New Generic Look

Every once in a while, I'd get a comment that the colors/graphics were not friendly to some eyes. I want this blog to be as readable as possible. I'd like to avoid a generic white background with black type if I can. For now, this is it.

Please see this posting if you think you can help the look for this blog.

Laws Applied to Consanguineous Interactions Being Reconsidered

Incest laws are being reconsidered in various places, and that has made some news. As we have argued and demonstrated many times on this blog, consensual sex and relationships should never be criminalized or discriminated against, and should not be lumped together with assault/abuse/molestation, which is something completely different and that laws should treat very seriously.

At ozarksfirst.com, Laurie Patton writes about what is happening in Missouri.

When children are sexually victimized, the crime is usually committed by a relative or someone else close to the victim.

Of course. This is like saying people are much more likely to get into automobile accidents within a certain distance from home. That is where they are most of the time.

A Burning Love Denied Equality

By my count, this is the thirty-first ongoing relationship I've covered through exclusive interviews in which the lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law.

David and Athena are, as you'll see, intelligent and productive members of society. Their love for each other is beautiful.  Yet they face discrimination and prejudice for their love. They're names have been changed to protect them.

Read the interview below and ask yourself if there is one good reason these two consenting adults should be denied their rights or should have to hide.


*****



FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe your background and who you are.

Athena: I am a 35-year-old litigation paralegal. I have an Associate’s degree in Paralegal Studies and a Bachelor’s degree in Business Management. I do not have any children nor have I ever been married. I live by myself but David and I plan on moving in with each other within the next six months.

David: I’m 47 and I have a BS in Biology. I am extremely well read. My maternal grandparents raised me and Grandma was a librarian. I am a lab tech and do research in the automotive industry. I am 5’8” 195 lbs. I have lifted weights since I was 10. I also play racquetball and do cardio at the gym. I have dark brown hair and blue eyes. I have five half-siblings and no children of my own. I live in the US in the Great Lakes area. I am told I have a good sense of humor but have an intense personality. Whatever I do I am all in. I have not been married. I currently live alone.

Search of the Day

Someone came to this blog via this search…

How do I get my mom to want incest?

One of the most frequently asked questions about consaguinamory (consensual incest) is how the asker can initiate such activity. As usual, this answer is about consensual sex, not abuse, child molestation,etc. Please note that this is assuming all people involved are independent legal adults and in places where such activities are not illegal.

There is no one-size-fits-all answer, because people are different and relationships are all different. As such, only very generalized information can be provided unless an asker talks one-on-one with someone who might be able to help.

The Bad News

It may not be possible. The matter can be as simple as… they’re not attracted to you and nothing will change that, or they simply are not interested or willing to have sex with you and nothing will change that. And that needs to be respected, because a person’s feelings and boundaries are their own and sex or lovemaking can only be something that is by mutual consent. Coercion, force, etc. means it isn’t sex or lovemaking; it is assault and abuse.

It is even more complicated when it comes to family members or relatives, because of what has been described as the Westermarck effect and societal prejudices. Because of those things, a person may have a history of demonstrating a strong attraction to people very much like the asker, and yet may not have an attraction to the asker or may have an attraction but may not be willing to consider the asker as a sexual partner. Whether it is an internal, biological mechanism or a result of socialization, many people are turned off to this. In the case of a parent or other older relative, it could be just of a matter of them seeing the asker as their little boy or little girl (even though they are grown) that overrides all else.

The Good News

Some people do it. Not everyone experiences the Westermarck effect. In the cases of genetic relatives raised separately, there is often a very strong attraction, but even when there was no separation in their lives, some close relatives have active attractions (think about it… if the asker has such an attraction, obviously some do) and sometimes those attractions are reciprocated. Even if not actively experienced, they can be awakened.

So, it does happen. Consanguineous lovemaking, sex, or experimentation is common enough that everyone knows someone who is, or has been, involved, and this has been a reality for all of human existence.

