A Young Italian Man in Love

We have another exclusive interview to bring you. 

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. Most can’t even be out of the closet or they’ll face prosecution under absurd incest laws, which, instead of focusing on abuse, also target consensual relationships.

The man interviewed below should be free to legally marry his lover, or simply to be together as a couple without having to hide, yet they can’t. Prejudice can be deadly. They are consenting adults who aren’t hurting anyone; why should they have been denied their rights? In much of the world, they could be criminally prosecuted for their love, and might be persecuted severely in addition.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what this man has to say about the love he shares with his partner. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic and romantic, but whatever your reaction, should lovers like these be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

Also please note that someone you love, respect, and admire could be in a similar relationship right now. Should they be attacked and denied rights because of the "incest" label?

This man primarily speaks Italian and we are very fortunate to get this interview in English.

*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Tell us about yourself.

Enrico: There's not that much to say about me. I consider myself relatively ordinary. I'm twenty years old, studying medicine at university. I have a good average but it's also true that I spend practically all day on books. My family is undoubtedly well off, I've never had any particular economic problems, but that doesn't mean I'm rolling in money.

One Family in Serbia

We have another interview to bring you.

As this interview is being published, there are many people still spending more time home with family members. Perhaps some of them will find this interview an inspiration? Or they can see this for some possibilities.

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. Most can’t even be out if the closet or they’ll gave prosecution under absurd incest laws, which, instead of focusing on abuse, also target consensual relationships.

The man interviewed below should be free to legally marry his lover, or simply to be together as a couple without having to hide. They are consenting adults who aren’t hurting anyone; why should they be denied their rights? In much of the world, they could be criminally prosecuted for their love, and might be persecuted severely in addition.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what this man has to say. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly romantic, but whatever your reaction, should lovers like these be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

Also please note that someone you love, respect, and admire could be in a similar relationship right now. Should they be attacked and denied rights because of the "incest" label?

*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALTY: Describe yourself.

Anonymous Man: I am a 19 year-old student from Serbia. I am an average looking  guy, I wear glasses, I am kinda shy, a gamer type person. My ethnicity is Serbian, I already have primary school, secondary school, and now I am learning in a university. I am studying s media course. I have a 21 year-old sister who is learning in the same university as me. But not on the same course.

My mother and her first son are a couple but they aren't married because of the law. But they wear rings. They are our parents. Our mother is 62 and our father is 42.

FME: How do you describe your gender and sexual orientation?

Why Russia Needs Full Marriage Equality

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted, even in places like Russia, where their relationships are not criminlized. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law.

The man interviewed below should be free to legally marry his spouse and mother of his children, yet they can't. They are consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone; why should they be denied their rights? In much of the world, they could be criminally prosecuted for their love

Read the interview below and see for yourself what this man has to say. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic and romantic, but whatever your reaction, should these lovers be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

*****


FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourself.

Ivan: I’m a 24-year-old lawyer working mostly from home. I live in Moscow now with my sister and our four children.

Making a Mark

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are, by law, denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law.

The man interviewed below should be free to legally marry his lover, yet they can't, and they could be imprisoned and have their lives ruined if they were outed to the wrong people. They are consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone; why should they be denied their rights? In much of the world, including all but a a few US states, they could be criminally prosecuted for their love

Read the interview below and see for yourself what this man has to say. You may think his relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic and romantic, but whatever your reaction, should these lovers be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?


WARNINGS: Mildly explicit sexuality.


*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourself.

Mark: I’m a thirty-something white male. I live on the outskirts of a big city in Switzerland. I have no kids or siblings. I think I'm middle class; I can afford to treat myself, and mom, to some niceties of life, but don't own a yacht or a Ferrari. I'm an avid cyclist, downhill skier and love photography. I'm a member of a handball team and earn my living as an engineer.  I like to think that I'm liked and respected by my peers.  Although I do enjoy good company, I'm not a party animal. 

