Housekeeping

Thanks to a very kind reader of this blog, this blog is getting a facelift that should make it better. We are not done. Please stick with us. There are still some things to work out.

Asking a Good Question

Discussions like the one below pop up everywhere. This one at collegenet.com was started by claskate who asked, "Is incest always bad?"

Recently a father and daughter were charged with two counts of third degree felony incest, both facing up to 5 years in prison. The father is 52 years old and the daughter is 24 years old. They both knew they were biologically related and it was a consensual relationship. The daughter was adopted as a child and then found her father when she was 21. They got to know each other and a year after they met, they started having sexual relations.

She is referring to this case in Utah.

If the incest is consensual should they still be tried?

No, they shouldn't. They should be free to be together and to marry, if that is what they want.

Would you condone this relationship if they truly loved each other even though they are related?

Of course I would.

Would you still consider it wrong if they didn't know they were blood related?

It isn't wrong even when people do know they are blood related.

shinny437 was first to respond.

New Map of Consanguinamory Legality Around The World

The Final Manifesto continues do do excellent work. Here is the new map pertaining to consanguineous sex and relationships.

When Polyamorists Become Parents

Red Peril writes on parenting and polyamory at More Than Nuclear. In this entry, Red addresses "But what about the children?" She mentions being subjected to insults because of her sexual and relationship orientation.

The assumption is that although it may be one thing to be non-monogamous without children, if you decide to start a family, it's really time to put all that aside and just be normal, for the sake of the children.

With that in mind, my theory about the spectrum of acceptance of alternative lifestyles runs broadly along these lines:

1. Your way of life is immoral and you disgust me (no acceptance).
2. What consenting adults do behind closed doors is okay, but don't rub my nose in it in public.
3. I have no problem with you or your way of life, but I think that all children need one mother and one father, so you shouldn't ever have children.
4. How you live, who you are or what you have chosen may or may not be for me, but it shouldn't prevent you from the same range of possible participation in society that everyone else has (full acceptance).

That's a good way of putting in as basic terms as possible.

Elizabeth Sheff has conducted some of the most extensive research into polyamorous parenting so far, and one of her interesting findings is that far from being confused or by their non-traditional families, children aged 5-8 with three or more parents barely seem to even notice. Children are pretty self-centred, and so how the adults in their life relate to each other isn't particularly important to them. "A 6-year-old may not think of someone as mommy's girlfriend, but think of that person as 'the one who brings Legos' or 'the one who takes me out to ice cream," Sheff explains. To think about it another way, if you had close relationships as a child with non-parental members of your biological family, how much thought did you give to the fact that your uncle was your mother's brother, or your grandmother was your father's mother? I'm willing to bet that that was far less important and interesting than the time the two of you spent together, and the bond that was personal to you.

Read the rest here.

How can it be bad for a child to see adults behaving is a loving, friendly, and cooperative way with each other? How can it be bad for a child to have more adults being a positive influence on their lives? As with monogamous parents, this is all subject to the adults being kind and loving people, rather than abusers or otherwise toxic. In some cultures, including some Western ones, it has long been standard (or used to be) for children to grow up with more than three adults in the home, especially grandparents, aunts, and uncles.

Imagine if people were more honest and rather than claiming children are going to have a problem with their parents' relationships, they simply admitted, "I don't get it" or "I'm uncomfortable with the thought of this?"

Update on Nebraska Prosecution

There's an update on this story we've been following that apparently involves Genetic Sexual Attraction. Anndrea Anderson is reporting at kotanow.com that the male defendant has entered a plea of not guilt.

18-year-old Yonathan Lara-Robles went in front of Judge Leo Dobrovonly Friday afternoon to be arraigned in District Court.

Interesting. In previous reports he was said to be 19. Honorable Judge Leo Dobrovonly, please throw this case out. It is embarrassing that any state would continue to prosecute people for consensual sex.

County Attorney Doug Warner says the girl will be charged in juvenile court.

So then who is the victim, if she is being charged, too? Still no word in the news on any prosecution for the ATTEMPTED MURDER of the girl by her own mother. Why isn't her name and picture all over the news? How absurd.

Another Couple Denied Their Freedom to Marry

It's always nice to hear from people helped by my blog. Some messages stick out more than others. A while back I got an email containing the following...



[Removed at the request of the interview subject. I apologize for any inconvenience.]

 
You can read interviews I have done with others here and read my advice to friends and family members here.

A Lily Pad is Needed

You may have seen recent reports of a building in Brooklyn identified as a place for polyamorous people. Having places were ethical nonmonogamy is supported in the middle of a larger culture where monogamy is the official party line is nothing new. See, for example, the Oneida Community. More recently, and ongoing, New Culture camps are welcoming and supportive. Whether retreats or persistent residential communities, whatever form of ethical nonmonogamy it is called (free love, polaymory, polygamy, plural marriage, group marriage, open relationships, swinging), it has always gone on, sometimes hidden for safety.

