Frequently Asked Question: Can Siblings Marry?

The following is based on my understanding. I’m not at attorney and this should not be considered legal advice.

Can siblings marry?

I’m not aware of any government that will currently and knowingly marry full-blood siblings or recognize a marriage of full-blood siblings; rather, if it was discovered by the authorities after an official marriage was formed that the spouses were, in fact, siblings, the marriage would be dissolved and considered invalid. If the spouses knew they were siblings when they married, they would be subject to prosecution. If they discovered the genetic relationship after getting married, they would have to file for an annulment or dissolution or risk prosecution.

Where sibling consanguinamory isn’t still banned by law, siblings can have a wedding ceremony and live the married life, although under discrimination, as their government will not recognize their marriage and they will not get treated equally. Consulting a family law or estate attorney might be worth it for siblings who want some of the legal aspects of marriage. DO explain to the attorney of you genetic/legal relation as siblings. DO NOT tell the attorney you are lovers. Explain you would prefer each other to essentially be next of kin and reciprocal beneficiaries over and above anyone else (like your parents or another sibling); you want as much of a personal-social partnership as the law allows. 

Intergenerational Relationships Can Work

Are you in or considering an intergenerational relationship? Are you against such relationships?

By “intergenerational,” I’m talking about ADULT generations. I’m talking about CONSENTING ADULTS. I just wanted to get that out of the way. I’m not talking about adults preying on minors, pedophilia, etc.

The Bad

Although not illegal, nonconsanguineous relationships between adults with a sizable age difference do face prejudice and discrimination. Stereotypical assumptions, expressed as though they are automatically negative, are made about both the younger and older people involved in such relationships.

The older person, depending on age/gender, is often said to be:

What Genealogists Know

With each previous generation you trace back, the maximum possible number of your genetic ancestors doubles. You can have 2 parents, up to 4 grandparents, up to 8 great-grandparents, up to 16 great-great-grandparents, etc.

On average, there are about four generations per century. For people born in the year 2000, their 8 great-great-grandparents were probably born around 1900. Sometime around 1800 their great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents were born (there may be up to 128 of them). About 29 generations back, or roughly around the time of 1250-1300, the total number of your possible ancestors for that generation equals or exceeds the total population of the planet, which was about 500 million people.

What gives? Well, first of all, if all 500 million of those people were your ancestors, they would also be the ancestors of all of the rest of us, too.

Secondly, you probably don’t have every person alive back then as your ancestor. There wasn’t a lot of interracial or intercultural parenting going on back then. People were more isolated, more people lived in rural countrysides rather than dense urban areas, and people were not nearly as geographically or socially mobile as they are today. It was very common for a person to be born in and to die in the the same village or town, having lived all of her or his life there.

This means that for many, many, many, many generations, there was a lot of what most people would call today “inbreeding.” If your spouse wasn’t your first cousin, your spouse was likely a second or third cousin, or a second cousin-once removed, or even your double-cousin, etc. And as I’ve noted before, even if they weren’t marrying them, people were having children with siblings, aunts or uncles, etc. (Even if not having children together, what do you think went on, given that pubescent teens, like most children, were usually sharing a bedroom?) Not only did these things not destroy humanity, but in Europe, the Renaissance was birthed in these conditions.

Coming back to around 1800, very few people are likely to have 128 great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents, just like very few of those people in 1800 had 128 of them in 1600. Because chances are, some of your recent ancestors were cousins, if not closer. If you marry your first cousin, you have no more than six genetic grandparents between you, instead of eight. If your parents are first cousins, you have six great-grandparents instead of eight.

If “inbreeding” was as detrimental as common misconception says, none of us would be here.

 

Labor Day Weekend

In the US, the first Monday in September is the Labor Day holiday, making this weekend an extended holiday weekend.

Friends and family often go to the beach or get together.

Although most schools now start before Labor Day, it’s still considered the cultural “end of summer,” although the meteorological end of summer always falls about September 21.

In the northern hemisphere, warm temperatures, beachgoing or poolside socializing, and perhaps some alcohol make it a festive time. 

If you have any special plans or end up having any special experiences with family or friends, tell us about it below in the comments. You can stay anonymous. For some of you, this will be a chance to make a move to initiate something you’ve wanted to do.

Be safe and have fun!

We Keep Speaking Up For All

This blog has been here for a long time now.

Our civil rights and human rights movement continues. This blog is just a small part of a growing movement.

Don’t let pessimism, bigotry, or temporary setbacks deter you.

Let’s keep speaking up for, and ushering in, rights for all.

Every adult should be free to share love, sex, kink, residence, and marriage, and any of those without the other, with any and all consenting adults.

