Karen Ruskin Gets Schooled on Her Monogamy-Only Attitude

“Dr. Karen” has books and does TV and radio in the New England area, talking about marriage and parenting. You know the type. Recently, she gave “expert advice” on “open relationships.” She not only touts monogamy as superior to anything else, but the only possible relationship type. To make her opinion clear up front, she wrote…

No, the answer is NO – DO NOT, I repeat in capital letters: DO NOT have any additional partner/person in your marriage.

But how does she really feel?

Threesomes, swinging, polyamory, any inclusion of any one in addition to your spouse as a sexual partner in your marriage–the answer is no, do not do it!

And why not? According to her…

Through my 18 years of providing couples counseling, with consistency couples who report they decided to have some form of open relationship rather than a monogamous relationship have ended up in an awful mental place and have destroyed their marriage.

(Emphasis mine. It is important.)

The pattern is that, time and time again, having a threesome, swinging, polyamory, or any kind of sexual interaction with someone in addition to your spouse eventually always negatively impacts the marital relationship in a horribly ugly traumatic way.

That’s interesting. I know of multiple situations in which cheating, while problematic in the short run, ended up being the wake-up call the marriage needed and the marriage ended up better as a result. That’s cheating, not an agreed-to side event or relationship. Still, I don’t advocate cheating, but my point is, the relationship not only recovered, but got better… in some cases. And I know, very, very well, polyamorous relationships that are happy, healthy, and lasting.

But she is talking about people who based their relationship, in part, on an agreement to monogamy. They have always tried to be monogamous. Most of these people have monogamy ingrained into their personality. It’s like someone who has spent twenty years playing tennis one-on-one and then expecting to automatically, immediately do well at two-on-two tennis.

For some couples, it is from that moment during the sexual three-way, swing interaction, or polyamorous experience that the couple is never the same, nor are the individuals within the couple unit. For other couples, it is that same day or a day later they are impacted and are never the same again, in a negative way. For other couples, it is days later, and for some it is weeks later. Then there are other couples who don’t fully recognize the damage this choice caused the relationship until a few months later as the negative effect builds over the days and weeks to come.

…and sometimes not until someone like her insists that the problems they have are a result of their nonmonogamy. Their choice is either to agree with her or to stop talking with her.

There are couples who so desperately want to succeed in their new venture of having an open relationship that they try to sell their choice like a product and offer to others that this lifestyle is a healthy way to remain married. It is obvious to a relationship expert such as myself that they are trying to force themselves to believe the choice they made is healthy by advertising it to others in a desperate attempt to be validated.

Couldn’t one say the same thing about someone who insists monogamy is the only way?

When you speak with these couples you typically learn that one of them was no longer fulfilled in the marriage and the marriage was headed for divorce if an agreement of extra- marital inclusion was not made.

So… wouldn’t that mean that the nonmonogamy wasn’t the problem after all?

I view this as selling one’s soul to save your family and really what you are doing is destroying the family, your children, the beauty and gift of what marriage is, and your own mental health.

Hey, if someone doesn’t want to do it or agree to it, after careful consideration, then they shouldn’t, of course.

Couples that choose to have an open marriage simply do not know how to have a successful monogamous relationship.

And Elton John just hasn’t found the right woman, right?

The fantasy is always better than the reality.

Funny, I’ve heard some people say that about monogamous marriage, too. Should people give up on them?

There's much more, as people left critical comments and Ruskin tried to defend her closed-mindedness.

Polyamory, Marriage, and Lesbians

A woman wrote in to “Dear Sappho,” saying she doesn’t have a personal desire to marry…

At any rate, since I was young and had three girlfriends at the same time I have always felt that all lesbians should be free to love any one by mutual choice with the full consent and knowledge of all parties involved.

That’s polyamory.

Cathy White responded…

Maybe you just haven’t met the right girl yet.

Please tell me that was a joke. I think it was.

She goes on to write about the importance of the same-sex freedom to marry. Then…

Polyamorous affairs may cause so much trouble that most lesbians probably love other women in secret and spare themselves the drama.

Cheating means less drama? That doesn’t sound right to me. Or did she mean it should be kept secret from others outside the relationship? Staying in a closet brings its own difficulties, though.

