Revisiting the Legal Nitty-Gritty of Polygamy

This entry is getting a bump-up because it is as relevant as ever.

A very kind reader sent along a description of the legal theory by which the polygamous freedom to marry can be accomplished, and I will offer my thoughts as well. It's a long essay, Ultimately, the thing to take away is that our laws can accommodate people in any form of polyamory who want legal recognition of a marriage (polyagamy). Since as far as the government involvement is concerned, marriage is mostly about financial and "who has responsibility for whom" issues, contract and business law has already demonstrated that three or more people can have legally recognized relationships. I had previous written about this here.

There is an ongoing discussion among polyamory activists regarding a legal model of polyamorous marriage (i.e., the extension of the legal concept of marriage to include polyamorous families). One debate centers around the relative merits of an all-with-all approach to marriage (whereby three or more persons are all joined together at the same time within a single marriage) and dyadic networks (whereby existing laws against bigamy are revised such that people are perfectly free to be concurrently married to multiple other persons, provided that each such new marriage is preceded by a legal notification regarding the pending new marriage to all those to whom one is already married; failure to provide that legal notification would then constitute the updated crime of bigamy).

I think both should be offered. The basic paperwork can actually be rather simple.

Dyadic networks would result in what might be thought of as a "molecular" family structure — one which might be best represented by the molecular diagrams commonly used in chemistry. In this way, marriage would remain a dyadic relationship (i.e., a relationship between two persons), thus minimizing any changes to the existing system of legal marriage, but the introduction of concurrency would provide access to legal marriage for polyamorous families.

Dyadic networks can correctly represent any situation associated with the "all-with-all" paradigm, as well as many situations that the "all-with-all" paradigm cannot deal with. A "complete" dyadic network would take the form of a complete graph, in which every person is (pairwise) married to every other person, thus correctly representing any situation associated with the "all-with-all" paradigm.

What this is saying that if A, B, and C all want to marry as a triad, with a dyadic model that can be accomplished through A & B marrying, A & C marrying, and B & C marrying. However, the all-with-all model automatically does this with one ceremony and one piece of paper. All-with-all wouldn't be what every polycule would want, as detailed below. It would only be a desirable option for polycules in which every individual wants to be married to all of the others. It would only work for the triangle or the square below.

The Odds Are Good

We continue to get questions about mother-son relationships at this blog's sister Tumblr. Here's the latest question and answer.

The Other Shoe Drops in Indiana, Shedding More Light

The other day, we noted and commented on an arrest in Indiana. Here's word of a second arrest in the same case, and more information about the case, from Liz Shepherd at the same news website.

A second individual was charged with incest after admitting to having sexual intercourse multiple times with a male relative. 

Charges have officially been filed against William Glenn Davis, 54, 23095 Tyler Road, Lakeville; and Samantha Lyn Davis, 21,1903 West Point Drive, Warsaw. Each have been charged with incest, a level 5 felony.

They are consenting adults. This shouldn't be a law enforcement matter in the first place.

On Jan. 17, an officer with the Warsaw Police Department responded to a domestic disturbance at a Warsaw residence. The officer arrived and spoke with Samantha Davis and her ex-boyfriend. Both subjects were accusing the other of domestic violence.

So this was NOT about domestic violence between the defendants.

According to the affidavit of probable cause, the officer spoke with the ex-boyfriend, who advised that he and Samantha Davis were arguing because she was having sexual relations with William Davis. Samantha Davis admitted in July 2018, she started having sexual intercourse with William Davis at her residence. She had sexual intercourse and sexual conduct with him multiple times during 2018. The relationship between Samantha Davis and William Davis was removed from court documents.

Based on the laws and their ages, she's either his daughter or his niece; there's a slight chance she's his granddaughter or half-sister. Those are the possibilities.

So they were ratted out by her ex-boyfriend, who may or may not have gotten into a domestic violence situation with her. Too bad he wasn't an ally.

Is Indiana Still Arresting Consenting Adults?

From infreenews.com comes a report of a "President Of Local Business Arrested For Incest"...

