Gypsy Brides US

From Sarah, a Brit at unrealitytv.co.uk, came this coverage of a a show called "Gypsy Brides US."

According to The Sun’s TV Biz, Gypsy Brides US – which debuts on Discovery Real Time as of Wednesdays, May 9 at 10pm – will feature incest, girlfights, boob flashing and general mayhem.

In one scene in the show’s premiere, we’re to see the maid-of-honour at a wedding grappling another woman to the ground and generally setting about her.

A show insider said, “This series is set to be more brash and more flamboyant than ever.

“As always, it will be a colourful, outrageous show but it goes further than usual, including storylines about incest and a number of punch-ups in between the usual celebrations and parties the gypsies love to hold…”

Of course, we know that "incest" in journalist parlance can mean third cousins once removed. I will be interested in what it actually means in this case.

It's Complicated: Apparent GSA Case in California

On this blog, we make a distinction between sex, which involves consenting participants, and abuse. We also call on journalists to give us enough information. Some news organizations err on the side of providing too little information so as to prevent abuse victims from being identified, so they won't name the alleged or convicted crime perpetrator's name or picture. Not so in this case, and I have to wonder if napavalleyregister.com would post the name and picture of a father accused of abusing his 16-year-old daughter? Check out this article by Kerana Todoro, "Authorities charge woman with incest."

Mistie Atkinson

A 32-year-old woman faces charges of incest and other allegations in Napa County Superior Court after she was arrested on suspicion of having sex with her 16-year-old biological son, according to court documents.

If this was sexual assault or statutory rape, charge her with those crimes. Instead...

She was charged on March 2 in Napa with incest, oral copulation of someone under the age of 18, contact with a minor for a sexual offense, and “sending harmful matter” to her biological son, according to the complaint.

The "harmful matter" it turns out, was images of her. Hardly harmful. "Incest" should not be a crime. Sexual assault, rape, or molestation should be, regardless of the relation of the perpetrator and the victim. as i've said before, I would support enhancements in sentencing for those crimes for guardians. She wasn't a guardian.

“Atkinson and the victim are aware they are biological mother and son,” police state in the complaint.

The way the article was written, with repeated references to their biological connection, made me wonder...

The father of the boy, who has full custody, has obtained a restraining order against Atkinson, court records show.

If she did not raise the boy, this could very well be a matter of Genetic Sexual Attraction. If the boy's father is his genetic father, then I have some questions. She is 32. That means she was pregnant with this biological son when she was 15 or so. How old is the biological father? I understand the age of consent in California is 18. While this blog argues against laws against adult consensual sex, I do not generally argue for changes to age of consent laws. Still, I have to wonder... why was it apparently OK (since he was given custody) for the father to have sex with a 15-year-old 16-17 years ago? One of the questions I have is to why she didn't have custody. Did she willingly give up custody? Were her rights taken away from her?


The article doesn't make it clear what the nature of the relationship between the mother and son, other than they have proof it is sexual. Did they have any contact while he was growing up?

There are16-year-old  boys who dream of this sort of thing, but that shouldn't matter. What matters is how the 16-year-old in this case feels. Under California law, he can't consent to (unmarried, anyway) sex with 32-year-old. As I said, I don't generally argue for changes to age of consent laws because the line has to be drawn somewhere. However, I don't think they should always be applied. Just as I do with cheating and GSA, I give special consideration here. Has she, as an adult, ever done this with any other 16-year-old? Is she likely to do this with anyone else? Is she generally law-abiding? Did she coerce him? (Some would say sending the images to a 16-year-old boy, with the raging hormones and all, would be coercion enough.)

Even if he pursued her, I do believe that it is the older person's responsibility to say "no" or "not yet." If he was 18, of if this was somewhere else where the age of consent is 16, I would say the law should not be involved in this at all. But he's 16 in California. The law needs to make sure they don't have a predator on their hands. If they don't. the law should go easy on her. Ten years down the line, they could be a happy a couple, for all we know now.

Turkish Authorities Invalidate a Marriage

What century is this again? There are many different examples of consenting adults being denied their freedom to marry. In Turkey, family members and authorities are trying to break apart a couple after they were officially married, according to this report at todayszaman.com...

A 30-year-old İstanbul man has married his niece, sparking a criminal investigation after the bride's family filed a complaint against local officials who officiated the wedding, Turkish media reported on Sunday.

The man, identified only as F.K., married 24-year-old university student Ş.K. in September of 2010 in Bağcılar, İstanbul, a report in the Habertürk daily said.

They are adults. What is the problem?

Ş.K.'s parents found out by chance that their daughter had actually married four months ago, but the young woman refused to tell them who her husband was when confronted and the couple disappeared the next day.

The family had learned about their daughter's marriage to her uncle after inquiring about the marriage at the civil registry office. Shocked, the parents demanded the marriage be annulled and filed a complaint against officials who officiated the wedding.

Who are the married couple harming?

The prosecutor's office has ruled that the marriage is invalid despite the official ceremony and have also launched a probe against the chief official at the Bağcılar Civil Registry Office and the Bağcılar Municipality official who officiated the wedding for allowing the marriage to take place.

What a waste of public resources. Really. There are people out there assaulting other people. Why not worry about that? No indication is given exactly how the uncle and niece are related, as in by blood or marriage or through mother or father. Regardless, an adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults.

Another Reason the German Law Against Consanguinamory is a Sham

Michael Owens, prompted by the recent court decision we wrote about here, writes "Incest laws in Germany may be a bit outdated." Just a bit.

