Ethical Nonmonogamy is Not Cheating

Cheating is breaking an existing agreement or vow and keeping/intending to keep that breech of the agreement a secret from the person or people with whom it was made rather than informing the other(s) that the agreement is over (which is "leaving").

Ethical nonmonogamy is not cheating. (ENM may also be known as “consensual nonmonogamy” or “disclosed nonmonogamy.”)

For example, Mark and Jenny are swingers. Their agreement is that they will only be with others when they are both present. Anything more than a hug or kiss on the cheek with someone else, or revealing genitals to someone else in a social context, when they are not together, is a no. They attend parties together and have sex with others there; that's not cheating. But while Jenny is out of town on business, Mark picks up a woman at a bar and she gives him oral sex. Under the agreement he has with Jenny, this is cheating. Other swingers have different rules.

Some people have open relationships/marriages and a "don't ask, don't tell" policy, meaning the partners can be with others and won't ask or tell each other about who or what or when, often with certain conditions such as using protection and having STI tests. If you're not communicating with a potential partner's other partner(s), you can't be sure that being with you wouldn't involve your potential new partner cheating. Ultimately, though, at some point you just have to trust what someone tells you because establishing an absolute negative is extremely difficult. How can you be sure they don't have an agreement with some other person out there that would be breached with whatever you're doing? You can't. You can only be sure that you're not cheating on someone.*

Ethical nonmonogamy can take many forms, from lifelong spousal triads and quads (polyamory) to couples swapping to swinging to open marriages to couples engaging in the occasional casual threesome to someone living alone but having casual hookups. Informed consent is the core of all of this. While ENM is not cheating, people who profess or attempt to maintain ENM might cheat, just like monogamists might cheat. If there is a closed triad and someone in the triad has a secret lover on the side contrary to the agreement with the two others in the triad, that's cheating. "Fluid bonding" is a term used in polyamorous circles. Someone might only have unprotected sex with one person, and protected sex with others. Going without protection would be a form of cheating.

One should never assume that someone who is married or at least coupled isn't available, although one can certainly decide they don't want to be with someone who is married or coupled. That's each person's decision to make. Just because someone is married or has a partner doesn't automatically mean they aren't available for romance or sexual affection or some other social activities (meals together, going to the theatre).

While one may decide that kissing someone else is cheating and a deal breaker for their relationship, not all cheating has the same implications and risks.

How Consanguineous Lovers Can Avoid Trouble

Believe it or not, there are still criminal laws in many places criminalizing consensual sex between adults, and there are still police officers who will investigate people for this "crime," still prosecutors who will take the case before a court, and still judges and jurors who will convict people and sentence them to prison. There are still social workers who will take children away from good parents because those parents love other adults.

It doesn't matter to them how loving the relationships are. It doesn't matter if they love each other more than they could love others, it doesn't matter if the lovers didn't even meet each other until they were adults. It apparently doesn't matter to the people interfering that every dollar or minute they spend trying to stop consenting adults from loving each other is a dollar or minute that could instead go into protecting people, especially children, against predators.

In addition to this persecution of consanguinamorous people, there aren't any protections against other forms of discrimination against the consanguinamorous, such as employment discrimination. There are still many states that don't have protections for LGBTQ+ people, either, and polyamorous people are even less protected than monogamous LGBTQ+ people.

I sometimes forget that people don’t follow the news and law as closely as I do for this blog, so they may be unaware of these things. So I want to share with you what I've learned.

First, note the disclaimer that there is an ever-present at the bottom of this blog. I'll mostly repeat it here:

Sorting Out Relation

Sometimes people, especially young people, aren't certain of how to describe their relation to someone else. It doesn't help that legal relation isn't always the same as genetic (blood) relation.  People can legally be siblings, but not be close genetic relatives, for example. Or two people can be genetic siblings but not legal relatives. Relation by blood/genetics is referred to as consanguinity and relation by marriage or law may be referred to as affinity.

Generally, the law recognizes that people are related through birth*, adoption, or marriage (or civil union or domestic partnership.)

I hope this provides clarity to people who are uncertain.

If You Get Called to Jury Duty

What should you do if you are called to jury duty and are faced with being placed on a criminal case against someone you think is being prosecuted under an unjust law, such as a law against adult unmarried cohabitation, or against polyfidelity (as Utah has had on the books), or against consanguinamory? NOTE: THIS IS A PHILOSOPHICAL ESSAY, NOT LEGAL ADVICE.


