NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #6

“Your relationship will hurt children.” This is usually said by people who themselves hurt children by denying rights to the parents of those children and telling the children that their parents are wrong for loving each other, perpetuating a stigma about the children and their families.

Don’t want children of these relationships to be hurt? Then stop hurting their families.

Adults having a relationship with each other, adults reproducing together, and adults raising children together are three different things. Adults can do any one of those without doing the other two, or any two of those without doing the third. Or, to put it another way, we’re talking about sex, relationships, and marriage, not about reproduction or adoption or parenting. Most sex does not result in a birth.

We don’t deny people their right to be together because they can’t or won’t reproduce. We don’t deny people their right to be together because they won’t be good candidates for adoption. We don’t test people on their parenting skills before we allow them to marry, but if we did, a lot of the prejudiced people who want to deny rights to others would fail, while many people who are still fighting for their relationship rights would pass with flying colors.

So this reason to oppose equality already fails. But for the sake of argument let’s assume there will be children.

Why? Many of the Same Reasons Anyone Else Does It

Vicky Wireko wrote at myjoyonline.com under "Reality Zone: Why would a father sleep with his biological daughter?"

Without yet getting to the text of the piece, the terms need to be defined. By "sleep," she no doubt means intercourse. But is she referring to rape or is she referring to consensual sex?  Rape and lovemaking are two different things. Rape should always be illegal. Lovemaking should never be illegal. But "biological daughter" can mean a woman the father didn't meet or didn't have a relationship with until she was an adult, or at least hasn't had a relationship with since an early age. Consanguinamory initiated through Genetic Sexual Attraction has a different dynamic than consanguinamory growing from an existing sociological relationship.

Why would a father make love with his biological daughter? I'm talking about CONSENTING ADULTS here.

For many of the the same reasons a man would have sex with any woman:

He's a heterosexual male and she's a receptive or initiating female he finds attractive.

They love each other.

It feels good and is fun. This is especially true when it comes to consanguinamory.

To bond.

To express love.

To have children.

Some of them have been brought together through Genetic Sexual Attraction, some of them haven't.

There are many reasons, but they shouldn't need to justify it to anyone else. Why is ultimately theirs to share, not anyone else's business. Perhaps a better question is why wouldn't/shouldn't he? Sex is not a bad thing. Those who think it is are probably doing it wrong.

What did Wireko have to say? Let's see...

Everything is certainly wrong with a father sleeping with his blood daughter.

 Does she give a reason?

It is repugnant apart from the fact that it is a taboo in our custom.

Ah, Discredited Arguments #1 and 2.

However, when a father’s love for his daughter straddles beyond parental love veering off to lust, to the extent of sexual abuse, it becomes horrendous.

Abuse and lovemaking are two different things. She goes on to write about abuse, without giving a good reason as to why consenting adults shouldn't be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage. Don't like it? Don't do it. But there ARE adult women in loving spousal-type relationships with their biological fathers, despite what prejudiced bigots think.

Please also see Intergenerational Relationships Can Work 



why would a woman sleep with her father why would a father and daughter have sex why would a parent have sex with an adult child why would a woman have sex with her father

The Secret of Siblings

We have another exclusive interview to bring you. 

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. Most can’t even be out of the closet or they’ll face persecution and prosecution under absurd incest laws, which, instead of focusing on abuse, also target consensual relationships.

The man interviewed below should be free to legally and publicly marry his lover, or simply be with her without having to hide, yet they can’t. Prejudice can be deadly. They are consenting adults; why should they have been denied their rights? In much of the world, they could be criminally prosecuted for loving each other this way, and might be persecuted severely in addition.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what he has to say about the love they share. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic, but whatever your reaction, should lovers like these be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

Also please note that someone you love, respect, and admire could be in a similar relationship right now. Should they be attacked and denied rights because of the "incest" label? 

*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe your background.

Shahid Khan: I am an employee in a private transport firm in Pakistan. I am a normal-looking Pakistan boy. I’m not much handsome, but an OK boy. My age is 24 right now. I am a sports loving person. We are two siblings; a brother and a sister. We are an upper middle class family where sex is a taboo. In our family, everything is in our parents’ hand; you can't do anything until their approval.

FME: Are you married?