Patrick appealed to the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) arguing that his basic rights were violated and that Germany should not have been allowed to punish two consenting adults for their sexual activities. But the ECHR ruled that Germany could punish them for incest, and that Germany's laws against incest were also permissible.

But the reasoning behind the decision by the court has perhaps asked more questions than it has answered. 

It sure did.

Germany's law on incest is quite peculiar. If a woman would like to be artificially inseminated by the sperm of a lineal relative, i.e. by a brother or her father, this is allowed. But if she becomes pregnant through coitus (sexual intercourse), this is outlawed. The law is actually a law against sex between two consenting adults.

Interesting. I wasn't aware of the artificial insemination law. That shows the law against consensual sex to be even more of a sham. There is no reason to criminalize consanguinamory or deny consanguinamorous adults the freedom to marry.

 

Polyandrous Polyamory

Martin wrote at enlightenedmale2000.com about bisexuality and polyamory.

The focus here is to explore the possibility of a couple in a traditional relationship or marriage to bring another male into the relationship to address the man’s bisexuality. Many would say this is tantamount to having one’s cake and eating it too, but can it be a cake his wife can share?

In today’s world there are countless husbands satisfying their biological urges by secretly hooking-up with other like-minded men, or by developing special friendships. In other words he’s leading a double life that his wife usually doesn’t know about. Often she finds out and is devastated. He may have wanted to talk to her earlier, but he fears her reaction. If he’s found out, has actually acted on his urges, the resulting circumstances are much more difficult for both the wife and the husband.

But what if things were different? What if, early on during the dating process, the man had brought up the fact he is bisexual, that he would like to have a male friend when he gets married? Or perhaps he would like to keep the special friend he already has. What if his fiance finds she’s intrigued, even visualizes certain possibilities? A polyamorous relationship might be incubating.

He goes on to write about the necessary conditions for the development of such a relationship, then talks about some the practical advantages.

Just for the record, not all polyamorous people are bisexual (some poly people are strictly gay, others strictly hetero, others barely homoflexible or heteroflexible,) nor are all bisexuals polyamorous. That being said, many bisexual do find fulfillment in polymory, and many poly people who thought they were strictly heterosexual have discovered otherwise because of polyamory.

Polygamy is Traditional Marriage in Various Cultures

Fatima Asmal-Motala had an article "A History of Multiple Bedmates," but as we know, polygamy is almost always about much more than sharing a bed. There are a few other things I don't think are entirely accurate in this article, too.

Although "polygamy" (also known as polygyny) is generally understood to mean a marriage in which a man has multiple wives, the term has broader scope. In fact, it refers to three types of practices: polyandry, in which a woman has multiple simultaneous husbands; polygamy, which entails a man having multiple simultaneous wives; and group marriage, where the family unit consists of multiple husbands and wives.

Polygyny is a form of polygamy just like polyandry is. But the writer left out marriages consisting of three or more people of the same gender.

Out of 1231 societies noted in the Ethnographic Atlas Codebook -- derived from American anthropologist George P Murdock's Ethnographic Atlas, which recorded the marital composition of societies from 1960 to 1980 -- 186 of those societies were monogamous, 453 had occasional polygamy, 588 had more frequent polygamy and four had polyandry.

So we can see again that the claim that the only relationship that is marriage is a monogamous, heterosexual marriage just doesn't hold up. We should remember, too, that many societies that say that monogamy is the norm actually have much serial monogamy and "monogamous" marriages in which others are involved (ongoing or short-term threesomes, swinging, swapping, affairs, cheating, etc.)

We Get Letters

Victor, not to be confused with another Victor who commented on this blog a while back, commented on a recent entry here about the unjust prosecution of Patrick Stuebing…

Are you plain stupid or just dumb.

Perhaps I am an idiot. However, I know enough to put a question mark at the end of questions.

Didn't you read that two of their children are disabled.

Yes, I read that. He wasn’t prosecuted for having disabled children. He was prosecuted for having consensual sex. They have other children together, too.

Victor appears to be attempting to make Discredited Argument #18. Many people have two disabled children. Has Victor ever heard of reproductive rights? (Notice the question mark.) Does Victor have any proof that the disabilities have anything to do with the genetic relation of Patrick and his lover, or that if Patrick were to have children with someone else, none of them would be disabled, or if his lover were to have children with someone else, none of them would be disabled? The answer to all of those questions is no.

Uh, Why Is It Illegal Again?

Dr. Paul Behrens who teaches law at the University of Leicester, asked a question I've asked and answered, "Why is incest a crime?" He points to the travesty of the recent decision by the so-called European Court of Human Rights.

In Germany, Hans-Christian Ströbele, a prominent voice in the Green party, was particularly outspoken: in his view, the criminalisation of incest is a remnant from the bad old days, when adultery and homosexuality were still punishable. Even members of the German government are critical about the current law: the German Minister of Justice, Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger, talked publicly about the insufficiency of criminal law where incest is concerned, and  has suggested preventative measures and therapy.


The Conservative parties on the other hand left no doubt about their position on the matter, with the Bavarian Minister of the Interior (Hermann) reportedly saying that the health of the population must be protected. The ‘health of the population’?


Hermann, presumably, refers to the danger of genetic diseases which might be passed on to children of incestuous couples.

 But of course, Hermann must not have read my answer to Discredited Argument #18.  Dr. Behrens effectively counters as well...