So, What To Do?

1. First and foremost, the asker should consider if they really want to try this. This is what I’ve written about that. Some of what is below rehashes some of what I wrote there.

2. The next important question is, do they know what is it they want? Is the asker looking for a fling, a family-member-with-benefits situation, a life partner… what?

3. Is the person available? Even if they are not in a closed relationship, they may not be available for a sexual relationship, for whatever reason. Determining this might be part of the overall tactical approach.

4. Send signals. Signals are more effective when the other person is looking for them, meaning they already have a mutual interest in making the relationship sexual. There are two general categories of signals one should send:

   a) "I'm a sexual being." This will be necessary if the other person is not already thinking about it, because they are thinking of the asker strictly as a son, or brother, or sister, etc.

   b) "I want you." Compliments, for example. Not crude or rude, but maybe a little more on the romantic or sexual side. The asker should let the other person know that the asker has respect and admiration for what they have to offer as a partner and their sexuality.

For either of those, flirting, playful teasing, jokes, and general double entrendres can send signals while also allowing plausible deniability so as to minimize the risk of embarrassment or awkwardness. The same goes for bringing up a news story or a book/movie/television show/song where consensual incest is an element, even if it has to be made up. For example, saying "I was reading that [insert the name of country] was considering legalizing consensual incest, and I thought it was kind of strange it was outlawed to begin with. Did you know that?"

Another signal is increasing the physicality of the relationship. For example, if you typically hug each other, then that would be keeping the embrace longer.

The specifics ultimately depend on the people involved, and their personalities and history together. In some cases, a vacation away together with plenty of wining, dining, dancing, etc. will move things along. For others, it would be a quiet evening together at home. For some, a dare would not be unusual. For others, a massage. Consider appealing to your love one's intellect (be prepared to answer concerns), heart, and libido.

5. Here’s what NOT to do in this asker’s specific case (trying to woo his mother), despite what may be depicted in erotic stories or videos…

• As I said above, do not force yourself on anyone.
• Do not violate her privacy (like spying on her when she is expecting privacy) or take her things (such as her underwear)
• Do not expect that by suddenly waving an erection around (assuming you have a penis) or “getting caught” masturbating that mom will turn into your unbridled, passionate sex kitten.

Those things will usually only work in fiction. In case you haven’t noticed, fiction, especially involving fantasy, often departs from what happens in reality.

6. Consider the future.

The Final Manifesto Defends Consanguinamory

The Final Manifesto has provided an awesome defense of consanguinamory as part of a right to full marriage equality.

A Couple of Questions About Bigamy and Polygamy

Answered in our Tumblr.

Search Phrase of the Day

Someone found this blog by searching...

is sibling incest on the increase?

I'm going to assume the search was about consensual incest, not assault or abuse. Sibling consanguinamory is one of the most common topics on this blog. See, for example, Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory and the interviews I have done with sibling lovers.

The question asked in the search is part of the larger question of how common consanguineous sex is.

At least one study in the 1970s, if I recall correctly, showed that by the time people were in their early 20s, over 10% of them had consensual sexual contact with a sibling.

Some amount of sibling experimentation, and even lifelong spousal relationships, has been going on for all of human history. It goes on in other species, too.

One might argue that, as populations have shifted from sparsely populated rural areas to densely populated urban areas, humans have had other people to be with, and thus this kind of interaction with siblings has decreased. However, without even counting the increase in Genetic Sexual Attraction, the shift away from general sexual repression likely means sibling involvement has increased, even more so if someone counts stepsiblings. The figures from the 1970s are no doubt lower that the statistics one might find today.

So the TL;DR on this is yes, it has increased.

The Benefits of Polyandry

With Kenya passing a law that allows polygyny, I wanted to bump this up.

This piece from Kenya discusses polyandry, which is one wife with multiple husbands; in this hypothetical, five husbands.