No, I am not married yet. While my sister recently got married to a man chosen by our parents, we have one benefit: she visits our house every week regularly.

FME: How would you describe your gender? How would you describe your sexual orientation?

I am a heterosexual male and my sister is a heterosexual female.

FME: You currently live with...?

I currently live with my parents 

FME: You are in a sexual relationship with your biological sister? Is she your full sister or half sister?

I am in sexual relationship with my sister. She is my full elder sis.

FME: What was your childhood like? What was family life like? Were alternative lifestyles or sex discussed in your family, and if so, how? Can you describe your sexual awakening?

We are normal middle-class family where the word “sex” is taboo. I got my sexual awaking from porn movies and sex stories. I read a sex story of a real brother and sister while I was just 15 years old. From there, I was looking at my sister as my sex partner.

FME: When  did sexual affection become a part of the relationship?

When I was 15, and the love of my life, my sister, was 17. We belong to a middle-class family where talk about sex is an abnormal thing. We are the only siblings. There were two rooms in our house: one for parents and one for me and my sister. We slept together from childhood. It’s all well until I started to read incest siblings stories on the Internet and getting interested in her.

I started to touch her sometimes at night; touch her [behind], rub her [behind]…touch her [front]…One night, she turned to my side, looked into my eyes, moved to me and hugged me tight.

I hugged her back, and then we did everything except intercourse, because of privacy.

After that, we waited almost three months more. One of our relatives died, and our parents went to their house and stayed until the funeral. That  night we had our first sex. It was not great, because it's the first time for both of us. We did it three times that night.

FME: Can you describe your feelings during that?

I was a bit nervous at the start, but honestly I can't describe my feelings the day after. I felt a lot of shame and regret but it kept decreasing.

FME: Before this had you ever thought this would be possible or enjoyable; did you have any opinion one way or the other about close relatives or family members being together?

I couldn’t imagine it, even. Nobody can imagine it in a family where sex is taboo.

If anyone want to love live and f—- anyone then no one has the right to stop them. They could be brother, sister, father, daughter, mother, son.

I don't have feelings for anyone else.

FME: How do you describe the sex after you were established as sexual partners?

It's just a beautiful phase of our life. We still have sex whenever she comes to our house for staying. We still f— each other like crazy. 

I tell you, at the start, I felt kinky, but after a year, we felt like a normal couple.

FME: Describe what your relationship now.

She's married, but we are still the siblings-with-benefits. She married because she can't overrule our parents’ orders, but from the heart she’s my wife and we are still acting and living like husband and wife whenever she comes to our house and we get an opportunity. She says all the time, and I say, that we are the first and last for each other. 

FME; Do you sleep together, or do you sleep in separate beds?

Whenever she comes to our house we still sleep together.

Our parents don’t know it. We are just two siblings and there are two rooms in our house.

Whenever nobody else is home, we’ve enjoyed it, and we do it in washroom and store room.

FME: Do you have any children together, and if so, how are they?

Yes, one is on the way after her marriage; she's pregnant with my baby.

FME: Does anyone in your life know the full, true nature of your relationship and how did they find out?

No one.

FME: Having to hide the full nature of your relationship from some people can be a disadvantage. Can you describe how that has been? 

It's really difficult in family gatherings, but now we are used to it.

FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship?

If you can't help anyone, don't stop anyone.

FME: If you could legally marry, and that included protections against discrimination, harassment, etc., would you?

If this happens, I'll ask her to divorce and we'll get married. 

FME: What advice do you have for someone who may be experiencing these feelings for a relative or family member, especially a sibling?

Enjoy each other and leave behind thinking about society. Just focus on your love.

FME: Any plans for the future?

Until it's legalization, we don't have any plans.

*****

Clearly, these are consenting adults, and yet they can't even exercise their basic human rights as things are now. They are happy, yet they are denied fundamental rights. They can't even be open about their love without risking harassment or much worse.

While this blog endorses disclosed, consensual, or ethical nonmonogamy, not cheating, we do recognize that where marriages are arranged, lovers like these had little practical choice.

Why should they be denied their rights? There’s no good reason. We need to recognize that all adults should be free to be with any and all consenting adults as they mutually consent, and part of doing that is adopting relationship rights for all, including full marriage equality sooner rather than later. People are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here. As you'll see, there are people from all walks of life, around the world, who are in consanguinamorous relationships.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.

