Wednesday, November 30, 2011

Has the Water in Zimbabwe Been Tested?

In Muzarabani, Zimbabwe, a widow is “suspected” of still being a hot momma at age 87 and enjoying the sexual company of her 35-year-old son.

Louisa Chitakure, an octogenarian who lives in Sabhuku Gunduza's village under Chief Kasekete, has stunned the villagers and people of Muzarabani as she is said to be bedding her son Francis Arumendo who is 35 years old, H-Metro reported.

Good for her, especially at that age.

Their relationship has stunned the community and they are calling it taboo and causing the current dry spell to persist because of the rain-‘impeding' taboo relationship.


H-Metro caught up with Francis at Muzarabani Growth Point where he admitted that it was indeed true that he is bedding his mother and two other elderly women.

Francis said, "I enjoy having sex with my mother. The sex is great, and she is the only woman I've enjoyed having sex with."

Hmm. Not sure how the other two women are going to take that.

Francis also said, "We have been having sex for as long as I cannot remember." However, Francis' mother vehemently denied that she is having sex with her son saying that people who hate her were the ones going around telling the story.

At this rate, he’s going to be without a woman at all, since it appears he’s saying things that would upset all of them.

She also said that: "Francis says that because he is a bit mentally challenged so you cannot ENTIRELY believe what he says because he is mentally challenged."

If the numbers are right she was 52 when he was born.

These two need some tips about how to deal with the news media. Kissing and telling without permission is a problem, and her statements about him could have been worded better.

If they are enjoying each other that way, it is nobody else’s business.
— — —

Tuesday, November 29, 2011

A Woman Denied Her Freedom to Marry

"Loving Daughter" is a beautiful young adult who generously agreed to be interviewed for this blog. She has found love with an available man and would marry him, but she can't even be open with the totality of her love for him, due to prejudice expressed in unjust laws and bullying. Here is yet another reason we need full marriage equality sooner rather than later.


FME: What can you tell me about your background?

Loving Daughter: I was raised in a small town of 3,000 in [a southern US state], by very, very devout southern baptists. I wore a purity ring, was raised to hate gays and black people. When I went off to college a (private christian college) my parents and I started bumping heads because I was starting to think for myself and develop my own views and beliefs. I left home and moved in with my [boyfriend] and then got pregnant, then later married him.

You are now in a relationship with your biological father, correct? This is a loving relationship that includes making love?

Yes and yes. I'm 22, he's 41.

How would you describe the nature of your relationship with your father?

The best description would be my soulmate. He completes me.

When and how did you first make contact, and what was it like meeting him for the first time?

I first met him 3 years ago after he found me on a social networking site. We had no contact at all growing up. My mom got pregnant with me in high school, then left the state.

When did you first notice you had feelings for him? Were they romantic, sexual, curious, an intense attraction, what?

Well, he never felt like a "father" to me. I knew he was my dad but I just didn't feel like he was. He was more of a man to me, like any other man you would meet. I thought he was very handsome. I didn't know what the attraction was at first. I couldn’t place it but I knew something was there

How did you start making love with each other?

One night we had too much tequila. It started with me touching his thigh then he kissed me then we both came alive. We later freaked out… especially me, I couldn't believe I had sex with my father. It took me a couple days to calm down and collect myself. I thought I was a freak, going crazy!! We agreed to try it sober, and when we did it was just as intense we wanted to make sure that the feelings were there without the use of alcohol.

It was so intense, passionate, and electrifying that it's almost unreal. I was married for two years to my ex husband and that was nothing compared to this. It's like something came alive inside of me. I've never wanted a man so badly. I couldn't stop smiling afterwards. I had never been so happy.

How do you feel about the lovemaking side of your relationship?

The lovemaking is absolutely amazing, the passion is so intense and it's definitely an extension of our love.

Do you have feelings for other close biological relative that are anything like the ones you have for your father, whether they are as intense or not?

No, I haven't.

Are you involved with anyone else?

We are monogamous.

Who else knows the full, true nature of your relationship, and how did they find out? How have they reacted?

My best friend; she screamed at first, but then said to do whatever makes me happy.

He has two [preteen children] and I have a son who's 2 from a previous marriage. His ex wife called CPS and they questioned us. We denied everything, and they accused us of having our kids in an unhealthy environment, which made me wonder what's unhealthy about it?? We started being more discreet around the kids about our affection. We try not to be physical at all in front of them, but they are accepting that we rare a couple now. They even asked if I was gonna marry him.

What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your love?

I don't blame them. Until you experience it for yourself you cannot truly understand

Would you get legally married to him if you could, and if that included protection from things such as bullying and workplace discrimination based on your relationship?

In a heartbeat, I will never stop loving him. Finding each other was fate. He is my destiny and my future. I don't know if I've ever been in love before, but this is it. I know now what love is.

Do you have any plans for the future?

We do, we hope to one day have a child and live together as a bonded family

What advice do you have to someone who has romantic or sexual feelings for a close biological relative?

Do your research, you are not a freak and you’re not alone :)


There you have it. Another loving couple denied the freedom to marry, or even be open with their love.

There is no reason that she should be denied the right to marry the man she loves. Not everyone is going to be comfortable with the idea of sex and marriage between close biological relatives, but we're not all going to want each other's love lives, and that's okay, as long as we don't deny others their right to choose.

In interviewing (and sometimes observing) the people in these consanguinamorous relationships, and in talking with more people I haven't interviewed, there is a consistent thread to be found in such relationships. That thread is that the relationships are stronger, more intense, and more enjoyable than any others experienced; nothing else compares.

Since there is no rational reason to discriminate against them and deny them full marriage equality, won't you help bring about that equality sooner rather than later, so that and adult is free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults?

Previous interviews:

A sister married to her brother in every way but under the law

A daughter whose father wants to marry her

A son who wants to marry his mother

A father who wants to marry his daughter

Brother whose lifelong lover is his twin sister

A man whose husband is his brother

A mother, daughter, and son who want to marry

If you'd like to share your own story related to a "prohibited" consensual relationship, you can contact me via fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com or on Facebook.
— — —

Monday, November 28, 2011

The Cruelty of Discrimination

A Canadian man and his half-sister have been struggling with legal and social prejudice against consanguinamory. They were brought together through Genetic Sexual Attraction, but the external pressure attacking their love has been a heavy burden.

The man wanted me to share what his lover, his biological half-sister, wrote to him...

How can two people marry
Who are not in love
But two people in love
Cannot marry

It is cruelty that anyone would be forced to live a lie just because of love, and that they are denied the freedom to marry.

As he wrote...

I do love her like I have never loved any one else. I am mad at society for judging us and not allowing us to live as we want to. The lies the secrets causes even more pain.

I cannot ask friends or family (what I have left) for help as they do not understand.

My heart longs for her and she says the same back but she cannot let go of what others say. And that is getting between us.

When we are together nothing else matters.

This cruelty needs to be ended. We need full marriage equality sooner rather than later, so that an adult is free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults.
— — —

Sunday, November 27, 2011

Why To Try or Not Try Polyamory

Coleen gives six reasons to try polyamory, and three reasons NOT to try it.

Among the reasons to try it…

1. You could find an incredibly supportive community.


4. You question the wisdom of “traditional” coupledom.

Some people just aren’t monogamous, but can have meaningful relationships. Cheating can be a horrible way to go. Polyamory is the ethical way.

5. You’re bisexual.
This is a controversial one. Some people categorically dismiss bisexuals as incapable of fidelity, or indecisive wafflers who are too afraid to admit what they really want in a partner. Maybe you are truly attracted to both men and women. Maybe your sexuality doesn’t fit into a sterile little label.

Some bisexuals can be monogamous for a long term relationship. But others need polyamory. Just like there are heterosexuals, gays, and lesbians who need polyamory.