But the law against incest is not a law against procreation: siblings who are not able to have children, are still banned from having sex. And there are other, more fundamental, issues. Is there a duty to society to create only healthy offspring? Would that not mean that criminal law should prohibit intercourse even among non-related partners where there is a danger of passing on hereditary diseases? Few people, it seems, would be prepared to go as far as that.

He goes on to address Discredited Argument #19...

Then there is the damage that incest may cause to the structure of the family unit, and its potential danger to trust within the family. But the law against incest is not a law against disturbances to family life. It did apply to Stübing, even though in his case, the family unit had never existed. The partners met as virtual strangers; and the relationship was one between consenting adults.

He notes...

The Strasbourg judgment, it seems, will not be the end of the matter – nor should it be. One thing must be understood – the judges at the European court did not say that the State must have a law against incest; that was not the question. They merely confirmed that a State was not prevented from having one.

Which makes me wonder... what other consensual, private, adult relationships can be outlawed? There is no reason to ban or discriminate against consanguinamory (consensual incest); the excuses people make for their bigotry and prejudice tend not to be be consistently applied to other relationships, and are shams. These laws hurt people. They are hurting people right now. No law should stand in the way of love between consenting adults.

Playwright Examines Consanguinamory

Shruthi Mathews interviewed playwright Nandini Krishnan on her play "Baby," which examines "the psychological motivations underpinning a father-daughter relationship that crosses over from filial affection to erotic love."

The Hindu Chennai-based freelance writer Nandini Krishnan. Photo: S.S. Kumar

What prompted you to write a play about incest?

 Well, the idea struck me a long time ago. Someone commissioned an article on incest, so I began to research the topic. I spoke to psychiatrists as well as people who were participants in incestuous relationships. However, I focussed more on consensual as opposed to abusive incestuous relationships. Although incestuous abuse, especially of children, does occur, I was surprised and also intrigued by the many instances of incest that took place between consenting adults. For people like you and me, it's quite difficult to comprehend why someone would want to have a sexual relationship with a close family member — we generally find the idea repellent — and this made me very interested in investigating why consensual incest occurs, and in what contexts

I've covered "why" before, of course. Without using the terminology, the interview touches upon Genetic Sexual Attraction in passing.

It's a great interview. Read the rest. I would definitely be interested in seeing the play. Thank you to Krishnan for writing the play and doing a great interview, and thank you to Mathews for doing the interview.

21 Common Arguments Against Full Marriage Equality

... and why they don't past the smell test. If you haven't read through my Discredited Arguments page before, or if it has been a while since you read it, read it here. I have yet to hear a good reason why an adult shouldn't be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults.

Consenting Adults Have a Right to Polygamy

An adult, regardless of gender or sexual orientation, should be free to marry any consenting adults. In a discussion forum, WhipperSnapper 88, from Ohio, asked in a discussion forum what's wrong with polygamy.

So What is so wrong with polygamy so long as it is between consenting adults? What about it warrants it to be considered a crime? Are you aware that many polygamist relationships have a higher survival rate then monogamous ones? Polygamy is also found amongst many figuers in the Bible.


Is there anybody who approves of gay marriage but opposes polygamy? If so, how did you arrive at that conclusion?


What is so wrong with polygamy and who does it hurt?

LuminousTruth...

The Inconsistency of Banning the Polygamous Freedom to Marry

Tshepo Sepora supports the polygamous freedom to marry, at least from a polygynous perspective...

But really guys, I still firmly stand by what I said last week. I don’t think it makes sense for the government to make polygamy illegal but nothing really binding is done to men who have tens of kids all over the country with different women. I mean, polygamy actually enables a man to marry the women he loves and raise and care for all his kids all under one roof.


And what harm is actually done by such marriages, if anything all I see is goodness! For one, certain diseases could be curbed, and instead of a man cheating on his wife behind closed doors, he just may tell the wife openly that he’s thinking of bringing another woman in to the marriage and since this will be done rightfully disgraceful acts of cheating and spreading HIV might just be reduced.

As I've written may times, it is ridiculous that it is illegal to be married to more than one person at a time while it is legal to have children with them, and quite often, have sex with them or even live with them. Why ban their marriages? Full marriage equality will increase stability, reduce cheating, and reduce divorce.

Articulating a Polyamorous Marriage

Wendy interviewed a polyamorous friend with some great questions I wish would be presented and answered this well to a wide audience more often. David is marred to a woman.

Do you tend to enter into a new romantic relationship together with your wife, or do you each have separate partners outside of the relationship? If separate, how much interaction do you have with each other’s partners, if any?

It has certainly been both. We’ve dated the same person, we’ve dated other poly couples, and we’ve both dated individuals completely independent of each other. When dating separate partners outside of the relationship, there has usually been a fair bit of interaction with the other partner. My wife has dated some men who were actually far closer friends with me before they started dating then they were with her. That hasn’t always been the case and there have also been outside partners who, usually because of time and/or distance, don’t have that much interaction. Basically my wife and I are best friends, so even in situations where, for example, I’m dating someone where there isn’t mutual attraction between them and my wife, they still interact with her as much as they would if I was room-mates with my best friend. The same has gone the other way as well.

This is the way it is for them. With other poly couples, things could be different.

Elijah and Milo Peters Are GC

Back 2 Stonewall, which describes itself as an "independent LGBT News, Media, Music, and Activism" website, had a blurb by Peter Thomas and poll on Elijah and Milo Peters. What makes these gay twins from the Czech Republic newsworthy?  Because the 22 year-olds appear in successful adult media together and have a consanguinamorous relationship.