The Basics of Criminal Case Juries in the US

Here in the US, people being accused of criminal activity have a right to a trial by jury or they can go with having a judge decide their case. If they go with a jury trial, the judge pretty much acts like a referee until the jury reaches a decision. The decision will be in the hands of the jury, not the judge. The judge should give you no indication of whether they think the defendant is guilty or not.

For a criminal conviction, the jury of twelve people has to unanimously decide the person on trial is "guilty" and it is supposed to be because the prosecution proved their case for guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt." If just one person (or, up to eleven people) on the jury says "not guilty" and won't budge, the case ends in a mistrial and the prosecutor can try again with another jury. If all twelve say "not guilty" then the accused is cleared of that crime and can't be retried for the same crime for the same incident. People can appeal after they've been convicted of a crime, but their appeal usually won't get them cleared.

Living Consanguinamorously - What To Tell The Children

A question many people in consanguinamorous relationships have is if, what, when, and how to tell their children about their relationship.

There is no one right answer because it depends on many different factors.

It will be great when we get to a point where it doesn’t even have to be a question, but since most consanguineous lovers are still living in places where such relationships face severe discrimination, often including imprisonment, it is a question some people have.

Most people in consanguinamorous relationships have children, whether they have those children together or by some other relationship or through adoption or third party reproduction, because most people in general have children, so this is an issue faced by many people.

Let’s consider some of the factors involved.

Labor Day Weekend

In the US, the first Monday in September is the Labor Day holiday, making this weekend an extended holiday weekend.

Friends and family often go to the beach or get together.

Although most schools now start before Labor Day, it’s still considered the cultural “end of summer,” although the meteorological end of summer always falls about September 21.

In the northern hemisphere, warm temperatures, beachgoing or poolside socializing, and perhaps some alcohol make it a festive time. 

If you have any special plans or end up having any special experiences with family or friends, tell us about it below in the comments. You can stay anonymous. For some of you, this will be a chance to make a move to initiate something you’ve wanted to do.

Be safe and have fun!

Don't Like It? You Don't Have to Do It

I get all sorts of comments submitted to this blog, and send to me through other means. Some express prejudice and bigotry. From one of those...

I definitely believe it is disgusting and wrong for a father and daughter to have a sexual relationship. I thought it was illegal in most states no matter if it is consensual or not. I can’t imagine doing that.

Let's consider this statement closely.

I definitely believe it is disgusting and wrong for a father and daughter to have a sexual relationship.

What disgusts you can influence what you do. It should have no control over what anyone else does.

What would make it wrong for two (or more) individuals, who aren't cheating, who are capable of consenting, to consent to sex? Is sex itself wrong? Or do you believe that it is only right to have sex under certain conditions in addition to consent and being free to take on a new partner? What would those conditions be? Regardless, your claim that it is wrong shouldn't have power over the rights of anyone else.

I thought it was illegal in most states no matter if it is consensual or not.

Unconstitutional laws do still remain on the books that criminalize this in 48 states. That means in two states, there is no such law. What is your objection in those two states? Or the many countries with no ridiculous laws to that effect?

I can’t imagine doing that.

Then don't. Nobody is saying you have to.

I can't imagine running a marathon. Does that mean nobody else should be free to do so?

The fact is, human sexuality and relationships are diverse. Not everyone is going to want the same things. And that's OK! There is no good reason to try to deny people the relationships to which they've mutually agreed.

There are women who have been consanguinamorous with their genetic fathers. Some have been together until their father's death, in a loving relationship with no regrets (other than not starting sooner). Why should they be denied their rights just because someone else doesn't like their love? There's no good reason.

We need to support relationship rights for all, and full marriage equality.

We Will Always Love You

RIP Queen

Dolly Parton

January 19, 1946 - August 25, 2026

May we rise to your example.

Mothers, Sons, and the Law

I'm continuing a series here of answers I posted to Quora that got attacked by censors. [This entry has been bumped up.]

*****

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-illegal-for-a-mother-to-have-sex-with-her-own-son/answer/Keith-Pullman

Is it illegal for a mother to have sex with her own son?

