We Get Letters From Closeted Lovers

It's always nice to get appreciative feedback, whether via email (fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com) or via the comment feature below. This message came in, and I wish I could share more about this person but this person is exceedingly wary of being identified by anyone who might read this. Given the prejudices, including criminalization (as is the case where this person lives) applied to this loving relationship, I understand.

Here is what was written...

Hi,

I just wanted to thank you for speaking about [consanguinamory] in your blog. It was pretty amazing to read someone openly supporting us.

I myself am in an incestuous relationship but couldn't possibly ever consider speaking out about it. It's totally illegal where I am, and we would probably both be publicly shamed. I live in fear every day of just one person deciding I'm not human and reporting us and having my family and friends abandon me because I'm disgusting to them. I can't even let my partner know because if they thought I was constantly worried, they would leave me thinking it was the better choice.

They've been together for years, and the person who wrote fears "being dragged out of our beds at night and called monsters."

Let's Celebrate!

There is much to celebrate in today's U.S. Supreme Court decision. Let's party!!!

There is also still much work to do. Every adult, regardless of their gender, sexual orientation, rare, or religion, should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with ANY and ALL consenting adults, without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination. Let's build on today's momentum to make a better tomorrow.

Join us:

Have you joined the Facebook group yet? Join "I Support Full Marriage Equality."

You should also like this page, Full Marriage Equality, and we meant that.

Are we Facebook friends? I want to be friends with all who support full marriage equality and relationship rights for all adults. Here I am.

Are we connected on Twitter? Here I am.

Are we connected on Tumblr? Here I am.

If you don't want to connect, still feel free to send me a note. I can be reached at fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com

Comedic Consanguinamory

At sheknows.com, Deirdre Kaye reviews "Another Period," a show on Comedy Central. Here is what is relevant to this blog...

Another Period has already rightfully earned comparisons to Keeping Up with the Kardashians and Downton Abbey. But claiming that the new hit comedy is a mash-up of the two just doesn't do it justice. At the end of the first 30 minutes, one thing is abundantly different about Another Period: It's actually entertaining. I'm not hating. KUWTK and Downton are both enthralling shows. It's easy to get caught up in the people-watching aspect of KUWTK and even easier to get sucked into the drama on Downton. But there's something missing from those two gems that is easily found in Another Period.

My best guess as to what it is? Comedy... and incest.

Actually, the Kardashians have had themes of consanguinamory in their media.

Before the second commercial break, the "scandal" and silliness were underway when Lady Beatrice Bellacourt and Frederick (Jason Ritter) found themselves together in a bedroom. For the first time all day, they were finally "alone." By alone, of course, they meant in a room where each wall was lined with servants. The absurdity continued when Beatrice whimpered about not understanding why they couldn't be together and Frederick reminded her that they were brother and sister. That didn't stop them from throwing down on the bed, though. At least, you know, after Beatrice was undressed for Frederick by her servants and then Frederick's keepers did the same for him. It was a long, awkward process, but Ritter had no problem acting up his arousal as his sister's dress was painstakingly tugged off her lithe frame. The ridiculousness of it all was brilliantly played out by Ritter and Riki Lindhome (Beatrice), which made the whole thing even funnier.

I can understand playing consanguinamory for laughs, but I do look forward to respectful depictions. Respectful depictions can also involve comedy, as in romantic comedies, and there can be much humor in pointing out the emptiness of objections people have to other adults having a consanguinamorous relationship. What's definitely not funny is how people in such relationships are treated.

Round it out with the sisters' husbands (who are cheating on them with each other), their sassy butler (played by Michael Ian Black) and the new girl servant, Chair (Christina Hendricks), and this ensemble cast has the makings of a true winner this season.

Please do comment if you watch any episodes.

Polyamorists Among You

Polyamorous people are everywhere.

You DO know polyamorous people. People you go/went to school with (maybe one of your instructors), people you work with, neighbors, maybe that police officer you saw the other day, that person in the minivan driving by... they may even be in your own extended family, not wanting to come out to you.


Some people are polyamorous as who they are, even if they're not in a relationship right now or are only with one person right now.

Many polyamorous people are closeted. Some haven't realized they are polyamorous.

I am very happy that polyamory is being depicted more in the media these days.

The potential problem with people unfamiliar with polyamorists seeing a polyamorous relationship depicted in a television show or news story, a talk show, or in a newspaper, magazine, or website article is that they may think, "Ah, now I know exactly what polyamory is like!" That would be like an extraterrestrial watching one fast food advertisement or chef competition television show and saying, "Ah,  now I know exactly what meals look like on Earth!" There is so much variety. Media coverage and depictions will have to be increased for more people to get that.

There could be a polyfidelitous family living very close to you, and you don't even know it because they seem like any other average household nearby, just with more than two adults. If there are three adults, perhaps you thought two of them were blood relatives. You could be right, and it could still be a polyamorous home.

We're everywhere.

Equality For All, Not Just Some

At socratichomer.wordpress.com, an argument by someone identified as Madman of Chu in regards to marriage equality is examined...