Don’t try polyamory if…

1. You think it will fix your infidelity problems.
Surprise! Cheating exists within polyamorous relationships, too.


2. Your partner is pressuring you.

There’s a difference between needing encouragement to try something different, and being pressured to go against your needs. This always works in reverse, as well; someone who needs polyamory should not pledge lifelong monogamy under pressure from a partner.

Go read it all.
— — —

Continuing Coverage of Canadian Court Ruling on Polyamory

Alan continues to have excellent coverage of the ruling by the B.C. court on polyamory and polygamy.

Poly people continue to face legal discrimination. They can live together all of their lives, but can't get a legal or publicly-recognized marriage. If this isn't inequality, what is?
— — —

Saturday, November 26, 2011

Not Surprised: Sex is Good For Older People, Too

The acronym “GSA” is usually used around here for Genetic Sexual Attraction or Gay-Straight Alliance. But this time it stands for Gerontological Society of America. Gerontology is the study of aging and the elderly.

The more often older married individuals engage in sexual activity, the more likely they are to be happy with both their lives and marriages, according to new research presented in Boston at The Gerontological Society of America’s (GSA) 64th Annual Scientific Meeting.

Sex is good. Is that a surprise?

The data analysis was conducted by Adrienne Jackson, PT, PhD, MPA, an assistant professor at Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University.

“This study will help open the lines of communication and spark interest in developing ‘outside the box’ approaches to dealing with resolvable issues that limit or prevent older adults from participating in sexual activity,” said Jackson.

This is where the 13-year-old boy who still exists in my brain makes a silly joke about it actually being inside the box.

“Highlighting the relationship between sex and happiness will help us in developing and organizing specific sexual health interventions for this growing segment of our population.”

Based on the survey responses of 238 married individuals age 65 years or older, Jackson discovered that frequency of sexual activity was a significant predictor of both general and marital happiness. The association even remained after accounting for factors such as age, gender, health status, and satisfaction with financial situation.

I wonder what the results would show for unmarried, but sexually active people, and people in longer-term relationships that have been denied the freedom to marry?

Relating this a little more to our main issue here at Full Marriage Equality, sometimes older people will find lovers or even spouses who are much younger. There are people who continue to frown on this, though more so when the relationship is an older woman with a younger man, perhaps a lingering effect of the mentality that women are supposed to be financially dependent on men and birth babies (or, sex is only for reproduction.) In addition to all of the other challenges to this mentality, people are living longer, and there’s no reason why people should have to give up sex if they still want it. Intergenerational relationships can be mutually beneficial, and this study is more proof of that.

Something else that happens and is not often talked about is widowed, divorced, or never married older people finding full companionship with a relative, such as a cousin or sibling.
— — —

Friday, November 25, 2011

Nothing is Wrong With People Who Enjoy Sex

Yasmin Sattarzadeh wrote about incest, including both consanguinamory (consensual sex) and rape/assault/molestation under that label. The negativity expressed towards the consensual sex sounds very familiar.

There is one word that is almost always linked with the urge to run and hide: incest.

That is why I like the term “consanguinamory” for consensual relationships.

But what does incest entail and why do some people engage in interfamilial relationships?

For many of the same reasons people have sex in general. Because they’re in love, because it feels good, because they’re curious, because they want to strengthen a bond…

The origin of incestuous behavior and its ongoing practice remains a puzzle; its beginning is ancient and has been touched on in many religious texts around the world. It doesn’t help that talks about incest, especially in the West, have been tabooed and avoided.

No, that certainly doesn’t help.

In legal terminology, incest often includes unions between non-biological and biological relatives. According to a 1995 study by Maddock and Larson, sibling-to-sibling unions appear to be the most common form of consanguineous, or common ancestral, mating. This may still be the case today, but as far as the majority of Western society is concerned, individuals who engage in incest are usually considered sex offenders.

They shouldn’t be, if we’re talking about consensual sex.

Perhaps the lack of public and consensual incestuous relationships leads many people to conclude that all incestuous relationships are forced.

There’s a catch there. People don’t go public because they fear prosecution, bullying, and discrimination. Since they don’t go public, others don’t because they feel isolated. Thus, there is a lack of pressure to chance the laws.

If not out of force, or simple malevolent wrongdoing, incest may be a symptom of neurological deficit.

That’s what uptight people have said in the past about everything from masturbation to oral sex to gay sex to naturism to interracial relationships.

Five Torontonian researchers published a 1998 article in the journal Annals of Sex Research containing various studies that found a relationship between brain defects and unusual sexual behaviour. At that time, “the most interesting and best controlled study to date” was a blind study which found that 22 per cent of 86 patients with unusual sexual tendencies demonstrated sexual irregularities associated with specific patterns found in the temporal lobes of the brain.

How is it a defect that different activities are associated with different parts of the brain? That isn’t a defect.

In addition, 25 per cent of the incestuous individuals were pedophiles — a particular pattern of brain pathology was found in the left temporal frontal areas of the pedophilic brain.

This is exactly the same kind of nonsense used to slur gays for so many years. Guess what? Who is going to be an easier target for a rapist or molester than their own child? It is terrible to insinuate that consensual sex between adults is like raping or molesting.

This is pure conjecture, but the sheer resistance to the idea makes you wonder whether or not there are more people out there that have these desires or wishes.

If Internet traffic is any indication, a whole lot.

But the infamous psychoanalyst Carl Jung explored the incestuous fantasies in families in his book, Psychology of the Unconscious. In it, Jung describes this phenomenon as “kinship libido,” which is necessary in achieving good experiences in early life. “Incest fueled desire” is said to be a part of normal human love that healthy families cannot do without.


Some people develop an aversion to consanguineous sex (the cited Westermarck effect), some don't. Then there's Genetic Sexual Attraction, when close biological relatives reunite after being separated and after the younger one has also gone through puberty; absent the Westermarck effect, there is a strong attraction.

Consensual consanguineous sex has been a part of humanity all along, from royals to peasants, rich to poor, urban to rural, everything from youthful experimentation to lifelong relationships.

The fact is, there are healthy, well-adjusted, well-rounded, attractive, otherwise law-abiding people in consanguinamorous relationships, even with healthy children together. Most will not come out of the closet for fear of prosecution or persecution, but there is no good reason to keep laws or taboos against consensual consanguineous relationships. Personal disgust or religion is why any one person might not want to be in such a relationship, but that should not be binding on others.
— — —

Thursday, November 24, 2011

Uneven Freedoms to Marry

Out of Baton Rouge, Louisiana, Parker Cramer brought up something recently covered here. He starts with this ridiculous statement…

Who doesn't love a baby with seven toes and a tail?

The question may seem silly, but a friend pointed out to me last week that you can legally marry your first cousin in nearly half the states in this country.

Most first cousins who have children together have healthy children.

You can legally marry your first cousin in 18 out of the 50 states with no exception, according to, a website which helps facilitate consanguineous marriages. You can marry your cousin with certain exceptions in seven other states.

So let's see if my math is correct (and it most likely is since my parents are not cousins). There are 18 states that allow cousins to marry with no exceptions, plus the seven states that allow cousins to marry with a few exceptions equals 25 total states — half of the country.

Every state should allow adult first cousins to marry.

While cousins may be able to marry each other in half the country, same-sex marriage is only legal in seven states, including Washington, D.C., according to NPR.

Every state should allow adults of the same sex to marry.

The ignorance is restated…

Nothing is sacred about marrying your first cousin and having a merry gang of offspring that strangely resemble the victims of Chernobyl.

Why hate on cousin couples? Everyone should have the right to marry. An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults. A man should be free to marry another man, even if that man is his cousin.
— — —

Wednesday, November 23, 2011

Speaking Out For the Polygamous Freedom to Marry

The piece on a television station's website began with this shocking statement…

Not all polygamists live in walled compounds or wear dresses. Many live among us in normal neighborhoods and wear normal clothes.