I have come up with a few advantages and I mean practical advantages of polyandry

Greater economic power (multiple breadwinners, single mortgage)

Death of a parent less likely to result in poverty or destitution for the remaining family members

Common household tasks spread among more people

More personal time available to all members, without depriving children of attention

Potentially more enjoyable sex life without the risk of venereal disease

Less likelihood of being left for another man because if I fancy a 6th he will just join the gang

I’m sure you can think of more.

Just one major drawback - the jealously factor polyandry can only work with full, enthusiastic consent of all involved.

Consent is essential.

So Just like all the men advocating for poplygamy I am advocating for one wife many husbands. can I hear an AMEN sisters and brothers?

There are both men and women who advocate polygyny (multiple wives, one husband) and, for that matter, polyandry.

Request For GSA Experienced

As always, I advise caution in dealing with journalists and media personnel. They may not portray you or GSA in a positive or accurate light by the time they are done with what it is they are doing. Also, there is the matter of privacy. However, if people who've experienced Genetic Sexual Attraction do assist the media, perhaps the net result will be positive as more people learn about GSA. Raising awareness is good.

This request was posted at Experience Project by an account listed as littlestar89 22-25 F.

Hello everyone, I came across this group and have read through some really interesting and remarkable stories. It sounds like some of you have come on a real journey.
I am a feature writer for women's magazines in the UK and I am interested in speaking to people who've experienced GSA, for a women's magazine feature. 

I'm really keen to raise awareness for GSA in order to help people who are experiencing feelings that may confuse them - I really think that reading about other people's experiences could help them. 

If anyone is interested in sharing their story in a UK magazine, I'd really love to speak to you. 

You'd be paid for your stories, and we can guarantee that we will read back to you what has been written, before anything is published, to make sure you are 100% happy with what has been written. 

If anyone is interested, or has any questions, please don't hesitate to get in touch: cher.heasmer@pressassociation.com

As always, you can share with me your experiences with GSA, and I will not trash you nor violate your privacy. My contact information is in the commenting instructions.

A Positive Introduction to Polyamory

At thelinknewspaper.ca, Madeleine Gendreau writes about some of the benefits of polyamorous relationships.

I never really considered the concept of being in relationship with different people simultaneously as having a name, or any sort of connotation at all. It was just a thing that happened, a friendship that shifted, with the added benefit of a sexual relationship.

That happens a lot.

There is never one template to define relationships, regardless of how many parties are involved.

That is important to remember.

Different people have different definitions of what polyamory is; James sees it as a matter of primary and additional relationships.

Ask two polyamorists, you might get three definitions.

Anna found it helpful to view her sexual relationships as extensions of friendships. “A healthy relationship is a solid friendship foundation,” she says. “You don’t have only one friend at a time, so in the same way, if you meet someone else who is cool your friend hopefully doesn’t get territorial and make you decide.”

That's a good way to look at it.

And above all, it was the communication, consent, and the continuous checking-in with one another that has kept that particular relationship strong, not the number of people involved.

At this point in my life I have found myself in a series of polyamorous relationships. The people I choose to spend time with each fulfill different facets of my life that make me happy.

Glad to see another positive piece on polyamory.

Doing What the Royals Did?

Out of Egypt comes this very interesting story, found at emirates247.com, about someone doing what the Egyptian royals (and non royals) did throughout history... have sex with a sibling.

An Egyptian woman who moved in with her husband to her brother’s apartment became involved in an affair with her brother while her husband filmed them.

Before anyone asks... no, I don't have a link to the video.

Sabra told police that poverty pushed her to do so and that she enjoyed sleeping with her brother more than with her husband Mohammed.

I can understand poverty causing them to move in together. I know that people typically report consanguineous sex to be the best they've ever had.

When her brother’s wife discovered the relationship, she angrily left home

Ah, so this was cheating?

and went to live with her brother.

Hmmmm.

After telling her brother why she left, he proposed that they all sleep together in the same bed.

