Leo Aspen, who leaves thoughtful comments here from time to time, left a comment worthy of being highlighted as a post. I will redact certain words because I don’t want them published on the blog, even as comments, because I want this blog to be as “safe for work” as a blog with this subject matter can be.
Leo’s thoughts are his. I’m simply sharing them.
Here’s is what Leo shared…
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I read a post on Reddit today:
https://www.reddit.com/r/survivinginfidelity/comments/1ovarir/triggered_today_by_tiktok/ which I cite below.
https://www.reddit.com/r/survivinginfidelity/comments/1ovarir/triggered_today_by_tiktok/ which I cite below.
It touches on two of the most painful topics of human relationships - "incest"/consanguinamory and infidelity.
Of course, on the r/survivinginfidelity sub, everyone quite rightly curses OP's husband for infidelity, and "incest" with his sister serves as an additional fuel and "aggravating circumstance." Redditors also relish the fact that almost all of his family are habitual cheaters, that is, "the apple doesn't fall far from the apple tree."
Can we say something in defense of this incestuous couple, given that our community supports consanguinamory?
There seems to be only one argument: if society, the state, and religion had been tolerant of sexually romantic relationships between blood relatives, then most likely the OP's husband would never have married her, and the brother and sister would have been able to live as a "normal couple."
But this is a very weak, ambiguous excuse based on the obviously unacceptable "if something had happened" defense argument.
The brother and sister had several honest ways to be together. A brother might not have married an OP, knowing that he loved his sister.
If their feelings had flared up after the wedding he could have divorced his wife and only then started cohabiting with his sister.
Or, by staying married for the sake of children, he and she might not cross the line. And in these cases, our sympathies would be unconditionally on their side.
But they preferred a dirty affair rather than a decent, morally justified relationship. And with their irresponsible behavior, they destroyed 2 families causing irreparable damage to the children.
But these siblings have also done great damage to the goals of Full Marriage Equality by linking the concepts of "incest" and "infidelity" together in the minds of many people. "Look, they say, everyone who has had sexual relations with relatives has proved once again that they are trash." And we won't be able to prove these people wrong.
Incest/consanguinamy, like any sexually romantic relationship between unrelated people, should be ethical and should not cause moral or physical harm to third parties. Only in this case do we have a chance that society will someday be tolerant of any sexual identification and the free choice of any sexual partner(s) by any person.
[Below is what Leo found on Reddit]
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u/Smart-Cod4884
Triggered today by tiktok
Need Support
So f—-info broken today and trying not to lose my s—- in front of my kids.
Saw a post today that said "my lacy is my boyfriends sister" which from what I gathered its someone that you envy to the point of hating them bc they have everything you could ever want. One of the top comments said "at least she cant steal your man"
My husband's sister is my lacy and she did steal my man. My husband cheated on me with his own sister. What the f—- did I do to deserve that. It has been so incredibly hard trying to work through this. I trusted him. I trusted her. She was in our wedding. I didnt get the option. I wouldnt have married him. I would've cut my losses and moved far far away. I didnt find out until I was 30 weeks pregnant with our second child, 4 years into them sleeping together. Every time we went to any family event they were sneaking away. While I was in the same house. While our child was in the same house.
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u/Smart-Cod4884
Triggered today by tiktok
Need Support
So f—-info broken today and trying not to lose my s—- in front of my kids.
Saw a post today that said "my lacy is my boyfriends sister" which from what I gathered its someone that you envy to the point of hating them bc they have everything you could ever want. One of the top comments said "at least she cant steal your man"
My husband's sister is my lacy and she did steal my man. My husband cheated on me with his own sister. What the f—- did I do to deserve that. It has been so incredibly hard trying to work through this. I trusted him. I trusted her. She was in our wedding. I didnt get the option. I wouldnt have married him. I would've cut my losses and moved far far away. I didnt find out until I was 30 weeks pregnant with our second child, 4 years into them sleeping together. Every time we went to any family event they were sneaking away. While I was in the same house. While our child was in the same house.
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*****
Thank you for your thoughtful analysis, Leo, and sharing that perspective from the “unwitting beard.”
Cheating is never ideal. I do agree, Leo, that with relationship rights for all, situations like these would be less likely to happen.
I’ve heard from people who’ve been cheated on because their spouse has entered into additional bonds with at least one close relative. I’ve heard from many more people who are the person cheating with at least one close relative.
I welcome the perspectives from all of them because the more we understand what’s happening and why, the better.
We need to ensure laws and larger society affirm that people will have diverse relationships, and that also includes ending relationships or not entering into sexual or romantic or partner relationships at all. Oppression, discrimination, bigotry, prejudice, bullying, criminalization… trying to force everyone into some narrow, heterosexual, monogamous, intraracial (that’s same race), non-consanguineous construct causes all sorts of problems.
For anyone who needs to talk more about these things, Keith can be reached on Wire messaging at fullmarriageequality and via email at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com.
![Non-Monogamy Diagram [I:FV]](http://www.obsidianfields.com/lj/nonmonogamy2.5.1.gif){kind=link}
Thank you, Keith, for giving me the opportunity to express my beliefs.
ReplyDeleteI was prompted to write about this case by the constant attempts, even in serious Internet resources, to justify an ordinary dirty affair using the positive attitude of our supporters and allies towards consanguinamory/"incest".
Betrayal of a partner (partners) in a committed relationship, cheating on them, paternity fraud is not and cannot be justified, because there is always an honest way: if something does not go well in the relationship, if one of the partners has fallen in love with another person, then they can and should either work on a committed relationship or leave, or negotiate a polyamorous relationship with all interested parties. And this is an indisputable moral imperative. Period.
Even in such a blog as Incest Corner, which I deeply respect, dedicated to the sexual and romantic relationships of mothers and sons, there are always questions and sympathetic comments about various aspects of a mother's sexual life with her son and her husband at the same time. And even about how to deal with situations when a mother does not know who the father of her new baby is.
Of course, in most cases this is fake, just another kink inspired by traditional pop culture, but there is no doubt that there are many similar situations in the real world.
And there are double standards here.
It is unlikely that we, who consider ourselves worthy people with solid morals and self-respect, will justify an affair, especially a paternity fraud, between committed partners who are not related by blood. Obviously, none of us, except perverts and moral freaks, would even dream of bragging about affairs in public, to our relatives and friends.
But as soon as it comes to consanguinamory, many of us begin to doubt, putting up arguments that "everything is not black and white," that life is very complicated, that we cannot judge strictly those who went against taboos, against society, the state and religion, that "love justifies everything," etc. And it is considered quite decent to describe anti-moral situations, seek support and ask for advice on how to safely continue an affair.
But stop!
We have free will, and we and only we are responsible for all our actions regardless of previous events and background. We need to be judged for our actions, not for our intentions and/or for the circumstances. We know what good and evil are and we must be able to distinguish one from the other.
Moral and/or physical abuse, betrayal, lies remain abuse, betrayal, lies, regardless of who the abusers are including those who are in a relationships with close relatives.
The concept of Full Marriage Equality is the most powerful tool in the fight for human rights in the realm of sexual relations, precisely because it is deeply moral in the highest sense of the word, without any reservations or exceptions. And our attitude to every real case of consanguinous relationships should be not only sympathetic, but also critical, depending on the information we have. I believe that the purpose of our community is not only to support and congratulate, but also to express unbiased judgments about the ethical aspects of the relationships of consanguineous couples or polyamorous groups.