Okay, so it isn’t really shocking. It is what I’ve said all along. Those who are being denied marriage equality are your neighbors, you coworkers, your teachers, your police officers, your firefighters.

Anne Wilde is one of those women. She said the bond between sister wives is a good thing. She is dedicated to educating others about plural families and their culture.

Good for her!

Wilde said there are many families in the Salt Lake area living among us, but living in silence.

That’s wrong, that people would have to hide their love.

Wilde was married for nine years in a monogamous relationship. After a divorce, she remarried into a plural family. She was a sister wife for 33 years, until her husband’s recent death.

Kim Kardashian can get married on television for 72 days, and it is all legal. But Wilde was married for thirty-three years without legal recognition, or full freedom. This is a horrible inequality.

“Please don't criticize us for forming a family. We are not breaking any other law, we're tax payers, we're not abusive to our children, and there's no domestic violence.”

Wilde is the co-author of the book “Voices in Harmony” and co-founder of the non profit organization “Principle Voices.”

She’s another example of why we need full marriage equality.

Meanwhile, the Dargers report the positive results of coming out

We wanted to find out how "coming out" has changed things for Joe, Alina, Valerie, Vickie and their children so, we went to visit with the family at their Herriman home.

Don: "Since you went on television and went public, what has changed?"
Alina: "I had some people come up and say wow - I never knew." "We've had a lot of people from all over the country reach out and identify with us and just say this is a different side of polygamy that I didn't know existed."
Joe: "Its been very liberating for me."
Vickie: "Some of the moms have come up and said, I think its great and I support you and I dont have any problem with your lifestyle. I feel like it has been mostly positive."

But the bigots will be bigots…

Don: "Have you lost clients or customers since this changed."
Joe: "We had a person write a comment in the paper, oh, I know him and I will never do business with him again."

A woman should be free to marry a married man, or another woman, or her own sister, or all three. How does that hurt anyone else?

In light of today's ruling by the B.C. court, be sure to check out the list of Discredited Arguments against freedoms to marry and full marriage equality, and good answers to them.
— — —

The Absurdity of Canadian, American Laws Against Polygamy

Alan, as usual, provides great coverage of breaking news, this time regarding the ruling in the B.C. court upholding the ban on the polygamous freedom to marry.

In most of the US (not all) and Canada, it is legal for people to be nonmonogamous in general, and polyamorous specifically. They can date multiple people, love multiple people, have sex with multiple people, live with multiple people, have children with multiple people, and so forth. But they can't get married. A man can have children with three different women. He can have them all live with him. He can live as though he's married to all of them, but not get legal recognition. A woman can live and love with two other women, but only marry one of them (in most US states, she still can't marry either of them.) A woman can have two men live with her, love them both, have children by both of them, but can't get legal recognition.

What kind of sense is that?

This denial of their freedom to marry leaves them vulnerable, against their choice, to complications and discrimination. An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults, without fear of prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.
— — —

Breaking: Freedom to Marry Denied in Canada

The B.C Supreme Court has upheld the country’s law banning polygamy. B.C. Supreme Court Chief Justice Robert Bauman decided Wednesday that Canada's polygamy law is constitutional but flawed.

Outrageous. How can consenting adults be denied the right to marry? Canada has been making progress; the same-sex freedom to marry is recognized. But it needs to move to full marriage equality so that an adult is free to share marriage with any consenting adults.

This decision must be appealed.

There will be more coverage later, of course.
— — —

Tuesday, November 22, 2011

Was There a Re-Run?

There's been much interest as of late in an apparent GSA relationship revealed on a talk show, and some more comments left on the entry I wrote about it. I figure the show must have repeated or is airing in new markets.
— — —

Monday, November 21, 2011

Some More Reaction to Mother-Daughter Lingerie Ads

I covered this story here. The New York Daily News had this poll:

Do you think the ads are inappropriate?
Yes, they're creepy!
No - they're models!
I'm not sure

How about “The ads are beautiful!” or “There’s nothing inappropriate about a grown daughter and her mother being comfortable or even affectionate with each other!”

Here was a perspective at

I know I've changed clothes in the same room as my mom many a time, but it's true that I'm unlikely to pose poutily with her while we lie on the floor. I don't think the ads are meant to suggest an incestuous relationship between the two women, but given the sexualized nature of lingerie ads, a mother-daughter campaign just seems like a bad idea. I don't want to think about my mom when purchasing sexy underwear, and I'll wager she doesn't want to think about me.

That’s okay. There are actually women, though, who do want to think about that. They’re the minority, but they do exist. And there are many men who like that idea. Some of those men buy lingerie for women.

Be sure to read Macha's great comments on these ads.
— — —

Sunday, November 20, 2011

There Are Many Forms of Nonmonogamy

Michele Freeman talks cheating, divorce, and nonmonogamy.

However, given that half the people interviewed in the latest Relationships Australia Survey felt that a reason people don’t marry is because of the desire to have multiple relationships, the premise of ‘freedom’ that the movie was built on is an interesting one.

She notes…

For many of us, it can be difficult to imagine what polyamory might look like. Without the usual pop culture cues and media representations afforded to more common relationship structures, our reaction tends to be that it is all a little bit, well, shocking.

It would be good to have more portrayals in media. This reality is also why it is important for LGBT characters and celebrities with relationships to be depicted.

Yet when I immerse myself in the world of mainstream media and websites, there is a wealth of material on the ‘crisis’ of monogamy; columns on settling versus not settling, comic pieces on dates nights and the need to keep romance alive, to laments about the heartbreak of cheating partners, and life after divorce at 40.

Reading these pieces, I can’t help but wonder: could polyamory, which is built around gender equality, free choice, mutual trust and equal respect, be a happy alternative to the flailing institution of long-term monogamy?

For some, yes.

And is the very community that embrace it, sometimes doing the idea a disserve with its own muddled understandings, lack of clear communication, and righteous indignation it flings at anyone who dares struggle with the confronting feelings that can come with having an open relationship?

Nonmonogamists do need to be mindful of representation. That is a reality for anyone who has been discriminated against.

She goes on to write about problems caused by a lack of communication.

It should be clear. Polyamory does not mean leading someone to believe you are monogamous with them while seeing others. Polyamory requires clear agreements. As such, there can still be cheating when there is polyamory, by violating an agreement.

I do think we’ll see more, longer, and happier marriages with less cheating under full marriage equality as adults are freed to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults, without being prosecuted, bullied, or discriminated against.
— — —

Transgender Day of Remembrance

This is today.

Remember that hate kills.

Love heals.

Are you a lover or a hater?
— — —

Saturday, November 19, 2011

Monogamy vs. Polyamory Again?

Cara Santa Maria talks nerdy in answering “Is Monogamy Natural?” She also gets into the “normal” label.

Regardless of labels, a central theme seems to be emerging in contemporary sexuality research: monogamy is not natural. This is not a moral opinion. This statement does not imply that monogamy is or is not somehow healthy or right for human culture or individual happiness. It also does not imply that monogamy is an unattainable goal for those striving to attain it. It simply means that monogamy does not seem to fit well within the natural landscape, especially that of our evolutionary predecessors.

As I am always quick to note, whether or not a relationship is natural should not determine whether or not it is good for someone to be in such a relationship. We allow each other many things that clearly aren’t natural. I think our collective experience proves that monogamy is what is best for some people, and polyamory is best for others. And that’s okay.

Tinamarie Bernard tackled “Which is Superior, Monogamy or Polyamory?”

My opinion is that the answer to that question depends on who is involved. But what does she say?

