I used to be active on a certain Big Online Portal's question-and-answer feature, answering questions related to full marriage equality and relationship rights for all adults, and occasionally questions about teenager sexuality. I still read what goes on there. Every once in a while, someone will ask a question like this...
Also, we don't know where they live, and thus whether or not they live somewhere where it is legal for a 17-year-old and 16-year-old to have sex with each other.
Most therapists consider such sibling behavior, absent any coercion, force, or intimidation, to be mutual experimentation or exploration.
In general, however, my advice to someone in the asker's position is to:
1. Confirm this is a voluntary activity. If observing wasn't enough, ask the younger/smaller/less assertive/more needy sibling if they are being pressured, intimidated, coerced, or forced in any way.
2. Respect their privacy. Start by reminding them it's a good idea to be discreet and promise you will knock.
3. Protect and support them.
4. If needed, assist them in accessing contraception and health care.
(See this extensive advice at The Final Manifesto for friends and family of consanguinamorous siblings.)
Walking in on anyone "making out" with someone else can be unsettling, especially if you're uptight about your own sexuality. Walking in your sibling in such a situation can be more so. Walking in on your sibling doing something to which you have a personal aversion (in this case, making out with a sibling, but in other cases it might be group sex, or gay sex, etc.) can be all the more so. But just because you might not want to do something doesn't mean someone else shouldn't or is mentally ill for enjoying that activity or enjoying that other person in that way. There may also be some feelings of jealousy and sibling rivalry prompting some negative reaction.
As far as there being so many other people they could be with: that will always be the case with any relationship. There is always "someone else" any given person could be with, but that is no reason these two teenagers shouldn't be together in the way they want. They love, trust, and enjoy each other, and have something they would be unlikely to find in others. This is what is working for them. Trying to force them apart would only cause problems. They will either stop on their own, moving on to other lovers, or they won't, and will have to deal with the prejudices that exist against such love.
The advice for parents who walk in on such a situation is a little different if the parents are legally responsible for the lovers, and I tend to subscribe to "your house, your rules" to a certain extent.
Brandy likes to answer questions like these...
Aurélie also answered, giving her personal experience with the subject...
People in consanguinamorous relationships like the one described in the question can find some support.
Also see:
Jane's Doe's Blog Entry to Parents of Consanguinamorous Children
Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory
Can Siblings Marry?
This entry addresses questions like Why would brothers and sisters have sex? Why would siblings have sex? I caught my siblings or brother and sister having sex; what should I do? I caught my brothers having sex. I caught my sisters having sex. Do siblings have sex?
I caught my siblings making out, what should i do?
I caught my 16 year old sister and 17 year old brother making out, I don't really know what to do. To be honest I'm very shocked, and a bit disoriented thinking about it. They're both pretty attractive, I don't see why they would shack up with each other when they could go out and get people who... aren't related to them.For all we know, the teens "making out" with each other are both half-siblings to the asker, and unrelated to each other, or they could be stepsiblings or adopted siblings. Or, they could be half or full-blood siblings to each other. (It might have even been a reunion Genetic Sexual Attraction situation if the siblings have not been raised together.) Whatever their genetic, legal, and social relation, it isn't uncommon for siblings as close in age as they are, especially in their teens, to have such affection between them.
I want to tell ma and pa, but they begged me not to, don't really know how to approach this situation, Or if I should just respect their privacy. I guess I'm just worried about their mental health, but I guess that's pretty unfair of me to assume something is wrong with them.
What do i do?
Also, we don't know where they live, and thus whether or not they live somewhere where it is legal for a 17-year-old and 16-year-old to have sex with each other.
Most therapists consider such sibling behavior, absent any coercion, force, or intimidation, to be mutual experimentation or exploration.
In general, however, my advice to someone in the asker's position is to:
1. Confirm this is a voluntary activity. If observing wasn't enough, ask the younger/smaller/less assertive/more needy sibling if they are being pressured, intimidated, coerced, or forced in any way.
