One definition of "taboo" is "a social or religious custom prohibiting or forbidding discussion of a particular practice."
That means it is possible for many people to be doing something and still have it "taboo" in the sense that nobody talks about it, at least not openly or publicly. The problem with not talking about things is that such silence can lead to serious negative consequences.
Thanks to technology, people can search out information about something without having to ask someone they live with or next to, or a teacher.
Want to know the most popular entry for this blog?
It's not even close.
The most popular entry on this blog, by far, is the entry addressing a frequently asked question of "How Common is Consensual Incest (Consanguinamory)? People from all over the world, but especially North America, Europe, India, and Australia, use search engines to answer the question, and those searches bring them here. The geography is no doubt a reflection of the blog being written in English. (Perhaps I should post more translated entries?)
Before going further, let’s make it clear this entry is talking about sex or sex-play or exploration that is consensual (we’ll call it Category S), not anything involving assault, molestation, or coercion (Category X). We shouldn’t have to reiterate that “sex” means consensual, but unfortunately we still do. (It’s not sex if it isn’t consensual, it is assault.)
The volume of searches and visits can't be accounted for solely by curiosity and journalistic or academic research. Some of that volume is from people who are, were, or want to be involved, or think or are certain someone they know is, perhaps even their partner. We know this because of the comments they leave and the messages they send, and all of the other entries they visit after coming to the blog through their initial question.
Based just on searches that invoke the question and other searches that find this blog*, there are a lot of people who have been involved, are involved, or want to be involved sexually or romantically, or want to be married to, someone law or custom forbids as too close of a relative. Yes, some people are completely disgusted by the thought, but clearly there are many who aren't. And some people are unable to hear or read anything about Category S without thinking of Category X, perhaps because they have been assaulted, which is terrible, but we should not avoid talking about sex because of assault. Even if person A is disgusted by the thought persons B and C having sex, or doesn't understand why these people are involved, persons B and C should be free to be together how they mutually agree.
Some people involved are extremely cautious about reaching out, fearing that they will be discovered by law enforcement, family, a current partner, or an ex with whom they have a child custody dispute, or an employer or client or customers or neighbors who harbor prejudice against people in such relationships. After all, there have been a lot of recent bus sightings. Some of the people who do reach out are highly accomplished, successful, educated, and intelligent people. It's cruel and pointless to compel them to hide (at least some aspects of) a loving relationship with another consenting adult. There is no good reason they should be denied their rights.
There are people who don’t recognize (or admit to themselves) that they have been involved. When some people hear or read the word “incest” they think of Category X. If that didn’t happen to them, they might say they’ve never been involved in incest, not thinking of, say, the time they and a sibling masturbated in front of each other as incest, or even if they've engaged in oral sex with an aunt or uncle close in age to them, or heard/saw their parent(s) having sex were somewhat aroused by it. While first cousins can legally marry in many places, there are still some places that criminalize sex between first cousins, and so involvement with a cousin is considered "incest" as is, in some places and circumstances, involvement with a step relation.
What else could fall under Category S? The people who are hurt most by prejudice against consanguinamory are people who are living as spouses already and are married in every sense of the word except by law, who are not only denied their right to legally marry, but in many places, can lose everything and be imprisoned (or even executed) if outed. However, it doesn’t have to be a lifelong spousal relationship to fall under Category S. It could be exploration during adolescence, a fling during adulthood, a sibling-with-benefits arrangement, asexual but romantic dates, or relieving the frustration of an family member who is injured or disabled and unable (even if temporarily) to do it themselves.
The conditions that bring about reunion Genetic Sexual Attraction have increased, and so there are more situations involving GSA, and many of those situations lead to some sexual involvement.
Some of the most popular themes of erotica and porn are considered incestuous, and while someone’s tastes in such material may be entirely based on a fantasy they’d never pursue in real life (for example, people who don’t have siblings or aren’t attracted to their sibling who enjoy erotica involving siblings), there is clearly not only much involvement, but much interest as well. Although, it should be noted that fantasy media is often very different from how things are in reality, and that applies to porn with these themes, too.
As long as we’re talking consensual interaction, it shouldn’t matter if it is experimentation, recreation, or passionate, bonding lovemaking, or in the context of a lifelong romance or a one night hookup; it shouldn’t be illegal anywhere and it shouldn't have be kept a secret. It is happening, and it always has, and nobody needs to be harmed as a result.
Here's what I hope people take away from this entry:
1. If you've had these relationships, experiences, desires, or fantasies, you're not alone, and there isn't necessarily anything wrong with you. There is help. Also, you are welcome here. We support your rights.
2. Laws and stigmas against these relationships, experiences, desires, and fantasies need to be done away with and replaced with protection of rights, and people need to be able to talk about these matters. Even if you haven't been involved, you know someone who has, so please be an ally.