Arguing, implying or insisting that polyamory is more natural or the next step in sexual-evolution, as I have observed in both private and public discourse, takes us down the same sort of rabbit hole that derails discussions about same-sex marriage. Hierarchical debate ultimately leads nowhere; it’s an exercise in ego, not of Eros, and perpetuates sexual wounding. While love knows no boundaries, as I’ve oft asserted, sometimes we learn best by setting limits on the number of relationships we have, or the number of people with whom we engage intimately...and sometimes we don’t.
— — —

Friday, November 18, 2011

Reproductive Freedom

At PrawfsBlawg I found “Incest, Surrogacy, Abstinence Education Funding, Single Parent Reproduction...or What's Wrong with the Regulation of Reproduction.”

It starts with these questions…

Should the state permit anonymous sperm donation? Should brother-sister incest between adults be made criminal? Should individuals over the age of fifty be allowed access to reproductive technologies? Should the state fund abstinence education?

Then, we get this…

One common form of justification that is offered to answer these and a myriad of other reproductive policy questions is concern for the best interests of the children that will result, absent state intervention, from these forms of reproduction. This focus on the Best Interests of the Resulting Child (BIRC) is, on the surface, quite understandable and stems from a transposition of a central organizing principle of family law justifying state intervention - the protection of the best interests of existing children - visible in areas such as adoption, child custody, and child removal.

I have looked at some of the same issues in Discredited Arguments #6, 17, and 18. This seems to back me up…

Drawing on insights from bioethics and the philosophy of identity (especially Derek Parfit’s work), I show why the BIRC justification, at least stated as such, is problematic both as a normative and constitutional matter: unless the state’s failure to intervene would foist upon the child a “life not worth living,” any attempt to alter whether, when, or with whom an individual reproduces cannot be justified on the basis that harm will come to the resulting child, since but for that intervention the child would not exist. Nevertheless, I show that BIRC arguments are frequently relied upon by courts, legislatures, and scholars to justify these interventions. At a doctrinal level the Article also shows that this reliance on BIRC justifications is in tension with the implicit rejection of similar reasoning by courts unwilling to recognize wrongful life torts.

It’s quite wonky, but if you’re into that sort of thing, go read it.

Overall, “But what about children?” is not a justification for denying full marriage equality as public policy.
— — —

Thursday, November 17, 2011

The Dargers Will Be on ABC Friday Night

ABC News had more coverage of the Dargers.

Polygamy is illegal in the United States and the Dargers know the decision to go public exposes their family to the danger of potential prosecution. They insist, though, that the time has come for those laws to change and for the misconceptions they see about their faith to be corrected.

"For change to be effective people have to be willing to stand for a principle of what's correct, even if that's uncomfortable for society as a whole," Joe Darger said. "We are law abiding citizens in every other way. I'm in a felonious relationship and that's a decision that we made and we have to explain."

For those of us in the US, the Dargers are going to be on ABC’s "20/20" Friday, November 18 at 10 p.m. ET.
— — —

Update on Prosecution of Consenting Adults in Singapore

Here’s the latest in a case I previously wrote about here.

A 24-year-old woman who had sex with her father, pleaded guilty to incest yesterday.

The technical executive is the first woman in Singapore to be charged with incest.

They were consenting adults. This shouldn’t be a criminal matter.

According to earlier reports, father and daughter were always close. When the girl became a teenager she attended drinking session with her father and his friends at coffee shops.

Their relationship became intimate in 2006 when they started hugging and kissing. She was 18 years old then.

Over time, they progressed to touching and fondling each other's private parts when they were alone in the family flat.

On the day of the incident, they had an argument while he was lying on the bed in the master bedroom and she was checking her e-mails on her laptop at the edge of the bed.

She apologised to him and he asked for a hug. Things progressed and they eventually had sex that night.

The police got involved in a convoluted way, initiated by her.

There will be another hearing in a month's time, when a judge will decide if the woman should be given probation or a jail term.

If she should have been charged with anything, she should have been charged with making a false report to police. There should be no criminal sentence for consensual sex. An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults.
— — —

Bigots Freak Out About Beautiful Lingerie Ad

Some of The Lake And Stars ads selling lingerie are causing controversy. Why? The models are a mother and her adult daughter and they are touching. Oh, the horror! See the ads here.

There’s Lauren Rosenblum’s reaction

Sexy? Beautiful? Extremely awkward? We just can't decide.

Why can’t it be sexy, beautiful and sweet? Or playful and innocent?

The mother and daughter pictured in the campaign are not models by trade, Zilberman said. They are just her next-door neighbors in Brooklyn, everyday women, who seem to have an interesting relationship. "They're always so loving and tender towards each other," Zilberman said.

"That's what really drives the collection and what drives the photos: these women who are experiencing something that we're not necessarily experiencing. I wanted to present portraits of them so that people would see the chemistry that they have. I think it's really rare, you don't see a lot of that."

No, we certainly don't see mother-daughter duos embracing in sheer underthings. Scantily clad women is nothing new in fashion advertisements, but there is something extremely unconventional about the way The Lake And Stars had the mother-daughter pair pose so provocatively.

First of all, there is nothing going on in the ads. This prejudice against closeness between family members is very sad. Secondly, even if the relationship is consanguinamorous, then where’s the harm? They are both adults. Let them have the relationship they want with each other, whatever that does or does not entail.

I think some of the people protesting or expressing discomfort at these ads “protest too much.”

Here’s another take, with the title “And Now Here’s Your Incest,” prompted by the above piece.

I’m really not understanding the world. Is it me?

Here is the designer’s rationalizing gobbledygook of idiocy.

What’s the idiocy? Notice there’s no explanation about what the problem is.

norman Einstein…

The idea of getting sexy with your parents is REPUGNANT, and that is for a REASON.

And that would be…?

And that was one of the "better" comments. There’s a lot of hate and paranoia expressed, but no actual defense of their disgust. I don’t think these people got a lot of hugs from their parents.

Elsewhere, Gina Marinelli wrote

Designers Nikki Dekker and Maayan Zilberman, who are also setting up a two-week The Lake & Stars + SOFlab installation by BOFFO Building Fashion 2011, seek to portray how a woman feels when she slips into The Lake & Stars by highlighting each woman's personal sense of confidence, despite standing next to her offspring and mother while dressed only in bras and panties. Side by side, mother and daughter pose together in a way we have never seen before. Though we can't imagine convincing our own mothers to try for this kind of holiday family photo, come Decemeber, we'll definitely be emailing our own Hot Mommas this link.

Surprise, surprise… Fox News freaked out

“These ads are highly suggestive. They are clearly designed to titillate consumers; mostly men. The incestuous and lesbian suggestions, with the phallic images of cactus and logs, are juvenile at best,” psychologist Dr. Nancy Irwin told FOX411’s Pop Tarts column. “I'm disgusted, yet hardly surprised by this. Advertisers (particularly of undergarments) continuously push the envelope on good taste to simply get attention and drive sales."

However, the company's owner said they were shocked that the campaign had garnered such a negative reaction.

"We're surprised that people are reacting with such violently negative connotations such as incest, given that we were only making light of a healthy and beautiful relationship between two women... something we think people in our culture are often uncomfortable with, especially when there is so much focus on competition and gossip,” said Lake and Stars’ owner Maayan Zilberman.

The world would be better off with more women, whether mothers and daughters or sisters or complete strangers got along this well.

New York Magazine rightly laughed at Fox News.

After all, is it really so beyond weird for mothers and daughters to be together in their underwear? And if we're going to be literal, don't a lot of mother-daughter traditions actually involve sharing a changing room? (Trying on prom or wedding dresses, for example.) But on the other hand, those logs! Disgusting.

This reminds me of these earlier postings:

Mother and Son Affectionate, Bigots Freak Out

Sophie Monk and Her Brother

Icing Love?
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Know Your Options, Know Yourself

Over at Adventures of a Little Monster, the blogger may be polyamorous

My biggest problems come from having been groomed for monogamy my whole life. I never ever would have imagined myself in a poly relationship, mostly because I didn’t know they really existed outside of those crazy cult people. I (wrongly) assumed that jealousy would be the correct response when you find out your partner loves someone else as well. I thought human beings were meant to be in one relationship at a time. Obviously, all of this has been proven wrong, at least to me.

