What About Donor-Conceived People Getting Together?

The National Infertility and Adoption Education Organization has a Question and Answer about “Accidental Incest between Donor Conceived People.”

Q: How worried should I be about inadvertent partnering of two donor conceived half siblings from the same donor?

The main worry is an artificial one... undue criminalization of such relationships.

From their answer...

While the fear is understandable, many professionals believe the fear is not well founded. For example, we asked this question to Ole Schou, founder and CEO of Cryos International sperm banks, who has researched and spoke to professional groups on this issues. [Note that he is not a native English speaker.]

“There is no reason to be concerned about accidental incest between donor conceived children/adults. The risk is extremely low. Professionals call the risk consanguinity or inbreeding. It is also described as incest. However, this word is surrounded by many taboos and connected to something morally wrong, and is not the best word to use in this situation.

I agree.

The concern is for the increase in recessive DNA disorders in children where the parents DNA are too closely matched. Remember that all humans have plenty of these recessive genes (C.J. Bell 2011).

However, the risk may only be increased some few percentage in comparison to normal procreation. So this is not much. It is more a problem if it continues generation after generation.

That is what we’ve been saying.

This is not relevant for donors as it is only a one generation issue.

Further, the risk that two half siblings from the same donor meet each other is generally very little if the sperm bank distribute internationally or worldwide.

It might be tempting for someone working for a sperm bank to claim that if a donor-conceived person walks into a room with 100 people in it, one conceived from the same donor, and chooses one person to approach, there is only a 1% chance it will be their half-sibling (if we’re talking egg or sperm donation, full sibling if we’re talking donated embryos). However, there odds are probably going to be much higher because of the shared genes. That is one reason Genetic Sexual Attraction happens. Sharing genes can cause people to be strongly attracted to each other. This is going to happen more and more as more and more people, for reasons including donation as well as many other reasons, are raised apart from close genetic relatives.

Donors are often screened for genetic problems, so that is a plus for avoiding problems.

Anyway, it is interesting to see what they had to say about risks to children born of consanguineous parents.

Why Russia Needs Full Marriage Equality

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted, even in places like Russia, where their relationships are not criminlized. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law.

The man interviewed below should be free to legally marry his spouse and mother of his children, yet they can't. They are consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone; why should they be denied their rights? In much of the world, they could be criminally prosecuted for their love

Read the interview below and see for yourself what this man has to say. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic and romantic, but whatever your reaction, should these lovers be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

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FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourself.

Ivan: I’m a 24-year-old lawyer working mostly from home. I live in Moscow now with my sister and our four children.

It's Ally Week

Ally Week is a student-led program so that LGBTQ K-12 students and LGBTQ educators lead the conversation on what they need from their allies in school.

Ally Week 2019 is September 23-27. Student leaders and K-12 educators can register for Ally Week 2019 HERE.

Finding Love With the One With You All Along

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are, by law, denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law.

The woman interviewed below should be free to legally marry her spouse, yet they can't, and they could be imprisoned and have their lives ruined if they were outed to the wrong people. They are consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone; why should they be denied their rights? In much of the world, including their country, they could be criminally prosecuted for their love

Read the interview below and see for yourself what this woman has to say. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic and romantic, but whatever your reaction, should these lovers be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

WARNING: Mild sexuality. 

*****

Question About Consanguineous Affection

Someone asked a question at this blog's sister Tumblr, and they got an answer. Here it is.

Better Late Than Never

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are, by law, denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law.

The man and woman interviewed below should be free to legally marry, yet they can't, and they could be imprisoned and have their lives ruined if they were outed. They are consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone; why should they be denied their rights? In much of the world, including all but a a few US states, they could be criminally prosecuted for their love

Read the interview below and see for yourself what they have to say. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic and romantic, but whatever your reaction, should these lovers be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

WARNINGS: Mildly explicit sexuality. 

Don't Panic If Your Partner Brings Up Swinging

...or any other form of ethical nonmonogamy.
Ever notice that many of the same people who say swinging, or any form of ethical nonmonogamy will destroy a marriage urge someone whose spouse has merely raised the possibility of ethical nonmonogamy to divorce that spouse? Recently I heard two professional commentators who often focus on relationships urge divorce and say something akin to "your marriage is already over" because the spouse brought it up, even though these commentators disagree about many things when it comes to relationships. Then there are the online comments from the masses, which often say the same thing. I was glad to see this answer on Quora from Franklin Veaux, who is an excellent communicator of valuable information regarding ethical nonmonogamy and sex and relationships in general. Let's think things through here.