William Glen Davis, 54, 23095 Tyler Road, Lakeville, was arrested at 5:46 p.m. Friday, Jan. 18, on a charge of incest. Davis is president of Lake City Heat Treating Corporation, 2427 N. Boeing Road, Warsaw.

Why do they include a picture, name, address, and his business? How is that relevant??? Why not hand the bigots pitchforks???

Notice the charge is "incest" and not "assault."

According to information from authorities at the Warsaw Police Department, police were notified of a domestic complaint Thursday, Jan. 17, on West Point Drive, Warsaw.

These days, neighbors can call in a "domestic complaint" and the police are usually obligated to investigate. No proof other than what the caller says need be offered. On the other hand, it could be that someone inside the home was scared and called the police. We aren't given enough detail.

Detectives went to the scene and during the interview with an adult female involved in the domestic complaint, she told police she had been having sexual relations with a relative. That relative was Davis. 

Police report the relationship had been going on for some time and was confirmed by both parties involved. 

Davis was interviewed by police and arrested following the interview. Charges have been signed and filed with the prosecutor’s office.

A few things to say:

1) She is an adult.

2) Sexual relations and assault are two very different things. He was arrested for "incest" and not assault.

3) Indiana, like most states, doesn't criminalize sex between first cousins, so unless police acted outside the law, that means this relative is either his mother (or grandmother), daughter (or granddaughter), niece, aunt, or sister, because Indiana DOES still criminalize sex between those consenting adults.

4) Perhaps they didn't know that sex between consenting adults is still criminalized in Indiana, and so they had no hesitation to tell the police they have sex? Here's what consanguinamorous people need to do to protect themselves.

More charges are expected pending further investigation.

What does that mean? That the woman, who also broke the unconstitutional law, is going to get arrested and charged? THIS IS A WASTE OF PUBLIC RESOURCES! If he assaulted her or anyone else, charge him with that. If consenting adults are having sex, that shouldn't be crime. Consanguineous sex happens every day not far from where you are reading this, wherever you are. Thankfully, most of it never results in an arrest. Stop this senseless persecution. There is no good reason to deny them their right to be together. We need relationships rights for all, including full marriage equality, everywhere.

UPDATE: She was arrested, too.

Martin Luther King, Jr.

In the US, Monday is a holiday, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Day. He was a giant in the fight for civil rights.



Many decades after he was assassinated, the fight for civil rights continues.

History is on our side. All consenting adults will be free to exercise their rights to share love, sex, residence, and marriage.

Are you like those who kept trying to keep some people second-class citizens, or are you like the people who marched with King?

Where Are They Now?

Some people, while not themselves involved in consanguinamory, are turned on by erotica with an incest theme. Some people who are, or have been, involved in consanguinamory want nothing to do interacting with or providing masturbation material for the first group. This causes friction when these two groups intersect at incest websites. (As always, I’m referring to adult consensual sex.) Some discussion forums have deliberately maintained a policy prohibiting pornographic images or videos. Some of the antiporn sentiment within the consanguinamory community mirrors a general population antiporn sentiment that adult videos and images aren’t good representations of, or are even antithetical to, the reality of intimacy and lovemaking.

I'm not here to take sides on that issue. I try to keep this blog a safe and welcoming place to visit for all.

The rest of this entry is about a specific set of such explicit adult incest videos that have been widely circulated, as I have a curiosity about the participants. Click to read more only if you want to read or comment on this subject. [I am bumping up this entry because it is still relevant. Check the comments below for some updates.]

England Still Prosecuting Consenting Adults

While the vast majority of consanguineous sex and consanguinamory never becomes a law enforcement matter and there are people not far from you engaging in consanguinamory as you read this, there are still places where some people are prosecuted for the "crime" of enjoying each other's company.

Here's a report from stokesentinel.co.uk...

An uncle and niece had two children together after forming a sexual relationship.

Nowhere in the article is it mentioned that those children have any health problems whatsoever, and you just know that would be included if they did. So we can assume that like most children born to such relationships, the children are fine. Except that their parents are being harassed and discriminated against and branded.

Details of the incest have emerged as the pair were taken to court after coming clean to their family.

So their family ratted them out. How terrible. Don't be like those rats!

Stoke-on-Trent Crown Court heard the man and woman, who are both from North Staffordshire but cannot be named for legal reasons, were a couple for years and even had children together. 