“My brother is my boyfriend, and I am his boyfriend,” one of the twins tells Salon.com in a phone interview from Prague. The writer notes that the two sound so much a like, it’s impossible to tell who’s who. “He is my lifeblood, and he is my only love.”

Clearly there is something fundamentally tempting about the twins; after all many would state ‘what’s the only thing better than having a hot man infront of you? Having two hot men infront of you!’ And Bel Ami have certainly reaped the benefits of the world’s desire to see this twincest in action: traffic to the company’s website has doubled since the twins first started appearing in 2009.

So instead of GQ, I'd call them "GC," or "gay & consanguinamorous." There is a poll at the link about consanguinamory, as well as some pictures of the pair from the waist up that anyone attracted to men might enjoy.


Is there any reason why there should be any law against this, or denying them marriage, if they want to get married? So far, I haven't heard a good one.

Marriage Traditions

I found something I found interesting, even if the translation needs to be smoothed out. It is called "Unique Marriage Styles of Tujia in Ancient Times." However, I don't think the styles are so unique.

It refers to "Group Marriage, Even Marriage, and Monogamy."

The Jade Emperor was very angry and made it be raining heavely. Most people died of the flood, but both brother Busuo and sister Yongnee escaped the disaster because they lived together in a sleeve. Later, Shiyitujie, the god of marriage, persuaded them to get married, and then a mass of flesh was born.

 Also...

She lived in a cave with two eagles every day. She was pregnant , and finally gave the birth of her son Tan Tianfei and her daughter Tan zhilan. Then, these two brother and sister got married and had eight children. 

Referring to "free" marriage...

In addition, it is also permitted for Tujia boy to get married with his adopted-sister. “Adopted -Sister Song” is recorded, “Adopted-sister, Orange tree’s leaf, Brother plays with adopted-sister at day, and sleep with adopted-sister at night.”

Ruled by the King Tusi during the Yuan, Ming and Qing Dynasty, monogamy was popular in Zhangjiajie region, but polygamy was also existed in rich family.

It goes on with some other marriage traditions. It is a reminder the idea that all marriages must be heterosexual, monogamous, and nonconsanguineous that is new.

LGBTP Again

As I've written before, LGBT people and polyamorous people are natural allies (and some people are both LGBT and poly). Here's just one example of a polyamory thread at a gay discussion forum.

JRiver, a bi man in an open gay relationship, kicked off the discussion...

Reconsidering Polygamy

Percy Zvomuya says "Polygamy: It Ain't What it Used to Be." He reflects on having written an anti-polygamy column, noting his thinking has since changed.

A few of the women I spoke to didn't think polygamy was a particularly bad idea. One said she wouldn't mind being wife number two, even number three. It wasn't an economic decision for her: the stylish woman is well to do; she lives in a townhouse and drives around in a Mini Cooper.

In the last week, when news came out that President Jacob Zuma was set to marry his girlfriend, some of South Africa's twitterati defended polygamy; some attacked it. @KingNovaMiu, who describes herself as a feminist, said: "I would get bored of my husband. Many women around the house will keep that from happening. And I'd have my own life. I'm that kind of feminist. I'm down for free will. If the Pres. was practising ukuthwala [the abduction of young girls to be brides] then it would be an issue". And I must say from casual conversations I have had in the recent past, there is a gathering counter current to the prevailing simplistic "polygamy is oppressive" debate.

With gender equality, including the right to marry multiple spouses regardless of gender, along with the freedom to NOT marry, equal access to divorce, and protections against domestic violence, there is nothing wrong with polygamy. Every adult should be free to share marriage with any consenting adults.

Another News Blurb Fails to Note Unjust Prosecution

Once again, we get too little information from law enforcement and journalists. This news blurb's headline is "Man sentenced to jail for incest." The news is from Lockport, New York. We know consensual incest (consanguinamory) is still illegal in New York, and we know that some US states sill prosecute consenting adults for consanguinamory.

A 21-year-old Lockport man was sentenced today for incest.
James David Knoop was sentenced to 6 months in jail for incest in the 3rd degree.  He was also sentenced to 10 years supervision.

No mention is made of whether this was assault or consensual sex, both of which can be defined under the term "incest." No mention is made of the age of the victim(s) (if it was an assault) or the other participant(s) if it was consensual. So we don't know from the blurb whether this was a ridiculous prosecution of consensual sex, or if this was a just prosecution of a predator.

I did some digging myself, something a journalist can easily do. From the state's website:

April 20 is the National Day of Silence in the US

GLSEN's National Day of Silence takes place Friday, April 20. [Bumped up]

It's a day of silence, especially in schools, to bring awareness to the prejudice and inequality suffered by LGBT people. Along with all allies, I also think poly people and consanguinamorous people should participate. Everyone should have the freedom to be themselves without being bullied. Every adult should have the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with ANY consenting adults, without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination. LGBT, poly, and consanguinamorous students and faculty still have to deal with hateful policies and attacks, but with you help, that will continue to change.

LGBTP

Francesca Sciacca takes a look at two polycules in this article on polyamory at gaynewsnetwork.com.au.