2. Respect their privacy. Start by reminding them it's a good idea to be discreet and promise you will knock.
3. Protect and support them.
4. If needed, assist them in accessing contraception and health care.
(See this extensive advice at The Final Manifesto for friends and family of consanguinamorous siblings.)
Walking in on anyone "making out" with someone else can be unsettling, especially if you're uptight about your own sexuality. Walking in your sibling in such a situation can be more so. Walking in on your sibling doing something to which you have a personal aversion (in this case, making out with a sibling, but in other cases it might be group sex, or gay sex, etc.) can be all the more so. But just because you might not want to do something doesn't mean someone else shouldn't or is mentally ill for enjoying that activity or enjoying that other person in that way. There may also be some feelings of jealousy and sibling rivalry prompting some negative reaction.
As far as there being so many other people they could be with: that will always be the case with any relationship. There is always "someone else" any given person could be with, but that is no reason these two teenagers shouldn't be together in the way they want. They love, trust, and enjoy each other, and have something they would be unlikely to find in others. This is what is working for them. Trying to force them apart would only cause problems. They will either stop on their own, moving on to other lovers, or they won't, and will have to deal with the prejudices that exist against such love.
The advice for parents who walk in on such a situation is a little different if the parents are legally responsible for the lovers, and I tend to subscribe to "your house, your rules" to a certain extent.
Brandy likes to answer questions like these...
According to research I've seen, it's been estimated that between 25% to 50% of teenage guys would be gladly willing to engage in consensual sexual activities with their blood-related sisters if given the opportunity. Less than 1% of teenage females would be willing to do anything sexual with their brother, though. Your sister is simply in that smaller catagory. It doesn't mean that she's evil or twisted. As long as she hasn't been abused or molested, then she's probably emotionally healthy and mentally stable.Brandy then goes on a bit of a tangent.
Aurélie also answered, giving her personal experience with the subject...
Well Charlie, what people want to do with themselves and with each other is their own business. No one is being harmed or defrauded by their activities.Finding your siblings together in this way does not need to disrupt the home. This sort of thing has gone on for all of human history, in every culture, in rural families and urban families, poor families and rich families.
Personally, I think that siblings enjoying each other's bodies is not wrong (as long as it's consensual).
My twin brother and I have been enjoying special intimacy and sexual fun together for 3 years (we're 17 now). We don't have sex, but we have a fantastic time french kissing and cuddling together without any clothes on. Sharing orgasms by rubbing our "down there" parts together is by far the best.
If our parents found out, then we wouldn't deny it. We'd tell them that we love and respect each other. We don't lie to each other, and we don't cheat on each other. There isn't any drama or jealousy. We've never been naked with anyone else, so there aren't any STD's.
And I was the one who suggested that we start sharing our bodies and have some intimate fun together. It was completely my idea. At first my brother flatly refused to believe me. He couldn't believe that I was offering myself up to him on a silver platter, and he was certain that my request was a prank or a set-up, or that one of my friends was hiding somewhere and would burst out and start laughing at him. I finally gave up trying to verbally convince him, so I just stripped naked for him. That's when he said "Wow! OK! Great!"
Would people prefer that I instead had chosen a classmate from school or gotten a serious BF who would have screwed me and then immediately dumped me when I was 14? A guy who would have lied to me? A guy who would have boasted about screwing me to all of his friends? A guy who might have given me an STD? Assuming 2 BF's per year, then by now I might have been screwed by 6 different guys already, so ask all of those same questions again 5 more times.
Because my brother and I have shared something very special together (and continue to do so), today we're still virgins and yet we're both wonderfully sexually satisfied. So are the activities that I'm sharing with my brother really that horrible? Not in my opinion. We both really enjoy it, and we both treasure the fact that we genuinely care about each other. We don't ever feel the need to wear masks around each other. The sense of complete freedom is awesome beyond measure.