There is no reason to limit the definition of love to marriage or monogamy only. It is a limited type of thinking. However few lesbians have succeeded at polyamory, women being raised to be faithful wives, and all that. Natalie Barney, an American lesbian who lived in Paris, was one of the few women who did.

The writer is talking about known people. Many lesbians have led happy polyamorous lives and have not published anything about it.

She ends up with…

Your ideology is very evolved and you may be ahead of your time. Yes, I agree, it is a lover’s dream come true, to freely love who ever you love as you really love them. It sounds very good in theory and I wish you the best possible luck with all of your girlfriends, especially any jealous or controlling ones.

The ones who are too jealous or controlling won’t be her girlfriends very long. Not everyone is right for everyone else. That is a big reason why full marriage equality – which would include the freedom to marry any consenting adults, and the freedom not to marry at all, and to divorce – is such an important thing. Some people do best in unmarried polyamory. Some others ache to have their entire polycule enter into a legal marriage or marriages (polygamy). It should be up to them, not outsiders.

Another Example of How Sister Wives is Opening Minds

High school student Isabelle Agnew, in this piece, shows that “Sister Wives” is opening the minds of the youth.

I've really grown to like the Brown family, and completely understand their mindset when it comes to their religion and lifestyles.

It's no big secret that the "norm" in today's society is monogamy. This means that to be accepted into society, it is expected that we only ever have one partner.

That is presented as the norm, but is it really the norm? Very few people have one sexual partner for life, and even fewer are with a person who has also had only them as a sexual partner for life.

Most people have the idea that a polygamist group is one of those you see on the news whose children walk around with very conservative outfits. Usually we hear those horror stories in the news about a man in the group getting married to girls as young as 12 or 13, and then proceeding to produce several babies with them.

This is not how the Brown family lives, nor is it a lifestyle that I am condoning.

Good.

Personally, while watching the Browns, I feel like they are a much happier family than many monogamist families.

While the wives (who call themselves sister wives) have to frequently deal with jealousy, I feel as if they all have a stronger relationship with Kody than they would if they were individually with Kody.

Very interesting observation.

Polygamy may or may not be a lifestyle suitable for everyone, and the same goes for monogamy.

We deserve the right to choose between the two.

Yes! Exactly! Well, not just the two. There’s monogamy and so many forms of nonmonogamy. As I am so fond of saying, an adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults. That may mean a woman marries one woman, or two women who are not married to each other, or all three are married together, or a woman marries a man and a woman, or whatever Let adults decide for themselves. They may not even want to get married, but live together. Let them. All of the people who worry so much about this should find more productive things to do with their time. In the case of the Browns, the women are each married to Kody, not each other.

Consenting Adults Still Being Bullied Over Encounter

The people at The Sun continue their intense interest in the Finlaysons while pretending to be disgusted at the siblings for having sex.

Kirsty Finlayson — now facing jail for the sordid act — claims she can't remember the double romp in a train station lift.

Sordid?

But she admits the incident has left her unable to sleep and eat after destroying her family.

Maybe the family would be better off if bullies would stop harassing them.

And she sobbed: "I've been made out to be a monster and have had to deal with people calling me a prostitute.

The monsters are the people who feel a need to interfere in the sex lives of others.

After word got out about the case Kirsty, who later moved out the hostel into a flat, had a brick thrown through her window and was hounded out of her home.

Ignorant haters.

As for her brother…

"After court, when I spoke to my mum — she was devastated. I thought she'd disown me but she has been as supportive as she can be.

Good for her.

"I've had to move home to try and get away. I'm scared to walk down the street."

They are both apologetic throughout the article. They are due to be sentenced on Friday. Perhaps they talked with the paper and fell on their swords in an attempt to get leniency from the court?

This should have never been reported to the police. The police should never have spent any time on this case. The court should never have accepted the case. Everyone would be better off.

Interracial Love Still Denounced by Some

With Loving vs. Virginia being over 44 years old, interracial marriage remains controversial to some. Los Angeles Times columnist Sandy Banks cites an angry letter she received.

She was — like me — black, middle-aged and middle-class, and she disagreed vehemently with whatever I'd said that week.

She threw down the gauntlet with her closing remark: "I can tell; you're one of those women with a white boyfriend."

So begins Banks’ column (go read it) considering the issues surrounding black women dating and marrying men of other races.