Madman’s claim is that marriage equality is guaranteed by the 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution.

There's more than one way to get there, but this is one of the popular ways.

Madman further implies a claim of definition to identify how Marriage should be identified; specifically, that Marriage consists of two persons only.

I don't see where the Constitution says that. Oh, that's right, it doesn't. 

Finally, he puts forth a claim of policy, writing, “We should not confuse the time when a law became unconstitutional with the point at which it “became” wrong.”

It is that particular sentence which presents the best argument for legal recognition of all nontraditional forms of marriage (same sex, polygamous and incestuous). If laws against same sex marriage were wrong before courts decided they were unconstitutional, then there is a very real possibility that laws against polygamous and incestuous marriage are equally wrong, though not yet determined to be unconstitutional.

We agree, and it is our position that laws denying consenting adults the freedom to marry are unjust. They are also hurtful and wasteful.

If so, are we truly on the right side of history when advocating marriage equality for traditional and same sex couples while refusing to do the same for polygamous and incestuous couples?

Good question (although I would not have worded it exactly like that.) The answer is no. The right side of history is full marriage equality. Someone may not like the idea of interracial, same-gender, polygamous, or consanguineous marriages, but their disgust or lack of understanding or religious doctrines should not prevent other people from having the marriages to which they mutually consent.

Here to Help

This blog is here to help. We're here to help people get their rights, we're here to help open minds, we're here to let people they are not alone.

I am contacted by people who let me know this blog is succeeding. Every once in a while though, someone will reach out and then writing back to them proves difficult. For example, someone contacted me on Facebook within the past day and wanted to have a conversation, but I'm unable to write back to her for reasons that may be her doing or Facebook's.

I can be reached through Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/fullmarriageequality and I do check my "Other" folder. But your settings have to allow me to write back, or you have to include an email address in your message, or I won't be able to respond to you.

I can be reached at fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com, which is often better than Facebook.

You can also reach us by using the comment form below, but if you do not want your comment published, be sure to say so in your comment. Comments have to be approved before they will appear on the blog.

Looking forward to hearing from you, whatever your reason for writing to me.

Blog Recommendation

If you like this blog, you should check out The Final Manifesto on blogspot as well.

Do you know other blogs like ours? Meaning (mostly) Safe For Work supporters of full marriage equality? Do tell!

How Polyamorous People Can Find Dates

Various cultural elements lead people to believe that most, if not all people, are looking for monogamy, or that monogamy is ideal. Ours laws discriminate against people who aren't monogamists. This means that polyamorous people often have to "come out" as such.

At psychologytoday.com, there's a helpful piece by Elisabeth A. Sheff Ph.D about coming out to a potential "sweetie" as poly.

Many long-time polyamorists exclusively date other experienced polys, skirting the issue of coming out or explaining polyamory by avoiding relationships with monogamous people and those trying their first open relationship.

It should be noted that some polyamorous relationships are not open, but if a poly person is dating (or trying to) someone "new" it means a relationship is open at least enough for this person, if not all involved, to add a new sweetie. Some poly people are looking to add a sweetie who will only be with them, some are looking for a sweetie who will be with more than one of them, some are looking for other sweeties, too, and some want sweeties who will continue to be open to being with others outside of the polycule. There are many, many ways these things can go.

1. Date Polyamorous People

Fortunately, there is a grown presence of online communities for polyamorous people, and some dating services allow you to indicate you are polyamorous. This is one way of finding people who are already polyamorous or looking for a polyamorous partner.

2. Reconnaissance

If your social situation requires more discretion, you might want to move a little slower. The task of introducing the idea of polyamory to a current or potential sweetie can be intimidating. Find out about how the person feels about sexual diversity before bringing it up in a personal sense.

Paying attention to what people say and don't say, and how, when discussing certain topics can help one infer some important things about how someone is likely to react to someone coming out as poly to them.

There's much more at the link, so check it out your if you're at all interested.

Nobody, polyamorous or not, should assume a relationship is monogamous. Conditions like that are determined by explicit mutual consent. Nobody should agree to, or promise monogamy if it isn't a reasonable likelihood they are going to be monogamous.

Adults Sent to Federal Prison For Loving Each Other

Although about half of the states in the U.S. and many countries will legally marry (heterosexual) first cousins, South Dakota is one of the few states that still has criminal laws against first cousins having sex. Several news outlets are reporting on the prosecution of a couple of consenting adults for having sex. Here's a report from todayskccr.com...

A La Plant man and woman have been convicted of incest.

28 year old Nicholas White Eagle was sentenced to one year and one day in federal custody, followed by one year of supervised release. 22 year old Fawn Scott was sentenced to 4 months in custody, followed by 2 years of supervised release.

Federal custody for consensual sex. Between adults.

Winning Rights for the Polyamorous

Professor of Law Hadar Aviram has some advice for polyamorists who want their rights recognized and protected, pointing to the success of those seeking the limited same-gender freedom to marry. She references the Supreme Court's recent move to deny review, without comment, the state court decisions overturning bans on same-gender marriages. Then writes...

