Louis C. Hochman reports at NJ.com...
State Assembly Republican Leader Jon Bramnick says he expects the only reason incest is apparently legal in New Jersey is "it's so absurd and so offensive that no one would expect to have it" here.
Right. So what about most of the other states, then? And to be clear, we're talking about CONSENTING ADULTS, not assaulting minors or abuse of any kind.
"This concept is totally offensive," he said. "I'm sure there's going to be some discussion in the legislature. We can't tolerate those kinds of marriages."
Uh, New Jersey doesn't marry first-degree relatives. They should, but they don't. This is only about being able to have consensual sex in privacy without some uninvited, scowling political grandstander trying to get in the middle... so to speak.
"I'm convinced there's going to be some discussion," Bramnick said. "Any time you learn a father and daughter plan to get married, that has to be unacceptable. It would appear to be against anything that's acceptable in New Jersey."He's clearly uninformed about the nuances of the laws of his own state and with current news. That's rather sad for someone who is supposed to be a legislative leader. And as the article noted, the woman in the interview wasn't seeking a paper from the state; she just wants to be left alone to have her relationship.
Bramnick said there are certain things "just so obviously wrong that legislators might never have thought of them."Notice he doesn't explain exactly what is wrong with consenting adults having sex in private without having to fear criminal prosecution. That's OK. Nobody else seems to be able to, either.
Sexual relationships among adult relatives weren't always legal in New Jersey. Incest was outlawed in New Jersey until 1979, when the state enacted a new criminal code that left a section planned for incest blank, according to Peter Gilbreth, a Morristown-based attorney who handles both criminal and family cases.
Under the old statute, incest was a crime that carried a maximum penalty of 15 years in state prison, Gilbreth said.
Interesting. Can you imagine sending someone to prison for fifteen years for having sex with another adult? Again, please note that assault, child molestation, etc., which is an entirely different matter than what we're talking about, has always been illegal, as it should remain.
I noticed some of the comments left at the website when I read the article.
If they don't ban incest all the incest love couples will flock here. Now that this story is being publicized they will learn NJ is a safe place to come.I guarantee you they are already there, honey. Has the state fallen apart in all of these years? Well, maybe, but not as result of people loving each other.
Assemblyman Bramnick. Instead of worrying about this one 18 y/o and whether she wants to live in an incestuous realtionship with her father why don't you turn your attention to what is going on in the family courts where tens of thousands of good loving parents are being denied their right to a relationship with their children. Stop focusing on BS and start focusing what is happening in our family courts.No, he wants to BREAK UP families.
Anybody in New Jersey who is worried that there might be consanguinamorous relationships in the state without a new, wasteful law: THEY ARE ALREADY THERE. Can you point to any problems in the state that are a direct result of letting consenting adults love each other how they wish? No, you can't. There are great citizens, great neighbors, great workers, who are living in New Jersey right now who appear to be loving spouses in a great marriage, raising healthy, bright children, but what most people around them might not know is that they are closely related, and thus their marriage isn't recognized by the state. Why would anyone want to waste taxpayer resources turning them into criminals and tearing apart their home? What a cruel, vicious thought. It's sad that there needs to be advice like this.
Instead, New Jersey lawmakers should take the lead and institute full marriage equality. Save taxpayer resources for preventing and prosecuting abuse, not love.
![Non-Monogamy Diagram [I:FV]](http://www.obsidianfields.com/lj/nonmonogamy2.5.1.gif){kind=link}
There is no need for New Jersey to punish adults for consensual incest. There is no need for ANY STATE to punish adults for consensual incest. The government does not belong in the bedroom, not mine, not anyones!
ReplyDelete-Liz Smith - blond_one89@ymail.com
The overwhelming majority of human beings on planet earth are instinctively opposed to incest in any form. Therefore there are laws and social taboos that forbid it. Modern western legal systems are complex however. Sometimes when efforts are made to reform or simplify legislation, things get left out by accident. This is what has happened in New Jersey. The mistake will be corrected.
ReplyDeleteAssuming those who don't like the thought of such behavior are such a large majority, that still does not justify taking away fundamental rights like freedom of association. Anyone who doesn't like it doesn't have to do it.
DeleteGood work. I did not find any more news about the attempt by a NJ woman Mary Angelini to make ACI illegal again, after she failed to be re-elected. The above article mentions a guy called Bramnick, who according to wikipedia is Jewish!!
ReplyDeleteNote 13 says '"Assemblyman O'Bramnick? - The Auditor". NJ Advance Media for NJ.com. April 12, 2015. Retrieved September 12, 2015. "'I need an Irish name if I run statewide,' said Bramnick, who's Jewish."
Well that seems to be fairly standard operating procedure for many who try to hide their religious biases in order to get elected. But the nerve of this guy acting like he never heard of Abraham and Sarah, that many Jews practice obligatory consanguineous marriages in the form of 'Levirate' marriage ( Levirate marriage is a type of marriage in which the brother of a deceased man is obliged to marry his brother's widow, and the widow is obliged to marry her deceased husband's brother) not to mention that Israel (שמע ישראל ה' אלוהינו ה' אחד")does not make adult consensual incest a crime, and that makes sense because the Patriarch and Matriarch of Israel were a married brother and sister couple called Abraham and Sarah. It would be disrespectful to Abraham and Sarah, quite likely if modern Israel jailed CIAO people. So if Bramnick is Jewish, he should be supporting the legalization of CIAO marriage in New Jersey, not pretending to be a bigotted goyim. After all, it is not very far from incestophobia to anti-semitism. And he, a lawyer with a Pol Sci degree, ought to be standing up for oppressed minority groups, fighting for justice for them, not trying to have CIAO people jailed. There should be a petition to get CIAO marriage legalised in NJ, similar perhaps to the one targeted at the French Minister of Justice. Is there one already in the making?
Please check out this article about Luxembourg. I do not like what is happening. What they are doing is wrong, they are supposed to be allowing these couples to marry, not plan to re-criminalize them. By the way, this article is in French, so you might need to translate it.
ReplyDeletehttps://5minutes.rtl.lu/actu/luxembourg/a/1690845.html
Hi there, Anonymous. This is not a scam. Since that article is made in 2021, I checked the 2021 penal code of Luxembourg in French and it says that incest is against the law only if there is molestation or sexual assault. Consensual relations between relatives who are adults is still legal.
ReplyDelete