California Voters: Yes on 3

Vote YES on Proposition 3!

If you’re a registered California voter, you might have received your Presidential Election ballot in the mail already.

If you’re not registered or not registered in your current location yet, you likely can still register for this election. Do so ASAP.

You should have multiple ways to vote in-person even if you don’t get a ballot in the mail or don’t want to use a mailed/mail-in ballot. You can also hand-deliver mail-in ballots.

Vote YES on Proposition 3 to advance the right to marry.

Here it is:

*****

PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO ARTICLE I

First—That Section 7.5 of Article I thereof is repealed.

SEC. 7.5. Only marriage between a man and a

woman is valid or recognized in California.

Second—That Section 7.5 is added to Article I thereof,

to read:

SEC. 7.5. (a) The right to marry is a fundamental

right.

(b) This section is in furtherance of both of the

following:

(1) The inalienable rights to enjoy life and liberty and to

pursue and obtain safety, happiness, and privacy

guaranteed by Section 1.

(2) The rights to due process and equal protection

guaranteed by Section 7.

*****

Here’s the link to the official voter information with the official language of the Proposition (it’s a PDF) if you want to see for yourself:

https://vig.cdn.sos.ca.gov/2024/general/pdf/prop3-text-proposed-laws.pdf

If you want to see the current “in the book” law as of this posting, here it is:

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=CONS&division=&title=&part=&chapter=&article=I

While Proposition 3 isn’t written like the Marriage Equality Amendment this blog endorses, Proposition 3 can enable the same result with some court cases and some follow-up legislation. It removes “dead” language from the California state constitution that was determined to be a violation of the US Constitution and it adds language to the state constitution emphasizing that marriage is a right. It is wonderful that it is written in a way that doesn’t restrict that right; rights are for all.

Let’s advance EVERYONE’S freedom to marry.

Yes on 3 in California!

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #16

“Some men will be left out as polygyny increases.” This is based on the assumption that in a culture with gender equality, polygyny would still be more plentiful than polyandry. Anti-equality people, based on this assumption, insist that this will result in unmarried men devolving into criminals.

The mistake here is assuming that the second, third, etc. wives in a polygynous marriage would have wanted one of those unmarried men rather than legally sharing the man they did marry, and that the unmarried men would in turn want to marry them. Some of those men may want to marry men, or not marry at all. Why not allow people to marry the person or people of their choice? Why try to force people to settle? Also, the system is not closed. There are billions of people in the world and more and more people are reaching the age and status of eligibility every second.

There was a study attempting to link polygny to criminal behavior in unmarried/unpartnered men based in part on nineteenth century frontier America. Things have changed a little since then. And guess what? Married men commit crime, too. Most of the men in prison have been married, were married or had at least one girlfriend at the time they were convicted.

Maybe men in the hypothetical polygynous community who don’t get married are violent people. Is it better that they have a wife to beat instead of committing crimes on the street? I don’t want to be the one who tells a woman she can’t marry the man/men or woman/women she wants; rather, she has to marry a less desirable man so that he can take his aggression out on her.

The warnings that polyamorous or polygamous freedom to marry will result in an increase of violent gangs of unmarried men committing crimes falls flat when one considers the overwhelming data revealing both that 1) Men in the US are getting married for the first time later than ever, and 2) Crime rates in the US have decreased.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #15 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Consanguineous) Love #17

Ethical Nonmonogamy is Not Cheating

Cheating is breaking an existing agreement or vow and keeping/intending to keep that breech of the agreement a secret from the person or people with whom it was made rather than informing the other(s) that the agreement is over (which is "leaving").

Ethical nonmonogamy is not cheating. (ENM may also be known as “consensual nonmonogamy” or “disclosed nonmonogamy.”)

For example, Mark and Jenny are swingers. Their agreement is that they will only be with others when they are both present. Anything more than a hug or kiss on the cheek with someone else, or revealing genitals to someone else in a social context, when they are not together, is a no. They attend parties together and have sex with others there; that's not cheating. But while Jenny is out of town on business, Mark picks up a woman at a bar and she gives him oral sex. Under the agreement he has with Jenny, this is cheating. Other swingers have different rules.