A Daughter Supports Her Parents

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Even where their love is not criminalized, they can still face harassment, discrimination, and other forms or persecution. Fortunately, some consanguinamorists and some family members are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are, by law, denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. This blog has also had a few interviews with family members of consanguinamorists, such as the one below. 

The woman interviewed below shouldn't have hide the truth about her family.Her parents are consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone; why should they be denied their rights? 

Read the interview below and see for yourself what she has to say when she can speak freely in safety. The interview has been edited for clarity, as English is not her first language.

*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourself.

Anonymous Daughter: I'm 19, living in a city in Russia, with my parents at the moment. I just finished my studies and I'm not working now. 

Who Can Help With GSA in Europe?

A desperate comment was left after this entry on this blog:

"Keith, do you have any idea how or where in Europe can I come in contact with some licensed expert to attest to my defense in a pending case in front a jury? on the GSA condition? as I can not use a mail address please PUT IT HERE. RATHER URGENT. thank you"

It's sad this kind of thing is still an issue. I get private messages and emails with similar urgency. 

If anyone reading this knows of someone, please speak up or get in contact.

The Royal We

A discussion was underway at theroyalforums.com about "Incestuous Royal Marriages." This blog has noted such things before.
 
Kataryn started off the discussion YEARS ago...

Legally Catherine of Aragon was married incestually because she as widow of one brother married the other after the first hausband's death.

That's not considered incest in most definitions.

But that's just a formality. History has shown that Royal families did not hesitate to form very close bonds between them. While a marriage of cousin and cousin happened quite often, marriages between unles and nieces are rare - but they happened, too.

One example is the marriage of Antoinette Marie of Wuerttemberg to Ernst I. of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Marie's mother Antoinette of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld was the sister of the groom.

Then there are the three uncle-niece marriages of the Spanish and Austrian Habsburgs:

- Philipp II. married Anna of Austria, the daughter of his sister Marie.

- Archduke Charles II of Austria-Innerösterreich married Maria Anna of Bavaria, daughter of his sister Anna of Austria.

- Philipp IV. married Marianna of Austria, daughter of his sister Maria Anna.

As you can see, the last three uncle-niece-marriages happened in the House of Habsburg between 1550 and 1660 in the direct line leading to Philipp IV. of Spain and his wife Marianna of Austria. Their child is the sad, sick Don Carlos of Schillerian fame...

Not 100 years later, the House of Habsburg ended in the male line. But of course the marriage of Maria Theresia of Austria to Francis Stephan of Lorraine brought new blood into the family..

As I understand it, uncle-niece marriages are allowed in some places in deference to religious traditions.

Malta Advances

Malta is getting the limited same-sex freedom to marry! Yay! Keep evolving, Malta!

Move France Forward

France doesn't criminalize consanguineous relationships, but it still needs to be more egalitarian in marriage laws. As Jane has already noted on her blog, there is a petition we urge you to sign that calls for this.

A Bisexual Woman Denied Her Rights

This blog has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are, by law, denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law.

The woman interviewed below is clearly able to consent to her relationship. She and her lovers should be free to decide whether or not to legally marry, yet they could be harassed and persecuted if they were open about their love. They are consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone; why should they be denied their rights? If they were to move to another country, including most of the US, her lovers could be criminally prosecuted for their love.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what she has to say. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it incredibly sexy, but whatever your reaction, should these lovers be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights?


*****


FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Tell us about yourself.

Nadia: I'm living in Minsk, Belarus, and I'm working as a waitress at the moment. The twins are living in a village not far away, and they are both in university.


FME: How would you describe your sexual orientation and your relationship orientation?

I'm bisexual and polyamorous. One of my partners is pansexual and polyamorous, and the other is demisexual and polyamorous.

From Russia With Love

This blog has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are, by law, denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law.

The woman interviewed below is clearly able to consent to her relationship. They should be free to decide whether or not to legally marry, yet they could be harassed and persecuted if they were open about their love. They are consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone; why should they be denied their rights? If they were to move to another country, including most of the US, they could be criminally prosecuted for their love.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what she has to say. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it incredibly sexy, but whatever your reaction, should these lovers be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights?


