Polish Producer Michal Kwiecinsk Is Shameless

So much to blog, so little time. Back in the middle of the month, timesofindia.com had words from the producer of a film of interest to this blog...

Film audiences around the world are growing up and getting ready to accept bolder and controversial themes. But there are still areas that remain taboo, felt Polish producer Michal Kwiecinski. It's just as difficult to make a film on a subject like incest in Poland as in India, he said. Kwiecinski's film 'Shameless', directed by Filip Marczweski, revolves around the "sinful love" between a brother and a sister. It has made waves at several festivals around the world and is now being screened at the 18th Kolkata International Film Festival (KIFF).

Sinful?

'Shameless' is the story of an 18-year-old boy in love with his 28-year-old sister. The latter is in a relationship with the boss of a local Neo-Nazi unit. But she craves for her brother's love.

Sadly, there are people who'd have no objection to her relationship with a Neo-Nazi, but would condemn her for loving her brother.

The film has certain explicit sexual scenes that had to be censored for the screen version. But the DVD version of the film has them. As many as 50,000 DVDs of 'Shameless' have been sold so far. 

I'd like to watch it here in the US. Streaming? Or is there a DVD that will work here?

"Essentially, both Filip and I were keen on making a film on incest. It's set in a typical Polish town and the idea was to convey the message that these things are a part of our lives, whether we admit it or not," said Kwiecinski.

He would like to see more Indian films on a subject like this, he said. "I have watched a few Bengali films, though I don't remember their titles. They seem to be making them on a small budget, unlike Bollywood films.

Hollywood needs to take an honest look at the subject.

The reaction of youngsters in India has left him enthused. "They were asking questions and differed on the subject. But they didn't seem to have written it off altogether. I am sure it happens in India," he said.

Of course it does. Also, India has more progressive laws when it comes to consanguinamory. The arts and media should explore consanguinamory and the issues around it. Here is "Shameless" at IMDb.com.

The Best Part of Waking Up is Knowing Love Conquers Hate

I am bumping up this entry because the advertisement in question is getting much attention again. The comments expressed below are typical of the attacks popping up on blogs.

There was more questioning of the Folgers ad, along the lines of the previous mocking I wrote about here. Kristi Gustafson Barlette asked, “Dear Folgers, What’s With the Incest?”

As an adult, I associate Folgers with church basements (they always seem to be cooking up instant coffee at church) — and warm and fuzzy holiday commercials.

The one circulating this year, though, is just … icky.

R and I were watching TV the other day and it came on. At first, I thought the man was coming home from overseas to see his girlfriend. But, um, no — it’s his sister.

Why can’t she be both?

There were many comments left disparaging affection between siblings.

crabby old emily had a positive comment…

I have never felt this commercial implied anything but a sister happy to see her big brotherI Its not abnormal for little girls to have crushes on their big brothers or for brothers to notice a budding sexuality in little sisters,
That doesn’t meant they want to ravish each other.

CoolMom responded with an attack…

OK, I have 3 older bros and NEVER had a crush on any of them and I HIGHLY DOUBT one of them noticed my “budding sexuality”! WHAT?! THAT is creepy…

Since CoolMom doesn’t remember ever having a crush on an older brother, that is supposed to mean that no girls or boys could ever have possibly had crushes on an older brother. It is ridiculous. People can be different. Some people are attracted to people with darker skin, some attracted to people with lighter skin. Some people are attracted to someone of the same gender. We're not all going to have the same attractions.

Other people also attacked emily’s comment.

Here’s what Kevin Marshall had to say about the ad. He wrote “Folgers would like you to have sex with your brother this holiday season.”

First he comes to the door to meet his sister, who immediately identifies herself as Sister and gives him a big hug.

Things get weird around the 30 second mark, when West African Jesus and Sister start acting like they want to have sex with each other until their spot is blown up by their parents:

Apparently, the best part of waking up is preventing your children from engaging in incest.

It saddens me to think there are siblings out there who are affectionate, whether in a sexual or nonsexual way, who read or hear attacks like this, and get the message that they have to hide, or that they should feel bad about sharing such affection.

Young people need to know that sex is not a bad thing, and mutual affection is not a bad thing. If someone else is disgusted by their love or affection, that is that other person’s problem. It should not be a problem for those who love each other. We need full marriage equality sooner rather than later, along with general sexual and relationship rights, so that love can overcome hate.