She concludes with a statement that resonates in my heart…

It's hard enough to find someone you love without making romance a test of racial solidarity.

If someone finds love and happiness with another or others, it shouldn’t matter what their skin color is, or their gender, or if they are a stepsibling or a long lost close biological relative or anything else. What matters is how they treat each other.

There will always be people who disapprove of someone else's love. This should not stop us from progressing to full marriage equality sooner rather than later.

Coming Out Today?

Today is National Coming Out Day!

Here’s the official website, at least for the US. There is much helpful information there, regardless of where you live.

The more people that come out, the more the others around them will realize they do know and appreciate people who are LGBT, or polyamorous, or consanguinamorous, and that such people and relationships deserve equality. So coming out helps progress.

On the other hand, it is understandable that any given person, couple, triad, or quad decides to stay in the closet for now. There’s still so much hate, so much prejudice and persecution, and even unjust laws that hinder the life and love of people who are good citizens and just want to be themselves. I support the decision of anyone who believes they need to be reserved for now for the sake of their safety and family.

The decision to come out is yours. Do you want to come out, and to whom? Your friends? Your family? Your coworkers? Your classmates? Your neighbors? Your crush? The whole world?

Also, if someone comes out to you, the decision to be an ally is yours. If your classmate, coworker, neighbor, friend, parent, child, or sibling comes to you and says they are gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered, polyamorous, or in a consanguinamorous relationship, what will you do? Will you choose love and acceptance?

Even if you are heterosexual, monogamous, and nonconsanguinamorous, you may want to come out as an ally for full marriage equality. That alone can take courage, but it helps.

If you are planning to come out, or you do come out, please feel free to share your experience here by commenting.

The Past and Future of Marriage

Paemela Haag was interviewed about her book Marriage Confidential.

What are the "secretly transgressive" marriages you describe in your book?

If you're at a cocktail party with 20 married couples, chances are, one or two are in openly non-monogamous marriages. They're the marriage next door. They pay the bills, go to Little League games, recycle -- and maybe on the weekend go on swinging holidays.

Chances are, someone close to you in your daily life is in a marriage in which the nonmonogamy is by mutual agreement. It may be a an ongoing polyfidelity situation, the occasional threesome, an open marriage, or they may swap or swing, or have some other arrangement.

How does non-monogamy fit into the future of marriage?

More marriages will have a conversation about monogamy, rather than just assuming it is the default. It seems to me that non-monogamy might become a more accepted option, much as premarital sex has shifted from largely scorned to widely tolerated today.

In my book, I look at the entire gamut of extramarital sex -- from conventional cheating to "affair tolerators" who look the other way to monogamy "agnostics" who don't care as much about marital monogamy as they thought they would to deliberately open, ethically non-monogamous marriages and even "asexual" marriages, where one or both spouses really doesn't have an interest in sex.

If we want people to keep getting married, we’ll arrive at full marriage equality sooner rather than later, because if more people can be true to themselves while getting legally married, they will. There are people in same-sex, polyamorous, or consanguinamorous relationships that will go get legally married the first day they can.

A Study on Polyandry

My general caution with scientific studies involving other animals is that results aren’t always analogous to humans. We can point to other animals to make a case that same-sex attraction, polyamory, or consanguinamory are natural, but it isn’t necessary. Human beings are constantly allowed things that aren’t natural. One example: the very device you using to access this.

With that being said, I found this abstract worth noting.

Our results rather support the alternative hypothesis of ‘adaptive polyandry’: females in better condition are more polyandrous. Furthermore, we reveal that multiple mating incurs significant energetic costs, which are strikingly symmetrical between the sexes. Our study shows that mouse lemur females exert tight control over mating and actively seek multiple mates. The benefits of remating are nevertheless not offset by its costs in low-condition females, suggesting that polyandry is a flexible strategy yielding moderate fitness benefits in this small mammal.

The Dargers Continue to Get the Word Out

On their book publicity tour, the Dargers (inspiration for “Big Love”) have been doing a good job of promoting the polygamous freedom to marry, or at least the freedom of association.

Joe Darger and his three wives, Alina, Vicki, and Valerie, said they are willing to risk persecution and prosecution by speaking up for what they see as a First Amendment freedom of religion issue.

