When There Are Four First Ladies

Peter Ndoria wrote had something published about a month ago under the title "Wired for Polygamy." It appears to be in response to South African President Jacob Zuma marrying his fourth wife.

In the tight strictures of a political career in a modern country, few would dare come out and endorse a practice that others consider ‘primitive’, ‘out-dated’ and ‘unfaithful’.

Yet if one were to bear in mind the number of politicians caught in illicit affairs, the list would be mind-boggling. From the infamous Profumo Affair that almost brought down the British government in 1963 to JF Kennedy’s rumoured liaisons with Marylyn Monroe and big names like Arnold Schwarzenegger, former British Prime Minister John Major, 2004 American Presidential running mate John Edwards, not forgetting President Bill Clinton, it is a randy male world.

Could it, perhaps, be that man was not designed to be monogamous?

As I always say, monogamy does work for some. When it comes to law and how we handle marriage as a community, whether or not polygamy or monogamy is "natural" is irrelevant. We have lives filled with things that aren't natural. Let consenting adults have the relationships and marriages they want, including monogamous and various forms of polygamous. That includes women marrying multiple men, or multiple women, or both.

Edwin, a divorcee in his early 40s, believes that what we have now is ‘monogamy plagued by wanton acts of adultery’, quoting the many incidences that are the fodder of radio talk shows — married women going on and on about their detached absentee husbands and how that gap has since been filled by ‘toy boys’ and, conversely, men recounting their escapades with their ‘clandes’, away from their ‘nagging’ spouses.

In an individualistic world where divorce is easier to get, Edwin contends that a man who has married two or three times is no different from his ancestor who had three wives. This practice of having just one mate at a time or ‘serial monogamy’, where you marry, divorce and remarry is a more common façade.

Polygyny in a time and place where women have no right or fewer rights than men is not the same thing as polygyny entered into by women who have equality under the law and real choices. I do think with full marriage equality as part of gender equality, any form of ethical nonmonogamy is a better way of handling life than cheating.

Solidarity For...

...Those Who Aren’t Just Like White Heteromono Gender-Conforming Vanilla Models

Fannie writes on the “The Limits of ‘We're Just Like You’” about the limits of trying to gain the same-gender freedom to marry by claiming to be just like what is portrayed as the average majority conformist.

Over Pride Weekend, some friends posted a graphic on Facebook that was supposed to emphasize how similar gay people are to heterosexuals. Featuring two white, thin, gender-conforming, well-dressed men seated on a couch, in scary font, it read: "The Gay Agenda: They Pay Their Bills! They Make Dinner! They Go To Work!"

Yeah, I find it funny because it plays on that always-over-the-top meme about The Homosexual Agenda (dun dun DUN!). Contrary to some anti-LGBT activists' fantasy of "the homosexual lifestyle" being a never-ending, hedonistic party of poppers, promiscuity, go-go boys, and anal sex, many LGBT lives are actually quite mundane.

Yes, there are gay and lesbian couples who blend quite nicely into the middle-class suburban, churchgoing, PTA/soccer mom set. But there are those who don’t fit that mold, and they should not be excluded or ostracized.

At the same time, notice the image. Two white, thin, gender-conforming, well-dressed men being "boring" together. I realize that is the image that must sometimes be presented in the US in order for LGBT people to prove that we are "just like everyone else" and therefore deserving of respect and equality under our legal system.

However, it remains a message of exclusion.

Fannie is right.

Is "People Like Us" For People Like Us?

Mary Pols reviews the feature movie "People Like Us" at time.com...

inShare

DreamWorks Distribution

The glossily photographed family drama People Like Us is not without appeal, but it has a major construction flaw. It’s dramatic arc is predicated on the problem of accidental incestuous attraction. Egads.

Well hey, we can't have movies based on real life issues, right? Ms. Pols, are you really against the idea of adults being attracted to each other, or are you just pretending like it to play to the prejudice of some of your readers?

You know nothing will actually happen because this is a Disney movie, not a dreamy art film (like say Rebecca Miller’s The Ballad of Jack and Rose) but the whole movie marches toward the horrible moment when one of two newly acquainted half siblings, the more sympathetic one, will make a pass at the other and be rebuffed. It’s hideously compelling, like being in the room when one woman asks a woman who isn’t pregnant when she’s due, except that exchange is typically over in 30 spectacularly awful seconds and this one lasts two hours.

Uh, half siblings have been brought together through Genetic Sexual Attraction and have had healthy, beautiful, full relationships together.

Essentially this is the same set up as the stereotypical romantic comedy where one party withholds a secret while the clueless one gives away his or her heart—only the looming revelation is not “I’m the hotel maid/your business rival/journalist who writing a hit piece on you” but “uh, I’m your brother so maybe let’s not kiss.” They’re relying on the misunderstanding for drama, but because they don’t want anything to seem too weird, they’ve given Sam a girlfriend (Olivia Wilde) who is across the country for most of the movie. She’s the audience’s reassurance that however weird it starts to seem with Sam and Frankie, this isn’t that kind film. 

