Secretly and Happily Married

We have another exclusive interview to bring you. 

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. Most can’t even be out of the closet or they’ll face prosecution under absurd incest laws, which, instead of focusing on abuse, also target consensual relationships.

The man interviewed below should be free to legally marry his spouse, or simply be together without having to hide, yet they can’t. Prejudice can be deadly. They are consenting adults; why should they have been denied their rights? In much of the world, they could be criminally prosecuted for loving each other this way, and might be persecuted severely in addition.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what he has to say about the love they share. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic, but whatever your reaction, should lovers like these be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

Also please note that someone you love, respect, and admire could be in a similar relationship right now. Should they be attacked and denied rights because of the "incest" label? 

Note: This is a "David" I have not interviewed before.

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FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourself.

David: My name is David. I'm a divorced father in my forties to a very lovely daughter. I have a home-based business as a contractor for which I oversee computer systems such as phones, fire suppression, air conditioning, lighting, etc., all via the Internet. There are certain companies that, despite having a qualified staff on site, sometimes need me to quietly look in when no one is looking. That's the only way I can say it without getting into trouble. 

I'm in good shape and healthy as my job has me sitting lots. I keep in shape by walking lots and hiking in the mountains when possible. I love cooking and I love a good cup of tea. What's interesting is how my daughter has followed in my footsteps. She is a very confident woman, working towards her RN. When she was in high school, she started volunteering at our local hospital, helping the unit clerks, working at the information booth, cleaning and just being a kind voice and smile to patients and their families. I am so proud of her and her drive. She does have a touch of OCD, a strong focus. This has helped her countless times, and helped me as well.

FME: Are you married or have you ever been legally and/or ceremonially married?

We are married to each other, but no one else was involved, for obvious reasons. We avoided restrictions by not letting anyone else know. What is in our hearts is all that matters to us now. 

There was a small ceremony just between the two of us. We had gone hiking for four days to a spot very private and quiet; we've been there before. I tried to be as romantic as possible. When she was facing away from me, I dropped to one knee and waited for her to turn around. 

When she did, she found me there holding a small box with a necklace holding two hearts entwined. I told her how much she meant to me, how beautiful she was, how happy she always makes me and would she please do me the honor of becoming my wife. For a minute, she couldn't move, but then the there was the happiness in her face and a laughing "Yes!" I didn't have anything prepared, but said that I would love, honor, cherish, and protect her to the end of my days. I promised to go to war for her if needed. She sort of repeated what I said while giggling in excitement. Her joy is very infectious to me. 

FME: How would you describe your genders? How would you describe your sexual orientation... are you heterosexual, bisexual, or…?

We are both heterosexual and have no interests in anyone else. I've dated once or twice, but both times ended with unnecessary drama. She has never had an interest in anyone else either.

FME: You currently live with...?

It's just the two of us in a small-to-mid-sized house. It's perfect for us both.

FME: You are in a sexual relationship with your biological daughter?

We have had a committed, beautiful, and very intimate sexual relationship with each other for years now.

FME: What was your childhood like? What was family life like? Were alternative lifestyles/sex discussed in your family, and if so, how? Can you describe your sexual awakening?

I had a happy childhood. Mom and Dad were both stable people, both worked very hard and always made time for myself and my older sister. There was always laughter around the house and table as I remember. I vaguely remember Dad taking me out for supper so that Mom and my sister could have some girl time. I didn't know at that time, but Mom was teaching my sis about her body, her periods, boys, things usually shared just between girls. A couple of years later, Fad and I had the talk as well, although by then I had discovered, through a friend, a copy of Penthouse magazine. That would have been my sexual awakening. 

My first partner would eventually become my fist wife, the mother of our daughter. We’re divorced. I won't go into details. It was a tough time and I had sole custody of my girl, and at that point I was clueless as to being a father to a girl.

There are a couple of moments that will stay with me forever and I believe they contributed to us becoming far more than just father and daughter. These moments all involved the building of trust. 