I can’t always spend as much time blogging as I’d like. I’m on Twitter, Facebook, Quora, and Reddit daily. You can also message me (Keith) on Wire at fullmarriageequality and email fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com

I rotate past-but-still-relevant posts up to the top for newer visitors. If you usually read this blog on a feed, you might only see new posts, not previous posts when they’re bumped up. But as you’ll see if you visit the blog proper, it’s still active. Traffic to the blog continues to be high, and as always, I don’t monetize that; this blog is here as a labor of love.

People pass.

Babies are born.

Children grow up.

Life continues.

So does our worthy cause.

When you comment on this blog, be sure follow the instructions or your comment won’t get published or I might only publish it as a new, edited post, which can take me a while to get around to doing.

Why Attempt to Suppress Affection?

Why would anyone waste time, energy, and other resources attempting to suppress affection or recreation between mutually consenting people?

Do you have a personal dislike of some forms of sex, or certain people? So what? Why do you even feel a need to tell people sharing love or play that you disapprove, let alone try to censor or criminalize them?

Who are they harming? Who are they endangering?

Life is short. Don’t waste yours trying to stop other people from being affectionate or playful with each other.

Don’t fight against equality; that’s a threat to freedom.

Rather, show solidarity and support the rights of all. You’ll find it makes you a better person overall. Love is better than hate.

Consulting An Attorney If You Can't Legally Marry

If we had relationship rights for all, including full marriage equality, so many of the troubles facing so many people would go away.

But we don't have that yet.

So people in certain relationships face discrimination ranging from employment and housing discrimination, to denial of the freedom to marry, to imprisonment.

In the US, the people who help you with matters of law are called lawyers or attorneys. Other terms might be used in other countries.

In the US, you still can't be legally married to more than one person at the same time, and you can't be married to someone who is "too closely" related to you. (How close is "too close" varies by state.)

If you are in such a relationship, you can still have certain things similar to being legally married, such as:

• shared financial accounts and investments
• shared purchases, ownerships, and sales
• sharing a residence
• beneficiary or reciprocal beneficiary status
• hospital visitation
• being able to make decisions for one another should one of you become unable to communicate or dementia, memory loss, or mental illness necessitates someone else make decisions on your behalf

Without being legally married and without having paperwork that says otherwise, partners are not treated as next of kin or survivors; a biological or legal relative, even if estranged, indifferent or hostile will usually be considered next of kin, be able to make medical decisions, exclude partners from hospital visits, and claim ownership of the person's estate when they pass.

It might be worth it for you and your partner(s) to consult a family law and/or estate planning attorney. A good attorney can come up with the paperwork that will allow you to be responsible for each other, before and above anyone else.

DO NOT tell the attorney, no matter how kind and trustworthy, you’re lovers. They don’t need to know that and it can only cause problems. Rather, explain what it is you want, which might involve joint ownership or control of something financial, “power of attorney,” "medical power of attorney," reciprocal beneficiaries, and whatever else. Explain you want to be able to make decisions for each other and visit each other, before/above anyone else. You want to be considered primary next of kin to each other, you want custody of your minor children to go to each other in the event one of you passes - if that's what you want.

Over the years, some partners have used adoption, with one partner legally adopting their adult partner(s).

What options work best for you and your partner(s) can be determined if you hire a good lawyer. Lawyers aren't cheap, but depending on what you want, their help can be worth it.

Keep in mind that in situations in which genetic relatives were raised apart, they are often not considered family for things like inheritance, but are still treated like family when it comes to prosecuting them for being together. That is just one example of why they might need the help of an attorney and yet shouldn't tell the attorney if they are lovers.

Sibling Rivalry or Sibling Revelry

I used to be active on a certain Big Online Portal's question-and-answer feature, answering questions related to full marriage equality and relationship rights for all adults, and occasionally questions about teenager sexuality. I still read what goes on there. Every once in a while, someone will ask a question like this...

I caught my siblings making out, what should i do?

I caught my 16 year old sister and 17 year old brother making out, I don't really know what to do. To be honest I'm very shocked, and a bit disoriented thinking about it. They're both pretty attractive, I don't see why they would shack up with each other when they could go out and get people who... aren't related to them.

I want to tell ma and pa, but they begged me not to, don't really know how to approach this situation, Or if I should just respect their privacy. I guess I'm just worried about their mental health, but I guess that's pretty unfair of me to assume something is wrong with them.

What do i do?

For all we know, the teens "making out" with each other are both half-siblings to the asker, and unrelated to each other, or they could be stepsiblings or adopted siblings. Or, they could be half or full-blood siblings to each other. (It might have even been a reunion Genetic Sexual Attraction situation if the siblings have not been raised together.) Whatever their genetic, legal, and social relation, it isn't uncommon for siblings as close in age as they are, especially in their teens, to have such affection between them.

Also, we don't know where they live, and thus whether or not they live somewhere where it is legal for a 17-year-old and 16-year-old to have sex with each other.

Most therapists consider such sibling behavior, absent any coercion, force, or intimidation, to be mutual experimentation or exploration.

