Better Late Than Never

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are, by law, denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law.

The man and woman interviewed below should be free to legally marry, yet they can't, and they could be imprisoned and have their lives ruined if they were outed. They are consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone; why should they be denied their rights? In much of the world, including all but a a few US states, they could be criminally prosecuted for their love

Read the interview below and see for yourself what they have to say. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic and romantic, but whatever your reaction, should these lovers be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

WARNINGS: Mildly explicit sexuality. 

*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourselves.

L: I'm a 30 year old white male, I live in the UK and I work in finance. I'm six feet tall, in good shape, brown hair and eyes. I met my ex-wife when we were at school and had our eldest child when I was 14. Supportive parents on both sides meant we both finished school. I went on to university. We got married as soon as we could and lived with my Grandma V and Grandad, who has since passed. We have four children but separated just as I was graduating uni. We remain friends. 

V: I'm 79. Soon to be 80. I am as healthy as expected, although I long for my younger years. I was a secretary all my working life and was married for 38 years to my husband. I love him dearly and miss him everyday. We had a wonderful life together. I was devastated when he passed away. We had two children together; our oldest is L's mother.

FME: How would you describe your sexual orientations and your relationship orientations?

L: I'm hetero. I have had experiences with men but am firmly straight. I've had quite a few partners. Something I deeply regret was being very unfaithful to my ex-wife. I enjoy sex and have always embraced new things.

V: I'm heterosexual. I have always had a sense of guilt about sexual things. My husband was the only man I had slept with until L. As our relationship grew, my attitudes and desire changed. I now enjoy sex, and find it very pleasurable. Sex with my husband, with hindsight, wasn't very good. It was more of a duty to me. I enjoyed making him feel good and assumed it was just the way, but I now realize there is a whole world of pleasure and feelings people in love can explore.

FME: You currently live with...?

V:  Each other, L's children are also here regularly.

FME: You are genetic maternal grandmother and grandson?

V: I am his mother's mother. It was a lot to comprehend.

L: I want to add that for both of us it was a lot to get our head around. General society isn't exactly supportive about our kind of relationship. Until I realized she felt the same, I thought I was disgusting or enlightened. I was really torn.

FME: What was your childhood like? What was family life like? Were alternative lifestyles/sex discussed in your family, and if so, how? Can you describe your sexual awakening? When and how did you realize your sexual orientation?

V: I had a tumultuous childhood. My father was deeply affected by the war and developed alcoholism. He became a different man; violent, abusive etc. My mother was a very strong and not very maternal woman. We ran away from him after a particularly horrid incident and moved far away. My mother had a long term relationship with a new man and things were better. Very strict and traditional home, taught to cover up, virtue, etc. I was punished once for coming home with my school skirt too high up, for instance. Sex was never talked about.

I guess my awakening would be my wedding night. I knew very little except that we would spend that night together. My mother had a talk with me, but in hindsight she knew about as much as I did. The thing I remember most, because it terrified me, was when she said he might want to put his member in my mouth. The night was awful, painful and affected me for a very long time. We didn't know anything and it left me feeling guilty, sad and sore. We got better at it but I now realize we missed out on a whole part of our relationship. I find that deeply depressing.

L: I had a lovely childhood, great parents, great family. My family were open about nakedness and bodies but nothing untoward. If we had questions we could ask. My parents had a healthy sex life; I heard them a lot. It was a running joke.

I was sexual pretty early, partly due to an unfortunate period of molestation. I first discovered girls when I was around ten. Typical exploration type stuff. Lost my virginity to my now ex. 

I had a spell of being convinced I was gay, probably due to the aforementioned. It lasted a short while but when I first slept with my ex I knew I was straight.

FME: How did sexual affection become a part of your relationship?

L: I will go first as for me it was much earlier. As a teen I used to masturbate over lots of things I felt I shouldn't. Teenage hormones, I guess. I would fantasize about V as she is very buxom and if I even caught a glimpse of her cleavage, which was very, very rare, I'd be straight off to satisfy myself. As soon as I finished the guilt and shame would hit me.