When she got her first period, she was very embarrassed about this. I did the only thing I could. I called my sister and asked her to help out. Soon my daughter and sister were giggling away on the phone in my daughter’s room. I have no idea what was discussed, but I soon had a shopping list for various feminine products to buy. Through this, my daughter was watching me and my showing her how I respected her clearly had an effect on her. When puberty started, our family doctor suggested getting her started on the pill, not as a birth control but as a way to regulate her periods and to control acne. it worked. Again she was watching me treat her as a young lady, being the good and almost, dare I say it, "cool dad". As she started to develop, she approached me about going shopping for bras and underwear. I suggested that yes, I would be happy to go but she should take one of her friends as well. Suggesting that friend was very helpful. 

FME: How did sexual affection become a part of the relationship between you?

I would like to state that in no way have I groomed or forced her. This was a very gradual process for us both. 

She grew into a beautiful a woman. She and I were sitting on the couch, watching TV. Her hand was holding mine. This is where it started down the physical road. Wandering hands. Careful exploration of each other. Very intimate, very careful. Still spontaneous but certainly showing an interest in each other. I mentioned before how she can get very focused. This was happening now. 

Our inhibitions were dropping. She asked me one evening if we could "go all the way". I suggested that we think very hard about such a decision. I was freaking out a bit at this thought. We had become a pair of room mates in the house, almost friends with benefits at this point. I suggested we take an evening a week or so away and that would give us time to think about what could possibly or possibly not happen. Two weeks later on a Friday, the date where the decision would happen, she gave me a hug and kiss and whispered in my ear how she was looking forward to that night. 

FME: Can you describe your feelings at the time?

I knew this was going to happen. I was nervous and excited. I was concerned about getting found out. I set up candles in my bedroom to help set a romantic mood. I prepared some food for supper. I didn't get much work done that day. I was clearly preoccupied. We shared supper but didn't talk much. We were both thinking way too much about this. I was actually scared. So was she. She went to her room to get changed and I went to mine and lit all the candles. She was nervous, as was I as we got into bed together. I felt like a teenager. We were very quiet as we proceeded. It was truly lovely though. This was her first time. That was beyond words for both of us. 

When we finished, I felt total elation, total joy, and at the same time very afraid that I had taken from her something so pure. I was terrified that this moment would be when her birth control wouldn't work. We shared a shower then I asked her to spend the night together. I didn't get much sleep but she slept so soundly and quiet. I actually watched her sleep.

The next morning, we both woke up together, slowly, and didn't say much while lying in bed. I asked her if I had hurt her. Were there any regrets? Should we stop? Do I have to apologize and never speak of this again? We had a good talk in whispers and both came to the conclusion that what we had done was beautiful, she did not feel violated in any way and I had not hurt her. She claimed that it was very romantic and relaxed and that she felt safe. We made love again. It was perfect.

FME: Before this had you ever thought this would be possible or enjoyable; did you have any opinion one way or the other about close relatives or family members being together?

I truly had no idea that this could have happened between us. I did not expect this to even happen to us. We were just father and daughter living together, I was doing my best as a father. I was overwhelmed at how enjoyable it was to be with her physically, despite the age difference. She has always agreed with me on this point.

I don't believe that back then I ever had an opinion on close family encounters. Now my opinions have greatly changed. I do not see any issues at all of family love, so long as it is consensual, and age appropriate, it is a beautiful form of expression, and not just physically. Honestly, I never had thoughts about my sister or mother, although I do view them both as beautiful women.

FME: How do you describe the lovemaking now?

The lovemaking has been very natural, very erotic, and incredibly beautiful. It's always going to be taboo, but we don't view that in a negative or dark way. It is very much the best sex we have ever experienced. We are very, very open with each other. No secrets at all and we talk about everything. I appreciate this more and more, because all I wanted was that trust that all girls would hope to have regarding their fathers. I know that my daughter trusts me implicitly, and I trust her equally so. This is what made it easy for her to ask me to give her a baby, and for me to ask her for her hand in marriage. We understand the issues and concerns involved in such events happening and we have approached these with great care and discretion.