In general, however, my advice to someone in the asker's position is to:

1. Confirm this is a voluntary activity. If observing wasn't enough, ask the younger/smaller/less assertive/more needy sibling if they are being pressured, intimidated, coerced, or forced in any way.

2. Respect their privacy. Start by reminding them it's a good idea to be discreet and promise you will knock.

3. Protect and support them.

4. If needed, assist them in accessing contraception and health care.

(See this extensive advice at The Final Manifesto for friends and family of consanguinamorous siblings.)

Talk It Over and Discuss the Possibilities

People come to this blog because they are having feelings or experiences that are often met with prejudice elsewhere, or they know someone who is having such feelings or experiences. If you're not sure your partner(s) would accept your feelings or fantasies, the information below might help. Maybe you can show this to them and see if they'll agree to discussions.

Clinical psychologist David J. Ley, Ph.D. wrote something very helpful at psychologytoday.com titled "3 Ways to Meet Your Partner’s Sexual Ideals and Why You Should"...

Viewing your partner’s sexual ideals and needs as important and valuable protects and enhances your relationship. Even if you can’t meet your partners’ sexual ideals, sexual communion mitigates the degree to which that mismatch negatively impacts your relationship.

Ley goes on to describe how to start to use this. Although Ley is writing about partners, this also might be helpful for people who are not yet partners, such as if there is someone who is in your life as a family member or friend but you want to add a sexual bond to your relationship.

Nonjudgmental Listening. The best, first, and most important way that partners can express sexual communion with each other is by communicating about their sexual likes and dislikes, in a manner that involves respect and acceptance. Acknowledging and valuing your partners’ sexual preferences is a critical and meaningful way to let them feel valued and accepted as a person, within your relationship. Have a conversation (actually, it’s best to have lots of little conversations as opposed to just one big one) with your partner about their sexual needs and experiences. Try to make them feel like you are interested and curious about their sexuality. Believe it or not, this is as valuable in long-term relationships with decades of history as it is in fresher relationships. Most people never tell anyone, even their life partners, about their sexual fantasies and interests, for fear of rejection and judgment.

Emphasis mine. Listening is so important. Getting your partner(s) to open up and share with you is the way to grow and deepen the relationship.

Tale as Old as Time

This blog is about relationship rights for all adults, especially the right to marry any and all consenting adults. It is not about criticizing nor promoting any philosophy towards religion, spiritual considerations, superstitions, the paranormal or supernatural, any religious text or writings/traditions/beliefs/practices/systems/organizations considered sacred, inspired, of authoritative by some, nor skepticism when it comes to such things.

There are both allies and opponents of relationship rights and full marriage equality in just about every religion and among those who claim no religion, and I welcome allies no matter what tradition, if any, they prefer or reject.

With that out of the way…

Considering the Bible as literature, which anyone can do whether they are a devout Christian, a Deist, a Hindu, an Atheist, or an Antitheist or take some other path, one can see that the Bible implies, outright portrays, and further addresses consanguineous sex.

Frequently, someone will ask “Where did Cain get his wife?” or “Did Adam and Eve’s children have sex with each other?” or some variation. Whether someone considers this speculation about fanciful myths or actual history is irrelevant to analyzing what the text itself says.

Frequently Asked Question: Why Do Polyamorists Get Married?

The question is asked as though the person asking assumes that actual monogamy is a requirement for marriage. It isn’t in most places, even though current marriage laws will only allow monogamy in the legal sense.

For the purpose of this question and answer, I will include any form of honest nonmonogamy, or any label applied, such as open relationship, open marriage, swinging, swapping, polyamory, polyfidelity and polygamy.

Why do swingers get married?

Why do people in open relationships get married?

Why do polyamorous people get married?

The short answer is: For the same reason most other people get married. They want to get married, they think it is the best thing to do at that time in life, or they’re pressured.

Is It OK?

A frequently asked question is some variation of "It is OK for me to date my [fill in the blank]?"

It is sometimes asked as "Is it wrong for me to have sex with...?"

The blank is filled with a personal relation, as opposed to a professional contact. A personal relation would be a cousin, stepbrother, sister-in-law, aunt, sibling, or someone else along those lines.

Here is the easiest way to determine if it is OK.

Ask yourself these three questions:

1) Are we both/all capable of consenting?

2) Do we both/all consent to this?

3) Is it compatible with any existing agreement with another or others that we each want to keep intact?

If the answer to all three questions is YES, then it is acceptable or OK. Some people might disapprove, but they don’t have to date or have sex with you or anyone else they don’t want to, and their opinion shouldn’t rule over your love life.

Unfortunately, in many places, there are still unjust laws discriminating against consenting adults for having sex, such as laws against gay sex or consanguineous sex or sex between certain steprelations. So while it is OK on the ethical sense, it might not be legal where you are, at least not yet. That's one of the reasons we are here to speak up for the rights of all adults. Nobody should be criminalized for sharing affection with other consenting adults.