Another Ally For the Polygamous Freedom to Marry

I asked if Brazil will lead the way to full marriage equality. Responding to the same story, Jean Hannah Edelstein asked at guardian.co.uk, "Why shouldn't three people get married?"

Photograph: Stone/Getty Images

And yet as we shoehorn ourselves into two-by-two formation, we're not that good at keeping our promises: as Helen Croydon has pointed out, breaking the boundaries of monogamy is far from unusual. Plenty of marriages have three people in them. They're just not legal ones.

I know a beautiful triad, or thruple. They want to get married under the law, and they have a marriage better than anything else I've seen. Why are they denied?

The government can dictate that two people should be in a marriage, but it can't legislate what will make them feel happy or stable or emotionally complete together. And if we accept that, as we do every time we allow anyone the freedom to make a decision about who they'll marry, and furthermore allow them the freedom to call each other by execrable pet names in public, then does it not begin to seem strange, just a bit, that we do allow the government to dictate how many people are allowed to pledge to be together forever?

It is not just strange, it is cruel. Some people couldn't be monogamous if their life depended on it. If three or more people have formed a spousal relationship or multiple spousal relationships in a construct that works for them, why deny them their right to marry?

Is it possible that if we allowed more people to marry simultaneously that more marriages might be successful?

Yes!

Here's a very important point...

Legalisation wouldn't send stampedes of people to the registry office in five-aside squads; for many of us, monogamy does feel the most comfortable option, whether it's because our brains aren't wired to love more than one person or because the prospect of making multiple people happy is too complex. But three's not a crowd for everyone. And as long as everyone is entering a marriage equally, as long as everyone is really going to make an effort to be open and honest to everyone else, it's probably not the government's job to tell them how many of them there should be.

Thank you! Thank you!!! It is great that more and more people are seeing that both the same-gender freedom to marry and the polygamous freedom to marry are good things. These rights should not be denied. This is why we will have full marriage equality.

Nobody Could Defend the Denial of Polygamous Freedom to Marry

I asked this question at Yahoo Answers....

Is there any good reason to still deny the polygamous freedom to marry?

To pre-empt the usual Discredited Arguments, I gave a long explanation...

By polygamy, I'm not just talking about polygyny (one man, multiple women) but any form of polygamy, including polyandry (one woman, multiple men), three or more men, three or more women, or multiple women and multiple men. If they are all CONSENTING ADULTS I just don't see why the fundamental right to marry is denied to people who want more than two people involved.

Please do not cite problems for women and children in communities where polygyny is the only form of polygamy allowed, being gay or lesbian is shunned and/or illegal and women would be denied equal rights with or without polygamy.

Please do not cite anything that also applies to (professed) monogamy.

Criminal Sentences For Consensual Sex in New Zealand

As New Zealand moves towards the limited same-gender freedom to marry, it is still criminally sentencing some adults for consensual sex. Updating this possible Genetic Sexual Attraction case I blogged about months ago, this report comes from BNO news…

A father and daughter in New Zealand who say they are in love with each other have been told by a judge to end their incestuous relationship, warning that future incest could land them in prison, a local newspaper reported on Wednesday.

How ridiculous for a judge to tell adults in love with each other that they can’t even love each other the way they want.

Reunited and It Feels So Good

Every once in a while, I find a question asked at Yahoo Answers that appears to be referring to Genetic Sexual Attraction, such as this one by kinkajuu, asked in the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgendered area...

Whats wrong with incest?
i am a 23 yr old man, and i love my twin brother
the only reason incest is considered wrong, is genetic mutations from brother and sisters reproducing

It's not the only reason people give, but it is one of the most common Discredited Arguments.

since we are gay, and love eachother, we cannot have children. so the only problem is gone.
so why is it viewed as wrong!?

we were seperated at birth, when we were 23, 6 months ago, we met and fell in love with eachother
we live in a state where gay marriage is legal.

Later, he added...

he and i were seperated at birth, for 23 years
our mother and father were killed in a car accident, we somehow were seperated though.
we met when my brother was in jail for a few days, a cop saw me and arrested me too, thinking i was him and had broken out.

Quite a story. If it is true, it could very well be a case of Genetic Sexual Attraction.


While it is great that their state has the limited same-gender freedom to marry, it is limited. The state would not recognize their marriage (and might even prosecute them for having sex with each other) if the authorities knew their genetic relationship, which is usually quite obvious if they are identical twins.

Among the answers was this one from Some guy...