Some people have open relationships/marriages and a "don't ask, don't tell" policy, meaning the partners can be with others and won't ask or tell each other about who or what or when, often with certain conditions such as using protection and having STI tests. If you're not communicating with a potential partner's other partner(s), you can't be sure that being with you wouldn't involve your potential new partner cheating. Ultimately, though, at some point you just have to trust what someone tells you because establishing an absolute negative is extremely difficult. How can you be sure they don't have an agreement with some other person out there that would be breached with whatever you're doing? You can't. You can only be sure that you're not cheating on someone.*

Ethical nonmonogamy can take many forms, from lifelong spousal triads and quads (polyamory) to couples swapping to swinging to open marriages to couples engaging in the occasional casual threesome to someone living alone but having casual hookups. Informed consent is the core of all of this. While ENM is not cheating, people who profess or attempt to maintain ENM might cheat, just like monogamists might cheat. If there is a closed triad and someone in the triad has a secret lover on the side contrary to the agreement with the two others in the triad, that's cheating. "Fluid bonding" is a term used in polyamorous circles. Someone might only have unprotected sex with one person, and protected sex with others. Going without protection would be a form of cheating.

One should never assume that someone who is married or at least coupled isn't available, although one can certainly decide they don't want to be with someone who is married or coupled. That's each person's decision to make. Just because someone is married or has a partner doesn't automatically mean they aren't available for romance or sexual affection or some other social activities (meals together, going to the theatre).

While one may decide that kissing someone else is cheating and a deal breaker for their relationship, not all cheating has the same implications and risks.

An Adult Should Be Free To Marry All Consenting Adults

Recently, "Bernadette" submitted these comments to the blog...

Polygamy is the Apex of patriarchy.

and...

Take a look at the map where polygamy is legal. How are those countries doing? Specifically, what is the status of women in those countries? Polygamy is horrible for women and horrible for society.

This has been addressed here, but I will reiterate below.

The places she is probably referencing are places in which women and LGBTQ people are discriminated against, often with deadly bigotry. But these places don't have polygamy under a system of gender equality like we would. They have heterosexual monogamy or polygyny-only. Those are the only options for allowed sexual relationships. Sex within marriage, and it had better be heterosexual. There's no allowance for LGBTQ people or polyamorous people who don't want polygyny.

In places like the US, under a system of gender equality, an adult, regardless of gender or sexual orientation, will be free to marry all consenting adults. 

This will make things MORE equal and free, not less. 

Support FULL Marriage Equality!

Frequently Asked Question: Why Do Polyamorists Get Married?

The question is asked as though the person asking assumes that actual monogamy is a requirement for marriage. It isn’t in most places, even though current marriage laws will only allow monogamy in the legal sense.

For the purpose of this question and answer, I will include any form of honest nonmonogamy, or any label applied, such as open relationship, open marriage, swinging, swapping, polyamory, polyfidelity and polygamy.

Why do swingers get married?

Why do people in open relationships get married?

Why do polyamorous people get married?

The short answer is: For the same reason most other people get married. They want to get married, they think it is the best thing to do at that time in life, or they’re pressured.

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #15

“This oppresses women.” Gender equality and the right to be unmarried or to divorce are necessary components of full marriage equality. Anti-equality people often point to polygyny in certain cultures, past and present, where women do not have equal rights. However, this is not proof that polygyny, much less the larger scope of polygamy or polyamory, oppresses women. Women would be oppressed in those cultures with or without polygyny. If a woman wants to marry a man who has other wives rather than another man who is an unmarried man, and the other wives agree, why deny her that choice? If a woman wants to marry two men, or a man and a woman, or two women, she should have that right, too. Some women enjoy polygamy, including polygyny, and they should have the right to consent to the marriage of their choosing.

The law does not prevent a man from having relationships with, and children with, multiple women, but he can't legally marry all of them even if they all agree. The law does not prevent a woman from having relationships with, and children with, multiple men, but she can't legally marry all of them even if they all agree. Three people can have a loving, lasting triad, living together for years and years, but can't legally marry. What kind of sense is that?