Prosecutor Robert Price said the male defendant was the brother of the female defendant's mum. 

After initially denying the allegations, the couple came clean when confronted by relatives and the authorities.

The family should have kept it at that.

The pair, who are no longer a couple but still live in the area, pleaded guilty to having sex with an adult relative.

What an absurd "crime." There's no victim. Consenting adults have a right to be together how they mutually agree.

Judge David Fletcher sentenced both defendants, who have no previous convictions, to a 12-month community order with supervision. The man was ordered to complete 40 hours unpaid work and the woman was made the subject of a six-week curfew from 11pm to 8am. 

Both were placed on the sex offenders’ register for five years.

Outrageous! At least they weren't thrown in prison, like some others. How, exactly, have they been dangerous to anyone? What threat do they pose? What's wrong with loving each other?

There is no good reason to prosecute lovers like this.

If they really did break up and aren't just appearing to let strangers control their love life, I'd be curious as to why. Sometimes it is exactly because of such unjust prosecutions that lovers don't stay together. The threat of being so mistreated by their own government is too much stress.

If you're in a similar relationship, this is why you might want to keep the closet door closed and otherwise protect yourself and each other.

Dan Savage Answers Letter About GSA Affair

Columnist Dan Savage answered a letter relative to this blog. He redacted many details out of the letter, but the gist of it is that someone who was adopted out as a child has entered into an affair with their reunited biological/genetic parent. Both of them are in relationships and this is cheating. The LW, who claims to be a friend of the younger person in involved, wants to know if this relationship, which they recognize as GSA, can work out.

Kudos to Savage for not entirely dismissing Genetic Sexual Attraction.

Usually when people ask if a romantic relationship is going to "work out," WAMFBNIWTS, what they mean is, "Will these two cuties be together in a committed romantic relationship for the rest of their lives?"

True. Although some of us consider relationships to have been successful even if they end or drop the romance or sex, depending on what happened during or as a result of the relationship.

Another Example of Why We Will Win

Inspired by a "hit list" from misguided crusaders on Tumblr, someone sent this blog's sister Tumblr a hate message...

Incest is gross and illegal for a reason

What does one say to that?

"Thank you for that well-reasoned contribution to human discourse."?

I'd be curious to know how this person defines "incest". Abuse is gross. It's also gross to try to use the force of law to interfere with consensual sex, love, and relationships.

It's gross for people to contact strangers to make such ridiculous statements, which accomplish nothing positive.

We Get Letters From Half Brothers

How is the New Year treating you?

Today's new post is a good opportunity to remind you that you can provide feedback on what we're doing be commenting at the end of the post (which you can do anonymously, if you prefer) and be emailing Keith at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com.

Anonymous left a comment on an entry that answers the FAQ "Can siblings marry?"

I don't get why a half-brother or sister can't marry. It is ridiculous. If two people love one another they should be able to marry if they so choose to.

Agreed!

As for myself and my love, we are quite happy together and are madly in love. We want to be married and be free with our expression of love, however, people are so damn judgmental and closed-minded and hateful that we can't do anything as a couple around people whom actually know who we are, which is aggravating as hell.

Yes, having to hide is awful. It's terrible that people feel pressured to do that. But congratulations on your love!

We are half-brother and sister, and no, it is not lust. I/we know the difference. I have been in many horrible relationships with other people, if you could even call them that, more like nightmare-ships (even had a child in one of them). 

I had not ever felt a true love like I do with her. We did not grow up together and no, it's not "GSA" either. I have looked all over the place about this subject. We talked about this for quite a long time before we ever started our relationship with one another, and everything that we would have to deal with at one point or another, and we both said 'F' the world and its views and opinions about us, the law included.

Interesting. I do think the authority of law would be stronger if there weren't laws criminalizing or otherwise discriminating against consenting adults for loving each other. Having such laws still in effect does much damage to respect for the law.

I would like to add to this that my sister and I are also an endangered species. Yes, that is correct, and we have been put on the list as insulting as it is it is true. This was caused by Columbus and all that followed after him. Need I say more? And as a result, those who remain are related to me/her so I/we are in a conundrum created by the same people who made these laws in North America. I/we are dual citizens, really. It comes down to" breed our race out and become permanent fixtures in you're museums" like we already are, or try to revive ourselves. 