A Picture of GSA

One is not going to get a good idea of what Genetic Sexual Attraction is from a few minutes of a television interview show sensationalizing the topic with woman, promoting a book and subscription website, with a limited, brief, doubtful experience with a long-lost relative.

The Lioness just posted something that is much better at giving a glimpse of GSA (as do her other blog postings.) She has experienced GSA with her genetic father, and it appears her brother is experiencing it, too. From her recent posting...

My brother spent the night at my apartment about a month ago. We were working with me on something to earn money and we didn’t get complete with our project until one o’clock a.m. I didn’t sleep with him. We mostly kissed. He held me, looked into my eyes, and I felt uncontrollably high. The last time I felt so wonderful in someone’s arms was when my father first held me. Never again has my father made me feel so perfect (I will explain why later). We stared into one another’s eyes for several minutes. I didn’t get it. I mean I do now, but then, it was just so amazing that words cannot describe how I felt. 

Go read it all.

And read interviews with people who've experienced Genetic Sexual Attraction here, here, here, here, here, and here.

A Closer Look at GSA on Dr. Drew

Now is as good of a time as any other to take a look at the transcript from the Dr. Drew show that supposedly discussed Genetic Sexual Attraction.

J. DENEEN: Well, I reunited with my father in February of 2011. 

That means that, even if this is GSA, she had well under two years of experience before she put together a book. There are people who've dealt with GSA, including the good, bad, ugly, beautiful, bitter, and joyous, for many, many years.

And then when we were on vacation about two months after our reunion, he said to me that he had an e-mail that he wanted me to read. And on that e-mail, it said that he wanted to kiss me. And I was shocked and nervous and embarrassed and scared.

But at the same time I had been struggling with my own feelings of wanting to be connected with my father again. It wasn`t sexual, but it was very emotionally intense. And I said no, but he continued to ask. And eventually I said, OK. And we kissed and this began a very inappropriate and unhealthy father/daughter relationship.

What made it inappropriate is that she was in a supposedly closed marriage.

What happens is that bonding process that you should have gone through as a child has not happened. When you reunite as adults, it kicks into gear. The problem is, that if you have any sort of brokenness or emotional issues, addictions, anything like that and you start feeling these abnormal feelings, it can get out of hand really fast.

 GSA is a normal reaction to the circumstances, and healthy people can and do experience it.

An Ally For the Polygamous Freedom to Marry

Margot Harrison at 7dvt.com interviews Professor Janet Bennion about her book Polygamy in Primetime.

courtesy of David Ballou

Like many examples in Bennion’s illuminating study, they defy the popular perception that the practice of men taking multiple wives is solely about the male libido.

You don't say?


But whatever we think of polygamy in America, Bennion argues, it’s not going away anytime soon. And she believes it should be legal.

Thank you! As you can see, she knows her stuff...

Bennion, 48, has been researching polygamy for two decades. As a master’s student in 1989, she moved in with a rural Montana colony of the Apostolic United Brethren, a fundamentalist Mormon sect that still practices plural marriage as instructed by founder Joseph Smith in 1843. (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints [LDS] officially renounced polygamy in 1890.) 

Bennion would go on to publish book-length ethnographic studies of the AUB and the LeBaron fundamentalist colony in Mexico. Her fieldwork got her in trouble with LDS church leaders, who “disfellowshipped” her.

That's too bad. Some religious organizations support people questioning the imposition of the "heterosexual monogamy only" model.

Consanguinamory Between Siblings Prompts a Mother's Call

I always appreciate when readers of this blog refer me to something of relevance I might otherwise miss. A friend who wants to remain anonymous caught something interesting on yesterday's edition of the "The Jesus Christ Show." It's an call-in advice radio show in which the host, in character as a theologically conservative (if somewhat less conservative socially) Jesus Christ, does monologues and answers questions from callers. The calls range from religious questions to problems someone is having in their life.

The Jesus Christ show is interactive radio theater designed to teach people about themselves and the historical person of Jesus.

Nationally syndicated, the Jesus Christ show can be heard accross the US. The producer of the the Jesus Christ show, Neil Saavedra, likens the show to a history teacher dressing up like Abraham Lincoln or Benjamin Franklin to help people put flesh on the bones of history.