Protections against gender discrimination, domestic violence, and child abuse should be the focus, not preventing consenting adults from marrying. Victims of abuse would be more likely to work with authorities to stop abusers if consensual relationships were not criminalized nor discriminated against.
 
There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #14

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #16 

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #14

“What about insurance/employment benefits?” There are many simple ways to deal with this. It is dealt with when an employee has more kids than the next, isn't it? It is not a good reason to deny the polygamous freedom to marry or polyamorous relationship rights in general.. This is something the law and/or employers and unions can figure out.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #13 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #15

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #13

“This will cause inheritance disputes.” This can’t be a reason for the continued denial of the polyamorous or polygamous freedom to marry. Again, if we're talking about children, not all polyamorous marriages will have children. But even with today’s restriction of monogamy-only for marriage, we see inheritance disputes all of the time. Widows and widowers who were married only once get in fights with their own children, who may fight with each other. Then, in some cases, there are children born outside of that marriage. There’s divorce and remarriage with or without stepchildren or making more children, there are people who were never married who have kids, there are childless people whose inheritances are disputed, "monogamous" and polyamorous people who had children with multiple people without having been married to any those partners, on and on it goes. If anything, legalizing polygamy would make it easier to sort out inheritance. There can be default rules in the law, and people can come up with their own documented, legal agreements.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, kink, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #12 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #14

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #12

“What about child custody and child support?” This is an especially flimsy objection to polyamorous (or polygamous) relationships. As we have noted before, adult relationships don't always involve raising children. Even so, nonmonogamous relationships between adults who are parents have always existed, and in most places, it isn't criminal to be nonmonogamous. So this issue is already being handled. Notice we could ask the same question about children from one night stands, donated sperm, surrogate mothers, affairs, brief flings, or supposedly monogamous relationships and marriages that end. What about children born to a woman whose husband wasn’t the man who impregnated her? All of these situations are entirely legal. A mediator, arbitrator, or court decides custody and child support disputes that aren’t resolved amicably. That would still be the case if polyamorous relationships had legal protections, including marriage.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #11 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #13

Marriage Doesn't Have to be Monogamous

More and more people are questioning whether the polygamous freedom to marry should continue to be denied anywhere. At the forum community.babycentre.co.uk, MonaVanderwaal asked...

Should marrying more than one person be allowed in the UK?

Yes!

At the moment it is a crime punishable for up to seven years in prison.

Do you think it is an outdated law?

It's a ridiculous and unjust law.

If three+ people could prove they are happy in the arrangement, would this change your mind?

Visibility is important, but this is a basic matter of freedom of association. People have a fundamental right to marry. Some people are polyamorous or otherwise want more than one spouse. If all are consenting adults, there's no good reason to deny them their rights. You don't need to be aware of the polyamorous people around you who are in happy, long-term relationships to understand that all adults should have their rights.

Let's look at a few of the responses.

Answering Arguments Against Polyamory

People who insist monogamy is the only acceptable relationship model, or that polyamorists should not have the same rights for their relationships as monogamists, almost always cite a few often-repeated reasons as to why. If you're polyamorous, you’ve probably heard most of these reasons, whether from coworkers, family, or complete strangers. Although I’m going to focus on polyamorous relationships, most of these are also applicable to open relationships, swinging, swapping, nonmonogamous sex, and ethical nonmonogamy in general whether the people involved identify as polyamorous or not.

Just about any objection people have to polyamory or other forms of ethical nonmonogamy fit into these common arguments, perhaps with different wording. Just so that you know, when I use the term “polygamy” I am referring to a subset of polyamory that involves marriage (whether by law, ceremony, or declaration of those involved), involving three or more spouses, whatever the structure of the relationship or the genders involved, as long as all involved are consenting adults.

1. “It is disgusting.” Also known as the “ick” or “eww” factor, this explains why the person using the argument would not want to have a polyamorous relationship, but their own personal disgust is not a justification for preventing other people from having a polyamorous relationship. Some people are disgusted by the idea of heterosexual sex, or their own parents having sex, but obviously this is not a justification to ban those things. Obviously, the consenting adults who want a polyamorous relationship aren’t disgusted by it. An effective response to this is “Don’t want a polyamorous relationship? Don’t have one.”