I obviously never met you before so I don't actually think this but, my immediate thought is this : if you're attracted to someone who either closely or exactly resembles you, doesn't that imply a form of self admiration on an unusual level?

Studies have shown that most people are attracted to people who look like them.

blobby...

I think that you have mistaken this love you have for your brother as love between partners. because you have not seen eachother in a very long time, you feel and instant connection when you finnaly meet. to be completley honest i do not think you love him in the way you think you do, esppecially if you have no other siblings to compare the different feelings of love to.

It is too bad there isn't more understanding of the reality of Genetic Sexual Attraction.

There is nothing wrong with consenting adults sharing love, sex, residence, or marriage. None of the answers I saw effectively explained why this man or anyone else in that position should be denied their rights. Some where somewhat supportive, thankfully.

Polygynists, Obama, and Romney

I've mentioned before the polygyny in the heritage of both President Obama and his Republican challenger, Mitt Romney. Thanks to Jesse Walker at reason.com for calling my attention to McKay Coppins' article at buzzfeed.com, "Polygamists See Themselves in Romney, Obama Family Trees."

Anne Wilde still clearly remembers the moment she watched Mitt Romney throw his heritage under the bus.

A practicing polygamist and leading advocate for "plural marriage" rights, Wilde had watched Romney's political rise over the years with an unusual sense of personal investment. She knew his agenda wouldn’t include the polygamist equality that she’d spent years fighting for as co-founder of the advocacy group Principle Voices. She knew he was just a politician trying to win an election.

And look how he's treated gays and lesbians who want to monogamously marry.

The State of Georgia Still Arresting Consenting Adults

According to Sarah Bakhtiari, reporting at norcross.patch.com...

Gwinnett County Police arrested an uncle and nephew on incest charges early Friday at a business in an unincorporated area between Norcross and Peachtree Corners.

Around 3 a.m. Aug. 17, a security guard called authorities to report that two people had entered a semi-trailer behind a business on the 6400 block of Atlantic Boulevard near Jimmy Carter Boulevard.

According to the police report, officers made demands for the people to exit the trailer, and they did so without incident. Police immediately arrested the two for loitering and prowling since they "had no reason to be at the closed business."

If they owned the trailer and were inside the trailer what was the problem, really?

Police noted that at first, the two people appeared to be a woman in her early 20s and a middle-aged man. After further investigation and questioning, it turned out the woman was actually a 21-year-old male from Gainesville. He had been taking hormones since he was 19 that caused him to grow breasts and develop feminine features.

So the younger person is a transgender female. If she identifies as such, the police and journalists should refer to her as female, not in male terms.

The two also told police that they were uncle and nephew, and they had been involved sexually for about two years. The nephew told their family that he was gay, said the uncle, who's a 37-year-old Snellville resident. When his nephew started gaining female features, the uncle asked him about becoming sexually involved together.

Why is this relevant to the police? They are consenting adults.

Police asked if they performed any sexual acts in the trailer, and the uncle said they only cuddled and kissed. The nephew, however, told the officer that he performed oral sex, but it was consensual and not forced.

Note: It is OK to lie to counter unjust laws.

The two were arrested on charges of incest and loitering and prowling. They were admitted into the Gwinnett County jail and remained there as of early Tuesday morning, according to the Gwinnett Docket Book.

Why is incest a crime in this instance? They are consenting adults. The article didn't make it clear if they are biologically related or related by marriage, but it doesn't matter. "Loitering" is really a charge used to punish people for having sex or looking for sex in publicly shared places (like public restrooms) often because of prejudice against their sexuality makes it risky to be seen together at home, but they went inside the trailer. "Prowling" is a charge meant to be applied to burglars. They didn't steal anything. This looks like it just harassment of consenting adults for no good reason. If they actually didn't own the trailer, there should be nothing more than a trespassing charge.

There were comments, of course...

Diana... 

Call me a prude but ewwwww.

Don't do it if you don't want to. Problem solved!

SB...

I am just stunned and shocked ...this is going to be devestating to that family...So happy they are busted...he's probably been molesting him since he was a small boy...so so sad

Doesn't sound like a pedophile situation, but of course if someone isn't like SB, they must be a pedophile, right?

Encouragement From a Friend

I was very pleased that our friend Liz left a couple of comments yesterday. I had lost contact with her for a while and I was a bit worried. She and her brother have a beautiful consanguinamorous relationship that has included a beautiful child. Liz and Ryan are an inspiration. She wrote:

People will come up will all kinds of reasons to explain why consanguineous relationships are wrong or immoral. I just hope that those attitudes change one day. I am in love with my brother, and I feel no shame in that. We have a healthy daughter together. I made sure to see my doctor regularly to make sure the baby was developing normally. As someone mentioned here, there are ways to make sure that genetic risks are managed.

