Wednesday, February 1, 2017

New Zealand Still Prosecuting Consenting Adults

A couple this blog last covered in 2012 were back in the criminal system and back in the courts in New Zealand.

Let's go back to a report at from September 2016...
A father and daughter pleaded guilty to incest when they appeared in the Dunedin District Court this afternoon.
Judge Kevin Phillips convicted them and remanded them on bail, with conditions prohibiting communication between the pair, for sentence in November.
This is outrageous. They have a consensual relationship, initiated through Genetic Sexual Attraction, and there is no reason to deny them communication, contact, or their freedom.
The pair - aged 37 and 23 - have previously been convicted of incest, after the woman gave birth to a child in 2011.
Isn't it obvious that they are in love? Why interfere?

The daughter was born after the man entered into a sexual relationship with his foster mother when he was only 13 and she was 30.
The age of consent in New Zealand is 16. "Entered into a sexual a relationship" is appropriate phrasing for the current relationship between the father and his genetic daughter, not for what the foster mother did to him when he was 13.
He had little to do with his daughter during her upbringing, but a sexual relationship between them started shortly after they were reunited in 2010.
She was 16 at the time.
She was of age, and he did not groom her because he didn't raise her.

They were both sentenced to supervision for the first conviction in 2012 with the father also receiving a sentence of community work.
In many places, people are thrown into prison for decades. But it shouldn't be a criminal matter in the first place.

Here's a report from the other day (January 25, 2017) from Timothy Brown at
A Dunedin father and daughter have been ordered to stay away from each other for two years after being sentenced for incest for the second time.
New Zealand really needs full marriage equality and relationship rights for all.
The pair - aged 37 and 23 - were last year convicted of incest for the second time after the discovery of the pair's second child.
As it turns out, the second child died of SIDS, which also kills children whose parents aren't consanguineous. None of this coverage mentions any other problems with the two children, which implies the children have otherwise been healthy, contrary to the myth that most of these relationships create disabled or diseased children.
At this morning's sentencing, the father was sentenced to six months community detention and two years' intensive supervision. The daughter was sentenced to two years of intensive supervision.
The pair are not to associate during that time and the father is not come within 100km of Dunedin, and reside elsewhere in the South Island.
Judge Kevin Phillips said it was "very serious repeat offending which strikes at the heart of what the community would consider right and proper conduct".
Sex between consenting adults who love each other isn't right and proper? I would hope a judge would know the difference between consent and nonconsent.
The offending came to light after police attended a domestic disturbance at the pair's home in 2013 and found an infant at the residence which they suspected was fathered by the defendant.
Why did it take three years to get to the end of the case (which shouldn't have been brought to a court in the first place?) Perhaps they were given a chance to break up and they didn't? It is interesting that we are not given any indication of what the domestic disturbance was. For all we know it was just a way for someone to rat them out; calling the police to report a disturbance that never took place. If, however, one of them is abusing the other or someone else, that should be a criminal matter, not that adults are having sex. But we don't hear of any charges of abuse. Suspicious.

Rachel Smalley decided to pontificate on this matter at the same website...
You may have read about the incredibly grim situation that's emerged in Dunedin.
What's grim is that consenting adults aren't left alone to have their relationships.
My question is: why isn't this being dealt with through the mental health system?
If either one of them has mental illness or trouble coping with life, they should get therapy. However, a sexual relationship between adults isn't itself an indication of mental illness. It is normal and natural for most adults to have sex.
Instead, the father has been sentenced to six months' community detention and two years' intensive supervision. The daughter has also been sentenced to two years of intensive supervision. The two can't go near each other for the two years. The daughter has been ordered not to leave Dunedin. The father isn't allowed to travel within 100km of the city.

And the daughter will undergo counselling too.
However, the father's case is being dealt with as a criminal case. So what happens after two years of enforced separation and supervision?
Hopefully, the laws will be better by then or they move to some place that doesn't punish people for having a sex life, if they still want to be together. Anyone in a relationship like this should protect themselves.
He must have experienced a troubled childhood to find himself in foster care in the first place and, once there, was sexually abused by his foster mother.
And now he's been abused at least twice by his own government!!!
Now, he's received another sentence - community detention. So how will that reprogramme him, or rehabilitate them?
He doesn't need rehabilitation or reprogramming or reeducation or any nonsense if all he's done is loved another adult!

It's interesting there are no quotes in these reports from other family members, friends, neighbors, social workers, arresting officers, mental health or relationship experts. Nobody contacted was willing to say bad things about either of these lovers?

It should be clear to everyone that they want to be together. They've had children together. They have endured prosecution and have gotten back together. How about you stop wasting public resources to force your own prejudices other other people?
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  1. This is outrageous! These 2 have done nothing wrong. Their relationship doesnt effect anyone. All they have done is love each other. And yet they are abused by their government.

  2. What is really upsetting is their government wont even allow them to be in contact with each other. They have been seperated for years and now the father and daughter cant even communicate. What about visiting or contacting the child. That poor family has been torn apart just because 2 people loved each other.

  3. What makes me angry is not the actions of the state, which are predictable, but the failure of this couple to avoid coming under scrutiny in the first place.

    They were caught once already. The very last thing they should have been doing is fussing and fighting so much that the cops get called to their house, or worse yet one of them calling the cops directly.

    Forbidden relationships between consenting adults require secrecy. Drawing the attention of the police is the exact opposite of maintaining that secrecy.

    They also should not be having more kids together because a child is living proof of a sexual relationship.

    Freedom requires eternal vigilance. These two acted like fools, and now the government is all up in their business....again!

  4. This story is repeated again and again around the world, with slight variations.If it were a gay couple being broken up and arrested, the BBC and Stephen Fry would be there immediately making a documentary, interrogating politicians, making them seem like idiots and getting the whole world to laugh at them.
    The way things are, all I could do was sent a pathetic letter to the NZ Herald to complain, but of course, it was not published. Just for the record, here is what I said.

    "NZ's laws against CIAO (Consensual Incestuous Adult Oriented) relationships are positively antediluvian. Seven of the nine nuclear states have no laws against it 11 out of 28 EU countries have no laws against it, including France, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Italy, all UK's near neighbours. In the USA, CIAO is legal in New Jersey and Rhode Island. Apparently PM English changed his mind on gay marriage and has recently said "I'd probably vote differently now on the gay marriage issue, I don't think that gay marriage is a threat to anyone else's marriage." If the was his main objection to gay marriage, why wouldn't he support ACI too since ACI is not a threat to anyone's marriage. CIAO people have the same rights to family and happiness as everyone else, and to deny them equal treatment and to discriminate against them the same way gay people were discriminated against is a far greater sin against them than they are accused of committing against anyone else. The Australian Royal Commission into Human Relations recommend there should be no crime of incest in Australia, and the law has not business interfering in CIAO people's privacy."

    1. Beciase being gay is a sexual ordination not a act. Incest is a act. Two gay brothers can be having sex and that is incest. It has nothing to do with being gay. And yes these two should be charged for having a child that they knew would have defects. A gay couple is not the same thing. Different situations. Gay couples aren't popping out defective babies.

    2. Like being gay, GSA is a normal and natural thing. Also, some people are consanguinamorous in orientation,

      The report does not day the children had birth defects. Most children born to such situations don't. So you think all parents with children born with birth defects should be criminally prosecuted?


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