Living Consanguinamorously - What About Roles?

Q: In a consanguinamorous relationship, what happens to the biological roles?

This is sometimes asked as “Do they still see themselves as siblings (or parent/child, etc.)?” or various other questions.

A (Short): It depends. Every situation has some differences from others.

A (Long): One of the questions usually asked in the exclusive interviews featured on this blog is that very question. Consanguineous lovers are asked if they see each other primarily as lovers or as family or if those things are inseparable. Hopefully in any relationship, people see each other as people first and foremost.

Relationships come in many varieties.

Consanguinamorous Youth

This blog is about equal rights for consenting adults.

But what about legal minors? It is dangerous to ignore that many legal minors experiment, explore, and get affectionate. I'm talking about age peers. I'm also addressing young people who have feelings for a parent, aunt, uncle, or other significantly older relative. If an older person is coercing you, or messing with you while you (try to) sleep, that's NOT what this is about. Don't let anyone abuse you!

Much of this entry on how consanguinamorous people can protect themselves is relevant, as can this entry on living together.

This essay is a result of someone anonymous contacting this blog's sister Tumblr to describe a situation he had experienced in his life and to ask if there are any resources to help people who are currently in the position he'd been in so many years ago.

A subsequent message was from a teacher who had to report minors who've revealed their experiences with consanguineous sex, due to mandatory reporting laws that apply to people in certain jobs.

What do you do if you're in a consanguineous relationship or you think you have a consanguinamorous orientation, but you're under the age of consent or not a legal adult?

Please note: Most of this entry is going to be strictly about how things are and practical situations, not about the morality of any given situation or actions. While we welcome all adults and anyone struggling due to prejudice against their gender identity, sexual orientation, or relationships, this entry is NOT endorsing or advocating underage sex or anything else illegal.

Are These Fantasies Normal?

I'm continuing a series here of answers I posted to Quora that got attacked by censors.

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https://www.quora.com/Ive-been-fantasizing-about-my-sister-is-this-normal-Should-I-do-something-to-stop-this/answer/Keith-Pullman

I've been fantasizing about my sister, is this normal? Should I do something to stop this?

Keith Pullman

I have interviewed hundreds of people about their families. 4y

I don’t know how old you are, or how old your sister is, but if you’re a teenager or older, fantasies are common, and if your sister is older than you or no more than a few years younger, fantasizing about her isn’t abnormal.

Many people you know have fantasized about their own siblings.

Believe it or not, some of them have actually had sex with their sibling. It is common enough that you know someone who has, even if you’re not aware that they have.

If you’re like most people, you are going to have many fantasies throughout your life. And unless you have a very stunted imagination or are incredibly lucky, many of your fantasies won’t be fulfilled in real life. But at least some of them can be.

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NOTE: These specific answers in this series were "deleted" at Quora after being there for a while and being well-received. They were probably hidden from view because some bigot targeted me, as evidenced by the fact that many were deleted in rapid fire.

I have previously appealed such deletions successfully. However, whether or not my deleted answers are restored, I’ll be adding them to this blog. You’ll see for yourself there’s no reason to delete these answers.

An Additional Perspective on Mothers and Sons

 

If you're a regular visitor to Full Marriage Equality, you are familiar with the many interviews posted here with people who are in, or have been in, "forbidden" relationships. This time, we present an interview with someone who has extensive knowledge of, and experience counseling people regarding, familial affection, especially between mothers and sons. He brings his own, distinct perspective.

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FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourself.

David: I'm a 50 year old Asian American man, college and self educated. Heterosexual. I'm both employed and self-employed. I am a spiritualist but I have also explored many religions and I have great respect for people's faiths in what I do. I have multiple income streams. I currently reside in the Western United States. 

What Better Time Than The Stroke of the New Year?

Have you been waiting to make a move?

Is there someone you’ve wanted so badly to kiss? (And maybe do much more with?)

For some of you, there’s no better time to do it than the stroke of the New Year, when midnight hits and 2024 becomes 2025.

Of course, this assumes they’d welcome a kiss, and it requires you actually be the same place as them.

If neither of you are problem drinkers, some bubbly might help and be appropriate. Maybe some leftover mistletoe?

Keep things pleasant and fun as midnight approaches.

Then, when everyone’s excited, take your chance when you can.

Kissing at the turn of the year or the moments just after is common even between people who’ve never kissed before: people who are already in relationships, friends, family. This could be your chance!

If you want someone to discuss your plans with you, contact Keith via email at fullmarriageequality protonmail dot com or on the Wire messaging app at fullmarriageequality.

You can also reach out or comment below to share your New Years memories.

Helping Your Family Members With Parenting

Life isn't neat and tidy. 

Even though there has been much pressure to force people into a heteromonogamous, single-race (but not consanguineous!) marriages and parenting in "nuclear family" homes, the majority of families don't stay with that construct indefinitely. 