When my now ex-wife and I moved in the attraction grew. I would try and let her see me after a shower or whenever, and was always trying to see more of her. I would seek out her underwear in the laundry. At this time, the shame and self disgust was immense but so was the lust. I did things I'm still ashamed of. I've told V everything and she assures me its OK, but I crossed lines.

Over time it was more than lust. I was falling in love with her. I felt a lot less shame but also felt there was something wrong with me. After my ex moved out I made a terrible move on V. I was very drunk and made a complete arse of myself. I moved out for a while after.

She asked me to move home, said she missed me, and I did so straight away. I was heartbroken not being there. Things were different. I was sure she was being different but convinced myself I was imagining it. At this time, we were everything a couple is minus anything sexual. I was a bit of a mess, wanting so much more, but terrified. I went to kiss her goodbye one morning and she turned her head, our lips touched for a second. All that day it was all I thought of. I apologized at dinner and she said it was OK, that she liked. That was the start of a very slow, natural progression.

V: I had always admired L but in a completely familial way. He is a handsome man and as he grew older I appreciated that but very much in a grandma way. I always took his staring to be one of platonic love and I felt happy and privileged to have such a bond with my grandson. When they moved in, I saw him as a man for the first time and was immensely proud of him. The first remotely sexual thing was I noticed that I began to feel aroused when I heard them in bed. I put it down to loneliness and would enjoy listening but also felt guilt. I had never touched myself and didn't but I felt conflicting emotions of joy at their love, arousal  and shame.

The night L mentioned is complicated in my mind. He was very drunk and behaved very badly but it also opened my mind. He got into my bed and cuddled me, it felt nice and I knew how badly the split was hurting him. I felt him getting an erection and told him to go to his bed. He eventually left but the whole incident was very strange and awkward. That's when I started to think of him differently.

The first kiss was intended. It took a long time to decide it was right. By then I knew I loved him in a new way and I felt very differently about him. It felt right and wrong, but I didn't see him as my grandson anymore. The kiss confirmed in my mind that we were in love and I felt excited in a way I never had.

FME: Can you describe your feelings during that process? How were things “the day” after?

L: After the kiss I was terrified. What if she regretted it, felt differently, would we ever kiss again? But from then on it was very natural. The hardest part was forcing myself to always let her take the lead. I knew what I wanted but didn't want to push anything. I would occasionally get a rush of realization of the situation but would push negativity away. I was most worried about someone finding out but would remind myself there was no reason anyone would.

Sexual acts came quite a bit later. We hadn't talked about it and I didn't know if we ever would do anything more. It was gradual; kissing more, cuddles, fondling. V has a lot of inhibitions due to her upbringing, and it took a while for her to get past them. We started sharing a bed and our first sexual experience was cuddling that progressed. It was natural, but also uncomfortable. The passion was intense until I tried to enter her. We hadn't accounted for certain things and had to stop. We talked openly about it for the first time and things got a lot better.

V: For me it was very complicated. I was very conflicted. Taking time allowed me to work out my feelings and reservations. I couldn't understand how I could feel this way. I felt guilty for what we were doing and also for not giving L what he desired.

I'd never been someone who enjoyed sex or particularly wanted it, but for the first time in my life I found myself wanting to. It was all very new and, in a way, quite alarming. I was imagining us being together.

That first night threw me, but after we talked I felt a lot better. We took things slowly and built back up to it. L is so patient and understanding. It's part of why I love him. 

FME: Before this had you ever thought this would be possible or enjoyable; did you have any opinion one way or the other about close relatives or family members being together? Do you, or have you had feelings like this for any other close family members whether they are genetic relatives or not? 

V: I'd never thought about it or had an opinion.  L's the second love of my life and the only man I've ever wanted that way.

L: It was fantasy to me and I felt I was disturbed, in all honesty. I now firmly believe that mutual love is beautiful regardless of anything. As I mentioned, I've had many fantasies and attractions but I'd never be unfaithful to V.

FME: What about this age difference; did either of you have feelings for, or experience with, someone with a similar age difference before?

L: Nothing close, but not through lack of attraction. I think my only issue is time.