Although there are many monogamous same-gender couples, there is a strong connection between the polyamorous community and the LGBT community. Both are attacked by the sex police, and you can't have a polycule without having some form of same-gender relationship. It is the very rare "V" in which two people of the same gender never meet; the metamours still have the same lover in common. Some polycules are comprised entirely of same-gender relationships. So in many ways, LGBT rights are poly rights, and poly rights hinge on same-gender marriage and relationship rights. So when politicians and busybodies try to scare people by saying "What's after the same-gender freedom to marry? Polygamy?" the answer should be, "What's wrong with letting an adult marry any consenting adults?"

Considering the Options

There's an interesting blog from heathertrahan7, a second-year doctoral student in the Rhetoric and Writing Program in the Department of English at Bowling Green State University. She's a polyamorist who doesn't like the term "nonmonogamy" because she isn't against monogamy.

What I am for is this: options. For the space for people to think, to reflect, to choose. In our U.S. culture, these spaces do not seem to exist as often as they could. When people hear the word marriage, they often think that, of course, the terms “sexual fidelity” and “sexual exclusivity” are synonymous with marriage. So then they go with that, they live their lives that way, without stopping to ask “Is this what I actually want?” However, there are those who don’t go with that. There are those who stop to ask. It might seen odd, but I consider the monogamous people—but those in that group who have stopped to reflect and critically choose that life—to be, in a way, polyamorous. Because, for me, being poly means being open enough to ask the hard and often seemingly weird questions. I guess, at the core, being poly means, for me, stopping to say: “Let’s talk.”

At the core of it, this is what I want my dissertation to inspire: talk. The not-so-simple asking and answering. The questions. And, if the answer is, for a person: “I’d like to compose my relationship style as monogamous”—then, awesome! I don’t pretend that polyamory as a relationship orientation would benefit everyone.

 I like this attitude.

Hating on Stuebing

Here are a couple of more reactions to the case of Patrick Stuebing and Susan Karolewski. Stuebing was the man who was prosecuted for having consensual sex with Susan in what appears to be a case of Genetic Sexual Attraction.These reactions show that bigotry and ignorance are alive and well.


Sasha Brown-Worsham at cafemom.com says they deserve sympathy, not sentencing, but I say they only reason they need sympathy is because of the hateful bigotry applied to their relationship by outsiders. SBW makes it clear hos she feels from the start...

Want to know what is really, really unsexy? Incest.

Many, many people would beg to disagree.

How It All Started

This summary is not available. Please click here to view the post.

A Lioness Roars About Genetic Sexual Attraction

A new blog has appeared about what we call Genetic Sexual Attraction... GSA: The Lion's Den. The Lioness welcomes all in forbidden consensual relationships, not just people experiencing GSA. She also makes a case for calling Genetic Sexual Attraction  "Genetic Self Loving" instead.

He looked like me with the same nose and same colored eyes. My face was shaped that same as his, and he was even built like me. It was not sexual at all. It was a self admiration in the opposite sex. It was the one person I always wanted in my life (without me even realizing I wanted him).


You see, loving that person so intimately and selflessly is like loving yourself and taking care of yourself. That person becomes an extension of you, and you can no longer live without him or her. Well, that's how it feels anyways.

She's an attractive young woman (she blogs anonymously, but I know who she is) who is experiencing GSA with her genetic father, who is married.

As I often say, I do not encourage anyone to break existing vows to others by cheating. If you have a partner or partner(s) and you have not cleared it with her/him/them that you are going to have sex with someone else, you shouldn't unless you want that to be the end of your prior relationship(s). However, I am more understanding when GSA is involved; this is a special circumstance in which even people who would never otherwise cheat can be overpowered by their emotions.

If course, if someone doesn't have prohibiting vows or agreements, then I see no reason to hold back from consanguinamorous encounter, fling, or ongoing relationship.

Wagging a Finger at Consanguinamory in Media, Again

Gregory Wakeman over at screenjunkies.com had another one of those "incest in TV and film" lists. This one was titled "The 6 Creepiest Incestuous Couples From TV and Film". As opposed to the sweetest? Or does Wakeman mean to say consensual sex is always creepy if it involves close relatives? Apparently, he's not an ally, as it turns out...

Incest is a horrific act to commit, yet for some reason it seems to populate many of cinemas most celebrated and respected films.

Consensual sex is horrific? And the reason it populates the films it does is that it is a part of life and always has been. He goes on to cite many of the usual examples, such as Luke Skywalker and his twin sister, of course...

...MartyMcFly and his mother from "Back to the Future," Simba and Nala from "The Lion King," "Eurotrip," "The Dreamers," and "Cruel Intentions 2."

I think perhaps Wakeman protests too much in his negative descriptions.

As I wrote above, consanguinamory is a part of life and always has been. Not for everyone, but for some. Everyone knows someone who has been, or is, consanguinamorous, whether they know it or not. There are creepy people, boring people, smart people, attractive people... all kinds of people who have been with a close relative that way. There are people in the television and movie industries, behind the cameras and in front of the cameras, who have been consanguinamorous or are currently in such a relationship, whether with family member who is in the business or isn't. Why shouldn't fiction have some realistic and some positive portrayals of consanguinamory? And why shouldn't real-life stories be told? Referring to consanguinamory in hateful terms doesn't help anyone; it can only hurt. There are people hiding their love who shouldn't have to, and the last thing they need is more jeering from people they are in no way hurting.

