A Few Words About More Than Two

Have you read More Than Two yet? I have to admit I have not. One of the authors is Franklin Veaux, whose websites I have visited and whose Facebook postings and other online comments I have regularly enjoyed. Here is Jennifer Levin's take on the book, found at santafenewmexican.com...

Twenty years ago Veaux started a website, www.morethantwo.com, that has since become the go-to place for people navigating these complicated romantic arrangements, as the “poly” lifestyle has grown in popularity.

More importantly, it has grown in visibility.

The goal of More Than Two is to offer advice and dispel common myths, such as the idea that all poly people are kinky swingers. Poly is a relationship style, not a sexual practice, and many configurations exist within it. Being poly doesn’t necessarily involve group sex or anything particularly adventurous in the bedroom, although for some people it does.

As I've said before, the only thing all polyamorous people have in common is that they are people and they are polyamorous. There are polyamorous people who have far fewer partners over the course of their life than many self-proclaimed monogamists. There are polyamorous people of various religious traditions and no religious tradition, various political affiliations and no political affiliations, various income levels, so on and so forth.

Have you read the book? What do you think? I think it is great that there are books such as this one, The Ethical Slut, and Opening Up. I look forward to more books about polyamory in general as well as personal accounts of how people have lived a polyamorous life.

Peter Singer Looks at German Report on Consanguinamory

There continues to be commentary on recent news from the German Ethics Council we last discussed in this entry. Ivy League professor Peter Singer checked in on the topic again, and his thoughts were printed in several places and I was tipped off by a Friend of Lily and Friend of FME. You can find Singer's thoughts at project-syndicate.org...

Incest between adults is not a crime in all jurisdictions. In France, the offense was abolished when Napoleon introduced his new penal code in 1810. Consensual adult incest is also not a crime in Belgium, the Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Russia, China, Japan, South Korea, Turkey, Côte d’Ivoire, Brazil, Argentina, and several other Latin American countries.

This map should be of great help.

The report does not attempt to provide a definitive assessment of the ethics of consensual sexual relationships between siblings. Instead, it asks whether there is an adequate basis for the criminal law to prohibit such relationships. It points out that in no other situation are voluntary sexual relationships between people capable of self-determination prohibited.

Singer notes that the report goes on to talk about Discredited Arguments #18, 19, and 20.

The taboo against incest runs deep, as the social psychologist Jonathan Haidt demonstrated when he told experimental subjects about Julie and Mark, adult siblings who take a holiday together and decide to have sex, just to see what it would be like. In the story, Julie is already on the Pill, but Mark uses a condom, just to be safe. They both enjoy the experience, but decide not to do it again. It remains a secret that brings them even closer.

Haidt then asked his subjects whether it was okay for Julie and Mark to have sex. Most said that it was not, but when Haidt asked them why, they offered reasons that were already excluded by the story – for example, the dangers of inbreeding, or the risk that their relationship would suffer.

That's because they don't want to admit their reason is simply that they wouldn't personally want to do it. However, their personal disgust should not prevent other people from enjoying sex or loving as they mutually agree.

In the case of the incest taboo, our response has an obvious evolutionary explanation. But should we allow our judgment of what is a crime to be determined by feelings of repugnance that may have strengthened the evolutionary fitness of ancestors who lacked effective contraception?

Even discussing that question has proved controversial. In Poland, a comment presenting the views of the German Ethics Council was posted online by Jan Hartman, a philosophy professor at the Jagiellonian University in Krakow. The university authorities described Hartman’s statement as “undermining the dignity of the profession of a university teacher” and referred the matter to a disciplinary commission.

That's terrible.

I would argue that it is immoral to use government resources to try to prevent consenting adults from loving each other how they wish, or to discriminate against them by denying them their fundamental right to marry. Germany, and many other countries, need to drop the discrimination against consanguinamory and embrace full marriage equality.

From a Lawyer

I have made it clear in this blog that I'm not a lawyer and I'm not offering legal advice (see my disclaimer way down at the bottom of the blog.)

But... a lawyer sent along an email that just might be useful for some of the couples I've interviewed and whose rights this blog is about.

Here is what one David A. Robinson, J.D., member of the Connecticut Bar, wrote...

Are They or Aren't They?

Observations and confiding of consanguinamory pop up everywhere, especially where people can hide their identity. People will write that they've caught friends and relatives in a moment of passion with a close relative, or heard or seen something that indicated to them that someone they know has such a relationship. Others will write that they themselves are in such a relationship or used to be, or they want to be.

Here is something I found at isitnormal.com under the heading "Is is normal for family to ignore what's obviously incest?"