Some parents don't marry, some divorce, some are widowed, some remarry, sometimes three or four generations are in the home, sometimes sons or daughters don't leave home until well into adulthood, if at all, sometimes they leave and come back, sometimes aunts and uncles live in the home, sometimes it's a home of a polycule, sometimes it's a couple of gay men, sometimes a couple of lesbian women, and on and on and on. There are adoptive homes, foster homes, homes with renters, homes with friends who live there, a bunch of roommates, on and on the variations go.

The point of this is that there may be someone in your family who could use some help raising their children, for so many different reasons, and it may be helpful if you lived together.

Especially if there is no other parent involved, it could be helpful if you could be designated as another parent to the child or children. Things that might help can include:

1) Being listed as another parent on any official paperwork.
2) Officially adopting the child or children.
3) Being married to the other parent.

There are sociologists who insist that it is best for a child to have parents married to each other, living in the same home. If that is true, isn't that another reason we should have full marriage equality? If a woman finds raising her children with her sister, mother, father, or brother, or a man finds raising his children with those family members to be the best option, why should they be denied their right to marry, if that's what they want? A single mother, for example should be free to marry her sister or brother, and that other sibling should be able to adopt the children, if that's what is wanted. This should be the case whether the siblings have a sexual or romantic relationship or not.

Wouldn't that be what's best for the children, if the adults want that?

This is another example of why the denial of full marriage equality needs to end. We need full marriage equality now.

Statistically, a relationship between two siblings on good terms will have more stability than with potential stepparents from outside the family.

Are you helping to raise your nephews or nieces or grandchildren? Might it be helpful if you were allowed to marry their parent?

NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #7

“What’s next?” “Where do we draw the line?” What's wrong with letting consenting adults have the freedom to love each other as they want and agree? Who has a problem with that? Rather than coming up with convoluted schemes for which groups of people will get which rights, why not support the rights of all adults? It’s really quite simple:

The right to marry or to personal consortium shall not be abridged or denied by the United States or any state on account of sex, gender, sexual orientation, ancestry, consanguinity, or number of participants.

(Adapt that to your country, province, etc.)


There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #6 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #8

Living Consanguinamorously - Dating Outside the Family

"Is it cheating to keep or start being with my relative while dating people outside the family?"

Cheating, which is not to be confused with ethical nonmonogamy, is violating existing agreements with one or more lovers while letting them believe the agreement continues to be in effect and unaltered. So if you have an ongoing sexual relationship with a close relative or family member you will keep, or you are pursuing one, you should not indicate to potential new lovers outside the family that you'll be sexually exclusive with them.

While many people find consanguinamorous relationships to be the best, or are consang in orientation, others are polyamorous (especially as an orientation) and either don't find other consanguineous lovers or have a need for someone who happens to be outside of the family. They might even want a unrelated lover as a practical matter, whether due to discrimination against consanguinamory or not. Please do not make someone an unwitting beard, however; it's generally a bad idea to deceive someone entering into a committed relationship with you because you aren't or can't be out about your orientation, relationships, or sex life.

There is not necessarily a need to tell potential new lovers you're involved in or pursuing consanguinamory. In most cases, outing yourself would be a bad idea, especially since consanguinamory is still illegal in many places. However, in many more places, ethical nonmonogamy has mostly been decriminalized or wasn't criminalized in the first place, depending on where you are, so it is far less of a problem to be out as an ethical nonmonogamist.

Do It This Way

A Cautionary Tale of Polyamorous Consanguinamory

This wont be an easy or quick read. [Note: This was originally published several years ago. I’m bumping it up because it’s tied to this season. I’d very much like to publish an update on this family.]

This is an in-depth recounting from a woman who was in a polyamorous consanguinamorous triad of her own initiation. It has been several years since it ended.

It’s a cautionary tale, though, unlike most of the interviews you'll find here, because they didn’t ever *talk* about it. They never discussed anything about it. They just did it. That, along with feeling isolated because of societal negativity, made things stressful for this woman.

Communication is important in any relationship. It is especially important in polyamorous relationships, and especially polyamorous relationships that were already established before they became sexual. It’s vital when three or more people are involved. If you can’t communicate about what's going on, you shouldn’t really be attempting an ongoing relationship. Consanguineous sex is almost always explosive. The intensity is unlike anything else. There’s a reason we call it double love or a double bond. Some people liken it to an addictive drug, and this woman does, too.

Communication is important. Reaching out to others is important. Reading the whole account will take a while. As you read this, notice how things could have turned out differently if they had talked things through, and didn’t have to hide.

I present her experience in her own words below. I have organized what she told me, but these are her words. If you contact me about her, refer to her as Zoe.

PLEASE NOTE THAT SOME OF THE NARRATIVE BELOW RECOUNTS EXPLICITLY SEXUAL SITUATIONS.


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I’m a mid-to-late twenties female and I was in an extended sexual relationship with both parents. For a long time I've felt really isolated, and if there's someone out there that can read what happened to me and say, "Yeah, I feel that too," that's a good thing. It started when I was 18 and ended when I was 22.

New to This Blog or Looking to Find Out More?

