most common reasons given to object to the right to consanguineous relationships is what I call the "mutant baby" argument. Even some people who support the right to consanguinamory and have even engaged in consanguineous sex themselves join with bigots in being strongly against close relatives having children together because of prejudiced backlash or the increased risk of birth defects.

In regards to the prejudiced backlash, the answer is not to let bigots have their way. It is for bigots to lose their power to bully, prosecute, and break up homes. Don't want children of consanguineous parents to have a hard time? Do not give them a hard time.

In regards to the increased risk of birth defects, scientific understanding is often lacking.

Most sexual encounters do not result in a birth. Many people who have relationships or marry never have genetic children together; some people in consanguinamorous relationships choose not to. So, we must recognize the differences between sex, marriage, parenting, and reproduction, and not ban the first three because of concerns about the last one.

But let's deal with that last one.

Most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant birth defects or other genetic problems; while births to other parents do sometimes have birth defects. There are happy, healthy, bright, attractive people born to close relatives who are productive members of society. We all know some, whether we know it or not, and whether they know it or not. It is that common. (Sometimes, they were conceived by an abuser, but often, not by an abuser but by mutual lovers.) We don’t prevent other people from marrying or deny them their reproductive rights based on increased odds of passing along a genetic problem or inherited disease. For example, it is entirely legal in the US and most other places for someone with Huntington's Disease to date, have sex, marry, and have genetic children. How can such rights be denied to people who are genetically healthy, simply because they are close relatives?

It is true that in general, children born to consanguineous parents have an increased chance of genetic problems than those born to nonconsanguineous parents, but the odds are still minimal. (UPDATE: Please see this wonky elaboration written by a Friend of FME.) There are US states and there are countries where consanguinamory is not illegal or at least it isn't prosecuted. Sweden will legally marry half-siblings in some circumstances. A comparison of the rate of genetic problems in these places to places that criminalize and actively prosecute consanguinamory reveals no discernible increase in genetic problems in the places that embrace this relationship right.

If a natural talent or gift runs in the family, the children born to consanguineous parents will be more likely to inherit and manifest that beneficial result as well; a birth benefit. But there are increased odds of problem with births to older parents, too. There's no stigma assigned to that, and it isn't illegal for older people to date, have sex, marry, and have genetic children together.

Anyone concerned about these things should have genetic testing and counseling. People who are not close relatives can pass along health problems, too.

The "birth defects" argument also implies that people with disabilities or some other birth defect are living lives so terrible that they should never have been born at all. Yet, there are many such people who are leading happy, fulfilling, productive lives.

But a current problem, in some (not all) cases, is that in giving birth, consanguineous parents will be outing themselves to someone who is prejudiced, and there will now be evidence of their (in some places) illegal love that can be used against them.

There are consanguinamorous parents happily raising their healthy children together. But some consanguinamorous relationships face very real threats. Again, the answer is to stop the persecution and prosecution. There is no good reason to deny consenting adults their equal protection of having their relationship and reproductive rights.

Consanguinamorous or not, anyone engaging in heterosexual intercourse should be aware of the possibility of pregnancy, the various forms of birth control and other options available, and the realities if pregnancy, birth, and raising children.

UPDATE: Jane has a great essay on these topics here.

With all of that in mind, let's look at this thread on a consensual incest discussion board. (The discussion is explicit, so if you have a problem with that, you are warned.)

carebear82 wrote…

Another Perspective on a Polyamorous Consanguinamorous Life

Facts:

1. There are people everywhere who have consanguineous sex, and there always have been.
2. There are polyamorous people everywhere, and always have been.
3. There are people everywhere who swing or have group sex, and there always have been.

Sometimes, people are in two or all three of these categories, and those who are might find each other.

We are bringing you another exclusive interview.. As this interview is being published, there are many people still spending more time home with family members. Perhaps some of them will find this interview an inspiration? Or they can see this for some possibilities.

People in consanguinamorous and polyamorous relationships are everywhere, though many polyamorists are closeted and consanguinamorists are even more likely to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. Most can’t even be out of the closet or they’ll face prosecution under absurd incest laws, which, instead of focusing on abuse, also target consensual relationships.

The woman interviewed below should be free to legally marry all her spouses, or simply to be together with her lovers without having to hide, yet they can’t. They are consenting adults who aren’t hurting anyone; why should they have been denied their rights? In much of the world, they could be criminally prosecuted for their love, and might be persecuted severely in addition.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what this woman has to say about the bonds she shares. You may think her relationships are interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic and romantic, but whatever your reaction, should lovers like these be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

Also please note that someone you love, respect, and admire could be in similar relationships right now. Should they be attacked and denied rights because of the "incest" label?

You might want to read this interview first, or wait and read it at the end (I'll link to again below) as they are connected.

**WARNING: Mildly explicit descriptions of adolescent exploration and adult sex.**

*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourself.

Neely: I'm Neely, I am 24 years old, from an upper-middle class family, I currently live in West Virginia. I have an older sister, Marie, and a younger sister, Amy, and one older brother, John. I currently have one daughter by my brother.