Positive Article on Polyamory in The Gaurdian

A guardian.co.uk, Arianne Cohen had a pleasantly lengthy article with the title, "Open Relationships: The People Making It Work." Cohen has been in an open relationship for three years herself. She profiles many poly people in various forms of relationships. Once again, I want to note that not all polyamorous relationships are open relationships. Some are. In some others, all people in the polycule only date or have sex with the other people in the polycule. In still others, one or more of the individuals may be searching for people outside of the polycule for dating, casual sex, or something with more consistency. Lori Smith (right) with Jon, her partner of 13 years, and his girlfriend Amanda: ‘We’re best friends,’ she says. Photograph: Ellen Nolan for the Guardian   Non-monogamous relationships are surprisingly common and the numbers are increasing, according to Darren Langdridge, a clinical therapist, professor at the Open University and co-author with Meg Barker of Understanding Non-Monogamies. But statistics are hard to come by, Barker says. "No national surveys cover anything like open relationships – and many people are not upfront about being in one." Polyamorous people are everywhere; many are closeted.

One View of Polyamory

Sustainable Utopia has some thoughts on polyamory that resonate with me. I don't think I could have written these thought better...

I am 100% in favour of Polyamory. Now, before I lose half of my subscribers, let me tell you why.

Polyamory comes from the Greek poly, meaning many or several, and amor, or Love. Not many Lovers, Many Loves. Polyamory is not about exploring sexual relationships outside of a marriage, it’s not about being allowed to “cheat” on your partner and get away with it. It’s about the cultivation and nurturing of loving relationships between consenting individuals or groups. Can these relationships include sex? Of course. Do they have to? Not necessarily. It all depends on the previously agreed upon perimeters of the relationship in question.

Even with monogamous relationships, haven't we all been in or seen ones in which perimeters were not negotiated, and presented an ongoing problem, until the relationship ended?

Thumbs Down on Polygyny From Muslim Group in India

A Muslim group in India changed positions, and now condemns polygyny...

From urging Muslims not to celebrate birthdays to asking men to avoid working in banks and financial institutions, the diktats from the Darul Uloom at Deoband have often evoked a mixture of mirth and anger.

Sound like real party animals.

In a revolutionary fatwa which could go a long way at strengthening the institution of Islamic wedding, the Darul Uloom at Deoband, in a departure from the Shariah, has said that a second marriage would be a bad idea if the first wife was alive.

How about embracing gender equality and then letting adults decide for themselves? You know, a woman might want to marry a married man, or might want to marry two men, or a woman, or two women.

Darul Ifta, the fatwa department of India's foremost Islamic seminary, passed the decree following an online question posed by a married man with two children.

"According to the Shariah, it is lawful to keep two wives at the same time. But it is generally not acceptable in Indian custom. Here in India, it is like inviting hundreds of problems. Moreover, the husband generally cannot do justice and cannot maintain equality between the two wives."

Why don't they let adults decide that for themselves?

There was no harm cited by the freedom to marry, only warnings that people would be sorry if they married more than one person. Isn't that up to the people in the marriage?

Persecution Persists Against Consanguinamory

There's been some outrageous recent developments as far as persecution against consanguinamory and the consenting adults who benefit from it and enjoy it. My previous two entries were about the horrible court decision in Europe, and now one of our favorite discussion forums has been forced to move for the second time in a matter of weeks. The porn-free Consensual Incest forum got the boot from Forumotion and should be operational at a new home on Monday. For some reason, the "sister" forum, "Incest Therapy," has not been booted from the service, perhaps because of the name. I will be sure to point you to the new location of the Consensual Incest forum once I have confirmed it is operational. [Update: Here is the new location.]

Not everyone is going to want the same love life. I understand that some people are disgusted by different things, but I don't try to stop people from talking with each other about things that disgust me. It is ridiculous that anyone would try to shut down honest discussion about consensual sex between adults.

The Unjust Prosecution of Patrick Stuebing

Will you be spending the weekend with your loved one(s), with no fear of law enforcement barging in to break you up and prosecute you, or worse? If so, good for you. But there are many places in the world where someone can be imprisoned, or worse, for being who they are and loving the people they do. Sometimes it is because they have more than one spouse, with the consent of all. Other times, it is because they are with someone of the same gender. In the case of Patrick Stuebing  and so many others, it is because the lovers are close genetic relatives.

Imagine... the government telling you that you can't be with another consenting adult. As I noted  in a post yesterday, the so-called European Court of Human Rights again made a mockery of its name by denying Stuebing the basic human right of freedom of association and the right to love. As you may recall, Patrick Stuebing and Susan Karolewski were not raised together, and this appears to be a case of Genetic Sexual Attraction.

Here's the report at bbc.co.uk...

Stuebing, who was convicted of incest and spent three years in prison, did not meet his natural sister until he tracked down his family as an adult.


He had been adopted as a child and only made contact with his natural relatives in his 20s.


The siblings grew close after their mother died.

Three years in prison. For simply loving someone. That is an injustice.

Outrageous Court Decision Backs Bigotry

I'll write more about it later, but it is all over the news that so-called European Court of Human Rights has ruled against Patrick Stuebing, who was prosecuted for the "crime" of loving his genetic sister. What is more basic of a human right than freedom of association and the right to love another consenting adult? If adults do not have the right to love each other in the way we want, what rights do we really have?

German courts did not violate a Leipzig man's privacy rights by convicting him for incest with his younger sister — with whom he fathered four children, the European Court of Human Rights said Thursday.

The court, part of the 47-nation Council of Europe based in eastern Strasbourg, France, said German courts didn't violate the rights of Patrick Stuebing, who was sentenced to 14 months in prison in 2005. He is now free.