That is a very interesting point. Where laws deny marriage rights to first cousins or close relatives, or even criminalize sex between first cousins as a handful of states do, it can practically force very small minority populations to disappear. Consanguinamory can keep the groups strong and continuing.

I have love in my life and am grateful for it, as my life was always filled with hate until I connected with the one and only true love of my life. I have not ever felt the way I do, ever in my life, about anyone or anything, and I am not about to let it go because a false government tells me so or a blind law makes me do something I don't want to do or a religious faction preaching hell-bound or some hater group either. 

Congrats on that love, Anonymous, and please do comment whenever you want and please do reach out via email, if you're willing.

There is no good reason why these lovers should be denied their right to marry or simply to be together without discrimination. They are from a historically oppressed class, and to continue to deny them their rights perpetuates that oppression.

Polygamy Is Valid

Polygamy is a valid form of marriage and our laws should affirm that.

Please note we're not talking about older men forcing themselves on little girls under the guise of religion.

We're talking about consenting adults of all sexual orientations and genders, regardless of religious affiliation, who want to have ethically nonmonogamous marriages.

What kind of sense is it that in almost every US state and in many countries, it is entirely legal to live with multiple partners, have sex with them, have and raise children with them, etc., but you can't be legally married to more than one person at the same time, even though that's what everyone involved wants? It's ridiculous, unjust, and discriminatory. In some countries, a husband can have multiple wives, but not the other way around and not multiple husbands (or even one!). That needs to change, too.

We can't have full marriage equality if we have inequality. Equality just for some is not equality. There is no good reason to deny this fundamental right to consenting adults. Some people are nonmonogamous, and there is no changing that.

All the paperwork issues can be resolved.

If someone can find two or more people to marry them, more power to them! Let's be happy for them instead of treating them like second class citizens or trying to pin blame on them.

The polygamous freedom to marry is needed, and needed now. There are people who'd exercise that freedom today if they could. Let's stop the bigotry and get on the right side of history sooner rather than later. Let's ensure that an adult is truly free to marry any and all consenting adults.

Japan Needs Full Marriage Equality

Every nation on the planet needs gender equality, the freedom to live out our gender identities and sexual orientations, and full marriage equality.

There are couples in Japan who are suing to seek progress. From japantoday.com...

The couples argue that the government's position on same-sex marriage flouts equality under the law and freedom of marriage as protected in the Japanese Constitution.

Let's look at what the Constitution says...

Article 24 of the Constitution says, "Marriage shall be based only on the mutual consent of both sexes." 

The government has indicated that it interprets this to apply only to heterosexual couples while the lawyers working for the couples argue that some legal scholars do not see it as prohibiting same-sex marriage. 

The government also argues that the term "husband and wife" used in the civic law and the family registration law indicates a man and a woman, and thus cannot accept marriage applications from gay and lesbian couples.

So change the laws.

There are comments after the article.

Concerned Citizen...

There are many people who cannot marry according to law regardless of whether they love thier partner/s. 

A) People cannot marry if one of the partners is underage.
B) An existing couple cannot expand thier marriage with a third or fourth or more person/s.
C) A person cannot marry someone who is already married to someone else.
D) Polygamy is not allowed.
E) Incestuous marriages are not allowed. 

There are people who fit in the above categories that want to marry because they love each other. Is the law discriminatory towards them for forbidding them? No. Are we hateful to them because we don't think they should be allowed to legally marry? No.
The legal line must be drawn somewhere.

Yes, and it should be drawn at consenting adults. Consenting adults are generally allowed to enter into contracts.

There is no good reason to deny consenting adults their fundamental right to marry. Let's get on
 the right side of history!

Answering Anonymous Questions

Anonymous asked (on Tumblr)...

Do you ACTUALLY know of men/women that asked their parents to be their first sexual experience (for whatever reason)? Isn’t that just a sign of people with poor social skills that could not connect with anyone to it had to come down to this?

Yes I do know people who’ve done this. Not one that I know has regretted it.