Saavedra is the person actually playing Jesus. The show is on the air for three hours, and the podcast I found is all "three hours," but since the podcast eliminates the advertisements, news, etc., it is under two hours. If you download it and go to the 1 hour 32 minute mark, shortly after that "Jesus" takes a call from a woman who has a problem with her on of her adult sons. He's moved away, become a father, and cut off contact with her. As it turns out, when her son and his sister were about 14/15 years old, like many other siblings that age, they experimented sexually with each other. The caller links her discovery of these past events (as her daughter told her) with her son ceasing communication. However, it would have been nice to hear from either her daughter or the son, as this woman didn't know what was going on at the time, and is only going to have limited knowledge of it now.

The caller states that she thinks her daughter was actually in love with her son. She also states that their grandmother knew, and that the grandmother didn't say anything to the caller because the daughter requested she not.

Saavedra takes the position that the behavior was seriously wrong without giving any practical or religious reason why. He even tries to get the caller to give some indication that something was seriously wrong with the family, asking if there had been alcohol abuse involved or that her husband had abused the children, but the caller shot those suggestions down. The caller asked why she was being "punished." At least "Jesus" called her out on that, although not for the right reasons. It is not punishment for your teenagers to get along that well. Maybe if people were more informed of the realities, they wouldn't assume they had done something wrong in raising their children.

It is entirely possible that these were two teens enjoying each other, perhaps one or both of them conflicted over whether or not it could be more. It happens every day in homes around the world, both in dysfunctional families and in families where things are good.

Unless the daughter indicates that her brother was abusive, the caller might be able to re-establish contact with him by sending him a letter stating that she understands what happened was normal and there's no reason for him to stay away.

Something to See in Santa Cruz

Will you be in near Santa Cruz, California around the end of this month? Wallace Baine at santacruzsentinel.com reports on Chicano Theatreworks presenting "The Hedonists," a play of interest to readers of this blog.

Don't look to Manuel Montez for tame theater.

The artistic director of Chicano Theatreworks is wading into dangerous waters with the new production of his own play "The Hedonists," which addresses themes of brother/sister incest. 

Good for him.

"The Hedonists" is a contemporary drama taking place over the course of three days set in an unnamed "coastal mid-sized California city" (hmmm ...). It is the story of Nico, a musician struggling to emerge from a crippling depression, who happens to be in sexual relationships with two women -- his exotic-dancer girlfriend Vivis and his sister Mara.

Sounds interesting.

"This piece has been germinating for years," said Montez about "The Hedonists." "It has to do with a part of my life in which I was dealing with depression, coupled with the factor that my oldest sister was stillborn and she is someone who has been absent in my life. And I have always thought about what her absence has meant in my life."

This isn't the first time I've heard of someone exploring this subject, citing an older siblings who did not survive.

Despite the theater company's name, Montez said that Chicano Theatreworks is not primarily concerned with theater about Chicano/Latino culture or heritage, like the artistic mission of San Juan Bautista's El Teatro Campesino.

"It's not that I don't honor that kind of work -- I do -- but my interest in Chicano Theatreworks has always been to promote and produce original material on identity-driven issues that are universal to the human experience. We are interested in the human soul, and no matter what ethnic or cultural background we come from, we all feel loss and abandonment. We all feel love, no matter what."

Great! The play will have a matinee on November 25 and runs Friday & Saturdays through December 1 with a Thursday performance on November 29. $15 general/$13 students & seniors. Details: manuelmontez.sc@gmail.com.

If you go, please report back on your experience.

Per Reader Demand, Dear Prudence Revisits ConsanguinamorousTwins

On the heels of Dear Margo's follow-up on fraternal heterosexual twins, Dear Prudence (written by Emily Yoffe) revisits, per reader demand, male twins in a consanguinamorous relationship. We wrote about them before here.

We did contact an attorney as you suggested, who told us that while incest is illegal in our state, our situation was unique and unless we paraded down the street engaging in public sex, there was no chance of prosecution.

Consulting an attorney is a good idea. As far as prosecution, all it takes is someone in law enforcement to get an itch, or a powerful family member who has a hateful heart. Supportive family can make all of the difference.

After that, talking about your column some more sparked a motivation to get the perspective of a professional marriage/family counselor.

