Book Burning Is Bad

Dear Reader,

What do you do when you're online and you find something that is not your cup of tea, maybe even disgusts you?

If you're well-adjusted and healthy, you shrug and move on to something that interests or entertains you. Or you divert your gaze from the screen entirely and tend to things around you.

There's a fellow who decided to spend his spring break, according to him, pouring through media that upset him. Oh, it upset him so much that he kept pouring through it. And then he decided to write a couple of essays about it. But only because he disliked it so much. A whole lot. Really. That's why he decided to focus on it so much. It's a sacrifice he was willing to make for... power, apparently.

Both essays are preceded by a claim of having evidence of really, really bad stuff that someone can ask for privately. There's no reason why such evidence couldn't be described in the essays, unless the intention was to get the reader to think the absolute worst case scenarios since very few readers will actually bother to ask.



The first essay is probably not at all "inspired by" a bunch of other essays published recently, like one we analyzed here.

Incest-themed content has taken over the porn industry. And it has done so silently.

Not really.

Importantly, the bulk of incest content is not literally “incest,” as the actors are not, in reality, familially related. It is instead role play, hence the term “faux cest.” Reddit metrics show a clear growth trend in faux cest porn.

He goes on to point out the popularity of some Reddit forums dedicated to such material, and how popular porn collection websites report a lot of interest in the themes. Game of Thrones is mentioned as a possible reason.

But "incest"  has always been part of our stories. It shouldn't be alarming that is found in our erotic stories.

One familiar plot in porn is that of a long-term platonic relationship that, over the course of a film, becomes sexual. This plot contains a build-up of sexual tension over time, a mutual questioning of whether the sexualization of a relationship is okay, then a sudden release of tension. The plot offers the perception of a “chase,” because throughout the story, full-out sex is not guaranteed at any given moment.

Sounds like he must watch a lot of of the stuff.

Eventually, even viewers who previously had no interest in faux cest were inundated in the themes and began viewing it.

The devil made them do it?

But one fact is certain: The trend is unsettling.

Is it?

Because of its hardcore nature, faux cest porn may pose an even more severe threat of addiction than standard pornography. Porn addiction is a growing concern in America.

Those two sentences might be all you need to know about his mindset.

While many taboos, such as BDSM, same-sex, or multi-partner experiences can be explored safely (to some degree), it is more difficult to safely explore incest fetishes because of the deep emotional context necessary for full effect.

Furthermore, if faux cest porn is normalizing or “de-taboo-ing” incest, it may remove a social or psychological barrier for people desiring sexual relations with family members. This could lead to abuse and grooming, causing irreparable harm.

Just like porn about seducing the pool boy can lead to sexual harassment and abuse.



***TRIGGER WARNING: HATEFUL BIGOTRY AND DISCUSSION OF ASSAULT AHEAD***



He wasn't done. He decided he needed to attack people who enjoy themselves and each other. So this was his second essay.

Here was the headline...

There’s Something Sinister Happening in Reddit’s Incest Communities — Besides Incest Online forums are hotbeds for abuse and grooming advice

Please. People on those forums regularly went/go out of their way to speak up against grooming and abuse. A lot of garbage was posted there. But there was also some worthy material. No matter to the writer, however. He was determined to ruin things other people enjoy.

He leads off referencing Nazis, terrorists, and others to try to taint people for having a fetish or seeking affection with other consenting adults.

At first, I shied away.

I'm sure.

Then I realized there was another, much darker, much more grim side to this story, and not sharing my findings would make me complicit in something I really don’t want to be complicit in. So I started writing.

What a suffering hero!

For context, incest is illegal in the United States,

Not all states. But notice he doesn't include the qualifier "consensual." He wants to conflate abuse and affection. It's a dishonest tactic.

and is generally considered a Class 3 felony (similar to a battery or assault). Punishments are severe, often resulting in 5–25 years in prison.

Too short for abuse. Affection between consenting adults shouldn't be a crime.

The boundary of what is considered outside the definition of incest is usually at second and third cousins, while only a few areas permit sexual relations or marriage between first cousins.

Misleading. About half of states legally marry first cousins. Only a handful of state criminalize sex between first cousins.

In sum, incest is prosecuted harshly in America. This is for two primary reasons.

He takes a guess and picks Discredited Arguments 18, 19, and 20.

The illegality of incest adds another legal safeguard against grooming.

Not at all. It makes things worse. Criminalizing consensual activity makes abuse easier and makes it less likely that victims and witnesses of abuse will inform law enforcement or cooperate with law enforcement.

Abuse happens all of the time, unfortunately. Does he really think that things would get worse if we allowed consenting adults their basic rights? There are states and modern countries where consensual adult incest is not a crime. They don't have a problem of higher abuse rates.

If people really believed this, they would criminalize all casual sex to prevent date rape. They'd criminalize all BDSM to prevent domestic violence.

But the fact is, abuse and affection are two different things. People like this writer want to associate affection he doesn't like with abuse.

I contend that multiple online Reddit forums are acting, intentionally or unintentionally, as support groups and advice forums for groomers and sexual abusers. 

His contention is nonsense. Why didn't he go after Games of Thrones if he really thinks it is to blame for all of this?

He talks about the popularity of the forums.

While each of these subreddits have content that is simply hardcore faux cest porn, there is also a substantial portion of posts made that describe personal incest experiences. Aside from a few outliers, each personal experience is met with wholehearted support and encouragement, along with comments reading “hot,” or “that story really got me going.”

And each of those is about consenting adults. He apparently expects that they should be nothing but "It's yucky!!!"