I do wish that I could tell everyone that he is my brother and how great things have been and how happy we are being parents, but I can't. I know what will happen, so I do what I can like making posts here where there are supportive people. This kind of relationship does have it's challenges, but I wouldn't give it up for anything. To anyone in a similar relationship I would say this: Don't let fear and misinformation make your decisions for you.

It's sad that some people feel they cannot be with the one they truly love just because that person is a relative. I understand how that one woman feels - my heart belongs to my brother and it always will. We have our disagreements and arguments like any couple, but the love is strong and I can't imagine being with anyone else. It's not an easy decision to make, and it's not always easy to live this life, but don't let that discourage you - the rewards are worth it.

Thanks, Liz! Don't be a stranger.

Another Very Active Woman

Per request, this interview is no longer available. We apologize for any inconvenience.

Please read other interviews here.

A Very Active Woman

Most of the interviews I have posted have been with people who have been in love and have wanted to marry or have it as a real option or the future, but have been prevented due to a lack of marriage equality. This blog also supports other relationship rights for adults, regardless of race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation, who should not only be free to marry other consenting adults, but free to share love, sex, and residence whether or not they marry. I met “Chrissy” through Yahoo Answers and she was generous enough with her time to do this interview. She’s unapologetically robust in her sex life and does not shy away from talking explicitly about it.

A Woman Speaks Up Against Discrimination and Misinformation

Broadcast and print journalism often gets a topic as special as Genetic Sexual Attraction wrong. Sometimes, articles on Genetic Sexual attraction will condemn relationships between consenting adults and say they are all doomed. It is just not so. Some are healthy, happy, loving, and lasting, and their biggest problem is the prejudice of others; discrimination, often codified in law. Current issues of Take a Break and That's Life have articles on Genetic Sexual Attraction. For reliable information with a better perspective, see the Genetic Sexual Attraction page of this blog.

In response the articles in Take a Break and That's Life, a young woman asked me to publish this. She wishes to remain Anonymous because of the bigotry and prejudice expressed in the laws where she live, but I can assure you she is a real woman, healthy, gainfully employed, bright, attractive, and that she is being honest.

I met my half brother some many years after I was cruelly taken away from him when I was a little baby. After reconnecting with him we spent time together obviously making up for lost time, and at concert we both attended I realised then that this man had a magnetic pull, I wanted to be in his arms, I wanted to feel him against me, just like a normal chemistry pull between a woman and man (or same sex.)

I didn't really bat an eyelid that these thoughts were about my brother. To me, that was just a word; ultimately he was a stranger I was getting to know. I kept my feelings to myself afraid of what he may think. Would I lose my brother and destroy everything we had built up? Or could I chance telling him and pray for the best?

I didn't have to wait too long. A couple of months later, after many a vivid dream about the connection I felt, I noticed something more and more... I'd seen it a few times previously, the way he looked at me, not in a vulgar manner but an adoring one. Every hug felt more powerful. I could feel this connection stronger and stronger each time from him and within me!

One night I had sat down whilst my brother was in. I was messing about with YouTube and played a song that had caught my attention. If I remember correctly was a meatloaf song, oldie but sure, it was called 'love you out loud'. Wish I could love you out loud. Well, he came into me & looked at me, he said nothing at that moment. He spoke to me after when we were alone together and said he knew how I was feeling because he felt the same & had felt the way I had. At that moment he leaned in and kissed me, a kiss I will never forget. It felt perfect, like I'd finally connected with my soulmate, my twin flame or the one. It didn't take us long to cross the line society puts in place because it felt right and feels right to us! When we did it was the most sensual caring love making you could imagine.

I know many people, government and society think this is immoral, wrong & disgusting but in reality we are not the criminals that prey on young people or harm people. We are normal, like everyone else! Others are not willing to even try to understand we are adults that met up and fell in love, many of us in this situation don't automatically feel this kinship that maybe relatives who have grown up together with feel. I've been with my hb for 2 years & yes we have had our ups and downs, stress and strain from not being allowed to be normal 100% of the time because 'people' think its wrong! It's not; there are no 6-toed babies, with 2 heads! I've heard and read about others with happy, healthy babies that are able to stay together for years! There's maybe a slightly higher chance of birth deformities in GSA coupled dependent on many factors, DNA makeup, genes, how closely related, bloodline. But society doesn't prevent everyday couples being together having a family because they may have an underlying condition or illness, so why should any GSA couple be prevented? Why shouldn't we be allowed to be together with someone we love? What gives people the right to judge couples like us when they don't understand and won't try to? We are not monsters or criminals we didn't harm anyone but yet the penalty if caught can be higher than rape of a minor.