We support the rights of an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, to share love, sex, kink, residence, and marriage (and any other union offered by law), and any of those things without the others, with any and all consenting adults, without fear of prosecution, bullying, or discrimination. These are basic human rights under a system of gender equality and it shouldn't matter who is disgusted by the relationships of other adults or who doesn't understand why the adults would want to be together. Inherent in these rights is the right to NOT be in a relationship, NOT to marry, and to divorce or leave a relationship.

If you're viewing the desktop/laptop version, you'll see that over there in the column on the right you can find ways to connect and to follow this blog, and at the top of the page are tabs with drop-downs of some important pages, entries, and links. If you're viewing a mobile version, many of the links are below.

You are welcomed and affirmed here regardless of your gender, sexuality, or relationship diversities, and whether you are looking for more information, are in the closet or out about your gender, sexual orientation, or relationship, or want to be an ally. Are you here because of polyamory or polygamy? Perhaps you're here because this blog covers Genetic Sexual Attraction or consanguinamory (consensual incest) or because you think or know your partner has been involved? Do you need help? Whether you're a family member or friend who is looking for more information, or a journalist, or are someone who is looking to help the cause, we hope you are helped by what is here.

There's an About This Blog page, and you can read about the triad who originally inspired this blog.

There's a Glossary so that you can become familiar with terms frequently used here.

We explain why we need solidarity in supporting full marriage equality and we debunk all the arguments that you'll ever hear made against equality, so if you're against equal rights, please carefully read through that page.

On the Case Studies page we feature interviews with people who have been denied their rights, so you can "meet" people who are, or have been, in consensual loving relationships who have are harmed by the lack of equality under the law.

This blog is a labor of love. There's no advertising and we don't accept monetary contributions. Want to help? Spread the word. If you are a lawyer, attorney, or someone who works with a legal group or law firm, we'd like to hear from you if you are supportive. Also, this blog DOES accept content submissions (Keith can be contacted at... fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com), but makes no offer, implicit nor explicit, of compensation nor guarantees that it will be used. If you want to tell your story, that would be very helpful to others!

Tell us what you think by commenting or by contacting us.

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If you don't want to connect, still feel free to send Keith a note at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com

Myths about Genetic Sexual Attraction
Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory
Bad Reasons to Deny Love
Ten Reasons Why Consensual Incest is Wrong (Sarcastic) 

Pansexual Pride Day

 

December 8th is Pansexual Pride Day, an annual celebration of the pansexual and panromantic community!

Pansexuals are people who have the capacity to form physical, romantic, and/or emotional attractions to people regardless of gender identity.

Pansexuals and panromantics should have their equal rights, and be free to share love, sex, kink, residence, and marriage with those who mutually consent, without bullying, discrimination, or criminalization.

If you’re pan or you’re an ally to people who are, please feel free to comment. We’d like to hear from you, and you can remain anonymous.

We Get Letters

This blog gets comments on many posts.

I wanted to print a couple of recent ones here because I couldn’t publish them in their original form as I needed to redact a few words.

I’m trying to keep things here as “safe for work” as possible, and certain combinations of letters prompt filters to kick in.

“Jenny p” has left several comments on this blog. Below is one she left after this post: https://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/2020/07/for-parents-considering-consanguinamory.html

I'm a mother with her son here but feel I can give some advice: I think continually reinforcing a culture in your household that discussion about needs and wants isn't bad, but actually welcome, really helps. Ideally it should be possible for a father to express he has a sexual desire and wants something with implicit understanding this is just statement of fact and not an obligation. When this is all laid out on the table it'd be up to the daughter to decide how she wants to best act. To have sex with her dad or not. What I think is important is to realize that the worst state is for her to not know and be robbed of that decision. Perhaps in either case she doesn't want to go further but if the relationship is healthy she would still welcome the transparency and honesty. 

 

I admit it's a hard culture to get to. There's a lot of social stigma. For my son and I he got to a stage where he was comfortable enough to say what'd make him happy and i was used to this enough to not take it as shock. At the start i always made sure to be happy and praise him for sharing what he felt and would make sure to be honest with how i felt too. 

 

When the taboo of just talking plainly breaks down i think things inevitably move fast. Once you know they want something, when there is no doubt, everything is simplified. for me i remember thinking "well he wants this, i want him to have it, and he says he's certain he desires it... there's no miscommunication and there's no one lying or deceit.... so why don't I?" 

 

I want fathers to be able to say to their daughter "i want you to [fellate me] every day and swallow my load, if you did that i'd make me soo happy" and have it be as normal a conversation as as a father telling his daughter what he'd love to have for dinner or his dreams for retirement.

Anonymous left a comment here: https://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/2020/04/family-with-benefits.html

Myself and my elderly mother have enjoyed wonderful sex for sometime now and yes it’s very much like family with benefits, she is my sexual release from a sexless relationship, and I provide her with something she would otherwise be unable to experience. She absolutely loves intercourse and is very oral, often saying what a dirty sinful mother she is whilst we [do it]. We both derive enormous pleasure from what we are doing. How can this be wrong.

What do you think of those comments? Do you agree? Disagree?

You can leave comments within the specified rules after any entry on this blog, including anonymously.