This is supposed to be one of his examples of grooming advice.

“I’ve been having thoughts about my daughter in a kinda freaky sexy way. I just don’t know how to go about it. We have a great relationship. She walks around the house with very skimpy clothes on but never has flirted or anything. I’m just wondering how can I go about knowing if she wanted to play around that may lead up to something. Has anyone done this before? If so, are there any pointers that y’all can give me? Thanks in advance.”

Of course he picks a father/daughter example, which is perhaps subject to the most prejudice, to kick things off.

Then he admits...

The top-rated response at first instructed the poster not to misinterpret the daughter’s actions.

But the writer tosses that aside to focus on the rest, which is just one of countless postings.

"Maybe drop your towel and let her see something she shouldn’t as you act embarrassed. Or maybe let her hear you and your wife making love. Whatever you do, it’s got to be subtle and over a period of time. If you want to be a creep (not judging), start talking to her online. Be fun and normal and plant the seed of curiosity about family love. Maybe after awhile you two can cam bate together and see everything you want."

Not the best advice, to be sure. But notice...

"Whatever you do, don’t ruin your daughter’s image of her father because of your taboo desires and people here encouraging it."

But let's ignore that and pretend that this whole thing exists to encourage assault.

"Message me and I’ll fill you in on something you may like that can help you." 

The last sentence is curious, as it is unclear what advice this commenter could have that isn’t appropriate for the rest of the incest community’s eyes.

In reality, it was probably that the person didn't want the message or conversation to get too long, or wanted to send a link. It is very common to wrap up messages with writing something like that. It doesn't have to mean anything diabolical.

He goes on to frame another comment as promoting assault, but it is the kind of comment found in countless places giving men (often bad) advice on dating, "seduction," or on how to see if a woman likes them. It's hardly a problem unique to these particular forums. The good thing is, because open discussion was encouraged, other people often called out the bad advice. Read the comments section of almost any news item and you can find horrendous things. Should newspaper websites with comments be banned? It's ridiculous. If individuals participating pose problems, they should and are dealt with. Shutting down entire communities is mean-spirited and harmful.

Continuing through the essay, it is clear the writer's problem is based on his professed dislike of the subject matter. Nothing in the forum would escape his condemnation other than "Never have sex with a close relative" and "It's yucky!" 

He goes on to write about how he used deception to gain access to a private area of Reddit. He was determined to climb up on his roof so he could see his neighbor sunbathing and then complain about it, it appears.

Then he pulled this out of his colon...

The incest community is difficult to leave. Because the practice is taboo and illegal, once someone begins the practice, even if they later have doubts, the shame they would feel upon exiting the community could be crippling. Ostracization by society is likely and the threat of prison time is daunting. It is nearly impossible to swiftly shed the shame of a previous incestuous relationship.  

Therefore, incest communities are tied together via cult-like forces. Incestuous relationships may be maintained through a perverse form of mutually assured destruction.

Maybe he feels that way, but in all my years of helping people, including in various forums, I have never seen/heard/felt anything remotely like what he said. He's making it up or hallucinating. People leave forums all of the time, and the most that happens is people say "We'll miss you" or "Does anyone know how Dave is doing? I haven't seen him here in ages."

But if he truly believes what he wrote there, he should support decriminalization and lifting stigmas, so that people can "leave the community."

To be sure, no content on the subreddit explicitly promotes violent rape or specifically uses the words “molestation” or “grooming,” but the trend is undeniably present.

"Are you now, or have you ever been, someone who supported love?!?"

Here comes more attempts at guilt by association...

Reddit has a precedent for dismantling its own subreddits and has historically taken a hard line against content that promotes, explicitly or implicitly, violent or abusive sex acts. 

In one infamous scenario, Reddit deleted an “ask a rapist” thread after users started becoming sympathetic to the rapists (source). In other cases, Reddit has shuttered communities displaying excessively graphic or dangerous influences, such as in the case of “r/rapingwomen.”

And then he demanded action...

Similar action must be taken in the case of some, if not all of the listed incest communities in this article.

And he got it because he sent his screed to the "right" people. And he danced a victory jig in another area of the service, not caring one bit that he's doing far more harm than good. After all, he's a big, powerful man! He selectively misrepresented discussion forums and got them removed or hidden. What a prince!

He made it a little more difficult for people to find what they want on Reddit. There are countless other ways for these people, almost all of whom are consanguinamorists, fetishists, the curious, or trolls (not abusers), to connect and find what they want.

These people are your neighbors. As the writer himself noted, the topics are very popular in certain media. The topics aren't going to go away. They have always been in our stories because they've always been part of life. Is he going to call for banning Greek mythology next?

Aside from the trolls, the overwhelming majority people who want to discuss it in places like Reddit aren't harming anyone. Continuing to persecute them just drives them more and more into spaces where they will be forced to mix with people who are actually facilitating harm. It is people like the writer who are harming people when they conflate sex and abuse and dismiss consent.

If a space needs to be shut down because of allegations of abuse and grooming by some of the individuals in that space, then we need to close schools, churches, scouting organizations, charities, private homes, sports teams and leagues, shopping malls, all social media, night clubs, bars, bowling alleys... pretty much all of society.

If you don't like a forum or any media you encounter, exercise your freedom to click away from it, turn it off, close the book. Don't burn books.

Consenting adults should be free to be together however they mutually agree, and adults should be able to discuss realities and fantasies about such relationships, no matter who is disgusted.

What do you have to say about this? Comment below. You can do so anonymously, if you'd like.