I love my brother more than I ever imagined possible to love another. He is the man my heart and soul chose to love perfectly! I adore him in many many ways. People can think I'm sick, but to me I'm loving someone just like them. I'm not harming anyone and nor are any other people in our situation.


Shouldn't they be free to be together? Isn't it ridiculous to punish them for loving each other? Shouldn't they have the right to love each other the way they want? Someone experiencing GSA needs to know they are not alone, they are not abnormal, and that there is nothing wrong with them. If the feelings are mutual and they are free to be together and want to be together, nobody should discourage them.

Coming Out Consanguinamorous

Bumping this previous entry up...

Imagine, for a moment, that after having had a love life that could be described as “typical,” and marrying in your mid or late twenties, your world was turned upside down when you found out, several years into your marriage, that your spouse was having an affair and was leaving you. Imagine the terrible feelings and the turmoil and having to get back on your feet. Someone who has always been a good friend to you, someone you can trust more than anyone else in the world, helps you through all of it. This person had already been through something similar, and becomes a great shoulder to cry on. You enjoy spending time together, you find comfort in that person’s arms, and you notice that you both want the same things out of life. You love this person. To your surprise, you discover that you’ve become physically attracted to this person. After having an especially great evening together, you end up making love. It is the best sex you’ve ever had. Nothing else comes close. As the months go by after that special evening, you fall deeper and deeper in love. This person is the love of your life. But there's a problem...

Consanguineous Childbearing and Genes

Some bigots try to justify their prejudice against consanguineous sex and marriage by saying that such relationships inevitably lead to genetic problems. This argument can be refuted on several fronts.

1. Some consanguineous relationships involve only people of the same gender.

2. Not all mixed-gender relationships birth biological children.

3. Most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant genetic problems.

Secondly: there is no statistically significant difference in abortion or stillbirth, in the sample resulting from consanguineous marriages, compared to the sample resulting from marriages between non-relatives.

Thirdly: There is a statistical difference between the age of the mother, in the sample resulting from consanguineous marriages and the one resulting from exogamous marriages, and this difference is considered by many scientists as the causative in chromosomal defects.

Fourthly: The researcher analyzed these results by several statistical methods, assuming that consanguineous marriage has an effect in chromosomal defect, but the results repudiated this assumption.

Something else to keep in mind…

But if consanguineous marriage was prohibited in the society or rare, then this prohibition will lead to the survival of many individuals carrying the disease-causing genes. Therefore, the chance for possible intermarriage of two non-relatives carrying the disease-causing genes for a particular disease will be considerable; hence, the emergence of this disease in these communities. The best example of this disease is Cystic Fibrosis of the Pancreas. This disease is governed by a recessive gene, common in Britain, despite the scarcity of consanguineous marriages. This is due to the presence of a high proportion of carriers of the disease-causing gene, as explained previously, which leads to increased chance of intermarriage between the carriers of this disease, and therefore its manifestation among their progeny.

Take a Break and That's Life on Genetic Sexual Attraction

UK-based publications That's Life and Take a Break have published stories about Genetic Sexual Attraction. If you want accurate, helpful information about Genetic Sexual Attraction, I strongly encourage you to visit http://www.gsaforums.com/ and read the material there and participate in the forums. Also, read what I've written here.

Brothers on Film

PLEASE NOTE THAT EXTERNAL LINKS MAY BE NSFW. Manuel Hung wrote at nextmagazine.com wrote about "brothers doing their own brothers" and "Gay porn’s longtime obsession with its (mostly) identical stars." He starts off with news about the Peters twins.

In May, Slovakia-based gay porn studio Bel Ami announced the retirement of two of its biggest and money-lucrative stars, identical twins Elijah and Milo Peters. Shortly after their 2009 Bel Ami debut, these blond, buff Czech brothers, who had appeared together in group-sex scenes getting busy separately, began having full-on sex with each other, first in Taboo (2010), their twincestuous debut, and most recently in the condom-free Doing It Together (2011).

I wonder what their off-screen relationship is like these days?

The article, with explicit language and puns (you are fairly warned), goes on to list many brothers and the videos in which they appeared together, including some amateurs who do have an off-screen consanguinamorous relationship.