C'mon, Hollywood... it is time for a real and unflinching major motion picture with GSA in which the lovers have a happy ending together after fending off the confusion and haters.

If you go see "People Like Us," please share what you think, won't you?

Another Discussion on Legalizing Polygamy

Back in May, Simmering Frog asked at sodahead.com "Should polygamy be legalized in the United States if all parties involved agree to get married?" The answer, of course, is yes. An adult should be free to marry any consenting adults.
One negative response was this one...

Absolutely not. Such a policy will likely start a civil war between the left-out men and the harem gatherers.

That's ridiculous. In most states, people can already have multiple lovers and live-ins; they just can't marry them. Have we seen a civil war as a result? Also, full marriage equality means women can also marry multiple men, or multiple women, or both men and women. Even if polygyny happens more than other forms of polygamy, it will won't happen enough to leave hordes of unpartnered men

JDLogan is an ally...

If the government is going to recognize the committed relationships of some consenting adults, they need to recognized all committed relationships of consenting adults, it's called equal protection under the law.


So many people take a "my way or the highway" attitude toward adult relationships, but I tell you, if your relationship is so weak that you need others to live their lives the way you live yours to give credence to your way of life, maybe you should work harder at your life and stay out of others.

The discussion goes on and on. Many allies left comments, and the comments from those prejudiced against the polygamous freedom to marry, if they gave an explanation, were the typical Discredited Arguments.

The more these topics are raised, the better, because more people will see that there is no good reason to deny full marriage equality.

The Evolving of an Ally

Chandrasekar Ramesh, Guest Columnist for thedartmouth.com, wrote about "Incestuous Myths."

You support gay marriage, so you must be gay, right? A person asking this question would be laughed out of most conversations. Nonetheless, I’ve often been asked a very similar question whenever I discuss another facet of marriage equality — incest. Even jokingly, if I take a devil’s advocate position of legalizing incest, the conversation becomes hushed, and people begin wondering if I’m dating my cousin. However, incest is a serious issue, and the most commonly cited reason for banning incestuous marriages — that children born to incestuous parents have a significantly increased risk of genetic mutations — does not hold up to empirical scrutiny.

Ramesh dismantles some of the typical Discredited Arguments.

We Get Letters that Shed Light on News Items

You may recall my coverage of a news item from earlier this year that was lacking some important information. A 36-year-old man was "accused of fathering a child with a teenage relative in 2010 received a 10-year prison sentence..." As it turns out, "accused" was a word used on purpose for the article. As I noted, the charges were "incest" not rape.

These comments were left by "Anonymous." I have edited them to clean up typing errors.

I was 16. No DNA test was shown or handed out to me or my father. We have asked on and on. They of course said yes but, they made an excuse not to. I have never seen it, nether has he. The judge only took DCS's side. They took proof from another teen (used to be friend). She ran her mouth saying lies and then bam !!!!!!!!! This s--- happens.

I don't remember by the way if we did or not, I was still going through hell and back.... and doing things I shouldn't have done... I still love my father, that will never change! And you are the only one that caught my eye; you're not dogging him. Thank you very much. If we did I'm going to deny I was a victim, period. He was never sexual towards me, ever!

Anonymous, feel free to leave comments and to contact me via email or Facebook.

Her comments greatly clarify the situation. The convicted man is her father. She was 16. The age of consent in Indiana is generally 16, though 16 and 17-year-olds can't legally consent to sex with a guardian. We have a troubled man (war veteran with PTSD and alcohol abuse) and a troubled teenager. She doesn't even know if they had sex, so she doesn't feel like a victim; he hadn't previously behaved in an inappropriate manner towards her. That the report says he was "accused" of fathering a child with her, not proven to have done so, and her comments about not being given proof of that indicate to me that he did not get her pregnant. Rather, someone else did and it is entirely possible her father never had sex with her. How credible, really, was the witness? Do we have another example of someone taking a deal even though they aren't guilty because the alternative is too much of a risk?

Is this a good use of law enforcement and correctional resources? There are 16-year-olds out there who are being traumatized by their rapist fathers and stepfathers who repeatedly rape them. That's not what happened here. It's a very sad situation.

Straight, Or Not, Into Compton

This summary is not available. Please click here to view the post.

We Get Good Letters

Anonymous left a comment...

I must say I'm a guy that has been separated from my three half-sisters due to divorce when I was really little, and never grew up with them. So in the past couple years of being reunited with them, I've found a major emotional and physical attraction to them. I have slept with the oldest one on more than a few occasions consensually. Her and I'd even talk about moving to a country where marrying siblings was legal.


At any rate, I've never understood why people have to use the one-and-only "genetic code and birth" excuse when it comes to the justification of having incest being illegal. Saying that, when there's plenty of preventive measures to not have offspring is just downright unobservant.


We've all grown up in different circumstances and households. I feel those who haven't had the benefits of growing up in a full household, shouldn't be restricted from their feelings or disgraced because of it. The way I see incest in my case, it's not only the missing Westermarck effect, it's all the years of missed support and love (me being the one and only older brother).