Siblings are better off being intimate, practicing on each other, and enjoying each other... instead of allowing themselves to be lied to and used by unrelated STD-infested players and gold-digging b*tches who wouldn't give a crap about their feelings.
People in consanguinamorous relationships like the one described in the question can find some support.
Also see:
Jane's Doe's Blog Entry to Parents of Consanguinamorous Children
Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory
Can Siblings Marry?
This entry addresses questions like Why would brothers and sisters have sex? Why would siblings have sex? I caught my siblings or brother and sister having sex; what should I do? I caught my brothers having sex. I caught my sisters having sex. Do siblings have sex?
![Non-Monogamy Diagram [I:FV]](http://www.obsidianfields.com/lj/nonmonogamy2.5.1.gif){kind=link}
Take a look at the last (3rd) question in this week's Dan Savage column!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=20948755
I agree as long as nobod is harmed then their relationship should be respected and they should be left alone.
ReplyDeleteI would hope siblings enjoying a consensual relationship like that would be allowed to continue. Whether it's just for fun or whether it's the beginning of a life-long relationship, there is no reason that they can't be together.
ReplyDelete-Liz Smith
blond_one89@tutamail.com
I understand that in New Jersey and Rhode Island, as well as in Spain, Portugal and Japan, and probably in France as well, related couples can have children legally
ReplyDeleteif that is the case what does make of the argument against incest marriage which is said to be in place to prevent inbreeding?
If inbreeding is taking place anyway without legal marriage, what is the point of prohibiting consanguineous marriage?
I think the percentage figures give by Brandy in truth are probably a little short, in my opinion. I think experimentation is normally the main reason for sexual activity between siblings but it is also affection too, especially as siblings become older. I think if people are honest we can all think back to an occasion or more when we have fooled around with a sibling ranging from kissing to full intercourse.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Keith that the issue of consanguinamory between siblings from the point of view of tolerance for their relationships among members of their own family is extremely important. Moreover, it is often a matter of their mental and physical health and sometimes life and death. And it's certainly a matter of their happiness and ability to live in the future as full-fledged individuals.
ReplyDeleteTherefore, having "caught" teenagers, preteens, and even children engaging in sexual acts of varying forms and intensity, each family member, especially adult, is faced with an incredibly difficult choice: accept the obvious and help, or forbid, punish, and separate the "apostates." Unfortunately, the vast majority of adults, even those who theoretically support the principles of Full Marriage Equality, will choose the latter. And this will have bad or very bad consequences for everyone, especially for the "guilty" ones.
Love is a natural phenomenon, and fighting nature under any "noble" pretext has never done anyone any good but only led to troubles. Each of us humans is constantly looking for our significant other (or "twin flame"), and it's not improbable that we can find them in our own sibling. This should not be surprising, it happens all the time and it is pointless to fight it.
We must be wise, we must overcome our own prejudices and, above all, think about the well-being and happiness of our children, brothers and sisters, and not about the fact that their relationships make us feel uncomfortable and run counter to the principles of religion, society and laws. It is sometimes incredibly difficult, but it is necessary to take this step, putting aside ours own selfishness and narrow-mindedness.
I completely agree with the girl's statement that a sexually romantic relationship between siblings is physically and emotionally safer to a much greater extent than a relationship between people who are not genetically related and do not live under the same roof. Simply because they have known each other since a very young age and understand well what can be expected from their partner. And, of course, they are similar not only externally, but also to some extent internally, that is, they have a number of the same preferences and rejections, like or dislike the same things, know each other's habits and have learned to put up with them.
But sibling relationships should be beyond any doubt voluntary, without physical and moral coercion, conscious and not harm other family members (except for the moral injuries of other family members stemming from their rejection of the siblings' natural rights to love and physical intimacy). This is an axiom and a condition that cannot be discussed.