I have no problem with anyone touting the benefits of monogamy, and their own positive experiences with monogamy. What I do have a problem with is shouting down polyamorists and preventing them from demonstrating that some people enjoy successful relationships as polyamorists. So many people could have avoided so many problems if they would have seen that there is such a thing as ethical, honest nonmonogamy. Shows like “Sister Wives” are giving a glimpse into one specific form of polyamory, but it would be nice to have some more popular media depicting other forms of polyamory.

My advice to people who aren't sure whether they are poly or not is to think about what they've learned about themselves from experience. Date, but do not promise monogamy to anyone unless you are reasonably certain you want monogamy, you can be monogamous, and you want it with that person. With each relationship or even date, you learn more about the kind of people with whom you can be happy, and the kind of relationship in which you'll function best.
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Wednesday, November 16, 2011

Polly Signs Off, For Now

As I previously reported, Polly decided to pull the plug on her excellent blog giving insight into life in the kind of polyamorous family you might have next door in a quiet suburb; the kind of family you might find behind a white picket fence, playing on their lawn.

She has just put up her last message at the current blog.
...I am still the wife of two loving men, the mother of four wonderful children, and we are living our lives openly and happily. We are still here.

She goes on...
I can attest that families with more than one partner can work, and they can work well. Our children are thriving with the additional support and attention that comes with having more than two parents who care for them. Their grades are good, they are healthy, and they laugh a lot. The adults in the family appreciate the support we provide for each other as well, both in our careers and our home lives. We enjoy a greater level of financial stability than many other large families, we have many hands to assist with household tasks, and we rely on each other emotionally and intellectually as spouses.

We are "out" at work, at church, and in our personal lives. This has been difficult at times, but ultimately worth it. Being ourselves has been freeing and much more healthy than being closeted.

She goes on to give some warnings and advice, and lists some of their victories.

I'm looking forward to her book.
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With Friends Like Her…

All kinds of interesting stuff can be found on Yahoo Answers once you get past the trolls. I found one recent questioner to be quite disturbed Someone calling herself “Anna Feagan” wrote this

How do I report Incest???!?
Hello, I live in the state of Oregon and I have a friend age 20, Female. And she lives with her dad, about 20 minutes away from me and They both told be they have sex all the time for the last 3 years, and they love it..

I wonder why they would tell Anna that?

He is her Biological Father. I personaly feel disgusted and it's wrong!

We’re not all going to want each other’s sex lives.

I want to report this, But who do I contact? Is it as simple as calling 911? or the police station? What do I do?? Please let me know what you know. thank you so much!

Why call the police and report that two adults are having sex with each other in their own home?

I wrote…

They are both adults[*see below]. So what if you're disgusted? I know lesbians who are disgusted by the thought of any man having sex with any woman. Should they call the police, too? Your friend can consent to join the military, operate heavy machinery, sign contracts, buy property, vote, and have sex with a complete stranger. Why shouldn't she be free to have sex with someone she loves? How about you mind your own business? There are probably things about your love life other people don't like. An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults. Don't waste the time of law enforcement.

Kenneth C wrote…

Incest is technically illegal and I would call the local police station directly.

But he goes on to conclude with…

Unless your friend is having sex with her father against her will, leave it alone and mind your business.

Couman got it right…

Why do you want to get your "friend" arrested? Not much of a friend, are you?

aeriol7 was clueless…

Be afraid more for you friend Anna. This has to stop.

She chose whitehorsequest as giving the best answer…

I am not sure what the police can do either. I agree this has to stop but without proof.....what can be done.

Anna then restated her opinion of her friend’s relationship…

And to everuone else, Incest in my oppinion is perverted, harmful and dicusting. I didn't ask for ur oppinion, I asked for help.

How sad that someone would feel such an obsessive need to intrude into someone else’s happiness.

Reading between the lines, especially with “She lives with her dad” and “He is her Biological Father,” my guess is that this could have been a Genetic Sexual Attraction situation with the daughter being reunited with her father a few years ago. Anna has not indicated that she otherwise noticed a problem with her friend, or a negative change in her friend. *If all of Anna’s facts are right, then it does appear that the sex started before her friend was of the age of consent in Oregon. The focus of this blog is consenting adults; I do not focus on whether or not the age of consent should be changed or made consistent from state to state. However, it appears from Anna’s own report that her friend is happy, and since she is 20, Ann should let her friend be.

I would like to believe Anna is a troll. But even if she is, how many Annas are there out there, willing to hurt others who aren’t hurting anyone? This is why people in consanguinamorous relationships have to be very careful about the people they keep in their lives and what they reveal to people.
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Some Monogamists Have a Second Spouse

Jayne Keedle’s article, “Work Life: Polygamy in the Workplace,” talks about the cultural reality of having an “office spouse.” The use of “polygamy” is tongue in cheek; most such relationships aren’t sexual. But some polyamorists maintain that not all polyamorous relationships are sexual, so perhaps there is some unintended truth to referring to these workplace relationships as polygamous in the case of someone who has a parter.

Certainly, our schedule of long hours, late nights, and working weekends meant we often spent more time together than we did with our significant others, but were we being inappropriately intimate when we huddled together over his computer to look at layouts? Were people reading too much into the fact that we liked to spend lunch hours doing the New York Magazine crossword puzzle together?

The term "office spouse" has been in the vernacular for a number of years now (it was famously used to describe President George W. Bush's relationship with Condoleezza Rice), but its definition remains somewhat nebulous. Dr. Jacqueline Olds, a clinical professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has studied the phenomenon, defines a work spouse as "a person at work with whom you have a special relationship in which you share confidences, loyalties, experiences and a degree of honesty and openness."

The article cities statistics about such relationships and goes into the potential problems and the potential benefits. Certainly, many people have close relationships with multiple people; an actual spouse, a coworker, a best friend, a sibling. For others, their spouse is their best friend, and sometimes their coworker, and even their sibling or parent.
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Tuesday, November 15, 2011

Still a Happy Triad

This blog is about achieving full marriage equality and related issues, not me, Keith. But this time around, I’m necessarily part of the story. I have interviewed my good friends before, but this interview is more of a chat between four people, led mostly by me, than me interviewing three people. I had an idea what they were going to say, as I already knew the answers to most of my questions, but I wanted to allow others to get a glimpse of what amounts to a marriage that is denied legal recognition.

I strongly recommend reading previous entries about my friends. To make a long story as short as possible, "Linda" was a good friend of mine before we started dating on a casual basis because we enjoyed each other’s company. (And because she’s hot.) Linda had two children when she was very young, both of whom were adopted and raised separately by other people. Linda’s biological daughter, Melissa, got in contact with her, and came to meet her. Because of what was likely Genetic Sexual Attraction, they got together (both women can be described as bisexual). Since I’m open-minded and they’re open-minded and Linda and I did not have a commitment to be monogamous with each other, I was able to see their love and support it. As a result, I was still around when Linda’s other child, Matthew, reunited with her and met his sister Melissa. Matthew, also experiencing GSA, didn’t stand a chance of avoiding the inevitable. They became a happy triad, I became inspired to blog for full marriage equality, and I’m still around.

The transcript is below...


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Friday, November 11, 2011

Finally on Twitter

Follow me on Twitter!
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Discussing Genetic Sexual Attraction and General Consanguinamory

Consanguinamory and consanguineous sex in general is, unfortunately, illegal in many places under “incest” laws that criminalize consensual sex between adults. And persecution of those who have engaged in consanguineous sex is widespread. There appears to be slightly more acceptance of those who enter into such relationships via Genetic Sexual Attraction (GSA), but not much.