Gay "twincest" and fraternal sex in general is obviously popular in gay erotica, but this should not be surprising because lesbian and heterosexual consanguineous sex are very popular in erotica and adult media. Why? Because a lot of people have fantasized about or considered being involved in such situations, even as an unrelated third person, and many people have been involved. There's a lack of portrayals of this in media in general, and so makers of adult entertainment have filled that opening... no pun intended.

Consanguineous Marriages in the US

Andrew Chow, JD, had a FindLaw.com article that I found at reuters.com about the patchwork of restrictions in the US when it comes to marrying cousins.

While some states allow these kinds of marriages, others do not. In general, laws about whether it's legal to marry your cousin fall into three categories:

States that allow cousin marriages. This is the situation in 19 states, including big ones like California, Florida, and New York, along with the District of Columbia, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

States that prohibit first-cousin marriages. Tying the knot with a first cousin is not allowed in 25 states, according to the NCSL.

States that allow first-cousin marriages under certain conditions. Five states allow first cousins to marry if the cousins are of a certain age (50, 55, or 65); four of those states also allow cousin marriages if one cousin is unable to reproduce. In Maine, first-cousin marriage is allowed if the couple receives genetic counseling by a physician.

But there are even more nuances to state laws. Some bar first-cousin marriages, but may allow marriages between second cousins (i.e., the children of first cousins), half-cousins, and adopted cousins.

State criminal laws against incest may also effectively prohibit marriages between cousins. That's why it may be a good idea to consult an experienced local family lawyer for advice on whether it's legal to marry your cousin where you live.

Note that the US also still has a patchwork of restrictions on same-gender marriages. No state currently recognizes polygamous marriages.

What we need is nationwide full marriage equality. A woman should be free to marry another woman, even of that woman is her cousin, and even if she is already married, as long as all involved consent.

Wholistic Love and Unrequited Love Between Siblings

Meaningful discussion continues at Kindred Spirits forum, which, as far as I can tell, is the best place for people in consanguinamorous relationships (and those positively curious) to discuss their relationships with others.

I noticed a contrast in two different threads there, and that contrast is one of the reasons this blog exists.

One man wrote about his unrequited love...

More Coverage of Lovebirds Bobbi Kristina and Nick Gordon

As I have written before, I support Bobbi Kristina and Nick Gordon's right to be together. It doesn't matter that some people think their relationship is incestuous. A couple of days ago, Cassie Carpenter reported at dailymail.co.uk on the happy couple...

They lived like brother and sister for over a decade before Whitney Houston's tragic death.

But Bobbi Kristina Brown not only kissed and professed her love for brother-turned-partner Nick Gordon over Twitter last night, she also showed off a mysterious diamond sparkler on her left ring finger.

Good for her.

Bobbi was seen clutching Nick's thigh while they watched the Billboard Music Awards together back in May, and the teenager was seen wearing the same diamond sparkler that night.


The duo batted away rumours of an engagement shortly after and last month, according to Hollywood Life, they both decided it wasn't the right time to wed.


'Bobbi and Nick really love each other,' said the source.

'But they just can’t figure out how they want to define their relationship. Bobbi felt like she got swept up in the moment because she was going through a lot of emotions after Whitney’s death. But they’re in love and still together, just not engaged.'

If they love each other, good for them. May they be filled with happiness.

Don't want to be with someone who your mother treated like family? Then don't. But let other adults have their relationship, without slurs.

Nova Scotia Still Prosecuting Consenting Adults For Lovemaking

Oh, Canada. Believe it or not, a man will be doing federal time for having sex with a consenting adult woman. Kirk Starratt reports at novanewsnow.com…

The 49-year-old New Minas man, who can’t be identified because a publication ban protecting the identity of the victim, was sentenced July 30 in Kentville Supreme Court to 30 months in custody.

Two and a half years in custody? Is he some sort of danger to anyone? Let’s see…

We Are All Cousins

During election years in the US, there is almost always a news story about the candidates being distant cousins. The reality is, we're pretty much all distant cousins if we're not close cousins or immediate family members.

All headlines are supposed to get attention.  Some do it by misleading. Gather.com announced "Kevin Bacon and Kyra Sedgwick are Kissing Cousins, But That's Okay." Well of course it is okay. They are consenting adults. It would be okay if they were siblings. Elan Kesilman reports...

Kevin Bacon and wife Kyra Sedgwick have recently discovered they are related, thanks to PBS's Finding Your Roots. Bacon, however, isn't too concerned about the revelation, poking fun at their joint genealogy on Twitter: "Date night last night with @kyrasedgwick #KissingCousins."