Remember, there are actually laws in place that essentially ban cohabitation, let alone ban polygamous marriages.

They also hope their story will lead to changes in the law. Living in a plural marriage is a third-degree felony in Utah, although the law is rarely enforced and polygamists live in an “uneasy truce” with authorities, Valerie Darger said.

“At any time, should they choose to, they could come out and prosecute us,” Valerie Darger said. “Coming out is a risk we weighed, but there will be no change unless we do step forward.”

The Dargers say they live with the fear of being arrested and are constantly worried about others finding out about their family structure. They also hope their children will have the legal right to live in a plural marriage if they choose to do so.

An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with ANY consenting adults.

The Law Needs to Adapt to Polygamy

This blurb takes a short look at a radio program on polygamy, which according to the blurb is surging among British Muslims.

What's Wrong with Polygamy? (Asian Network) was studded with moments to make you hurl things at the radio. "I just went ahead and did it," one polygamist said of his second marriage. "My first wife found out about it afterwards".

Other spouses should always be informed so that they can express their objections or divorce.

There were some surprising points of view. One woman explained that she had chosen to be a second wife.

Why is that surprising?

"I didn't want him 24/7," she said. "I didn't want to cook for him 24/7." A first wife willingly agreed to polygamy ("I will be rewarded if I suffer") but asked for a divorce after six miserable years.

Six years? That’s longer than many monogamous marriages last.

Places like the UK are dealing with an increase in subcultures practicing Islamic polygyny, as well as polyamory that isn’t necessarily affiliated with religion. There are three basic responses:

1. Trying to prevent polyamory and polygamy. This would involve investigating, arresting, prosecuting, and jailing and/or fining people for having consensual relationships. This is overly intrusive and oppressive, and not very effective.

2. Ignoring it. This will mean an increase of problems as people living in marriages won’t have those marriages legally recognized. What does this do to the government’s social programs?

3. Registering the marriages per request. This provides equality and protects spouses and children. This is the best option. It offers the most protection against welfare fraud and domestic violence.

The British people should not have their marriages dictated by the Anglican church, especially if they aren’t Anglicans or aren’t religious. Adaptation is necessary. Embrace full marriage equality, and let adults have the marriages they choose.

Do You Want to Come Out?

Life can be tough for someone who doesn’t fit in to a little heterosexual, monogamous, "traditional"-gender-role box or whose relationship doesn’t meet the local sex police’s approved standards. Sometimes, a person or the people in a relationship want to come out of the closet. Sometimes they need to come out. For some of these people, it is a little less difficult if they do so as part of a communal event, such as National Coming Out Day.

National Coming Out Day is this coming Tuesday, October 11. Here’s the official website, at least for the US. There is much helpful information there, regardless of where you live.

The more people that come out, the more the others around them will realize they do know and appreciate people who are LGBT, or polyamorous, or consanguinamorous, and that such people and relationships deserve equality. So coming out helps progress.

On the other hand, it is understandable that any given person, couple, triad, or quad decides to stay in the closet for now. There’s still so much hate, so much prejudice and persecution, and even unjust laws that hinder the life and love of people who are good citizens and just want to be themselves. i support the decision of anyone who believes they need to be reserved for now for the sake of thier safety and familty.

The decision to come out is yours. Do you want to come out, and to whom? Your friends? Your family? Your coworkers? Your classmates? Your neighbors? Your crush? The whole world?

Also, if someone comes out to you, the decision to be an ally is yours. If your classmate, coworker, neighbor, friend, parent, child, or sibling comes to you and says they are gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered, polyamorous, or in a consanguinamorous relationship, what will you do? Will you choose love and acceptance?

Even if you are heterosexual, monogamous, and nonconsanguinamorous, you may want to come out as an ally for full marriage equality. That alone can take courage, but it helps.

If you are planning to come out, or you do come out, please feel free to share your experience here by commenting.

One Person's Involvement in Two Consanguineous Relationships

Things have been getting even better at ILF, which is a good place to go to discuss consanguinamory and consanguineous sex in a supportive environment.

As a reminder, you need to register (you can do so with a handle or pseudonym) and start contributing (for example, introduce yourself) before getting increased access, so you’re not going to see all of the discussion areas when you first go there.

Below is an example of the kind of information you’ll find there, including some graphic language.