My cousin is the only child of a single mother (my mom's sister). He still lives with her, even though he's 25 and has a job. He's never had a steady girlfriend.

Almost every time someone meets them, they will ask me if he's her boy-toy. They enter ballroom dancing competitions as partners. We call them Simply Red because they're both ginger, but I've overheard some of my mom's friends calling them Simply Bred.

It's obvious they don't have a normal mother/son relationship, but nobody in my family seems willing to admit it. Every time we mention them everyone looks awkwardly at each other, but nobody actually says anything.

Is my family trying to turn a blind eye to it out of shame, or do they not believe it? I hardly ever see them, so what they do doesn't bother me, but I worry that it upsets my mom.

I personally think it's not my problem, but do you think I need to say something to my mom about it.

Is It Normal?

It does sound to me like the family figures there is something there, but they find it easier for them to leave it unspoken. If they disapprove, what's the alternative, really? Turn the consenting adults into the police? They could do that, if they live where consanguineous sex is still criminalized. But to what end? To ruin the lives of consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone? This may not be the life any of them would want, or what you, the reader, might want, but as long as it is the life they want, they should be allowed to have it. It would be great if everyone could be supportive, but if they won't be, it is better just to leave it.

As far as the son never having a "steady girlfriend," it is entirely possible he's had many relationships and just not told his extended family. He could be continuing to have such relationships. These days, not everyone brings all of their love interests or sex partners to meet their (extended) families.

 

It's also entirely possible their relationship isn't sexual at all. The people commenting tore into the original poster for assuming it is.

Whether or not this pair has a sexual relationship, there are adults who are in sexual relationships, sometimes spousal ones, with their genetic or step parent. Contrary to bigoted prejudices, many of them are successful, attractive, educated people.

Coming Out Day 2014

Even with recent court decisions in the US bringing more states online with the limited monogamous same-gender freedom to marry, and some recent laws enacted for the protection and rights of LGBT people, life can be tough for someone whose identity and orientation doesn’t fit in to a little heterosexual, monogamous, "traditional"-gender-role box or whose relationship doesn’t meet the local sex police’s approved standards. Sometimes, a person or the people in a relationship want to come out of the closet. Sometimes they need to come out. For some of these people, it is a little less difficult if they do so as part of a communal event, such as National Coming Out Day.

National Coming Out Day is Saturday, October 11. Here’s the official website, at least for the US. There is much helpful information there, regardless of where you live.

The more people that come out, the more the others around them will realize they do know and appreciate people who are LGBT, or polyamorous, or consanguinamorous, and that such people and relationships deserve equality. So coming out helps progress.

On the other hand, it is understandable that any given person, couple, triad, or quad decides to stay in the closet for now. There’s still so much hate, so much prejudice and persecution, and even unjust laws that hinder the life and love of people who are good citizens and just want to be themselves. I support the decision of anyone who believes they need to be reserved for now for the sake of their safety and family.

The decision to come out is yours. Do you want to come out, and to whom? Your friends? Your family? Your coworkers? Your classmates? Your neighbors? Your crush? The whole world?

Also, if someone comes out to you, the decision to be an ally is yours. If your classmate, coworker, neighbor, friend, parent, child, or sibling comes to you and says they are gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered, polyamorous, or in a consanguinamorous relationship, what will you do? Will you choose love and acceptance?

Even if you are heterosexual, monogamous, and nonconsanguinamorous, you may want to come out as an ally for full marriage equality. That alone can take courage, but it helps.

If you are planning to come out, or you do come out, please feel free to share your experience here by commenting.

New Zealand Judge Punishes Woman For Consenting

Oh, New Zealand. Like so many other places, you're making some progress but you still have so far to go. Here's a report at stuff.co.nz by David Clarkson regarding the latest injustice related to a possible Genetic Sexual Attraction case...

A brother and sister who met as young adults have been sentenced for incest as they co-parent their child in Christchurch.

The sister has been put on community detention that will keep her at home at night caring for her daughter – a healthy baby – and she must do a year of intensive supervision.

Her older brother’s sentencing was put off at the Christchurch District Court sentencing today because his probation report had not been done.

And who was the victim of their supposed crime of incest? Oh, that's right. There is no victim. The woman is being made a criminal for consenting to sex with another adult. So is the man, but he was prosecuted for something else, as we'll see.

Judge David Saunders told the brother that he must not go within 100m of flat where his sister is living unless he has prior approval of the Community Probation service.

Now at first, I thought this was due to the man being in love with a grown woman, and it may be, partially, but reading further...