Finding Your Roots' host Henry Louis Gates, Jr. said the acting pair "are indeed distant cousins. So talk about six degrees of separation, right?" They are 10th cousins, once removed, in fact. It's really no big deal, and the couple's two children don't seem to have suffered any consequences from an incestuous birth. 

Of course the children didn't suffer. Most children born to sibling and parent-child parents are healthy, so such distant relations are not going to present a problem unless both of the actors carried a serious genetic disease.

Many people who are married or in relationships or have children together are much more closely related than these two, especially people who were born in the same country.

Desk Clearing: Remember GSA on Dr. Drew?

Remember when the women who've taken over the URL that used to be the place to go to discuss Genetic Sexual Attraction went on the Dr. Drew TV show and got lots and lots of attention? A while back I saw a blog entry discussing it that kind of missed the whole point and focused on Julie's husband. Then the ensuing discussion, full of ignorance, got racist and also trashed Julie's genetic father.

OneSTDV wrote "Greatest Beta Ever? Incest and Cuckoldry"...

Dr. Drew (no, it's not him) had a program last night about "genetic sexual attraction", which is probably exactly what you're thinking - estranged fathers having sex with their daughters upon reuniting as an adult.

The blogger was ignorant. Genetic Sexual Attraction is a phenomenon that may or may not lead to sexual contact, and it is experienced by up to half of all people involved in a reunion/introduction of post-pubescent genetic relatives. The attraction may or may not be mutual. It happens between siblings, between mothers and sons/daugthers, fathers and sons/daughters, etc. depending on sexual orientation.

In case you didn't know, dear reader, "Beta" is a term, often used derisively, of man who are "alpha males." "Cuckoldry" refers to raising another male's genetic offspring, perhaps unwittingly... for example, a woman married to a man has an affair and gets pregnant as a result, and her husband raises the child. In some cases, it isn't a cheating affair but actually something a husband wants his wife to do. But I digress...

The blonde in the linked video clip recounts her story, which goes like this:

Less than a year ago, she reunited with her biological father.  Eventually, their relationship turned sexual.  At the time, she had been married for ten years.  After having an affair with her own biological father, she is still married to the same man.  She is now advertising her incestuous affair, which recall happened within the past year, to a national audience.  Not only did he stay with her, the husband even called into the program to discuss reacting to his wife getting boned by her father.  

I rest my case - there is no "beta" that can top that.

I Get Messages Through Yahoo Answers

I feel sorry for people with closed minds. Since I won't be sharing this person's name or anything that identifies her, I will go ahead and use the messages she sent to me to share an example of how prejudice against consanguinamory is not rational.

I had responded to a question on Yahoo! Answers about the typical “slippery slope” argument that the same-gender freedom to marry will lead to people marrying wild animals and toasters. I wrote “An adult person should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with ANY consenting adult persons. This includes polyamorous people and people in consanguineous relationships. As soon as other animals or inanimate objects are legally considered consenting adult persons, they can participate, too.”

The second sentence was meant to point out the difference between people marrying each other and people marrying toaster ovens.

So Anonymous sent me some material from petabuse.com in one message, and then sent a second message implying I was comparing same-gender marriages to sex with nonhuman animals, which is the exact opposite of what I was doing.

I wrote back to clarify, to which she responded by selectively quoting me, and so I had to write back to clarify again, and I always stressed I was referring to consenting adults.

Then she sent this…

The I Word Used For Attention

Kate Erbland reports at filmschoolrejects.com that Jennifer Lawrence will be starring, according the article's headline, in a "True Tale of Incest, Oil and Even an Impoverished Cottage." Incest? Really?

Variety reports that Jennifer Lawrence has signed on for the role of Lydie Marland in screenwriter Chris Terrio‘s Ends of the Earth, a fact-based tale that will center on “the controversial love affair between an oil baron and his adopted daughter, which destroys the empire they built together.” However, the Marlands had one hell of a life, and while the particulars of their relationship weren’t necessarily the biggest part of it, it will likely make for some damn fine cinematic drama.

As it turns out, Lydie was adopted out as a teenager to her maternal aunt and uncle. When was in her 20s, her adoptive mother died, the adoption was annulled, and at age 28 she married the 54 year-old to whom she had no blood relation, but had been an uncle (by marriage) to her and an adoptive father. However, this was neither incest biologically nor legally. Some would consider it incest socially, but it wasn't like this man had raised her from birth. It appears to be an adoption for the sake of providing financially for teenagers.
 