The case had prompted calls for Germany to follow countries like France, Turkey, Japan and Brazil in amending its laws so that consensual sexual relations between adult relatives are no longer illegal.

An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence,and marriage with any consenting adults.

For more, see...
Discredited Arguments
Consanguinamory FAQ
Genetic Sexual Attraction

Muslims Need Relationship Rights, Too

From winnipegfreepress.com comes this article by Nadia Kidwai about Muslim women speaking out against stereotypes.

In A Prayer Answered, Tolu Adiba writes of the inner turmoil she experiences as a practising Muslim who also happens to be gay, and the love she finds with another niqab-wearing Muslim woman, describing their relationship as "Two orthodox girls with an unorthodox love."

Three, written by African-American convert Asiila Imaani, tells of her journey as a divorced single mother searching for a Muslim husband through various Muslim matrimonial services and eventually finding love and support in a polygamous marriage from both her husband and her "sister-wife."

It doesn't matter to me what religion someone identifies with. What matters to me is that our laws equally protect the right for consenting adults to share love, sex, residence, and marriage.

Possibly Polyamorous

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Near Melbourne?

Great sex educator Tristan Taormino talked to Kate O’Halloran at gaynewsnetwork.com.au...

“In the grand scheme of things, polyamory is still a pretty new concept. The discussion about non-monogamous relationships within mainstream media has increased in the last few years, but I wouldn’t say that ‘polyamory’ is a household word yet or that a huge percentage of the population understands the basics about it.”

Taormino hopes to go some way towards providing her audiences in Melbourne with more of an insight into the logistics of negotiating an open relationship in her class entitled ‘Making Open Relationships Work’, which discusses practical strategies for making polyamory possible.

Readers near Melbourne: Depending on when you read this, it might not be too late to attend...

An Evening with Tristan Taormino, April 11, 303 Sydney Rd, Brunswick
Making Open Relationships Work, April 12, 225 Bourke St, Melbourne
Information and bookings – www.pleasuresalonmelbourne.wordpress.com

My usual disclaimer... "polyamorous" is not synonymous with "open." There are polyamorous relationships that are closed.

A Blogger Comes Out

Briana Blair wrote "The Unfortunate Shame of Polyamory, My 'Coming Out' Story."

The shame and fear regarding this subject has been tearing my up inside. However, after a few long talks with my husband, and assurances from him that’s he’ll have my back, we’ve decided that it’s time for me to “come out of the closet” and be honest with myself and the world about who and what I am.

Nobody should have to hide who they are.

Over the last few days I can honestly say that I’ve gained a much greater understanding of what it must be like for homosexuals to come out to the world. I have a much greater respect for them and the courage it takes them to be honest with themselves and the people around them. I may still be mostly straight, but I can see and feel just how hard it all is. People can be so narrow-minded, judgmental and cruel, it takes serious brass balls to put your sexuality out in the open.

Yes, it does. There are so many people out there, some of them with power, who hate other people because of things like this.

It wasn’t until my current relationship, which is with someone who is wonderful, understanding and intelligent, that I was able to talk about and begin to explore this part of my nature.

 Supportive people can make all of the difference.

I know that some people in my inner circle won’t give a flip. If I find another boyfriend I won’t have to hide it from them. Extended family, friends and people I’m connected to in other ways may be less loving and understanding. That’s where the fear comes in. The time has come though for me to face the music and put it out there. 

What if someone you knew came out to you, as LGBT or poly or consanguinamorous?

Best wishes, Briana! You go!

Polygyny Is Not A Problem...

...if there is gender equality under the law. At lovetimesthree.com, Joe addressed the anti-equality arguments that the polygamous freedom to marry causes inequality for women and hurts boys.

Several of the “lost boys” (a term they very much dislike) I have worked with in the past said they left Colorado City because they did not want the strict religious restrictions and responsibilities, not because they were coerced. Some were told to leave if they would not live by the families rules. When we did the 20/20 interview with ABC, the producer and I talked about the “Lost Boy” perception. He said he had a lot of pressure to do a story on it and tried to, but he could never get credible evidence to justify a story that those young men were forced out systematically. That  some boys were abandoned by their families for disobedience is true; but not enough evidence exists for a blanket statement of every young man that left the community was so older men could have more wives.


The boys that worked for me were employed outside of the community and decided they did not want to adhere to the strict religious mores required of them. Also they did not want to turn their money over to their Fathers, and that is why they left.

As he notes, a blanket statement can't be made. Some boys are abandoned by their family. Some leave.

If popular culture, television and movies are correct, (ie. He’s Just Not That Into You) finding men that want the commitment of marriage is much harder than finding men who want multiple sexual partners. I don’t think the polygamy detractors need to worry about running out of women because the problem is finding men willing to take on the commitment.  In Love Times Three we talk about our own experience in our families where overwhelmingly it is women who more often choose this lifestyle.


What gets missed is that polygyny, at least according to our beliefs, was never intended for the entire population, nor has it been practiced by the entire population historically. I don’t recommend it unless all parties feel inspired, are making a conscious choice, and have a deep abiding connection with all those involved. But to limit my wives or any other intelligent woman the choice based upon such rationale of inequality is silly.

I've addressed the lies about polygamy before. With gender equality and the full freedom to polygamy (not just polygyny,) there's no problem. A woman should be free to not marry, to divorce if married, and to marry the mutually agreeing adult or adults of her choosing... even if that adult is already married.