FME: Describe your relationship now. This is a marriage?

We married in secret, as I said, so we are husband and wife. It’s a secret between us alone. In other words, a discreet union with beautiful, and what we feel are very healthy, results so far. We don't make love every day. We find once or twice a week is what works for us both. Although, occasionally, we have spent entire days in bed, celebrating such joy again and again. We are still father and daughter to the world, but in our quiet home, it is so much more. To the unknowing world, they see me as the stay at home dad with a good job who keeps the house in order and a daughter who is excelling at her studies at university. We are definitely lovers. We feel that we are inseparable at this point, having been married and our immediate plans include having a baby together.

FME: Do you literally sleep together, or what are the sleeping arrangements? 

After our relationship became intimate, we would sleep in the same bed. We had it arranged that we would spend the night together only after sex. It wasn't nightly or such. She still has her room just in case but we noticed that after a year or so, it was just easier and enjoyable for her to share my bed, now our bed. Since marriage, we have shared our bed now fully.

FME: Does anyone in your life know the full, true nature of your relationship and how did they find out? How have they reacted? What kind of steps, if any, have you had to take to keep your privacy?

She went for her yearly check up with our family doctor, someone we have known since my daughter was born. She came home really scared, saying that the doctor asked her some very personal questions about whether or not I was forcing myself on her or abusing her. We both went back for a meeting just between the three of us. We both confessed that yes, we had become more than dad and daughter, but there was in no way any forcing or coercion. My daughter confessed that we had discussed having a baby together. I was a very concerned in my request that the authorities not get involved and what we were doing was beautiful and harmed no one. 

We were astonished when the doctor said that this does happen more than anyone will admit, and that pregnancies between family members do happen. The discussion turned to her warning us of such relationships, especially getting found out, and the dangers of pregnancies between family. The doctor was direct in saying that she couldn't stop us, but hopefully she could minimize and potential problems going forward. She was willing to assist us with the pregnancy, including tests for both of us regarding any genetic issues or family histories involving cancer, or any hereditary issues. My ex wife's family has a history with heart attacks, but my daughter seems to be healthy and if she keeps that there should be very little chance of that affecting her. That was a relief. As we ended the meeting, I asked her how she knew. Her reply was "I've seen the way you both look at each other. It's unusual, but you're in love."

FME: Having to hide the full nature of your relationship from some people can be a disadvantage. Can you describe how that has been?

We've been very careful and we always talk about that when necessary. She keeps her room despite us sleeping together. We will remind ourselves as we go out for whatever that there will be no groping each other or very outward signs of affection. We were a little self conscious about something as innocent as holding hands, but we quickly realized that no one noticed, or seemed to care. What helps is that we don't have a lot of guests at our house, with the exception of her fellow students coming over to study together. I turn into the "cool dad," provide food and beverages, and just leave them alone to work. I've had a couple of friends over to watch TV and she looked at us in mock disgust and said "Too much testosterone. I'm outta here!" It was funny, and also disarming. No one suspects.

FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship? What's your reply to those who would say that this is a father preying on, and abusing his daughter, and that she couldn’t truly consent?

I know what I've done is illegal and is viewed with disdain, so it's very difficult to try and convince anyone that what we have is a beautiful love that hurts no one. I've read of people getting assaulted and the hatred is very offensive and vile. It's difficult so it's easier to not respond, and to not engage anyone who shares a negative viewpoint.

But what always gets missed is the opportunity to witness the love that grows between two people who are family. I think in some way if people looked at the entire picture they would see a couple sharing a good life together.

FME: If you could get legally married, and that included protections against discrimination, harassment, etc., would you? Or is this a different kind of relationship than that?

To be honest, probably not. I remember decades ago when coming out as gay or lesbian would tear families apart. I understand that it's accepted now, but with something like incest and the stigma it carries would most likely do a lot of damage to our family. There would be many problems associated with this form of coming out, especially if there are children or pregnancies involved.