3. There can and should be be fair and compelling media portrayals of these subjects, both in nonfiction and fiction, in drama and comedy. The subject has always been in our stories, from Greek mythology to The Bible to Game of Thrones to the antics of various reality television performers.
4. Serious academic research into these subjects should be encouraged rather than discouraged.
5. Therapists, counselors, social workers, and medical professionals interacting with people who have these involvements should accept and reinforce that such desires, experiences, and relationships are not inherently problematic (some do, all should).
*Here are just some actual search terms that brought people to this blog recently. There are many variations of these that are somewhat redundant, too, and these search terms have all been used many times...
That means it is possible for many people to be doing something and still have it "taboo" in the sense that nobody talks about it, at least not openly or publicly. The problem with not talking about things is that such silence can lead to serious negative consequences.
Thanks to technology, people can search out information about something without having to ask someone they live with or next to, or a teacher.
Want to know the most popular entry for this blog?
It's not even close.
The most popular entry on this blog, by far, is the entry addressing a frequently asked question of "How Common is Consensual Incest (Consanguinamory)? People from all over the world, but especially North America, Europe, India, and Australia, use search engines to answer the question, and those searches bring them here. The geography is no doubt a reflection of the blog being written in English. (Perhaps I should post more translated entries?)
Before going further, let’s make it clear this entry is talking about sex or sex-play or exploration that is consensual (we’ll call it Category S), not anything involving assault, molestation, or coercion (Category X). We shouldn’t have to reiterate that “sex” means consensual, but unfortunately we still do. (It’s not sex if it isn’t consensual, it is assault.)
The volume of searches and visits can't be accounted for solely by curiosity and journalistic or academic research. Some of that volume is from people who are, were, or want to be involved, or think or are certain someone they know is, perhaps even their partner. We know this because of the comments they leave and the messages they send, and all of the other entries they visit after coming to the blog through their initial question.
Based just on searches that invoke the question and other searches that find this blog*, there are a lot of people who have been involved, are involved, or want to be involved sexually or romantically, or want to be married to, someone law or custom forbids as too close of a relative. Yes, some people are completely disgusted by the thought, but clearly there are many who aren't. And some people are unable to hear or read anything about Category S without thinking of Category X, perhaps because they have been assaulted, which is terrible, but we should not avoid talking about sex because of assault. Even if person A is disgusted by the thought persons B and C having sex, or doesn't understand why these people are involved, persons B and C should be free to be together how they mutually agree.
Some people involved are extremely cautious about reaching out, fearing that they will be discovered by law enforcement, family, a current partner, or an ex with whom they have a child custody dispute, or an employer or client or customers or neighbors who harbor prejudice against people in such relationships. After all, there have been a lot of recent bus sightings. Some of the people who do reach out are highly accomplished, successful, educated, and intelligent people. It's cruel and pointless to compel them to hide (at least some aspects of) a loving relationship with another consenting adult. There is no good reason they should be denied their rights.
There are people who don’t recognize (or admit to themselves) that they have been involved. When some people hear or read the word “incest” they think of Category X. If that didn’t happen to them, they might say they’ve never been involved in incest, not thinking of, say, the time they and a sibling masturbated in front of each other as incest, or even if they've engaged in oral sex with an aunt or uncle close in age to them, or heard/saw their parent(s) having sex were somewhat aroused by it. While first cousins can legally marry in many places, there are still some places that criminalize sex between first cousins, and so involvement with a cousin is considered "incest" as is, in some places and circumstances, involvement with a step relation.
What else could fall under Category S? The people who are hurt most by prejudice against consanguinamory are people who are living as spouses already and are married in every sense of the word except by law, who are not only denied their right to legally marry, but in many places, can lose everything and be imprisoned (or even executed) if outed. However, it doesn’t have to be a lifelong spousal relationship to fall under Category S. It could be exploration during adolescence, a fling during adulthood, a sibling-with-benefits arrangement, asexual but romantic dates, or relieving the frustration of an family member who is injured or disabled and unable (even if temporarily) to do it themselves.
The conditions that bring about reunion Genetic Sexual Attraction have increased, and so there are more situations involving GSA, and many of those situations lead to some sexual involvement.
Some of the most popular themes of erotica and porn are considered incestuous, and while someone’s tastes in such material may be entirely based on a fantasy they’d never pursue in real life (for example, people who don’t have siblings or aren’t attracted to their sibling who enjoy erotica involving siblings), there is clearly not only much involvement, but much interest as well. Although, it should be noted that fantasy media is often very different from how things are in reality, and that applies to porn with these themes, too.
As long as we’re talking consensual interaction, it shouldn’t matter if it is experimentation, recreation, or passionate, bonding lovemaking, or in the context of a lifelong romance or a one night hookup; it shouldn’t be illegal anywhere and it shouldn't have be kept a secret. It is happening, and it always has, and nobody needs to be harmed as a result.