Those experiencing Genetic Sexual Attraction who want help in managing those feelings to avoid ever acting on them, or to avoid acting on them again, can find some very helpful information and people at That site is also helpful for those who are having problems dealing with someone who has these feelings. It must be GSA (by their definition) and only between two people, otherwise it will not be a welcome topic there. Also, they discourage frank descriptions of events and feelings that they think might induce sexual thoughts in people trying to resist their attractions.

But for other people, experiencing GSA or not, who have 1) experienced mutual attraction with, or unrequited attraction for, one or more family members or close relatives; 2) experienced or want to experience consensual sex with one or more family members or close relatives ...and journalists, academics, social scientists, or other researchers interested in the above, there are other places to go.

Most of those discussion forums have “incest” somewhere in their name. Most of them are full of noise and nonsense. For positive discussion of consanguineous sex, I recommend the Incestuous Lovers forum as the best free-to-the-user forum.

You will need to become a member of the forum in order to see or participate in discussions there. They are friendly and welcoming people, so long as you aren’t there to cause trouble or violate their easy-to-follow rules. So go ahead and sign up to read and join the discussions. Whether or not you do, you are always welcome to comment right here on this blog on any of my postings.

If you know of other good places I do not list in the column on the right under "Helpful Links," let me know.
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Thursday, November 10, 2011

When Opposites Attract

One of the most popular authorities on polyamory, Dr. Deborah Taj Anapol, Ph.D., wrote about “mixed marriages,” meaning a monogamous person with a polyamorous the person and the issue of wanting to explore polyamory but being in a relationship with someone who is not enthusiastic about that idea.

Having also worked with many men and women who've chosen to maintain a facade of monogamy while indulging their desire for loving more on the sly, I know that while cheating may look like the easy way out, in the long run it's not. But openly persisting in polyamorous experimentation may well ignite fireworks.

Of course, it's equally tough for the monogamous partner who can't understand why he or she is not enough and is firmly convinced that three - not to mention four or five - is a crowd. Unable to grasp the possibility of more than one lover, the besieged traditionalist may live in constant fear that they will be replaced at the first opportunity with someone more desirable, more adventurous, and less uptight. Worse yet, he or she may suffer from jealousy or other dreadful feelings of shame, sin, and moral indignation even though he/she knows there's not a snowball's chance in hell of losing their partner.

Her advice includes…

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Wednesday, November 9, 2011

Will the Brown Lawsuit Include the US Government?

According to this report in the Salt Lake Tribune, the lawsuit by the Browns against Utah for their right to polyamory may get the US government involved.

The United States government may become a defendant in a reality-show family’s lawsuit challenging Utah’s law banning polygamy.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints renounced polygamy as a condition of statehood, required by the Utah Enabling Act of 1894. With that in mind, U.S. District Judge Clark Waddoups has asked attorneys for the Brown family, stars of the TLC show “Sister Wives,” and the state of Utah to show why the U.S. should not also be added as a defendant in the case.

The attorneys will present their arguments in a hearing scheduled for Dec. 16.

It would be nice if the US Supreme Court would take up and consolidate the various cases sooner rather than later and issue a ruling that that an adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults, but I’m not holding my breath. It would be nice, though, rather than having all of these different court cases going back and forth with freedoms being added in pieces.
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Will Civil Rights Win on November 23?

That’s when the decision over polyamory and polygamy will be issued by the British Columbia Supreme Court.

Will the right to marry and freedom of association prevail?

Will Canada move further towards full marriage equality?

Will adults in Canada be free to marry the persons they love?

Here’s my last entry on this case.
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Tuesday, November 8, 2011

A Family in Which the Love is Hidden

It is always painful to read of love that has to be hidden and is haunted by the threat of outside interference, especially when it could break up a family. morbitron wrote at

hi... i have a major problem. ive been having sex with my sister for 3 years now. it was all fine and dandy at first but there's a problem. we have a two year old daughter and im afraid of how she will grow up... ive been trying to keep it a secret from my family but its getting harder. i feel terrible for the child because if people find out then she will have to go the rest of her life as the girl who's mom and dad are brother and sister... ive decided that all i can do is just walk away and let my sister raise her. i pay my child support and thats all i can do. i feel like such a bad person for all of this because she will always wonder who her father is. its not fair to her but i don't know whats worse, that or the stigma i talked about earlier. am i a bad person or this?

It sounds like the daughter doesn’t know that he is her biological father, but he’s been the primary male role model in her life. Whether she knows or not, since she is two years old and he has been around the whole time, she is bonded to him.

It is terrible that they have to hide the truth. It would be so much better for everyone if the law, the community, and the family were all accepting of this loving relationship rather than condemning. He gives no indication that the child has suffered any ill effects; he’s worried about bullies acting on prejudice against consanguinamorous relationships. This is not a matter of incest as rape. This is a love story. He should stay with his sister and be there for the child he has helped make. It would be best if they could legally marry, if that is what they want.

Platypus responded…

I understand that your situation is a difficult one. However what's done, is done. Walking away from your sister and child does not change what has happened between you and your sister.

Why are you trying to keep it a secret from your family?

My guess is that they are hiding it for the same reason so many other consensual relationships that do not involve cheating are hidden: they want to avoid prejudice.

What does your sister want you to do? I imagine that you daughter would not want you to leave. Whatever your relation to her mother, she probably only sees you as her father. You are her daddy.

Walking away may be the easiest thing to do but you probably have other choices.

They should move to where they will not be prosecuted. They shouldn't have to move, but many places still have laws against this love and prosecutors and judges who still interfere.

There are many other people facing the same issues, which is one reason we need full marriage equality sooner rather than later.
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Genetic Sexual Attraction Can Lead to Lasting Love

This, below, was sent to me to be published by someone who is in a relationship that involves genetic sexual attraction. She is happily in a consanguinamorous relationship with her father. She had written this to someone else, and thought it would be good to be published on this blog, and I'm thankful for that.


There seems to be little acknowledgment of the need of some of us to relate in a physical way in order to 'bond'. There is also no acceptance of the real maelstrom of emotions that grip us in reunion and find ourselves over the so-called line before we even understand what is happening to us. I fear that it makes it impossible for some people to reach out to people who truly do understand what they are going through at a time in their lives when they desperately need support.

There is a general lack of understanding that like ALL relationships... GSA couples have just as much chance of succeeding or failing as any other. The texture of our intimacy may be different but we are no more or less likely to make it work. I don't believe society in general can credibly back up a statement that 'conventional' heterosexual relationships have a better chance than any other in today's world.

There are a myriad of 'moral', 'social' and 'taboo' reactions to us but along with that comes the advantages no one outside of GSA can really understand. Our connection as a couple... our ability to effectively communicate with each other... to 'feel' what the other is feeling, to be willing to ease the other's pain because of our bond, making subjugation of our own individual agendas (or the need to be right at all costs) in order to put the other person's happiness before our own is a much easier task for us than it was in conventional relationships. Ego rarely gets in the way of resolving a conflict.

The bad? We cannot be public for fear of legal prosecution. We cannot socialize as a couple. We cannot share our happiness with people outside our home that are important to us fully (we can share some of it via our biological relationship, but not all). We are unable to stake a claim to one another if someone outside expresses a romantic interest in one of us. We cannot make our commitment to each other legal which has financial consequences should either of us become ill or die. (What we can do, we have done via our wills- but our pension plans and tax benefits cannot be shared)

Separately. we each have to control our reactions when others 'come on' to one of us. That also applies to how we share ordinary everyday details of our lives with the outside world-everything has to run through an editor in our heads. I think both my father and I have to work on our grief or loss over our original biological relationship and I think that perhaps that is harder for me than for my father. He had girls to raise as daughters; I had no father.

All of the things we work on separately we have to discuss together. It is important to both of us that as we navigate our own personal journey through loss of the original relationship or jealousy... that we understand each other's struggles and agree on how to handle the outside world. We both became very pragmatic about handling financial matters (i.e. our wills) knowing that we cannot change society, only ourselves. We've done the best we can under these circumstances to not let the outside world's judgment influence our commitment to each other legally or emotionally more than we have to.