And the last thing I want to say. I am suspicious of statistics because it is too often artificially "adjusted" to preset results and reflect only the opinion of the person who conducts the research. I don't want to discuss the absolute numbers showing how many percent of siblings would like to enter into a relationship with their sisters/brothers. I just don't believe that sisters are 30-50 times less willing to consider such an opportunity than their brothers. Why? Psychology and behavioral features! Girls and women are always much less open with outsiders, even if it's an anonymous survey. And this applies to a large extent to intimate issues, especially those that relate to established taboos. In other words, they lie to outsiders because they are ashamed of themselves. Boys, men are much more outspoken and don't hesitate to talk about "perversions." Read blogs about "incest" and you will immediately see that women are much less likely to confide than men, even if we consider that many of the stories are fake. But even in this case, the ratio is much higher than 1/30 or 1/50.
My comment exceeds the limits allowed in this blog so I've divided it into 2 parts.
ReplyDeletePart 1.
I want to share with our community one thought about what should be discussed with siblings in love (or "experimenting" with each other) if we discover their relationship. Of course, in a form accessible to their perception.
In this and other blogs devoted to serious discussion of consanguinamory issues, there is a lot of talk about how consangunamorous couples should be treated the same as couples of people not related by close genetic kinship in terms of their natural rights and tolerance of their relationships on the part of outsiders. And this is fundamentally correct and non-negotiable.
At the same time, we all wish all couples to "live happily ever after" "until death do them part." Including of cours sibling couples. But in real life, it often happens otherwise, couples break up, that is, they change partners. And alas there are features for siblings that they should be aware of in order to avoid moral injury.
The separation of any couple can be amicable (when they can even remain friends) or painful for one or both members of the couple. However, it always leads to awkwardness if they suddenly meet in some place that is compounded in the presence of new partners. At the same time, new partners are usually aware of the exes and they perceive hiding the identities of former lovers as betrayal. The severity of the separation of former partners is smoothed out by their ability to ghost each other, by cutting off all contacts, avoiding possible meeting places, changing their places of residence, etc.
For obvious reasons, siblings cannot completely exclude each other from their lives in case of changing partners. They are forced to meet at family gatherings, family holidays, in case of emergencies with family members. But the separation of siblings can be the result of infidelity, incompatibility, resentment, betrayal, mistreatment - just like in "traditional" couples. If we put ourselves in their shoes, we will understand that meetings between former sibling lovers can become triggers leading to depression, panic attacks, open confrontation, and so on. And it can blow up the family and new relationships if they were hiding their past from them.
Part 2.
ReplyDeleteAmong other things, in the vast majority of cases, siblings do not tell a new partners who are not family members about their relationships with their sisters/brothers. (Of course, sibling can find a new partner within the family, but this is a very special case). If the sibling's new partner somehow guesses / finds out about their past, this will lead in 100% of cases to a public scandal and a breakup of the relationship. (Unless sibling claims that they were "raped.")
This scenario is also quite possible: siblings who are in a new committed relationships while meeting will feel that the "old flame" has flared up and will start an affair, as it often happens with "traditional couples".
So what should we advise siblings if we open up their relationship or if they confide in us?
I would tell them honestly that I am happy for them and support them, but that they have embarked on a path full of dangers and difficulties. That if they manage to hide their relationship, it would only solve part of their problems. That they should be prepared for the fact that their sister/brother or them themselves may want to break off the relationship for various reasons and this can lead to dramas that "traditional" couples do not have. That their existing family and possible future families with other partners could turn from a calm, secure fortress into a place of battle and destruction.
That they need to be sure that their mutual feelings are not just sexual interest (in this case, everything is simple, they only need to use contraceptives). That they need to be sure they are strong enough to withstand a hostile environment in any potential situations.
As strange as it may sound, but in fact the safest relationship between siblings is strict monoamory / monogamy until the death of one of the partners in conditions of constant secrecy and rejection of many traditional activities and rituals. Of course, not all siblings are ready for this, and they should start/continue/develop a sexually romantic relationship with their eyes open and without illusions. And it's our duty to warn them.