If you want to be interviewed about your "forbidden" relationship, or that of someone you know, connect with me by checking under the "Get Connected" tab there at the top of the page or emailing me at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com or on Wire messaging app at fullmarriageequality, X/Twitter at FullMEquality, or Facebook. I usually check for private/direct messages and respond in less than a day, so if I don't it might mean your message didn't get delivered.

If you know someone who is in a relationship that's anything like this, or "taboo" or "forbidden," please read this.

Thank you, Sahid, for telling us about your consanguinamorous relationship. We wish you both well, especially on the pregnancy and parenthood.

Martin Luther King, Jr.

In the US, Monday is a holiday, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Day. He was a giant in the fight for civil rights.



Many decades after he was assassinated, the fight for civil rights continues.

History is on our side. All consenting adults will be free to exercise their rights to share love, sex, kink, residence, and marriage.

Are you like those who kept trying to keep some people second-class citizens, or are you like the people who marched with King?

This is how you can help.

Living Consanguinamorously - What About Roles?

Q: In a consanguinamorous relationship, what happens to the biological roles?

This is sometimes asked as “Do they still see themselves as siblings (or parent/child, etc.)?” or various other questions.

A (Short): It depends. Every situation has some differences from others.

A (Long): One of the questions usually asked in the exclusive interviews featured on this blog is that very question. Consanguineous lovers are asked if they see each other primarily as lovers or as family or if those things are inseparable. Hopefully in any relationship, people see each other as people first and foremost.

Relationships come in many varieties.

Consanguinamorous Youth

This blog is about equal rights for consenting adults.

But what about legal minors? It is dangerous to ignore that many legal minors experiment, explore, and get affectionate. I'm talking about age peers. I'm also addressing young people who have feelings for a parent, aunt, uncle, or other significantly older relative. If an older person is coercing you, or messing with you while you (try to) sleep, that's NOT what this is about. Don't let anyone abuse you!

Much of this entry on how consanguinamorous people can protect themselves is relevant, as can this entry on living together.

This essay is a result of someone anonymous contacting this blog's sister Tumblr to describe a situation he had experienced in his life and to ask if there are any resources to help people who are currently in the position he'd been in so many years ago.

A subsequent message was from a teacher who had to report minors who've revealed their experiences with consanguineous sex, due to mandatory reporting laws that apply to people in certain jobs.

What do you do if you're in a consanguineous relationship or you think you have a consanguinamorous orientation, but you're under the age of consent or not a legal adult?

Please note: Most of this entry is going to be strictly about how things are and practical situations, not about the morality of any given situation or actions. While we welcome all adults and anyone struggling due to prejudice against their gender identity, sexual orientation, or relationships, this entry is NOT endorsing or advocating underage sex or anything else illegal.

Are These Fantasies Normal?

I'm continuing a series here of answers I posted to Quora that got attacked by censors.

*****

https://www.quora.com/Ive-been-fantasizing-about-my-sister-is-this-normal-Should-I-do-something-to-stop-this/answer/Keith-Pullman

I've been fantasizing about my sister, is this normal? Should I do something to stop this?

Keith Pullman

I have interviewed hundreds of people about their families. 4y

I don’t know how old you are, or how old your sister is, but if you’re a teenager or older, fantasies are common, and if your sister is older than you or no more than a few years younger, fantasizing about her isn’t abnormal.

Many people you know have fantasized about their own siblings.

Believe it or not, some of them have actually had sex with their sibling. It is common enough that you know someone who has, even if you’re not aware that they have.

If you’re like most people, you are going to have many fantasies throughout your life. And unless you have a very stunted imagination or are incredibly lucky, many of your fantasies won’t be fulfilled in real life. But at least some of them can be.

*****

NOTE: These specific answers in this series were "deleted" at Quora after being there for a while and being well-received. They were probably hidden from view because some bigot targeted me, as evidenced by the fact that many were deleted in rapid fire.

I have previously appealed such deletions successfully. However, whether or not my deleted answers are restored, I’ll be adding them to this blog. You’ll see for yourself there’s no reason to delete these answers.