It’s Not True That New Jersey Siblings Won Marriage Rights in Court

There are a "news report" recently that appears to be satirical, that said a brother and sister in the US state of New Jersey had won a Supreme Court decision allowing them to marry. Here's an example.

Unfortunately, it isn't true. 

It's outrageous that any consenting adults would be denied such a basic freedom as their right to marry. There are countless siblings who wish the news was real, but are cruelly forced into the closet.

It doesn't matter if other people think it is strange, or disgusting, or it is against their religion. They don't have to do it. Consenting adults, under equal protection of the law, should be free to have the relationships to which they mutually agree. 

Full marriage equality is needed sooner rather than later.

Help make the fake news real.

It's Bisexual Awareness Week

September 16 through September 23 is Bisexual Awareness Week, with the 23rd being Bisexuality Day.

Co-founded by GLAAD, Bisexual+ Awareness Week seeks to accelerate acceptance of the bi+ (pansexual, fluid, no label, queer, etc.) community. #BiWeek draws attention to the experiences, while also celebrating the resiliency of, the bisexual+ community.

Bisexuals, like anyone else, should be free to be themselves have the relationships with other consenting adults to which they mutually agree, without fear of prosecution, bullying, or discrimination. Bisexuality is not a bad thing. Bisexual people deserve the same rights as anyone else.

We are happy to have bisexual friends and readers. As always, you are welcome to add to what is here by commenting below.

Your Son's Choice in Media Content

Someone recently found this blog searching "My son has started to view incest porn." [This entry has been bumped up because it is still relevant.]

What does it mean that your son is viewing "incest porn"?

There is a wide variety of material that can fall under that category.

1. Are we talking about professionally produced videos, featuring unrelated actors, like the classic "Taboo" movies or the countless more recent offerings?

2. Are we talking about what appears to be amateur or "home made" material with people who purport to actually be related?

3. Are we talking about material that depicts assault/molestation?

The first two categories are wildly and widely popular. There are a lot of people who are watching that or material that portrays fauxcest/nearcest. (There are a lot of people who have actual experience, too.) We generally refer to that as consanguineous sex or consanguinamory to distinguish it from abuse or assault.

While category 3 isn't as popular, it still has a following and as long as we're talking about fiction with consenting actors, there isn't necessarily cause for concern. If he seems to be obsessed with abuse/assault he should probably see a mental health professional for an evaluation.

The rest of this entry will focus on a son who is watching something that falls into the first two categories, which depict consensual consanguineous sex.

Searches That Bring People Here

Below are some searches that have brought people to this blog recently. Searches are often written as questions. If you have questions, you can always submit them by commenting below (you can comment anonymously, if you'd like). You can also email questions to fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com.

We also get a lot of searches for questions directly answered by entries in our FAQ tag. But let's take a look at some of the search phrases and see if we can share some helpful information.

do sisters experiment with each other

Yes. Sisters do experiment and explore with each other. Some do it while young, some of them never stop, and some start later in life. Some sisters go on to have spousal style relationships with each other. It is very common for sisters to experiment with each other while young if they are close in age.

If you are a sister experimenting with your sister, know that you're not alone. This has gone on for literally all of human history and you know others who are doing the same.

can dr. find out mom is incest pregnant

DNA tests are possible, and from those tests, it may be possible to determine if the pregnant person conceived with a close relative; especially if your mom's DNA is also tested. Some of the tests carry medical risks and a pregnant woman can decline them. Medical privacy laws might be overtaken by "mandatory reporting" laws in a specific location, so if you are where sex is illegal between you, don't admit to engaging in such affection.

If you are looking forward to a baby, congratulations to you. Most children born to close relatives are healthy. I'd welcome an email from you.

adult siblings arouse each other

This is much more common than people think. Intentional or not, sometimes siblings arouse each other.

us supreme court rules brother sister marriage

Unfortunately, this is not yet a real story. It was something that made some ripples, but it isn't real. Not yet.

Can step siblings marry

Laws vary from place to place, but in general, I do believe the answer is yes. It is very important to know who stepsiblings are. If "Person A" has a parent who has married the parent - who isn't Person A's parent - of "Person B," Person A and Person B are stepsiblings. This is not to be confused with half siblings, who share a genetic parent.

If you want to marry your stepsibling, congrats on your love and we wish you the best. Please feel free to get in contact.

playing doctor with brother or sister

This is very, very common. It isn't necessarily a sign that there is a problem, as long as no coercion or injury is involved. Most such siblings aren't consanguinamorous post-puberty, although some are.

people who married their aunts

In the US, "aunt" can formally mean:

1) Your parent's sister
2) Your parent's sibling's spouse

Informally, she can be:

3) a more distant relative, or a friend of your parents or family.