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #11

“It will be a legal/paperwork nightmare as our system is set up for couples.” That’s what the bigots said about same-gender marriage and the Americans With Disabilities Act and just about any civil rights laws. Of course it is easier for those who already have what they want to keep things as they are. But what about all of the people who are denied their rights?

Adopting the polygamous freedom to marry under full marriage equality will take much less adjustment than adopting the Americans With Disabilities Act, the Violence Against Women Act and many other laws necessary to for equal protection and civil rights. Contract and business law already provides adaptable examples of how law can accommodate configurations involving three or more people, including when someone joins an existing relationship or leaves a relationship.


There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #10 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #12

How Nonmonogamous People Can Avoid Trouble

Believe it or not, there are still criminal laws in many places criminalizing consensual sex and relationships between adults.

It doesn't matter to them how loving, happy, and lasting the relationships are. It apparently doesn't matter to the people interfering that every dollar or minute they spend trying to stop consenting adults from loving each other is a dollar or minute that could instead go into protecting people, especially children, against predators.

In addition to the persecution and prosecution of consanguinamorous people, polyamorists, polygamists, and other ethical nonmonogamists can face discrimination and even prosecution.

Some awesome people put together a very helpful lists of state laws for polyamorous people in the US or considering moving to the US. First, note the disclaimer that there is an ever-present at the bottom of this blog. I'll mostly repeat it here:

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #10

“Polyamory/polygamy spreads sexually transmitted infections.” Unprotected sex with someone who is infected is how such infections may be transmitted. Twenty people could have group sex and a group marriage for fifty years and if none of them brings an infection into the marriage and they only have sex with each other, none of them will get a sexually transmitted infection.

We do not deny people their freedom to marry based on which diseases they have. In most places, people can legally have sex with multiple partners anyway. Polyfidelity can be encouraged if polygamy is legalized and polyamory is no longer stigmatized, which would actually reduce disease transmission. Polyamorous people tend to be more careful about prevention, safer sex, and actually talking about the issues involved.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #9 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #11

Lies and Damned Lies About Polygamy

[Note: I am bumping up this previous entry because it is as relevant as ever. Polygamy is not something to escape from, fear, or prosecute. Abusive people are. Polygamy doesn't harm women, children, or teen boys, abusers do. The same goes for monogamy.]

Good ol’ tool of anti-equality forces, Professor Joe Henrich of the University of B.C., is back in the news. This article comes with a picture of Bountiful, B.C. (which is NOT the picture shown here) along with this text…

New research says that polygamy, which is practiced in Bountiful, B.C., leads to increased crime.

Right. Everyone avoids driving near Bountiful because of the high crime rate.

Prof. Joe Henrich found that when rich men take more than one wife, it leaves a deficit of women leading to increased fighting and competition for the remaining women.

Got that? You non-wealthy or unmarried guys are just a bunch of criminals.

Henrich is taking about women as though they have no minds of their own and are nothing but property, akin to cars.

Rich men can “take” more than one woman, marriage or not. Shall we ban all nonmonogamy? Or, since it might lower the crime rate according to this line of thinking, shall we require a woman to find an unmarried man and keep him busy so he won’t go around being a violent criminal?

"You have low-status men who are desperate for resources," said Henrich, a professor in the departments of psychology and economics. "More polygamy leads to a greater proportion of unmarried men, which leads to increased crime."

How does Henrich explain “low status” men who marry a woman and support her decision to not earn income as she tends to the children or earn less income than she and their children will spend? Wouldn’t it make sense, in Henrich’s view, for such men to never marry and have children, so as to be less “desperate for resources?”

Henrich and his co-authors studied societies where polygamy is prevalent, trying to discover the consequences.

Did they also conclude that polygamy causes high amounts of melanin?