If someone in this situation is going to seek counseling, they need one that does not come from a bigoted place.

Needing a Loveline From Dr. Drew

Television show host Dr. Drew again put a one-sided presentation of Genetic Sexual Attraction on the air. See this previous coverage for background on this. With awareness of GSA still barely emerging in the general public and with so few resources, it is a shame that such a limited view of GSA is presented, promoting a book and a subscription service that usurped an established, free discussion forum, narrowing the discussion both in availability and tone. Instead, as always, I recommend www.gsaforums.com for help, understanding, and meeting others involved. Notice that gsaforums.com is not about one, two, or three people who are trying to make a name for themselves but about and for people who have been touched by GSA, whether they are the person experiencing GSA is dealing with someone who is.



The reaction of one woman who is happily living in a spousal relationship with her brother?

That woman hasn't got a bloody clue on GSA, she didn't have a sexual relationship with him, and she only met him 4 times. She blames him totally, that was NO GSA relationship.

Here's what the hlntv.com site said to promote the show...

Genetic sexual attraction is the strange phenomenon of parents and children who develop an erotic attraction after years of separation. Julie DeNeen experienced this bizarre reality after being reunited with her long lost biological father. The attraction was mutual - her father had the same feelings. What followed was a deeply unhealthy and inappropriate relationship. The experience rocked Julie's marriage and her emotional life.

Of course GSA can be very problematic when it interferes with previously happy & healthy closed relationships or involves minors under the age of consent for the location of residence. But there are adults in lasting, healthy, happy relationships initiated through Genetic Sexual Attraction, and they don't need law enforcement to interfere, and they certainly don't need people involved in GSA discussions wagging their fingers.

From Julie's blog...

And now, it is time to break the F5 button while I watch to see what impact this has on my book.

If you or someone you know may be experiencing Genetic Sexual Attraction, please see this page. I'm not selling anything.This blog is a labor of love.

Katrina Yates is Still an Attention Hog

Katrina Yates still finds it necessary to blab to the media about the love lives of other consenting adults. We wrote about her media appearances before. Now thesun.co.uk has run an article rehashing her despair that other people may have found lover and happiness with each other. Jane Atkinson reports. The subheadline says this is "One of the most disturbing stories you'll ever read." I agree, but not for the same reason an editor chose those words.

Disgusted by the discovery, Katrina turned her daughter in to the police.

It is disturbing to me that someone would use unjust laws to interfere with the love life of consenting adults, especially when she's supposed to love and support one of them.

And last year, after 47-year-old Butler was jailed for admitting to sex with an adult relative, Nicola, 27, vowed to have nothing more to do with him.

But now Butler has been freed from prison and Nicola has vanished.

Well, yeah, if she risks having police arrest her for having consensual sex with someone she loves, disappearing can be a good idea.

Indiana Still Arresting Adults For Consensual Sex With Each Other

From wbiw.com comes this news from Bloomington, Indiana...

An aunt-nephew pair faces preliminary incest charges after being discovered in a pickup truck in a semi-state of undress Wednesday morning.

While on patrol, a Bloomington police officer came across 20-year-old Jesse Pedro, and 36-year-old Anniabell Scherill, sitting in a black GMC Sierra at about 2:20 a.m. in a parking lot on the west side of Cascades Park in Bloomington.

They are both adults. Why should they be arrested for having sex with each other? Who is the victim?

Kovach says, after questioning both admitted to having consensual sexual intercourse with one another.

That should be none of a police officer's business. DON'T TELL! Do not assist with an unjust prosecution.

She told the officer her and Pedro had been at their respective places of work prior to the incident and that she was undergoing marital issues at the time.

There is a chance, however remote, that her spouse knew and approved. But even if she was actually cheating, that shouldn't make it a criminal matter. This is a waste of law enforcement resources.

"Dear Margo" Howard Revisits Twincest

You may recall that the advice column "Dear Margo" ran a letter from someone suspicious that adult twin siblings, who clearly love and enjoy each other, were ... gasp ... making love with each other. The column has now run a follow-up.

"Concerned" wrote in...

I agree with you 99 percent of the time, but I think you gave only a partial answer concerning the possibly incestuous twins. You wrote, “And really, it is their business. Should your worst fears be the reality, it is no reflection on your family.” That was the recent assertion of a Hollywood director making a movie about incest: It’s just an alternative lifestyle!