V: No, and I agree, time is the only issue. I do wish he could have seen me at my best though.

FME: How do you describe the lovemaking now? Taboo? Natural? Especially erotic? 

V: For me it is incredible. So many experiences I didn't even know about. I find it to be honest and passionate. I no longer feel any guilt or shame. L makes me feel wanted, loved and attractive. He has opened my world and I look forward to many more years.

L: I want to point out that our relationship is far more than just the sexual side. I love V more than I thought possible.

I agree with V, and for me it is the most intense attraction. There is an element of the taboo and we have our moments. Mostly though it's making love, it's sensual and deep. I've loved showing V new things, pleasuring her in new ways. It's a privilege, in all honesty.

FME: Describe your relationship now. Is this a marriage, a union, girlfriend and boyfriend, relatives-with-benefits, or what? 

L: We live as a couple. We just have to be discreet at times. My grandma is someone I remember from before, V is my partner. We've been together nearly seven years. Longer in my heart.

V: Couldn't have put it better. Although I sometimes struggle with morality. I can talk to L about it though and he is incredible.

FME: Is this relationship closed or are either of you open to new partners? 

V: Closed. I asked L if he wanted to see other women too, I felt like I wasn't enough for him. He said no which was such a relief.

L: Closed, completely. 

FME: Does anyone in your life know the full, true nature of your relationship? What kind of steps, if any, have you had to take to keep your privacy?

L: No one knows. We could never tell them. We keep everything at home unless we're abroad.

FME: Having to hide the full nature of your relationship from some people can be a disadvantage. Can you describe how that has been? Are there any other disadvantages? Conversely, do you think consanguineous relationships have some advantages and some things better than unrelated lovers? Especially with a grandparent or grandchild?

L: It can be very frustrating, I can't just kiss her. I hate having to hide my love for her. I'm not sure there are any particular advantages. We both agree though that there are disadvantages to our specific situation. Having to hide, time and not being able to have a child.

V: For me the biggest is time and I would have loved to have had children with L.

FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship? What's your reply to those who would say that this is one of you preying on the other, and that you can’t truly consent?

V: I would say I don't understand it either but that love can't be wrong. We are adults and I haven't lost my marbles yet!

L: I'd say that you can't choose who you fall in love with, that our relationship is healthier than most and what does it matter anyway?

FME: If you could get legally married, and that included protections against discrimination, harassment, etc., would you? Or is this a different kind of relationship than that?

L: I would marry in an instant.

V: I wouldn't, but only because of my previous marriage. 

FME: What advice do you have for someone who may be experiencing these feelings for a relative or family member, especially a grandparent or grandchild?

L: I think it's complicated, you risk a lot if you get it wrong. If you're sure of how you feel and think they do to, go for it. But be considerate, slow and careful. It can be beautiful but it's also a big risk.

V: What we have is incredible. L went about it the wrong way but I'm grateful he did. However it could have been very different. He could have got in a lot of trouble let alone with the family. Be careful.

FME: What advice do you have for family members and friends who think or know that relatives they know are having these feelings for each other? 

L: It depends on the situation, ages, and more, but if they're adults and capable, leave them alone.

V: As we say, love is love.

FME: Any plans for the future?

V: Keep on adoring L. 

L: The same, I love our life.

*****

Clearly, these lovers are consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone, practically married in every way except the law, and yet they can't even exercise their basic human right to marry, even though they are living as spouses. They are happy and in love, yet they are denied that fundamental right to marry. They can't even be open about their love!

Why should they be denied their rights? There’s no good reason.We need to recognize that all adults should be free to be with any and all consenting adults as they mutually consent, and part of doing that is adopting relationship rights for all, including full marriage equality sooner rather than later. People are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here. As you'll see, there are people from all walks of life who are in consanguinamorous relationships.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.

If you want to be interviewed about your "forbidden" relationship, connect with me by checking under the "Get Connected" tab there at the top of the page or emailing me at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com.

If you know someone who is in a relationship like this, please read this.

Thank you to L and V for doing this interview! We wish you well in your consanguinamorous intergenerational relationship.