*****


FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Tell us about yourself.Natasha: We are currently living in Russia, and I am a full-time homemaker.



FME: Are you married or have you ever been legally and/or ceremonially married?

We're married in pretty much every sense but legally. We had as big a ceremony as we could get away with, with our close friends, some of my brother's work friends, and our elder sister.

Living People Have Rights

There's interesting political activity out of Sweden, as reported by Sara Malm at dailymail.co.uk...

The youth wing of the Swedish Liberal party has filed a motion to legalize necrophilia and incest.

Sex (that's consensual, to be redundant) between living adults should not be a criminal matter. That simple concept, by definition, includes consensual incest. Our general legal system does not treat a corpse the same as a living person, so necrophilia involves a different set of questions than adult intergenerational, interracial, gay, polyamorous, and consanguinamorous relationships.

Liberal Youth of Sweden said that just because it is 'viewed as unusual and disgusting', does not mean that the deprived sexual acts should be illegal.

Right. That would be Discredited Argument #1.

Austrian Consanguinamorous Couple Talks With Media

It can be very, very difficult for journalists to get consanguineous lovers to share about their relationship and life together. Due to continuing bigotry, often expressed in senseless criminalization, people enjoying a consanguinamorous relationship often shy away from media out of self-preservation.

Jennifer Tillmann at vice.com managed to get a couple to talk with her, as long as their identities were protected. One of them describes the hate hurled their way...

Tom's profile picture shows him and his girlfriend, Lena. She hugs him from behind, lovingly kissing him on the neck. He is smiling, twining his fingers in her long, brown hair. Strictly speaking, nothing is wrong with this photo. It shows two people who love each other—a relationship based on mutual attraction. 

But Lena is Tom's sister, and for most people this changes everything; the photograph actually becomes criminal evidence. "I'm scared of people finding me disgusting," says Tom. He looks away from me and claws at his fingers. He's been in a committed relationship with his sister for 20 years, and the couple has a child together. "There's nothing that I haven't heard before. People have called me a desecrator, sister-f---er, or simply retarded. And all that's come out of the mouths of people who were at one time my friends. Even if society won't recognize us, we exist and there are more of us than you think."

There sure are.

The Pain in Spain Repeated Refrain

There's been much interest around the planet about the couple in Spain who've had their infant (temporarily, hopefully) taken away. We wrote about this previously here.


Here's a few examples of the coverage, and below that, we'll analyze opinion about this.

Will Grice has coverage at independent.co.uk.


Kate Storey has the coverage at cosmopolitan.com.

Here's coverage at motherhoodinstyle.net.

Rebecca Koerber has the coverage at huffingtonpost.com.au.

Sophie Tighe has the coverage at thesun.co.uk.

Now we get into the blatant opinions. Elizabeth Licata had coverage at mommyish.com under the headline "Incestuous Father-Daughter Couple Fights for Return of Their Baby, Which They Probably Should Not Get."

The heart wants what the heart wants, and when it comes to relationships there is a fine gray line between “legal” and “awful,” but this case of a couple from Spain who are fighting the courts for the return of their new baby is nowhere near that line, because the couple are a father and his teenage daughter, and everything about this case is positively stomach-churning in its horribleness.

That's not a reason. It begs the question.

The Pain in Spain

A situation out of Mallorca, Spain is getting international attention as there appears to be an unnecessary removing of a child from her mother.

The most important line in the article by Fiona Govan at thelocal.es is the opening line...

Incest is not against the law in Spain as long as it is carried out between consenting adults, but a father and daughter are appealing after a judge awarded temporary custody of their child to the state pending a full investigation.

Spain is one of the better countries in the world for consanguineous lovers, usually.

The 36-year-old man insists he is in a "unique and loving relationship" with his 18-year-old daughter Sara and that they should be allowed to keep his newborn baby girl - who is also his granddaughter.