Lastly, I also wish I didn't have these feelings sometimes, but I do. It is disheartening because of society, and also something of which you doubt the family would be supportive in.

Anonymous appears to be experiencing Genetic Sexual Attraction. Notice that the problem cited involve dealing with disapproval from others. Why should prejudice and bigotry interfere in consensual relationships?

Questions About Polyamory

Over at straightdope.com, poly-curious Illuminatiprimus started a discussion about polyamory by asking a bunch of questions.

hogarth answered...

I think the answer to most of those is "it depends".

I'd highly recommend the documentary "When Two Won't Do" -- it takes an unvarnished look at a variety of polyamorous relationships, including that of the filmmakers.

Stauderhorse answered the questions...

Prison Time in Genetic Sexual Attraction Case

Updating this earlier case, a mother experiencing Genetic Sexual Attraction with her son has been sentenced to prison. Kerana Todorov reports for napavalleyregister.com...

Mistie Atkinson, 32, pleaded no contest Tuesday in Napa Superior Court to incest and other charges related to her teenage Napa son.

"Incest" should not be a crime. She wasn't even a guardian. What is a crime and what should have been the charge was statutory rape. He was under the age of consent in California. In other states with 16 as the age of consent, this shouldn't be a crime.

The woman convicted of incest with her 16-year-old biological son was sentenced Wednesday in Napa County Superior Court to more than four years in state prison.

Mistie Rebecca Atkinson, 32, of Lake County, received four years, eight months in state prison under a plea agreement reached in May. Atkinson pleaded no contest to incest, oral copulation, lewd contact with a minor and distribution of lewd material to a minor.

 I'm wondering how the boy is doing. Some his age would be very traumatized by this. Others, not so much. Still, age of consent laws are there and the line is drawn.

In a hand-written letter to the court, Atkinson pleaded for leniency, saying she never intended to become intimate with her biological son.

“I don’t feel like I should have the charge of incest because there is something called genetic attraction that is a very powerful (phenomenon) that happens to 50 (percent) of people becoming reunited with a long-lost relative,” she wrote in her letter to the judge.

Genetic Sexual Attraction should not excuse statutory rape. However, like I've written before, if she has never done anything like this before then there is little reason to believe she will prey on others.

In February, Ukiah police met with the boy’s grandmother and other relatives who alleged Atkinson was having an incestuous relationship with the son. The boy, who was described as “out of control” by police, was staying with a relative in Ukiah until he could be placed in a group home, according to court documents.

The father had sent the boy to Ukiah partly in an effort to separate him from his biological mother, authorities reported in Atkinson’s probation report.

The grandmother alleged the boy was sneaking out of his relative’s house to meet with Atkinson in spite of a restraining order barring the woman from contacting the boy, authorities said in the court filing.

If you do the math, she probably didn't have the best adolescence either. Sad. I hope all involved get their problems worked out, and if, as with an infamous schoolteacher, this boy ends up deciding as a man he wants to be with her, I hope the law will not interfere.

Who Is Selfish?

From a poly blogger who thinks monogamy can be right for someone, but that polyamory would be embraced by most people if they understood what it really is...

It doesn’t make me a bigot to ask people to call into question things they have taken as the standard model and only option for relationships. If someone’s never heard of anything except for monogamy as a valid life choice, then I obviously can’t expect them to understand. But if someone comes at me and calls me absurd and cruel and selfish and egocentric, why are they not the bigot? Why am I the one who, when defending how I live and love as a valid and rational life choice, becomes the bigot? Because I use harsh language and come back with equally as insulting opinion? Why is calling into question the problems with the standard paradigm a jab? Because it’s how most people live and I’m insulting most people? But it’s okay for someone to say that to me? The majority can insult the minority, but the minority can’t stand up for themselves by doing exactly the same thing? 

Further...

People should always question paradigms, and explore all avenues (this does not apply only to relationships, but to everything), and if they ultimately arrive at monogamy as the best option, then they should embrace it (and embracing it does not mean every other way is invalid).

I look forward to the day when polyamory is widely understood and polyamorists do not have to defend themselves from charges of being selfish and egocentric for simply loving more than one person. As the blogger notes, both polyamorists and monogamists can be selfish or unselfish. Selfish people are bad for any relationship.

A Quote From the Closet

One of the reasons this blog exists is to speed progress so that no adult will have to hide their identity, sexual orientation, or love for other adults. Nobody should have to live in the closet out of fear of prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Here's quote from a woman who is in a consanguinamorous relationship with her father. She is a participant at Kindred Spirits forum.

I've never told anyone about our relationship. There are times when I wish I could be more open about it. It feels like people never get to know the real me, because I can't let them into this huge part of me.

People have been enduring this kind of isolation for so long. Why? Why should adults still have to hide? If someone can't be open with you about who they are and who they love, they can't have a real, close friendship with you. If your own family members can't tell you because you'll reject them, or even rat them out to be prosecuted, they are unfairly imprisoned emotionally.


Won't you please support your family, friends, classmates, coworkers, and neighbors who are going through the struggle for freedom and equal rights?