Another area we went through together was incorporating our grief and our new connection into what we already understood and believed. Both of us were already socially liberal. The illegality put on GSA relationships was not that big of a hurdle. What was difficult, initially, was our long lasting guilt built up over the years created by the taboo of 'shoulds' and 'shouldn'ts'. We shouldn't have been attracted to each other, we should be father and daughter, we shouldn't 'act on it', we should try to 'normalize' our relationship etc., etc., etc. During this process we talked, talked, talked about our feelings and beliefs. We came to see our physical relationship as part of the healing process and as a replacement for all the things we had lost-interestingly we came to those conclusions long before either of us had heard of GSA.

It was only when we found a place for discussion that the idea of 'crossing the line' being somehow inherently wrong was presented to us. In hindsight I am glad we found our own understanding before being bombarded by our own community's judgment. I used to say I wish I had known about GSA before our reunion and perhaps that still applies to our first reunion when I was a teenager (so we could have avoided castigating ourselves privately for being perverts and running from each other without acknowledging to each other what we were feeling)... but not this time when we reunited as adults (by talking through our feelings together without influence of other GSAers who think 'crossing the line' is the end of the world, we were able to see what the physical aspect of our relationship really was-a way to bond and connect.

We decided for ourselves should our intimate relationship not work, we were as committed to maintaining our father daughter relationship as any two people could be-we did not have the doom and gloom predictors telling us it was impossible once the line was crossed. I now know, regardless of anyone else's experience, that we are right. You CAN cross the line and be okay. It CAN be a path to healing. You CAN retreat from it and stay in a relationship (I know several people who have without losing each other). You CAN be intimate with each other and committed to one another and be successful over the long term. The problem for a lot of people, in my opinion, is the conditioning of society and their inability to not be influenced by it; to make their own choices and personal journey through healing free of it. Pain is pain, and we all have it in reunion no matter what choices we make-the difference for me is this: will my pain come from regret at not honoring my feelings or from the healing process required of honoring those feelings as I work through the original loss and separation.


Notice that while GSA almost always involves pain, the biggest problems facing this relationship have to do with prejudice and bigotry from those who have never experienced GSA, and envy and condemnation from some who have. The relationship works for the people who are in it. We should never use the law or bullying or discrimination to punish adults for finding love with each other. This relationship is one between capable, intelligent adults who were able to find other people. But they wanted each other more than anyone else. They should not have to hide. They should be free to marry. This is why we need full marriage equality sooner rather than later.

See this previous entry of mine.
— — —

Another Ally For the Polygamous Freedom Marry

Barbara Falconer Newhall, influenced by a couple of our favorite TV shows and one our favorite books, became an ally for the polygamous freedom to marry.

Since researching that story on same-sex marriage, I have watched season after season of TV’s “Big Love” (one man, three wives, lotsa kids).

I’ve also watched a couple of episodes of “Sister Wives” (one man, four wives, more kids).

And I’ve read Love Times Three: Our True Story of a Polygamous Marriage (one man, three wives, 23 living children), by Joe, Alina, Vicki and Valerie Darger.

And I can’t help concluding that polygyny – as practiced in fiction and in fact by these three families – is neither barbaric nor weird.

There was at least one of the typical comments bringing up the usual "problems with polygamy" that aren't really problems with the polygamy, but rather the way some people who have polygamous marriages behave. It is like if someone notes a long, happy, monogamous marriage and someone else brings up and abusive one as "proof" that all monogamy is wrong.
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Monday, November 7, 2011

Polyamory and the Spiritual

I don’t spend much time here discussing views on religion or spirituality, aside from what some religious organizations say about sex and marriage. I recognize that people of diverse identifications may support (or oppose, for that matter) full marriage equality. This blog is for the promotion of full marriage equality and related rights, not for promoting a specific religion or spirituality. Atheists, agnostics, freethinkers, Wiccans, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Sikhs, Pastafarians… whatever…. If you support full marriage equality, then we can at least agree on that and work to make it happen sooner rather than later.

I bring this up because of “A Dialogue on Sex and Spirit” by Dr. Deborah Taj Anapol, Ph.D. and Taber Shadburne, MA. They talk a little about polyamory, and much about Tantra.

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Sunday, November 6, 2011

An Extensive Article on the Reality of Polyamory

Alex French has an extensive article about polyamory, starting with polyandry. The more articles like this one, the better. People need to know that there are various nonmonogamous relationship models, and that like any other relationship, there are realities to deal with.

Jaiya Ma, the center of the clan, is a 34-year-old with dark, wavy hair and caramel skin. Her life is wide open; she falls in love easily, suffers willingly. Next to her is Ian Ferguson, a thin 44-year-old with a shaved head and a goatee, feeding bits of eggs Benedict to their energetic 2-year-old son, Eamon. Ian and Jaiya have been lovers for four years. Sitting across from Jaiya is Jon Hanauer, an extremely fit 48-year-old wearing wire-rimmed glasses, who serves as Eamon's primary caretaker. He and Jaiya have been in a committed relationship for almost a decade.


Neither Jon nor Ian is legally married to Jaiya. Both are allowed to see other women. But the three of them live a lifestyle that—much of the time—isn't that different from a conventional marriage. They're one of an estimated 500,000 polyamorous families in the United States.

That would mean at least one and a half million people at the bare minimum.

Jaiya, who founded a successful sex-education company, is typical of the women in polyandrous triads: intelligent, self-possessed, professionally accomplished.

Certainly, we’re not talking about uneducated, oppressed women.

"We're going through right now what homosexuals went through 30 or 40 years ago," says Matt Bullen, a 42-year-old writer and married dad in Seattle who is part of a polyamorist cluster that encompasses five people and two legal marriages. "We need to start putting photos on the desk of ourselves and our partners together. When I'm out in public with my wife and my girlfriend, I need to say, 'These are my partners.'"

That will help bring about full marriage equality sooner rather than later.

Mary, a 26-year-old Ph.D. candidate in economics at Boston University (who asked that her real name not be used), says she's known since she was 14 that monogamy was anathema to her. "That's when I realized that maybe it didn't make sense for me to suppress these feelings just because of a societal norm," she says. Hardly an insatiable minx, Mary claims she's "not a sexual person at all" and still lives—in a polyandrous triad—with her first boyfriend.

Again, there’s a word or two that the FCC would have some problems with, so if you are actually someone who likes reading about polyamory but can’t handle reading the “f” word, be warned. Go read all of it.
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Saturday, November 5, 2011

Another Take on Polyamory as a Sexual Orientation

Micah Schneider, a “poly, kinky, pagan, heteroflexible, sex-positive, pro-feminist, almost-forty white male,” does brilliant work answering the question “Is Polyamory An Orientation Or A Lifestyle Choice?”

Think about it this way. If you consider yourself a submissive, are you suddenly not one anymore if you don’t current have a dominant in your life? You can ask the same question of every other sexual orientation you can think of, including heterosexuality and monogamy. Is a straight white girl suddenly not anymore if she’s single?

Of course not.

Someone can be poly by orientation, meaning that they prefer to be involved in multiple loving relationships, but monogamous by circumstances or choice. In the previous century, I was legally married. My ex-wife and I were polyamorous, but we went long stretches of our marriage where it was just the two of us. That didn’t mean that we weren’t poly anymore, we just didn’t have a large dating pool to fish in at the time. I’ve heard of plenty of poly folks that choose to be monogamous with one partner, because the other person is not poly, and doesn’t want to share. There’s nothing wrong with them negotiating those limits. That’s their choice to make. Some of those people stopped identifying as poly, but just as many didn’t.