Interesting. Was this adapted from something printed by Penthouse? If this is serious, my guess is that some of the people involved had this planned out.

“My husband knows about this and to be frank, he encouraged me to do this.

“He even films us when I have sex with my brother. It became an addiction.”

 Like I said, it can be an unparallelled experience.

Newspapers quoted Mohammed as telling the court “We were very happy until our neighbour discovered the affair and started to put pressure on us to have sex.

“When we refused, he reported us to the police.”

A rat.

The papers said the couples refused to file any complaint, prompting the prosecutor to release them all.

Which papers? We don't know. Maybe somebody is just trying to get hits?

Interesting Search Phrase of the Day

Here's how someone got to this blog. They searched for...

how to tell if someone is having consensual incest

Well, one way would be to catch them in the act. However, if that involves snooping, barging in to private areas, being a peeper, etc... well, that's not so good.

Another way would be to notice if they're always smiling and glowing like they've having the best sex ever. Just kidding. Kinda.

Seriously, observing how they behave around the person(s) you think they are secretly with or how they talk about that person might give it away. When people are in love, it can be hard to hide.

The question I have is, why does this person want to know? If it is just curiosity, assume whatever you'd like to. Just don't talk about it to others because it really isn't anyone's business, and since consanguinamory is still criminalized in many places and consanguineous lovers are otherwise subjected to discrimination, they shouldn't be outed (unless they are someone, such as a prosecutor or legislator, perpetuating discrimination against other consanguineous lovers.)

If someone wants to know because they want to be supportive, that's another matter. Here's the advice I have written for people who are friends and family of consanguineous lovers. The Final Manifesto has this excellent advice for friends and family of consanguinamorous siblings. [That link might not be working, so try this.]

The trick to getting someone to confide in you that they are involved on consanguinamory is to signal to them that they can. The way to do this to convey the message that you 1) do not condemn consanguinamory, 2) care about them, and 3) can keep a secret. 

Communicating #1 can be as easy as saying something like (especially if you have one of them alone), "I was reading about a country that is considering repealing laws against consensual sex, particularly a law they have against close relatives having sex. I was surprised some places still have laws like that. I mean, if they are consenting adults, what's the big deal?" Or if you live in the US, you can say something like "I was reading about how different states have different laws. I was surprised to read that a couple states still criminalize consensual sex between first cousins, and that only a few states do not have any laws against consensual incest, no matter how closely related. I would think most, if not all states, would have repealed such ridiculous laws against consensual sex."

The worst-case scenario is that they are not only NOT involved, but they disagree with your statement, in which case you can ask them why they disagree. If they accuse YOU of wanting to be involved, you can point out that someone doesn't have to secretly want someone of another race to support interracial marriage, or someone doesn't have to be a woman to support women's rights. Otherwise, they may shrug their shoulders or agree, but not reveal anything to you (at least not right away.) That could be because they aren't involved. Or, they may open up to you, which would be great because most people in consanguinamorous relationships really appreciate support and someone to talk with.

There are other ways of communicating #1 or furthering the point, such as saying you read someone talking about these books, or saying you were reading about how common it is and that everyone knows someone involved, and asking, "What do you think about that?"

Another way is saying that you notice that in discussions about marriage equality, some people want to keep denying close relatives their freedom to marry and you just can't think of a good reason why someone would want to stop people from being together if they love each other.


Another way that might work, if their facade is that they aren't in a relationship with anyone, or they've been mysterious about who they are seeing, is to say something like, "I want to be happy. If you're happy not being in a relationship, I support you. And if you're in a relationship, as long as everyone involved in a consenting adults, I support you."

The trick is to give them enough wiggle room to pick up the ball and run with it, if they are ready to. They may not, or may not do it right away, but there are ways of letting them know you would be supportive that are not likely to give someone who ISN'T involved the idea that you think ARE involved. You can also prevent a misunderstanding by saying something like, "I don't have any secret crushes on relatives myself, but it isn't wrong to have them."