"The scarcity of marriageable women in polygamous cultures increases competition among men for the remaining unmarried women," said Henrich. "The greater competition increases the likelihood men in polygamous communities will resort to criminal behaviour to gain resources and women."

I wonder why the article doesn’t cite examples?

I also wonder how much funding for this, or how much of Henrich’s pay, comes from the very government that has banned the polygamous freedom to marry and is actively attacking polygynous families?

We’ve already debunked all of this here, here, here, here, here, and here. We will need many more dung beetles to clear this pile up.

An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any and all consenting adults. These excuses to deny full marriage equality are flimsy masks that fail to hide festering bigotry.

Polygamy and Public Assistance

I'm including a submission from a polygynist friend of FME. The following reflects his thoughts. I will make a brief comment at the end.

*****

Q: I would like more explanation of what the polygamist mindset is like, because to mono people it is so hard to understand. For example. As a mono person all I can imagine is that there is one guy who is fathering 20 or more children and the state ends up providing everything for the family because they can't manage on their own. I don't think that it is right for the state or taxpayers to have to take care of all the children that are born into these families. These so called families are just lazy and want a free ride from the rest of us.

Guilt By False Association

This post carries a ***TRIGGER WARNING*** because we will be discussing abuse and quoting/paraphrasing hateful, bigoted, discriminatory, sexist, racist, homophobic statements to expose the tactic of "guilt" by false association long used by anti-equality holdouts.

Women Can Have Multiple Spouses, Too

Or, There’s More to Polygamy Than Polygyny

Women can enjoy multiple spouses, multiple husbands, multiple wives, multiple partners, multiple girlfriends, multiple boyfriends, and dating multiple people. A woman can love more than one person, have multiple ongoing romantic relationships, and have multiple ongoing sexual relationships.

Regular readers of this blog may find such statements to be obvious, but way too often, when I read or hear news or commentary about “polygamy,” what is meant is “polygyny” (one husband, multiple wives). Polyandry, meaning one wife with multiple husbands, has existed in tradition and still exists in modern relationships, and it is polygamy, too, as are spousal relationships between multiple women and multiple men, or three or more men, or three or more women.

This blog supports relationship rights for adults regardless of gender. A woman should be just as free as a man to marry more than one person, regardless of their genders or how closely related, and just as free as a man to not marry at all. or to leave a marriage.

Polyamory and Polygamy

How Marriage Equality Supports Family Values and Morality

There are people who constantly make a point of telling us their beliefs that marriage is important for our countries, that being married is good for adults and for children, that commitment is good, that unmarried sex is bad, unmarried cohabitation is bad, that being a single mother is bad, and that marriage is needed to “channel male sexuality.” They cite with worry the fact that there are fewer married households now and more children being raised outside of a home headed by married parents. These are what they say “family values” and “morality” are about. Everyone should get married and only have sex and raise children in marriage and should go to church every week and enjoy “freedom of religion.”


Let’s consider some facts, at least how the stand in the US (your country may vary.)…

Ethical Nonmonogamy Has Always Existed and Always Will

Ethical nonmonogamy has always existed and always will.

An adult should be free to have relationships, marriages, and sex with any and all consenting adults, without criminalization, bullying, or discrimination. There should be no laws against ethical nonmonogamy. For example, Utah has had a law criminalizing polyfidelity to try to eliminate plural marriage. It hasn't worked.

People should be free to live out the sexuality and relationships in which they best function, whatever form they take.

People should be free to have a polygamous marriage.

People should be free to have polyamorous relationships.

People should be free to have open marriages and other open relationships.

People should be free to participate in swinging.

People should be free to have threesomes and moresomes.

People should be free to engage in "swapping."

People should be free to have sex outside of marriage.

People should be free to live together in or outside of marriages, and free to stay with each other for any length of time.

There shouldn't be any laws against these things. Don't like these things? Don't do them!

Some people want monogamy, or no relationship or nor sex, and that's fine. But others should be allowed their own lives. There is no good reason to try to stop consenting adults from sharing the relationships and affections to which they've mutually agreed.

Ethical nonmonogamy might also be referred to as consensual nonmonogamy or disclosed nonmonogamy.