So what we have here is the "i" word being used to get attention, and we all know that word raises thoughts in the minds of some of a drunken man assaulting his underage daughter; this is nothing like that. For others, the word brings up hidden love between cousins or siblings, and this was nothing hidden. People who make movies like this and write articles like this know that even though so many people say "Incest? Eeww!" many people are very interested.

The story does sound interesting, even though I think the use of the "i" word is stretching it.

Genetic Sexual Attraction at Yahoo Answers

I'm active at Yahoo Answers, where some of what amount to the same questions are asked over and over again, and so I'll give essentially the same answer to the same question. Every once in a while, someone will report my answer as offensive or violating the guidelines (though the answer doesn't). This is despite the fact that the very same answer will have been chosen as a "Best Answer" over and over again. Overall, though, I enjoy Yahoo Answers and I like advancing the cause of full marriage equality there, as well as overall relationship rights.

Sarah's question sounds a lot like a situation involving Genetic Sexual Attraction. Under "How do I get my brother back?" she wrote...

Marriage Equality Day

If it is still August 7 where you are, it is Marriage Equality Day.

Every day is one day closer to full marriage equality.

The Power of "Why?"

"But we've always done it that way."

Have you ever heard that? Perhaps you've hears it in a workplace if you came in as a new person or a consultant, with fresh eyes. "Why do you do it that way? Why not do it that way instead?"

"Because we've always done it that way" doesn't really answer the question, but it is easy to say when the original reason has been forgotten. Sometimes, things were done a certain way in the past because of the technology available, or the tastes of the management. Meanwhile, technology moved on and managers died or retired and were replaced.

I was thinking about this because of something written in a thread at the Kindred Spirits forum.

Talk about WOW! Thursday I dropped by my regular watering hole and this very topic came up! There is a "brother/sister" act has started coming in regularly and they seem 'extremely' close. They live together and Sissy is raising her grandson. It's been noticed that they dance more like a couple than "brother & sissy" when the DJ is there. Anyway... One regular clumsily brought up the subject, "Ya know it seams like XXXXX & XXXXXXXX are weirdly close. Ya think they might be....." The first reaction from a few was "YEW, that's gross!" A couple of other comments were "That's just sick" and "Only perverts would do that". To paraphrase,  person who wrote the entry asked "why" consanguinamory is wrong. When I asked, "Why?" no one could/would give me a definitive answer. Sheeple being led around by the nose by antiquated societal mores.  To advance relationship rights for all adults, to reach full marriage equality sooner rather than later so that people will not be discriminated against for being LGBT, or polyamorous, or consanguinamorous, or for their relationships with other consenting adults, we should ask, "Why?"

Still No Good Reason to Ban Consanguinamory

Sorgklaan adapted one of my Yahoo! Answers postings and started a lively discussion at minecraftforum.net. By the way, I WANT people using my stuff, so I am pleased with this, not ticked off. It would be nice to get credit, but the important thing is dispelling myths and bringing full marriage equality to reality sooner rather than later. He titled the thread, "Why incest should not be considered 'wrong.'". This is what he posted...

We Get Paranoid Letters

For some reason, this entry continues to be especially popular, and draws many comments from anti-equality folks. We just got one from a severe worrier who seems to hate just about everyone and thinks everything is about to implode or explode because people love each other…

First it was forbidden to have sex between same sex. Now for the sake of love and other social crap it is accepted in most of the places around the world. Don't worry..this GSA [Genetic Sexual Attraction] incest thing will soon get it's approval for the sake of love and stuff. Soon, our generation shall suffer from a confusion whom to call mom/dad..and whom to call grandparents...or brother/sister. Not so far away when Parents shall be starting to have sex (rape maybe?) with their kids without any fear of law because other mate is old and fat. It is not so far away when Dendrophilia, Necrophilia, Avisodomy, Vorarephilia, Hierophilia Beastiality and all other "LOVE" will also get it's approval and will be supported and cheered. You people will win. These all are meant to happen. No surprise. End is near people.

First you free slaves, and then the next thing you know they'll be wantin' to vote! The end is near! Yes, just as soon as that fuse burns out. Actually, I'd like to believe the ends is near... the end of discriminating against adults because of who they are and the people they love.

Oh, dear. I feel sorry for the person who wrote that comment.

Gay, lesbian, polyamorous, consanguinamorous, and interracial relationships have always existed. That’s because people are people and gays, lesbians, bisexual, transgendered, polyamorous, and consanguinamorous people have always existed as long as there have been people.