Polyamory Can Mean More Relationship Security

The polyamorous have taken to tumblr like duck takes to water. Just see where, we read  "Why polyamory actually makes us feel MORE secure about our relationships."

We were talking about his insecurities surrounding me beginning to date S (which is going wonderfully, by the way!), and after a lot of really great dialogue, he said some things that really stuck out to me:


“Actually, it really does the opposite of make me insecure. It’s an ego boost, really. What it says to me is that even though you’re dating him, it hasn’t changed your desire to be with me. The fact that you want to be with me despite seeing other people says that there are things about our relationship you can’t get anywhere else. It means you find things about me irreplaceable, things that you don’t have in another relationship, and that preserves the value of our relationship. If your interest in Person A doesn’t diminish once you start dating Person B, it means that Person A is special enough and irreplaceable enough to keep around, no matter who else is a part of your life.”

It is an important point.

As far as tumblr... maybe I should add that to my outreach?

I may or may not blog tomorrow (Easter). Enjoy the rest of  the weekend and don't each too much candy.

Ghana First Family Stuck in the Sixteenth Century

As we can see in this article at peacefmonline.com, allegations of incest remain a tool for personal destruction and political attacks, just as they have throughout history.

Dr. Sekou Nkrumah, the controversial son of Ghana’s first President says Dr. Nathan Kwame Nkrumah who claims to be the second son of Dr. Kwame Nkrumah had a point in time proposed to marry his sister Samia Nkrumah.

According to Sekou Nkrumah, he wonders why someone who claims to be the son of Nkrumah would want to marry his own sister.

Why does anyone want to marry anyone? Love, sex, companionship...

In an interview with XYZ News, Dr. Sekou Nkrumah said his siblings have challenged the authenticity of the story of Dr. Nathan Kwame Nkrumah and would only accept him if he tenders in substantive evidence to support his claims.

“My problem is that you don’t go around saying you are Nkrumah’s son when you are not. How can you be Nkrumah’s son when all this time nobody has heard of you?

It’s called… Nkrumah having sex with another woman. I don’t know if it happened or not, but it is possible, isn’t it?

Meanwhile, Dr. Nathan Kwame Nkrumah has laughed off the claims by Dr. Sekou Nkrumah.

According to him, Dr. Sekou Nkrumah has no right to pass judgment on his eligibility to be Dr. Nkrumah’s son.

He added that he is not perturbed about the difficulty in accepting him as a son of Dr. Nkrumah by the recognized children of Dr. Nkrumah.

Whatever the truth is, using allegations of consensual incest (or sexual orientation, for that matter) as a political tool is a practice that needs to end.

Go Check Out Charlie Glickman's Site

Charlie Glickman provides great adult sex education. In this article, he asks, “Why Can’t We Have Good Articles About Polyamory?”

Geoff Capp left a comment answering that question…

Because most of the people writing them (i.e., most people) consider themselves monogamous (even if they aren’t) and see poly-anything as a threat to their rightness.  Monogamy, often religiously-based, is as much a religion for many people as is free-market capitalism, party politics, or computer platform.  (To be fair, many poly folk get religious about poly as well.)  Any disagreement with a sincerely-held religious tenet is often perceived as an attack, so a certain amount of defensiveness is to be expected.

Also, for a similar reason, most people writing about it have no experience and less idea of what’s really going on, and are (and generally must be) more interested in selling a good story than in reporting “fair and balanced” facts.  The majority of their market, in many cases, is the same religiously monogamous majority mentioned above, so lather, rinse, repeat.

Thankfully, we are getting more positive articles about polyamory.

Fun Times in Melbourne

Readers of this blog who are in the Melbourne area might want to go see “goth, kinky, fat, married, queer” Lisa-Skye, who was interviewed by Nicole Haddow of melbournetimesweekly.com.au…

The comedian’s show Ladyboner at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival has already been a huge hit at the Melbourne Fringe Festival. 

For the uninitiated, a ladyboner, according to Lisa-Skye, is a female erection and she’ll happily expand on the subject with delightfully indulgent sketches throughout the show.

She points out that she’s married to a man, but she’s also polyamorous – not bi-sexual, that’s different she says. ‘‘I’m a bit slutty. I love my husband, but he doesn’t have boobs and I like boobs.’’

According to the article…

See Ladyboner at the Comedy Festival from March 29 to April 21 at the John Curtin Hotel. Tickets: $12–$20 from ticketmaster.com.au

Polyamory Requires Maturity and Honesty

Psychotherapist Adrienne Parker has some clients who are polyamorous.

Many people who are living in polyamorous relationships are married and deeply committed to their marriage partners as well as to their other love interests. Emotional maturity and honesty are sacrosanct in polyamory. People who choose this lifestyle are bucking the familial and moral norm of the social construct. They are releasing the dream of the white-picket-fence relationship model that most of us grew up with and creating a new dream, one of more open, honest loving in unlimited ways.

Actually, there are poly people living in homes with white picket fences. Poly people are everywhere, even if they don’t tell everyone they are poly.

Polyamory is a nonmonogamous relationship style but it's actually more about sharing love and emotional intimacy with more than one partner than it is about sex. With open hearts and clear communication, sex is an option, not a requirement, of polyamory.

That’s a great way of putting it.

Polyamory is an option. Strict monogamy is an option. There are many honest, ethical options, and our laws should not punish consenting adults from choosing one option over another.