Keith Pullman

I network with, interview, & befriend adults with consensual incest experience.2y

It’s still illegal for a woman who have sex with her adult son in 48 states in the US and many countries.

It isn’t illegal in the US states of Rhode Island & New Jersey, as well as various modern countries, including France and Spain.

Regardless of criminalization, there are mothers and sons having sex in just about every neighborhood on the planet, regardless of class or ethnicity. And there always have been. Sometimes the sex is a very casual “family-with-benefits” agreement, sometimes it is part of a spousal relationship lasting decades, and sometimes it is somewhere along the wide spectrum between.

Very few are ever caught & prosecuted where it is still illegal, but such lovers need to be careful in order to protect themselves and each other.

*****

NOTE: These specific answers in this series were "deleted" at Quora after being there for a while and being well-received. They were probably hidden from view because some bigot targeted me, as evidenced by the fact that many were deleted in rapid fire.

I have previously appealed such deletions successfully. However, whether or not my deleted answers are restored, I’ll be adding them to this blog. You’ll see for yourself there’s no reason to delete these answers.

Consanguinamorous Dating

We've talked much about how to live in a consanguinamorous relationship, but only a little about how to initiate one.

What about dating?

As with other relationships, your curiosity or sexual attraction might not be enough, and dating helps figure out if there could be mutual interest and attraction, and compatibility; it helps you get to know each other better, see if you can have fun together, see if you're a match, and bond more.

For some of you, there is a big difference between dating a relative or family member and someone else, because the other person might not know that you intend this to be dating in the romantic or sexual sense. It's a problem many LGBTQ+ people have faced before, and some continue to face, depending on where they live. On the plus side, you usually know a lot about this person already. In that way, it can be like starting to date a close friend: Can you be "more than" friends? In this case, it is can you be "more than" siblings or whatever your relation is? Dating can help figure that out. Even if people already know they are mutually attracted and interested, dating can be a way to see if they are actually compatible.

Revisiting Your Youth

Siblings, stepsiblings, cousins, and other close relatives have been exploring, experimenting with, and playing with each other for all of history. This includes, when they are close in age, during adolescence and childhood.

Playing “house,” playing “doctor,” “show me yours, I’ll show you mine,” and various acts of curiosity are very common. As long as aggression or fear isn’t used to create the experience, it’s generally not considered abuse or otherwise problematic for, as an example, siblings who are 10 and 13 to have explored a bit; even less so if the siblings who are, say, 14 and 17 get sexual, or have (deliberately) watched each other or, together, someone else in the residence or connected with the family getting sexual.

Again, this isn’t referring to something forceful, coerced, or  done under duress or threats. Abuse is an entirely different matter beyond the scope of this topic.

Over the years, I’ve been contacted by people who had such experiences, wondering if it was OK that they happened, some feeling “guilty,” or asking if it is unusual that they don’t regret it, maybe if and how to bring the subject up with the other person(s) who were involved.

These experiences are normal, natural, and not rare. There’s nothing wrong with or harmful about youthful curiosity and exploration.

If you weren’t the eldest participant, the person who was the eldest or elder would almost certainly benefit from hearing from you that you don’t regret it and you think of it as a positive or neutral experience, as opposed to an abusive or otherwise negative one. (If that is, indeed, how you feel about it.)

But how and when should you talk with them? What should you say?

It’s best to talk with them one-on-one, privately, in-person.

If you won’t be seeing them in-person anytime soon and you absolutely can’t wait, still ensure that the conversation is private, just between the two of you. A live video call is best, a live audio call is second best, followed by texting in a secure messaging app, especially with expiring (disappearing) messages, and it will be essential that you keep your wording somewhat vague - vague enough that if other people hear it or read it they wouldn’t be able to prove conclusively what happened.

You’re probably going to be nervous, and that’s OK. You’ll just have to have the courage to go ahead and be awkward about it.

Say something along the lines of, “I’ve been thinking some good thoughts about some good memories. I want you to know that I think back on the times we shared privately when we were kids as good times. I thought it might be important for you to know that.” Or, use words that will be positive and effective between the two of you. I deliberately chose to use the word “good” right away and repeat it so as to put the other person at ease. Add a “thank you” if appropriate. Starting off with “We need to talk,” or something like that can cause someone undue worry and defensiveness.