Here's what I hope people take away from this entry:
1. If you've had these relationships, experiences, desires, or fantasies, you're not alone, and there isn't necessarily anything wrong with you. There is help. Also, you are welcome here. We support your rights.
2. Laws and stigmas against these relationships, experiences, desires, and fantasies need to be done away with and replaced with protection of rights, and people need to be able to talk about these matters. Even if you haven't been involved, you know someone who has, so please be an ally.
3. There can and should be be fair and compelling media portrayals of these subjects, both in nonfiction and fiction, in drama and comedy. The subject has always been in our stories, from Greek mythology to The Bible to Game of Thrones to the antics of various reality television performers.
4. Serious academic research into these subjects should be encouraged rather than discouraged.
5. Therapists, counselors, social workers, and medical professionals interacting with people who have these involvements should accept and reinforce that such desires, experiences, and relationships are not inherently problematic (some do, all should).
*Here are just some actual search terms that brought people to this blog recently. There are many variations of these that are somewhat redundant, too, and these search terms have all been used many times...
sibling sex
incestuous marriage
is incest normal
can i marry my sister
how common is sibling intercourse
mother son incest
sibling incest
sibling marriage
can brother and sister marry
can siblings marry
is it legal to marry your sibling
is it illegal to marry your sibling
can you marry your sister
can i marry my brother
mother daughter sex
sex between siblings
can a brother and sister marry
where is incest legal
can siblings get married
aunt and nephew relationships
can you marry your sibling
can you marry your brother
marriage between brother and sister
can brother and sisters get married
mother son marriage
sibling marriage laws
is it illegal to marry your sister
can brother and sister get married
is it legal to marry your sister
can two brothers get married
is it legal to marry your brother
marrying siblings
can half siblings marry
states where you can marry your sister
can brother marry sister
sibling sex relationships
is it illegal to marry your brother
i want to marry my sister
marriage between siblings
incest mother son
is it legal for siblings to marry
brother and sister marriage laws
marrying your sister
is it normal for siblings to experiment
is incest a crime
positive incest experiences
consensual mother son incest
is it illegal to date your sibling
half siblings marriage
why is sibling marriage illegal
mom son marriage
sibling couples
sexual relations between siblings
is it common for siblings to experiment sexually
mother son couple
why is it illegal to marry a sibling
mom son couple
where can you marry your sister
what percentage of siblings have sex
experiences with adult sibling sex
![Non-Monogamy Diagram [I:FV]](http://www.obsidianfields.com/lj/nonmonogamy2.5.1.gif){kind=link}
I think that's a very good list. Especially the first item on it reminds how valuable and needed this blog is. This is a very overlooked subject, even on the Internet. Many people give up on looking for answers after finding nothing of substance or value: at best, a bunch of pornography; at worst, a bunch of academic papers demonizing and using the term "incest" interchangeably with "intrafamilial sexual abuse." Thanks for doing so much, Keith.
ReplyDeleteRE:"The geography is no doubt a reflection of the blog being written in English. (Perhaps I should post translated entries?)"
This is going to be a busy month for me, but hey, if you have any particular entries in mind, I can translate them to Hebrew and Russian sometime.
I would very much appreciate translations, especially for the FAQs.
Delete"And some people are unable to hear or read anything about Category S without thinking of Category X, perhaps because they have been assaulted, which is terrible, but we should not avoid talking about sex because of assault."
ReplyDeleteKeith, I love how you always hit everything right on the money! This, too, is included. :)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/11/05/these-gay-men-became-father-and-son-now-they-want-to-get-married-but-cant/
I think this information is quite relevant to this blog, too. Are you in the process of writing up a blog post about it or have you mentioned it in the Facebook group, at all, yet?
Thanks for your kind words. And yes, I covered that story here: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/2015/11/stupid-laws-continue-to-hinder-some.html
DeleteI'm not surprised by this at all. It just confirms for me that consensual incest should not be illegal.
ReplyDeleteWhether or not consensual,loving incest isn't made legal,therapists and analysts shouldn't stigmatize those who are involved in it.Those involved couples shouldn't approach these prefessionals ,in the first place ,out of guilt or doubt.Social workers will only collect "research data" and write articles which will compound this guilt.Analysts will add jargon ridden language to further complicate this harmless issue only to appear virtuous and patronizing.
ReplyDeleteI am not one to advise you ,Keith,but in addition to this excellent blog,you must find other innovative ways to help people approach you for encouragement and assurance.I just don't know how you can do this.Just think-how many people know about this fantastic work you have been involved with?
I am not involved in incest and stumbled upon your blog by quite an accident after reading a case in the British tabloid DailyMail and started -out of curiosity-searching for consensual incest.How many are so curious?
How will you gather authentic data if people don't approach you? You have been meticulously collecting a few Case Studies but it seems to have stopped at that.It's a very difficult task indeed.
All I can say is all the best for this endeavour.