Having safe places for people who are targeted for discrimination is an ongoing tradition of compassion and self-preservation. African Americans had a printed directory of places that would offer welcoming accommodations during travels. LGBT people had gay bars, which were sometimes targeted for raids.

I have said, half jokingly, in discussions with Friends of Lily that what lovers in consanguinamorous relationships need are places called Lily Pads. Currently, people in these relationships can only be free if they relocate permanently. Otherwise, vacations far from home can provide the only time they can stroll hand in hand, smooch, dance, and share a romantic night out.

It is really a shame that there would have to be places set aside for consenting adults to love each other without others causing them trouble. Let's keep evolving into a more positive world!

Zimbabwe Sending Consenting Adults to Jail

From iharare.co.zw comes this report that two consenting adults have been sentenced to jail for having sex.

A Mbare brother and sister have been thrown behind bars for the next 12 months for having prohibited sexual intercourse-incest. 

The pair was caught red handed in the act by another family member before they were taken to the police.

They were ratted out by family. They shouldn't have to hide, but where bigotry still prevails, precautions are a good idea. 

 Tendai, 30 and Nyaradzai, 22, of Zengeni family were brought before Mbare Magistrates’s court answering to a charge of having sexual intercourse within a prohibited degree of relationship.

That shouldn't even be a crime. They should be free to be together and marry, if that is what they want.

All their hopes of getting an out of custody were shattered after the presiding officer Magistrate Anita Tshuma condemned their conduct. 

I wonder if everyone approves of every aspect of Tshuma's love life?

In passing sentence, the Magistrate described the pair as lovers in a serious relationship who had not repented after they were caught red handed in December last year. Their conduct has proved that they can not change thus they need a custodial sentence so that they are separated from each other.  although they came clean and pleaded guilty,the Magistrate slapped them with 24 months imprisonment, 12 months were then suspended conditional they do not commit the same offence in five years.

Outrageous.

The State proved that the two were having unprotected intercourse on several occasions before they were suspected of the affair by their brother Edward and their stepmother Chipo Mungeni.

Perhaps someone was jealous? Family members and friends should read this.

Further circumstances are that Edward and the mother confronted them, of which they denied the act.All hell broke loose when they were caught red handed caressing each other on May 17 at around 10pm.  

Oh, no, caressing each other! We can't have people actually being affectionate, can we? What a waste of law enforcement resources. Let them out and let them be! This is another example of why we need full marriage equality worldwide.

Extreme Victim Blaming in Nebraska

The people of the US state of Nebraska should be highly offended by the despicable actions of a few people in law enforcement. The incalculably valuable The Final Manifesto first alerted us on Tumblr about this case. While the news reports are headlined with an arrest over "incest," and it is absurd and unjust to prosecute people for consensual sex, the bigger news is that the victim of an attempted murder and domestic violence, who turned to law enforcement for protection, has instead found not only her consensual lover arrested for consensual sex, but herself as well! What kind of message does this send to victims of violence? "We're going to pry into your sex life and prosecute you!"?!?

Maunette Loeks reported at starherald.com in a story headlined "Scottsbluff man accused of incest"(probably written to evoke thoughts of some older man molesting a little child)...

A 19-year-old man is facing a felony incest charge after allegations came to light during a domestic violence call Monday. Scottsbluff police responded Monday at about 7 p.m. to a home on West 14th Street. A teen-aged girl at the residence reported that her mother had assaulted her the previous evening, using a coat hanger to strangle her.

So there are allegations of attempted murder, but they lead with the "incest" charge.

According to the arrest affidavit, the girl told police that the conflict began after the mother learned that she and a half-brother had begun to experiment with consensual sex. 

Here's where things get a slightly murky. Other reports have the girl's age as 16. Many US states have the age of consent as 16, and/or "Romeo and Juliet" laws that say someone the age of 19 is not committing a criminal act if they have consensual sex (with a nonrelative... perhaps a complete stranger) with a 16-year-old. Some sources I found say the age of consent in Nebraska is 16. Others say 17, with no exceptions for being close in age. If the 19-year-old violated the age of consent, how about sticking to a statutory rape charge, as long as that is standard in cases where they 16-year-old claims it was consensual?

The two had not grown up together and the girl had moved in with her mother about a year ago.

So this is likely a case of Genetic Sexual Attraction.

The girl ran away from home over the weekend, but was located in Cheyenne, Wyo., where she had been waiting for a bus to California. The girl told police her mother became aware that she was pregnant and they argued about it after she returned home. During the argument, the girl said, the mother told her sister to retrieve a coat hanger and strangled the girl from behind as she sat on a couch.

Premeditated.