FME: What advice do you have for someone who may be experiencing these feelings for a relative or family member, especially a daughter or father?

I would suggest that they become very aware of the other person involved. Look for small signs like a lingering touch, longer hugs, and definitely listen for words that could be suggestive.

There was a trust pattern slowly growing here. Our first encounter was when I noticed that she had stopped wearing her bathrobe and would be coming out of her room in just a t-shirt and panties. She would lean on me as I sat at the table, just a morning hug. After a short while, I responded by gently touching the back of her thigh, just a touch of affection but she would have noticed that my hand lingered and was a little higher up her thigh, but not a grope.

Make sure that both sides listen to each other. This is a very taboo topic, and an open heart and mind is necessary.

We started talking when I said with a grin that we were turning into room mates, and I mentioned that I noticed her change in morning attire. I said it was nice to see her like that, all moppy-headed and such.

Non-threatening and non-combative statements are essential. Make sure that when you actually start the discussion, it's from a place of love and respect.

We started the discussion while watching TV. She was wearing an old shirt of mine and the buttons were undone so I was able to see her breasts. I mentioned that to her and thanked her for trusting me. She responded with how I would get hard and she noticed that despite being clothed.

Slow, slow steps are needed. Always make sure the other is comfortable. It must be a consensual encounter.

FME: What advice do you have for family members and friends who think or know that relatives they know are having these feelings for each other? 

If they have a doubt or concern, please keep it to yourself, because what if you're wrong? If it's an imbalance, like in age for example, try and see any signs of distress. If you see that, approach them carefully. Their answer will dictate your next actions. When our doctor asked my daughter, she came to me and we both went to the doctor so she could see there was no abuse or such.

If you actually witness a moment of intimacy, consider again both sides. Are they enjoying themselves? Then please keep that as a secret to yourself. They have hopefully walked through a lot of heaviness together and the result has been worth it.

If they tell you that they are seeing each other, they are entrusting you to keep that as a secret. Please support them fully, offer your help if they need it, and please never judge. Remember, such relationships take time to develop and many conversations have taken place between the both of them.

FME: Do you consider yourself consanguinamorous in orientation, or could you be fulfilled in a relationship with someone who isn’t a close relative?

I feel more inclined to say that I am fulfilled with my daughter as my life partner, and I can say that she feels the same way with me. We both do not feel the need to seek anyone else at this time. The fact that we're discussing and planning to bring a child into this world should be enough.

FME: Any plans for the future?

The immdiate plans are is for her to finish school. Barring an "accident," we will hopefully try for a baby not too long after she graduates. We want to keep going on this path we have been on, hiking, walking, school, work, just being a couple without showing that we are a couple. We have a long term plan of going to Europe and trying an extended stay there, but having a baby might make that difficult. We have talked about getting pregnant, then travelling in order to have our baby in a different country. We definitely want to travel, baby or not. And for myself, I want to continue to fall deeper in love with her. She is literally my everything.

FME: Anything else to add?

Thank you for letting me tell you and anyone who reads this. I hope that in my words anyone can read of the growing love we have for each other, and not just focus on one aspect that certain people will fixate on in a negative sense. It's far larger that that.

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Clearly, these are consenting adults, and yet they can't even exercise their basic human rights as things are now. They are happy, yet they are denied fundamental rights. They can't even be open about their love without risking harassment or much worse.

Why should they be denied their rights? There’s no good reason. We need to recognize that all adults should be free to be with any and all consenting adults as they mutually consent, and part of doing that is adopting relationship rights for all, including full marriage equality sooner rather than later. People are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here. As you'll see, there are people from all walks of life, around the world, who are in consanguinamorous relationships.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.

If you want to be interviewed about your "forbidden" relationship, or that of someone you know, connect with me by checking under the "Get Connected" tab there at the top of the page or emailing me at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com or see here.

If you know someone who is in a relationship like this, please read this.

Thank you, David, for telling us about your intergenerational, consanguinamorous relationships. We wish you and your wife well!