As far as what terms children are raised to use… that has always varied. What is important to a child is being loved.

And speaking of being loved… rape and other forms of abuse, such as child molestation, are not love. This blog is about consenting adults, not adults preying on children. Anyone who, under the law, is an individual adult person, should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adult persons, without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination. Why get upset about such an idea? Really! The lives of others will not be hurt in the slightest once other people have their rights. If anything, everyone will be better off because people will not have to hide who they are; more people will be free to love. I now change can be scary to some people. But change for the better is good.

An Feminist Ally For Polyamory

Another feminist wrote at Flowers and Feminism about polyamory...

Modern-day polyamory is intertwined with the rise of feminism and its roots go as far back as the 1840s. Flouting the repression and conservativeness of the Victorian era, the most radical women renounced monogamy as a tool of their oppression. The anarchist Emma Goldman lived with her boyfriend and another couple, and the four of them often made love together. The first books on the polyamory movement were written by women; a sizeable number of polyamorous households consist of more men than women. 

Polyamory can definitely be feminist. It is up to the individuals involves. A woman is polyamorous as part of who she is should not be expected to conform to monogamy. Same goes for a man.

But when we enter into a monogamous relationship with another person, we enter into a series of unsaid expectations of how that relationship will function. Polyamory is different because it forces you to have open discussion about these expectations. Society does not yet have a preformed package of expectations for poly relationships. And talking on equal terms about how to structure your relationship rather than defaulting to the unspoken heteronormative is beneficial for all parties. There are fewer cracks through which insidious power dynamics can creep. 

Monogamists should not leave expectations unsaid. Nobody should. People need to communicate when they are making plans with another person or other people, and not take the stance that if an expectation is never said, it can never be challenged and is binding on the other person.

I’m not suggesting that we should all reject monogamy; it’s working pretty well for me at the moment. What needs to change is the widespread closed-mindedness regarding different relationship structures and the assumption that polyamory is somehow less valuable or viable than other relationship structures. We should question our monogamy because in most cases we didn’t freely choose it. We defaulted to it.

It is good to have an ally. More people are realizing polyamory is for them. Many people will consider it but ultimate stick with monogamy. That's great. The important thing is that they are truly free to consider it.

Will the US President Support Full Marriage Equality?

President Obama, who is running for a second term, has recently announced his support for the same-gender freedom to marry. It is looking like his Democratic Party will be officially adopting support for the same-gender freedom to marry into their national platform. Mitt Romney, who will be the Republican challenger for the November election, has opposed the same-gender freedom to marry, but he's been known to change his mind more than the average American politician. It isn't looking like the Republican Party will be supporting the same-gender freedom to marry this year in their national platform. It really is a shame what has happened to that party in that they have long abandoned their past leadership in civil rights. The party originated in the 19th century as anti-slavery and even into the 1960s was supportive of civil rights, but has lately been more or less controlled by those opposing LGBT rights, the same-gender freedom to marry, and full marriage equality. There are some prominent Republicans who have announced their support of the same-gender freedom to marry, so there is hope there.

But I wanted to focus on another part of full marriage equality: the polygamous freedom to marry and rights for the polyamorous in general. Unless something tragic happens (goodness forbid), for the next 4+ years, either Obama or Romney is going to be President (sorry, my friends who are hoping for another candidate to win... the reality of American Presidential elections is not on your side, at least for this election cycle). If Romney is elected, he could be there for as long as 8 years.

Both of these men come from a heritage of polygamy. You can look it up yourself, and Talal Al-Khatib is calling attention to it at discovery.com. Obama has championed equality and civil rights. Romney has claimed to want "less government." Those are both reasons to support adult relationship rights in general and full marriage equality: equality (obviously) and getting the government out of the role of telling adults they can't marry each other or, in some cases, even be together.

Obama's father, Barack Obama, Sr., was already married just as he was about to marry Dunham. Obama's grandfather, Hussein Onyango, had at least four wives and his great-grandfather, Obama Opiyo, had five, including two who were sisters, according to a report by the Washington Post.

During the early days of the Mormon church, of which Romney and his ancestors are members, polygamy was acceptable and widely practiced. Romney's great-grandfathers, Miles Park Romney and Helaman Pratt, practiced polygamy, and in the case of the former, even left the country as a result of anti-polygamy laws in the United States.

I look forward to the day when an American President stands up and proudly says, "An adult should be free to marry any consenting adults. I support full marriage equality."