Where someone can only be married to one person at a time, number 2 is not possible unless there has been a divorce or death Most US states have laws against number 1. There's no law, but often prejudices, against number 3. However, involvement with an aunt is common enough that everyone knows someone who is or has been. If you've found happiness with your aunt, good for you! It would be great to hear from you via email.

middle age mom in love with her brother

This does happen. Whether it's been an enduring state or a recent development, there are middle aged mothers in love with a brother. Sometimes, after someone has been through relationships and even marriages, they realize that the person they want most is their own sibling. There are also "reunion GSA" situations in which a long-lost (half) sibling is discovered. Being in love is very common in such situations.

If you're in or know about such a situation, I'd welcome contact from you.

mature siblings incest

You're never too old to enjoy consanguineous affection if you mutually agree, even if you have no history of doing so. Are you involved? Again, your emails are welcome.

are polygamy wives bisexual

Of course there are women in polygamous marriages who are bisexual in orientation. Polygamy means being married to more than one person, regardless of gender. It could be a woman married to a man and a woman. What the person doing that search probably meant was whether or not there are women in traditional, polygynous marriages (meaning, women who are married to the same man) who are also having sex with each other. Many people in traditional polygynous marriages are members of a religion that might officially oppose being LGBTQ, but whether or not that's the case, some of the wives in such marriages are bisexual in orientation. Some might be closeted lesbians. There is sex going on between some of them, and that has always happened.

If you're in such a marriage, please email me to talk about it.

This last one is a bit sexually explicit, so if you don't want to read something sexually explicit, move on!

An Addition to the Glossary: Consanguinamorous

I am bumping up this classic entry.

*****

I have made some minor changes to the Glossary, and added a couple of terms. Since this blog began, I have favored the phrase “consanguineous sex” over the word incest to describe consensual sex between close relatives. This has meant writing “consanguineous couples” as opposed to “incestuous couples.”

I now think a better word is the word consanguinamorous. It’s a long word, but it may be useful in describing love or eroticism between close relatives. It implies the inclusion of sexuality, but that may not be so. Consanguineous sex can be expected between those who practice consanguinamory; couples, triads, or quads who are consanguinamorous. Some people would call this “intrafamilial sex” or “hyperendogamy.”

Please note that as always, this is referring to consensual sex, not to sexual assault, rape, statutory rape, child rape, or child molestation.

More Studies Are Needed on Consanguinamory

An important question was asked on this blog's sister Tumblr.

Let's Break the Silence and Bring People Out of the Shadows and Closets

One definition of "taboo" is "a social or religious custom prohibiting or forbidding discussion of a particular practice."

That means it is possible for many people to be doing something and still have it "taboo" in the sense that nobody talks about it, at least not openly or publicly. The problem with not talking about things is that such silence can lead to serious negative consequences.

Thanks to technology, people can search out information about something without having to ask someone they live with or next to, or a teacher.

Want to know the most popular entry for this blog?

It's not even close.

The most popular entry on this blog, by far, is the entry addressing a frequently asked question of "How Common is Consensual Incest (Consanguinamory)? People from all over the world, but especially North America, Europe, India, and Australia, use search engines to answer the question, and those searches bring them here. The geography is no doubt a reflection of the blog being written in English. (Perhaps I should post more translated entries?)

Before going further, let’s make it clear this entry is talking about sex or sex-play or exploration that is consensual (we’ll call it Category S), not anything involving assault, molestation, or coercion (Category X). We shouldn’t have to reiterate that “sex” means consensual, but unfortunately we still do. (It’s not sex if it isn’t consensual, it is assault.)

The volume of searches and visits can't be accounted for solely by curiosity and journalistic or academic research. Some of that volume is from people who are, were, or want to be involved, or think or are certain someone they know is, perhaps even their partner. We know this because of the comments they leave and the messages they send, and all of the other entries they visit after coming to the blog through their initial question.

Based just on searches that invoke the question and other searches that find this blog*, there are a lot of people who have been involved, are involved, or want to be involved sexually or romantically, or want to be married to, someone law or custom forbids as too close of a relative. Yes, some people are completely disgusted by the thought, but clearly there are many who aren't. And some people are unable to hear or read anything about Category S without thinking of Category X, perhaps because they have been assaulted, which is terrible, but we should not avoid talking about sex because of assault. Even if person A is disgusted by the thought persons B and C having sex, or doesn't understand why these people are involved, persons B and C should be free to be together how they mutually agree.