The man, who has given his name as Cris, told the local newspaper Cronica Balear that his ex-wife (and mother of Sara) had reported him for abuse because she was jealous of the relationship.

That is not unusual, unfortunately. Friends and family of the consanguinamorous should have compassion instead of being rats.

Thanks to Dr. Endrik Wilhelm

Thanks to a Friend of FME for calling my attention to this interview at dw.com with Dr. Endrik Wilhelm, a solicitor for criminal law based in Germany, about legalizing consanguinamory.

There's a very good map at The Final Manifesto's blogspot. Whatever these maps depict, it would be a good idea for anyone concerned to contact attorneys or lawyers or solicitors where they live who specialize in criminal and family law to get clarification about the laws where they live.

Section 173 in the German criminal code says that sexual contact between siblings is illegal. Offenders face years in prison. Where does the problem lie in the current legal situation in Germany?

The criminal offense itself isn't even linked to the evolution of new life, it's limited to vaginal sex - irrespective of whether it's protected, whatever contraception is or isn't being used, whether or not a woman can even bear a child - all of that doesn't matter, vaginal sex between siblings is illegal, full stop.

It's not an offense to have oral or anal sex, and that's where the Federal Constitutional Court's verdict from 2008 really does get ridiculous. Don't you push a loving couple into a desperate situation once you ban them from having sex? The court said that wouldn't be the case because they'd have 'enough other options' for intercourse. This whole discussion is utterly irrational.

It Must Be Prosecuted Because... Prosecution!

Previously, I noted positive news out of Germany about support for decriminalizing consanguineous sex between siblings. I wanted to take a look at how a couple of other news sources covered the story. Here's the news as it is presented at telegraph.co.uk by Justin Huggler.

Laws banning incest between brothers and sisters in Germany could be scrapped after a government ethics committee said the they were an unacceptable intrusion into the right to sexual self-determination.

“Criminal law is not the appropriate means to preserve a social taboo,” the German Ethics Council said in a statement. “The fundamental right of adult siblings to sexual self-determination is to be weighed more heavily than the abstract idea of protection of the family.”

Laws against consanguinamory are actually harmful to families, in many ways, including adults who are in consensual relationships some raising children together, feeling that they can't be completely honest and open with health care providers and being denied equal access to legal marriage when they feel it would benefit them; peaceful homes being disrupted and torn apart as adults are prosecuted for consensual sex and their children taken away; minors close in age engaging in normal adolescent experimentation with each other not being able to talk with parents or counselors about it... on and on it goes.

About one famous case specifically...

The family was forced to live apart after the courts ruled that there was a duty to protect their children from the consequences of their relationship.

And what were those consequences? Criminal prosecution! Don't you see how that works? The people PROSECUTING are telling lovers the problem with them being together is... that they could be prosecuted! Hmmm... how to remove the negative consequences... oh yeah... how about... NOT PROSECUTING THEM???

German Ethics Council Gets It Partially Right

One of the most famous cases of Genetic Sexual Attraction that was reported in the news media was the Stübing case in Germany, in which consenting adults were prosecuted, convicted, and given criminal sentences for loving each other. Now there may be some legal progress around the corner.

Several news outlets are reporting on this story, and here's what was printed at dw.de... 

The German Ethics Council has called for the repeal of the prohibition of incest between siblings. In a statement released on Wednesday, the majority of the council's members requested that consensual sexual relations between siblings of legal age should no longer be a crime.

That's a good start.

Among other things, the council argued that the risk of genetic impairment to a child born from an incestuous relationship doesn't completely warrant the current ban and that the social taboos remain even without an implemented law.

They've seen through the sham of Discredited Argument #18.

A spokeswoman for Angela Merkel's CDU party, Elisabeth Winkelmeier-Becker, responded to the Ethics Council's vote saying that the abolition of the law against incest would give out the wrong signal.

"Abolishing criminal punishment against incestuous actions within a family would go completely against protecting the undisturbed development of children," she added.

Huh? How so? This is about grown people. Here's the signal it would give out: We see the folly of prosecuting consenting adults for loving each other.