Their reaction might range from denial and refusing to talk about it, to slight embarrassment, to being relieved, to wanting to “pick up where you left off.” Telling them is highly unlikely to have a down side. If they’re in denial, “don’t remember,” or don’t want to talk about it at that moment, don’t push it. Allow them their time.

If, conversely, you were the eldest/elder, it can be risky to reopen that matter first, meaning the younger person hasn’t mentioned what happened since it last happened or soon after. Even if you were absolutely certain (and correct) that this was a mutually positive experience, societal prejudices, shame, and fear might have influenced how someone else remembers what happened. If you do raise the subject, the spectrum of potential reactions is much wider, especially if you don’t currently have a close and positive relationship with this person now. As such, if you bring it up, it should start with asking them how they’re doing and how they feel about your shared youth.

If things go well and you do want to “pick up where you left off,” this might help. It’s is possible for all involved to have no regrets AND not agree to do anything together now, so never assume that just because you had some moment in your youth that anything will happen now.

As always, your comments that follow the rules are welcome and you can write to Keith privately via email at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com or on the Wire messaging app at fullmarriageequality.

A French Connection

We have another exclusive interview to bring you. 

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. Most can’t even be out of the closet or they’ll face persecution and prosecution under absurd incest laws, which, instead of focusing on abuse, also target consensual relationships.

The couple interviewed below should be free to legally and publicly marry, or simply be together without having to hide, yet they can’t. Prejudice can be deadly. They are consenting adults; why should they have been denied their rights? In much of the world, they could be criminally prosecuted for loving each other this way, and might be persecuted severely in addition.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what they have to say about the love they share. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic, but whatever your reaction, should lovers like these be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

Also please note that someone you love, respect, and admire could be in a similar relationship right now. Should they be attacked and denied rights because of the "incest" label? 

NOTE: This interview has some sexually explicit descriptions inherent to the interviewees’ life experiences and development.

*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourselves.

Emma: My family is English, but we’ve been living in France for over 20 years. We originally lived near London and moved to Paris because of my dad’s work. 

I’m 26 years old, caucasian, blond, green eyes. I’m 5’ 3” and not excessively athletic as I do my best to keep my weight down. That’s hard in France with all the delicious food, so I’m not skinny, but sort of a normal sized person.

My mum and dad raised me. They were always both present for me right from the start, sharing my upbringing, my education. When I was younger, my parents both worked in London, so sometimes it was my mum who came home first to pick my brother and I up from school, sometimes it was my dad when my mum was working late.

I did the major part of my education here in France - given that when I arrived in France aged six, I didn’t speak or understand a word of French, but now I’m fully bilingual, which is a great advantage when working with international clients. Jobwise, I’m a PA for a Media Events company in Paris that works internationally. We organise PR and advertising events. And no, I’m no “Emily in Paris,” even if my colleagues and I have watched the series and laughed a lot about some of the PR campaigns featured in the episodes.

I like swimming. We have a pool. I like movies, concerts, traveling and nudism camping holidays.

I have an elder brother who is 28 years old, who also works in the same company but in the Events Logistics Department.

John: I’m from a middle class family from London. I met my late wife at school, we fell in love and when I was 20 and she was 19, we had our first child / our son - then Emma a couple of years later. Yes, we were a bit young to become parents, but we somehow made it work, thanks to the help of our parents. 

My father worked in import/export so I naturally got a job with him, moving up over the years, before taking over from him. I work in import/export of electronics, hifi and other audio/video equipment. Then I had a business opportunity to move to France and take over an office in Paris. I’m nearly 49, already a silver fox as some say; quite tall, I swim and play tennis to stay fit. 

We own a nice family house on the outskirts of Paris, with quite a bit of land and a small forest all around. I bought it while looking for a quiet and secluded area to get away from the busy Paris work environment. 

I’ve been very fortunate with my investments, giving my family enough to live a very comfortable life and little worries about money.

I’m a real geek for technology and gadgets, going to specialized exhibitions - for work, but also to get to see all the new stuff - I like doing nudism camping. We did this a lot back then with my late wife before we had our kids and later with them too, first at some campsites in England, then in France. One outside Paris, another in the South West and our favorite one in the South of France at the Cap d’Agde naturism center.