The brother has admitted a wilful damage charge arising from a visit to the sister’s flat when there was an argument over money and a door was smashed.

If he's a violent person who poses a threat of domestic violence, then it is a good idea to keep him away. But he has custody of the child two days per week. So... is he being kept away because he's violent? Then he shouldn't be in custody of the child at all. If he's being kept away because he had sex with another consenting adult (and the smashed door thing was a temporary and singular lapse of his character), that's just absurd.

Judge Saunders should be ashamed of himself for treating a grown woman like a criminal for consenting to sex. He should ignore the "incest" charge when it comes to the man, too, and focus on any real crime he may have committed.

And did you notice that we see again that most children born to consanguineous parents are healthy?

Congrats to Elisabeth Lorentz and Eric Holder

Although the "reason" usually brought up to keep ridiculous laws against consanguinamory is Discredited Argument #18, some places lump in steprelations, who are not closely related, into laws against consensual "incest." A Friend of FME and Friend of Lily forwarded me this article from dailymail.co.uk by Damien Gayle, about steprelations who had to fight for their right to marry.

A woman yesterday tied the knot with her stepson - after fighting for months with French authorities for the right to marry.

Why did there need to be a fight in the first place? Let consenting adults marry each other.

Elisabeth Lorentz, 48, finally married Eric Holder, who is three years her junior, in the parish church in the small village of Dabo in Alsace-Lorraine, north-east France.

Good for them! They first met when he was 21 and she was 24.

Ms Lorentz married Mr Holder's father in 2003, but they separated three years later. Ms Lorentz told French media her former husband instigated the break up.

That shouldn't mean she and Eric had to stop associating.

With Mr Holder and Ms Lorentz's friendship soon developing into a love affair, it wasn't long before he proposed.

But quickly they ran into trouble with French law, which prohibits all unions between stepchildren and step-parents - even former ones.

Ridiculous.

They finally obtained the right to marry from a local court in north-east France in June. The prosecutor's office opposed the decision but did not appeal.

Good for that court!

The ex-husband of the bride, who is also the father of the groom, was to be among the 100 or so guests at the civil and religious ceremonies in Dabo.

'He has always supported us,' Ms Lorentz said.

Well good for him, too.

Let consenting adults marry.

Support your family members in their relationships, unless those relationships are with toxic people.

Wouldn't life be so much better???

Maybe you're someone who can't stand your (former) stepparent, stepsibling, or stepchild, and you couldn't even think about wanting to marry them. But not everybody has the same stepfamily, and not everybody feels the same. You should be free to have the relationships you want, and so should people like this couple.

Update on Zambia Prosecuting Consenting Adults For Marrying

In a case we last blogged about here, Zambia is still moving ahead with the prosecution of consenting adults for the "crime" of loving each other. Here's a report from lusakatimes.com...

A woman of Makululu Township in Kabwe District yesterday narrated to Kabwe Principal Resident Magistrate John Mbuzi how she rented out a room to a brother and sister who lived as husband and wife.

And them living as husband and wife has hurt people.... how? Oh, that's right. It hasn't.

This is in case where Maureen Musonda and Aaron Musonda of Makululu compound are facing two counts of incest, in count one incest by male contrary to Section 159(1) of the Penal Code Chapter 87 of the Laws of Zambia.

Particulars of the offence are that Aaron Musonda on dates unknown but between December, 2013 and February 27, 2014 in Kabwe knowing Maureen Musonda was his sister had unlawful carnal knowledge of her.In count two statement of offence incest by female contrary to section 159(1) of the penal code chapter 87 of the laws of Zambia.

Particulars of the offence are that Maureen on dates unknown but between December 1, 2013 and February 27, 2014 in Kabwe knowing Aaron to be her brother permitted him to have unlawful carnal knowledge of her.

These things should not be crimes. Let them love each other the way they both want. 

Here's a Negative Review of Happyland

We recently noted the premiere of the new show Happyland on MTV. If you've seen it, please comment with your thoughts. Here's a review by Pilot Viruet that was posted at flavorwire.com...

MTV’s latest attempt is Happyland, a comedy that desperately wants to tell a good story. Unfortunately, its writers just don’t know how to write one.

Hey, let's not pull any punches now.

Enter Ian Chandler (Shane Harper), who has an instant connection with Lucy (is there any other way for television teens to connect but instantly and in a single moment?). He is the perfect MTV love interest: blandly cute and blandly interesting with a bland secret (he is the owner’s son; everyone immediately finds out), and so on. They pose as prince and princess, he races her to her job interview, and the two end up kissing — which leads directly to the episode’s biggest reveal (and this isn’t a spoiler if you’ve read anything about the show): Ian and Lucy might be brother and sister.