Nine members of the Ethics Council voted for continued adherence to the ban, highlighting the importance of roles within a family, which they say incest threatens to destabilize.

They never explain how, but let's accept their reason for the sake of argument. Would they support decriminalizing consanguinamory for cases like with the one the article references, in which they were not raised together and thus did not have those roles? Or was the "destabilization" thing just an excuse to mask their personal prejudice? I think we know the answer.

Two members of the council abstained from the vote.

Statistically, at is very likely at least one if not more of the people on council have personal experience with a sibling that was positive.

An adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults. This is a a small step in the right direction.

Having What the Royals Had

David Dobbs wrote at National Geographic about consanguineous sex among royals.

Royal incest, notes historian Joanne Carando, was "not only accepted but even encouraged" in Hawaii as an exclusive royal privilege.

In fact, while virtually every culture in recorded history has held sibling or parent-child couplings taboo, royalty have been exempted in many societies, including ancient Egypt, Inca Peru, and, at times, Central Africa, Mexico, and Thailand. And while royal families in Europe avoided sibling incest, many, including the Hohenzollerns of Prussia, the Bourbons of France, and the British royal family, often married cousins. The Spanish Habsburgs, who ruled for nearly 200 years, frequently married among close relatives.

Sadly, those who do as the royals did are now often prosecuted and treated as second class citizens.

He has the obligatory “this can mess up your genes” talk included, noting…

Siblings share half their genes on average, as do parents and offspring. First cousins' genomes overlap 12.5 percent. Matings between close relatives can raise the danger that harmful recessive genes, especially if combined repeatedly through generations, will match up in the offspring, leading to elevated chances of health or developmental problems—perhaps Tut's partially cleft palate and congenitally deformed foot or Charles's small stature and impotence.

Any child can have health problems. But what doesn’t get talked about enough are the potential positives. Dobbs, thankfully, writes…

And the hazards, while real, are not absolute. Even the high rates of genetic overlap generated in the offspring of sibling unions, for instance, can create more healthy children than sick ones.

Thank you.

Yet affection sometimes drives these bonds. Bingham learned that even after King Kamehameha III of Hawaii accepted Christian rule, he slept for several years with his sister, Princess Nahi'ena'ena—pleasing their elders but disturbing the missionaries. They did it, says historian Carando, because they loved each other.

Imagine that. Some family members love each other in ways that include sexual. That certainly doesn’t fit the bigoted stereotype of “rape and incest.” Nonrelatives can rape or sexually abuse, and relatives can lovingly engage in consensual sex. The problem isn't consanguineous sex; the problem is rape and abuse. Loving, consensual, consanguineous sex should not be kept buried with the royals of the past. It should be brought into the open and enjoyed by all who want to share the tradition old as time.

France Needs to Keep Evolving

Here's an example of why France, which recently embraced the limited same-gender freedom to marry, needs to evolve to full marriage equality sooner rather than later.

Two adults, in the 40s, are being denied their right to marry.

Why?

Because many years ago, she was married to his father.

It doesn't matter that the hopeful groom was well into adulthood when she married his father.

It doesn't matter that the marriage only lasted three years.

It doesn't matter that she was left by that husband.

It doesn't matter that they are close in age.

The ridiculous laws say she is a stepmother to him, that such a relationship means they are to be denied their right to marry, and even the President can't do anything about it until the law is changed.

France has been friendly to consanguinamory, but when it comes to marriage, even though there is no blood relation, the discrimination continues.

As the law stands now, this couple can only marry if the hopeful groom's father dies/

How stupid is that?

Liberty? Equality? Hardly!

Lawmakers in France and just about every other country need to remedy the inequalities and inconsistencies sooner rather than later. It is simple, really. Rather than quibbling over which adults get which rights, just adopt a blanket approach: an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any and all consenting adults, without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

By the way, the article gives no indication of what the hopeful groom's father thinks of all of this. At some time, he wanted this woman. Why is it surprising his son wants her now?