Just as there are monogamous bisexuals who can be happy with a man, or happy with a woman, there are people who can he happy being monogamous or happy being polyamorous. Other people, I think it is clear, need monogamy or need polyamory.

It works the other way, too. I know more than one poly couple where only one half is functionally poly. The other is mono by nature, and negotiated a poly relationship with their poly partner so that partner can express their orientation. Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this arrangement; it’s their business. And some of the mono partners identify as poly, but some don’t.

Again, think about it this way. If someone identifies as bisexual, and then begins a monogamous relationship with someone of the same sex, are they suddenly homosexual? Or straight, if it’s someone of the opposite sex?

Of course not.

I believe that poly and mono are orientations, the same way that homosexuality, heterosexuality and bisexuality are. I also think that pansexuality, asexuality, kink and a whole host of other alternative sexualities are also orientations. But that doesn’t mean everyone thinks about them the same way I do.

There’s some language at the end that the FCC would have some problems with, so if you are actually someone who likes reading about polyamory but can’t handle reading the “f” word, be warned. Go read all of it.
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Friday, November 4, 2011

Discovering Polyamory

I always like to read someone’s personal story of coming to realize and accept that they were polyamorous, as well as people who decided it wasn’t for them but are now allies of the polyamorous.

Here’s another one of the former.

It was shortly after I turned eighteen that I came out as bi – first to myself, then to A. and a select few trusted friends.

‘If you want to have a girlfriend,’ A told me, ‘that’s fine with me.’

I turned the idea over in my mind for a while…. and then I met her. Who was she? I’ll call her C, and she fell proverbially into my lap one night in the chat-room of a bi women’s support forum. She was polyamorous, and when it became apparent that there were strong feelings between us, both A and her primary partner T urged us to go for it. We met. We kissed. She asked me to be her girlfriend, and I accepted. I fell deeply, madly in love with her.

There are twists on the road, not all pleasant. But if you want, go read the rest.
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Thursday, November 3, 2011

A Great Relationship Broken Up

A couple dated for five years, and were engaged. She’s very pregnant, due to give birth next month. According to reports...

The couple, who met at university, had decided they wanted to introduce their single parent families to each other before they got married.

But at the meeting it emerged they were brother and sister who had been separated as small children.

The unnamed South African couple are still in shock after making the discovery last Saturday.

It’s a very surprising thing for someone. They have this attraction and bond they have never experienced before, and then there is an explanation they were not expecting.

The country's Sowetan newspaper reported that the siblings had been raised separately after their mother and father went through an acrimonious divorce.

It reported: 'Their parents separated when the woman was eight months old and the man was two years old.

'The man's father said he dumped his wife in 1983 because she was cheating on him. The girl was raised by her mother, while her brother was raised by his father.

That’s a prescription for Genetic Sexual Attraction.

The woman told the Sowetan she was devastated by the revelation.

She said: 'It was love at first sight. We were studying together at Tshwane University of Technology in Nelspruit.

'When I first saw him, we connected. We fell in love and since that day, we never looked back.

'All we wanted to do was just to have a family and many kids.

Yes, that sounds like GSA.

'So you can imagine how shocked we were when they broke the news. We are going to have a child together. We do not know what we will tell him when he grows up.'

It won’t matter, as long as he has loving parents. Likely, the ridiculous prejudice against consanguinamorous relationships will be mostly marginalized by then.

The couple said they had decided to split after hearing the news and were discussing how to handle the shock with their separated parents.

That’s a shame. I hope that is just for the sake of throwing off the authorities. They were apparently so great together. They should move away and be a family. Others have done it successfully.

Yet research by the British Medical Journal showed that half of those separated from relatives at a young age experience strong sexual feelings when they are reunited.

That sounds about right.

I hope they work everything out. They have loved each other and now they’ll have a child together. They shouldn’t let others, or irrational prejudices instilled in them for no good reason, to keep them apart.
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Wednesday, November 2, 2011

Teach Your Children Well

LaSara Firefox Allen wrote about teaching children about sex as part of sex-positive parenting.

Why does “family friendly” translate to “devoid of any sexual content”?

How are we supposed to have an open conversation with our kids about sex when we can’t have a rational conversation about it as adults?

Good questions.

But here’s the simple truth; we have bodies. We have sex. And according to science, sex is good, and good for us!

Our culture is saturated with sexualized images. It’s drenched in sexual terminology. Sexual energy is a foundational part of social interaction.

Not all of these things are always positive. Many sexualized images are not sex-positive, and much of the sexual terminology at play in the social lexicon of the schoolyard is down-right negative.

But in our blanket negation of sexual expression as part of a healthy life, or even a healthy spiritual reality, we in effect take ourselves out of the conversation.

Not a good thing.

But a question you may want to ask yourself is, “Where do I want my kid getting his/her information about sex from?”

The best tool we can offer our children is sexual literacy.

Sexual literacy begins with awareness and appropriate education. The information you hand down to your child will inevitably be flavored by your own values, morals and ethics. So the more clear you are on what those values, ethics, and morals are, the more consciously you will be able to help your child gain literacy, and develop their own ethical structure.

Parents are often uncomfortable with the sexuality of their children (and likewise, children often are when it comes to that of their parents). But it is child neglect to try to shield children from all knowledge of sex. I’m not talking about sitting a five-year-old down who had been busy coloring and explaining intercourse, but rather, as the writer of the piece does, answering questions asked with truthful, age-appropriate answers.

Please note that there is a difference between discussing sex and relationships with your children in a way that will make the informed, independent adults capable of making good decisions… and grooming your children to be your sexual or emotional prey, just as there is a difference between affection and molestation. As my readers know, I do not think it is problematic if an independent adult develops something with a parent.

Also, see my recent answer to “Is There Any Sexuality You Don’t Support?”
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Tuesday, November 1, 2011

Two Prosecuted For Consensual Sex in Namibia

In Namibia, adults are getting prison sentences for having sex with each other.

Reverend Veikko Nambala Shiimi, whose baby daughter, mothered by his daughter, turns one year today, has been sentenced to four years in jail for incest.

Nowhere in the article does it indicate that there is any problem with the child, by the way, and I would think they would include that if there was.

The Okahao Magistrate's Court recently sentenced Shiimi (70), a retired pastor, to a four-year imprisonment term after it emerged he had been having a sexual relationship with his 36 year-old daughter.

Shiimi, a well-known retired pastor and a member of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Namibia (ELCIN)'s church council based at Onaanda congregation in the Omusati Region, and his daughter Katrina Shiimi, were recently found guilty of incest in Okahao Magistrate's Court.

Shiimi was sentenced to four years in prison, of which two years were suspended, while Katrina was sentenced to two years suspended jail term, on condition that she is not convicted of a similar act for the next five years.

While I find it ridiculous that they were prosecuted at all, I wonder why she was given a lighter sentence? Isn’t it possible that he'd old enough now that the “balance of power” has shifted to her being more powerful?

The two were involved in a father-and-daughter sexual relationship since 2007 until March 2010, when Shiimi's wife, who is also Katrina's mother, caught them in the act.

The woman allegedly went to report the matter to the police, resulting in the arrest of her husband and daughter.

She probably had her suspicions already. Everyone who says the laws against consensual incest don’t need to change because “who is going to know?” should note things like this. People find out, even when the participants are not cheating.

He may have acted against what his church teaches or he himself taught in church (perhaps that is a reason why he retired), and he may have been cheating, but this should not have been a criminal matter. I don’t advocate cheating, but I have no idea what his legal marriage was like and if that was still intact when he and his 30-something daughter started up. You’d never see in an article like this if he’d been sexually rejected by his wife for the last 30 years or if his wife has had an affair, although I’m certainly not making those allegations against her. She could very well be a completely innocent victim who gave, and expected, a monogamous commitment.

To me, the important thing about all of this is that law enforcement is doing more harm than good. If the wife wanted out, that is where the law should be involved. But otherwise, it should have been a private matter.
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