And such is the possible Genetic Sexual Attraction angle.

But this hook isn’t just silly — it’s desperate.

Is there any way to incorporate the real element of GSA, which more and more people are experiencing, into a story without critics disliking it?

Documentary Production Needs Funding

If you support full marriage equality, there are many ways to help the cause. One of the ways is raising awareness. Even informative documentaries that take a neutral stance can help because the more that people see relationships that are discriminated against consist of real people who are hurt by prejudice, the better. I’ve previously passed along calls for interview or documentary subjects (see this recent posting, for example) but now I’m passing along an opportunity to provide funding for a new documentary.

Jan-Willem Breure, a Dutch director, is currently working on documentary about consanguinamory, and it will challenge the “incest taboo.” Please note this is not a documentary about abuse or molestation. This is about sex, or to be redundant, consensual sex.

A previous documentary by Breure won the Dutch Media Prize for Best Documentary of the Year, so he is not some inexperienced, unknown character. He’s looking for donors who can provide amounts small as well as large.

Here is the website:

www.jw-productions.com

There is a trailer available to give you an idea of the production. If you want to see it, email Breure or you can contact me a fullmarriagequality at yahoo dot com

Documentaries and other media should not ignore this subject or treat it with a negative bias. Here’s a chance to help, if you’re so inclined.

And, as always, if you're in a "forbidden" relationship and want to be interviewed for this blog like dozens of others have been, contact me.

Is the Republic of Maldives Prosecuting Consenting Adults?

A woefully incomplete news report at sun.mv was headlined with "Two arrested on suspicion of incest."

Two people have been arrested in Noonu Manadhoo on suspicion of incest.

The police spokesperson said that the 45-year-old man and the 28-year-old woman were arrested yesterday.

Sources have told Sun Online that the man is the uncle of the 28-year-old woman...

We're left to assume they were arrested for having sex with each other. I have no idea if "uncle" means he's the brother of one of her biological parents, stepparent, or adoptive parent, or if he married one of her aunts. He could be an adopted brother to one of her parents, for all we know. Regardless, if there's no victim, it shouldn't be a crime. People should not be arrested for having sex with another consenting adult.

Have You Seen the Show Happyland Yet?

We previously mentioned a new MTV show, Happyland, here. Referencing that show, which just premiered, Sundi Rose-Holt at ew.com takes a look at other shows with "incest."

In a twist that would rival even the juiciest telenovelas, Happyland builds its first major plot arc around characters that are from opposite sides of the tracks, have crackling sexual chemistry, and just happen to possibly be siblings.

Rose-Holt takes great effort to repeatedly let us know that incest is "gross," protesting perhaps too much. I wonder what some people might say about her love life?

I compiled a list of the top five most interesting, cringe-inducing relative romances that we [mostly] got over for the sake of the drama.

Oh really now? First up is one you just knew would be in the list: Jaime and Cersei from Game of Thrones. In case you're not clued in, that's a brother and a sister, who is cheating or her husband.


(If you click on the image, you'll go to a YouTube video.)

Next up is Chris and Cathy from the 2014 Flowers in the Attic, then Norma and Norman from Bates Motel, then Jenna and Toby from Pretty Little Liars, then, finally, Maeby and George Michael from Arrested Development. I think this last relationship is the only one Sundi explains, noting that they're cousins.

So other than with Arrested Development, Rose-Holt does not bother to explain the relationships, having instead filled the space with disapproving phrasing. I think Chris and Catchy are blood siblings, Norma and Norman are mother and son. I have no idea how Jenna and Toby are related. Are they stepsiblings? I mean, if she's including cousins as "incest" then I could understand why she would include stepsiblings, if that's what they are. Or are they cousins, too? The short survey of "incest" doesn't say.

Our stories have always included incest (see: Greek mythology, the Bible) whether we're talking about assault or we're talking about consanguinamory, because these things have always been a part of life. We should stop attacking people for being consanguinamorous and put that energy into preventing assaults.

I so badly want to see a television series have an unflinching, on-the-nose sex-positive portrayal of consanguinamory, perhaps between siblings, that doesn't involve the actually-blood-related lovers cheating, being deranged, or more or less forced into the situation by abuse or confinement. There are real people in such relationships. How about a sensitive and sympathetic portrayal in fictional television?

Until then, I can re-read these books. 

If you watch Happyland, or have seen any of the other productions mentioned, leave a comment about what you think.