The suspect later went to the police station and volunteered to provide a statement. He allegedly told police that he and the girl had started a relationship in January.

BIG MISTAKE!!! He should have heeded this advice.

He faces a sentence of one to 20 years imprisonment and a $25,000 fine, if convicted.

The mother of the girl has not been charged, police said, but the incident remains under investigation.

OUTRAGEOUS!!! Who is the danger to others?!?

Here is Ryan Murphy's report at kotanow.com, which gives the male's picture and name.

If Nebraska's age of the consent is 17 without exceptions, then an argument can be made that he should be charged with a crime for violating that. But law enforcement didn't do that. And they have actually gone on to prosecute the 16-year-old girl for "incest," the girl who was allegedly the victim of an attempted murder by her own mother! Well then who is the victim of the incest, according to law enforcement? This is so infuriating. All laws against consensual incest need to be removed. There is no good reason to have them.

UPDATE HERE.

See also:

Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory

Nebraska Still Prosecuting Consenting Adults

And to media outlets, consensual sex is more noteworthy than the attempted murder of a pregnant woman. The attempted murder should be prosecuted. Does arresting and prosecuting a victim's CONSENSUAL lover, who was NOT the attempted murderer, encourage or discrouge other victims from seeking help? Duh. Read what I'm talking about here.

Technology Making Connections

The blogger as My Dissolute Life, a blog I follow, writes about discovering Tinder, which I know has been around for a while. Tinder sounds like it is great for anyone looking for a hookup or casual sex or perhaps "more," whether they are unattached or in an open relationship.

I have the sense that it was designed by addiction researchers. It’s nearly impossible to put down, it’s incredibly compelling, and it’s brilliant in that it’s constantly stimulating your (my) reward centers and never communicating rejection.

If you’re not familiar with it, this is how it works:

Somehow, it interacts with your Facebook account to generate a never-ending stream of women (or men). It allows you to select up to six photos from your FB account to present on the app, as well as a small number of words (a few more than 140 characters, it seems). And then, the fun begins.

With each photo, you decide if you want to “like” or “reject” the candidate. You can look closely – read the text, if there is any, look at all the photos. Or, you can just decide instantly, on the basis of the “cover” photo. You can either swipe – right to “like,” left to “reject,” or you can tap the “X” or the heart.

That’s it. You do that, over and over, and then, the matchmaking starts.

Women (if you’re me) see your picture(s), and they decide whether to accept or reject you (me). If there’s mutual acceptance, you both get a message, and, 99% of the time (of course), it’s on the boy to initiate contact.

What’s brilliant about this is the way they handle rejection.

Click through to read more.

Whenever I hear a mention of Tinder, I think about what used to be called "Bang With Friends," but is now known as Down. Before I'd ever heard of BWF, and perhaps before it was available, I remember thinking that there had to be some way technology could let people who know each other on some level but have a very good reason to be cautious about making a move see if there is a mutual interest in a "protected" way. Down is one answer to that. For example, when it comes to consanguineous relationships, someone could indicate, secretly, that they want their cousin, among other people. Nobody will ever know, not even the cousin, unless the cousin also uses the app and marks the person as someone they want. And it isn't like the cousin could then say, "Eww! No way! You're a terrible person for having sexual thoughts!!!" Because the cousin will have done the same thing.


If you have experiences with these apps or others, tell us about it. The comments are always open.

Dear Abby Gets Letter About Conflicted Love for Aunt

Advice columnist Dear Abby ran a letter from a nephew (I'm assuming the writer is male, since the columnist does) who is with his blood aunt. It is the third letter in today's column.

LOVESICK TEEN IN THE U.K. wrote...

I am under a lot of stress, but the woman I am with doesn't know it. I am 17, and I have been sleeping with my 38-year-old aunty. She's married and has three children. She's my mum's sister. We've slept together seven times and we can't stop doing it. I think I'm in love with her. 

It is important to note that the age of consent in the UK is 16. Unless his aunt was acting as his guardian, this is not an age of consent issue. It may not even be a cheating issue, as for all we know her arrangement with her spouse allows for this. Again, this blog does not support cheating but we can't assume this is cheating as the letter does not say he's worried about the spouse finding out.
Dear Abby's response included...

By having an adulterous and incestuous affair with you -- her nephew and a minor -- your aunt is behaving like a sexual predator.

Not necessarily. Does Dear Abby condemn all polyamory or open relationships? Does she condemn all relationships between 17-year-olds and 38-year-olds where the age of consent is 16? Does she condemn all consanguineous relationships? If she does, on what basis? We aren't told.

If he doesn't want to continue, he shouldn't, and if she is forcing herself on him, that is assault. There are, however, many other people in these situations who are happy, and should not be broadbrushed as being wrong or abused. I always like to get comments, but I would especially like to hear from anyone who has been with their aunt.