It's not an alternative lifestyle. It is a normal life between people who love each other. If you saw a couple like that walking down the street, holding hands and sharing a quick peck on the lips, you'd either wouldn't notice or you'd think they were a lovely, sweet couple in love. (The Hollywood director he mentions is Nick Cassavetes.)

Yesterday I read an article by a psychiatrist (I’ve been looking like crazy so I could include the link, but I failed to find it) saying that incest is not just an alternative lifestyle.

Hmm, the letter writer seems very interested in this subject.

Good News in the US

I almost couldn't say it better than this from the Gay Marriage USA Facebook page:

Tonight was truly AWESOME! (1) The first president to support marriage equality, Barack Obama, was re-elected (2) We won marriage equality in Maine, Maryland and Washington (3) Minnesota rejected a proposed ban on same-sex marriage and (4) Tammy Baldwin became the first openly gay/lesbian person to win a US Senate position! We are moving FORWARD indeed.

I would only qualify that the limited same-gender freedom to marry, which is  what President Obama has publicly supported, is what won in most of the votes, although defeating the Minnesota constitutional amendment was also potentially good for poly people. It isn't really marriage equality unless every adult is free to marry any consenting adults (and have protections against discrimination) because equality "just for some" is not equality. There will be more freedom to marry in Maine, Maryland, and  Washington, but not full marriage equality.

It's definitely a victory and lots of progress! Congratulations to monogamist nonconsanguineous LBGT people! And congratulations to all Americans for progress!

Possible Case of GSA Brings Criminal Conviction in Samoa

In an outrageously intrusive and wasteful use of law enforcement resources, two adults are set to be criminally sentenced for having consensual sex with each other. Unumoe Esera reports at talamua.com...

Samoa’s Court House at Mulinu’u

A brother and sister appeared before the Supreme Court yesterday on 14 counts of incest. Justice Vui Clarence Nelson ordered a suppression order for all details pertaining to the identities of both defendants.

According to the summary of facts, the brother is 24 years old and the sister is 22. 

They are both adults! What is the problem?

The sexual relations between the siblings took place at the young woman’s house as she was raised with her twin sister by her mother’s brother at a different village and grew up there separately from her brother who was raised by her father’s brother.

Sounds like this might be Genetic Sexual Attraction.

The sexual relationship started 27 September and through several occasions and dates until 3rd of October.

 Seven days... fourteen counts of incest... you do the math. Good for them!

On the 27 and 28 September, the family members suspected that a relationship of a sexual nature was taking place between the two. They apologized to their relatives for their behaviour when they were finally discovered.

On 9 October, the young woman was questioned by police at the station and she pleaded guilty to the charge. Police questioned the young man 12 October and both pleaded guilty before the Court on the 23 October.

Why did their family rat them out? They should have been supportive, rather than jealous, envious, and hateful.

The maximum penalty for incest is seven years in prison. Both the defendants are first time offenders.

Justice Nelson, please set them free.

The pair will now be sentenced 19 November 2012.

There was no victim, until this unjust prosecution took place. Now there are two victims: the defendants. An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults, without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

It's Nothing New

How about a mention of literature, seeing as how you may need something to read while waiting in line to vote today? Adrian Murdoch plugged his father's new book, Gregorius: An Incestuous Saint in Medieval Europe and Beyond, which tracks the popularity of an interesting tale ...

The striking (and shocking) story of Gregorius, a child born of incest who later marries his mother, undertakes a massive penance, and eventually becomes both pope and saint, is a European theme. The apocryphal story probably came from medieval England or France, but is found in most European languages in all kinds of forms, from major literary works down to short folktales. In modern times the best known (but not the only) version is that by Thomas Mann, The Holy Sinner.

Murdoch linked to this site, which had more.

The story of the apocryphal pope and saint Gregorius was extremely popular throughout the middle ages and later in Europe and beyond. In a memorable narrative Gregorius is born from an incestuous relationship between a noble brother and sister, and is set out to sea with (unspecific) details of his origin. He is found and brought up by an abbot, but when revealed as a foundling leaves as a knight to seek his origins; he rescues his mother's land from attack, and marries her.  Consanguinamory has always been a theme in legends, mythology, folk takes, and fiction because it has always been a part of reality.

Denmark Party Calls For Decriminalizing Consanguinamory

From the Copenhagen Post website cphpost.dk comes this report by Ray Weaver about the position taken by the Enhedslisten politcal party to eliminate bigoted laws against consensual incest...

The recent case of a brother and sister in the city of Aarhus who said that they are in love and have a five-month-old child together has raised a national debate about sibling sex. The couple, who share the same father but have different mothers, face jail time for violating Denmark’s current statute prohibiting incest and inbreeding.

Why should their love be criminal? They should be free to be out and, if they want, to marry. Sounds like a possible case of Genetic Sexual Attraction. I don't think I'd heard about this couple before and I want to see if I can find any more information.

“It is not the government’s job to interfere in who should have children with whom,” party spokesperson Pernille Skipper told Politiken newspaper. “It is a grotesque approach to sex and families.”

Thank you! The article then takes a look at Discredited Argument #18...

US Can Advance Freedom to Marry on Tuesday

Tuesday is Election Day here in the US. Not only are we voting on the President, but every seat of our House of Representatives will be subject to election, as well as about a third of our Senate. Some states will have other important office and ballot measures. Of special interest to this blog is that the limited same-gender freedom to marry can advance with votes in four states.

It is important that people vote...

"Yes" on Question 1 in Maine

"For" Question 6 in Maryland

"No" on "Recognition of marriage solely between one man and one woman" in Minnesota

"Approve" Referendum 74 in Washington.

Not only will this help some same-gender couples living in those states, but it will sent an important message that we are moving towards nationwide full marriage equality sooner rather than later. None of these votes will provide full marriage equality, as there will still be many adults denied marriage rights in those states, still not allowed to marry the persons they love, but it is a step in the right direction.

The same can be said for President Obama, who has finally endorsed the limited same-gender freedom to marry. His opponent has been been regressive on this issue. We don't want to go back, we want to go FORWARD!

So if you are eligible, be sure to vote in those races, and vote for candidates for other offices who are friendliest to relationship rights for all adults.

Let's send a message that bigotry is dying out!

Another Case of Consanguinamory in Zimbabwe

In a tabloid-like news blurb that doesn't identify anyone, we get this...

A man in Zimbabwe has committed the worst crime possible, not once but twice.

Worst crime possible? You mean like genocide?

A resident of a village in Zimbabwe left his mother pregnant with his child for the second time and absconded.

Abandonment is a terrible thing to do, but hardly the worst crime possible.

The mother also allegedly fled the village, according to reports in the British media.

Ah.

About four years ago, the mother and son were fined by their village church after the council learnt that the woman was left pregnant by her son.

That's the real crime... fining people for things that are no business of anyone else.

At that time, the woman had miscarried when she was four months pregnant. Now, history has repeated itself.

The villagers were outraged on learning about the incestuous relationship which has been on since 2008. The woman's husband passed away after a long illness.

If the villagers would mind their own business rather than interfering the private lives of other people, nobody would feel a need to leave.

Now villagers want to hunt and get the duo back to the village and subject them to harsh punishment to send out a signal to the entire community that such incestuous relationships would not be tolerated.

Why? What's the problem? Why don't they focus on their own lives, instead, instead of grabbing pitchforks and torches because two people love each other?

Promotional Material for Film Notes "Unintentional" Incest

There's a film getting a theatrical run that caught my eye. "Tragedy of a Mother and Son" was written and directed by Romane Simon. I found this information about it at melodika.net...

According to Romane Simon, a multi-talented individual who is now living his dream to be part of show business, "Tragedy" deals with what has here-to-fore been a subject rarely approached in films, that of incest, although it occurs unintentionally by the film characters.  However, Romane quickly adds, "While incest is explored in 'Tragedy,' the film really centers on one of the major problems of the 21st Century, the growing numbers of young adults who are not qualified to be parents.

From the information I found, I have no idea if "unintentional" is referring to a Genetic Sexual Attraction situation or something else, nor did I find any indication about whether the characters involved are mother and son or other characters. If anyone knows more, please comment.

Here's a trailer. You can tell that this is not a motion picture that had a large budget, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be an interesting production.


Here's a Facebook page and the IMDb page.