Shortly after the first San Francisco round of same-sex marriages in 2004 I interviewed polyamorous activists, who at the time expressed little interest in legal activism... More recently, however, with the success of marriage equality, the community is exhibiting more interest in legal recognition of polyamorous relationships. 

As I've said before, the only thing all polyamorous people have in common is that they are people and they are polyamorous. Some polyamorous people do not care about marriage equality in general, or government documentation of (their) relationships. Some do not care about marriage at all, even just ceremonial. Others very much want the polyamorous or polygamous freedom to marry and other protections for their rights.

Some of this renewed interest in legal mobilization is inspired by same-sex marriage, and some of it relates to the increased public visibility of polyamory; nonmonogamous relationships have been highlighted on several popular television shows, like Big Love, Sister Wives, and Polyamory: Married and Dating.

Momentum and visibility help. Aviram notes the incremental path to the limited same-gender freedom to marry, then adds...

Clearly, polyamorous activists are not solely benefitting from the success of the marriage equality struggle; they also have to overcome the hurdles that success has created for them. If their success is to follow a similar pattern, there may be other victories, in areas of adoption, custody and employment discrimination, that need to be won first. And a crucial component of their struggle’s success would be a significant improvement in public opinion of nonmonogamous relationships, which is complicated by anti-Mormon and anti-Islamist sentiments.

I've written about this before under Why Polyamory Will Gain Acceptance Faster and How You Can Help.

One way we're going to win full marriage equality is by getting people to remove that invisible asterisk. Of course, it would be nice if the Supreme Court made a definitive move for national civil rights.

Jumping Legal Hurdles in Pennsylvania

Dealing with discrimination has prompted some people to have to settle, at least temporarily, for various legal work-arounds for their relationships. One example is that some gay or lesbian lovers have done adult adoptions of their partners.

From natlawreview.com is this report that a same-gender couple who once underwent adoption are now married.

Before the recent changes affecting the rights of same-sex couples, the legal recognitions available to same-sex couples were limited. One of the avenues followed by estate planning attorneys to allow for some sort of legal recognition to same-sex couples was adoption. Norman MacArthur and Bill Novak are one of the couples who went that route. They have been a couple for over 50 years.

Fifty years! Wow!

While living in New York, the couple registered as domestic partners in 1994. Upon moving to Bucks County, Pennsylvania, they learned that their domestic partnership would not be honored under the laws of the State of Pennsylvania. In seeking to have a legally recognized relationship, they were advised that their only option was to go through adoption proceedings. So, they did just that. Bill became the legal father to Norman. Bill is two years older than Norman.

 That shouldn't have been necessary, but there you go.

In 2014, however, the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania decided the case of Whitewood v. Wolf and, thereby, declared the marriage laws of the State of Pennsylvania, the very laws that had prevented the couple from marrying long ago, to be unconstitutional. Soon thereafter, Mr. MacArthur and Mr. Novak sought to formally marry; however, their previous adoption was standing in the way. So, they began legal proceedings to have the adoption vacated. On May 14, 2015, Judge Gary B. Gilman of the Orphans Court of Bucks County, Pennsylvania entered an order vacating their adoption decree and, as a result, allowing them the freedom to marry.

They should have been free to marry without having to vacate the adoption. What would have been the harm of allowing them to marry with the adoption intact? It was another hurdle they had to clear for no good reason. That's time, effort, and money spent by them because of prejudice.

We can make things simple by having nationwide full marriage equality. If a state offers marriages, domestic partnerships, civil unions, or any other agreements between consenting adults, those agreements should be available to all adults, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion. An adult should be free to marry any and all consenting adults. That's the simple and fair way to treat adults equally.

Utah Still Defends Criminalizing Polyfidelity

Utah leaders are sill defending their criminalization of polyfidelity, a particularly egregious violation of the freedom of association of consenting adults. Here's an Associated Press article from abcnews.go.com by Lindsay Whitehurst...

Utah state attorneys defending the state's anti-polygamy law argue it should stay on the books because it protects women and children from abuse.

Really? Are women and children more protected in Utah than every other state?

The Utah Attorney General is appealing a ruling striking down key provisions of the law in the case of Kody Brown and his four wives, stars of the reality TV show "Sister Wives." The state says in newly filed court documents that monogamous marriage is an important social unit and court rulings dating back to 1878 have upheld laws against polygamy.

"The United States Constitution does not protect the practice of polygamy as a fundamental right," state attorney Parker Douglas wrote.

We will see about that. Criminalization of consensual adult relationships has been struck down by the Supreme Court in case after case.

Brown family attorney Jonathan Turley countered Monday that the state's evidence of widespread abuse in polygamous communities is scant and the Browns show such unions can be healthy.

"As with monogamous families, the state has ample laws to prosecute individuals for abuse or other crimes," Turley said in an email to The Associated Press.

Exactly. Domestic violence and child abuse are criminal under other laws. Decriminalizing polyfidelity will actually make it easier to prosecute abuse.

The state is requesting oral argument in the case and Turley is preparing his response. He has said the family is prepared to take the legal fight to the U.S. Supreme Court if necessary.

I would love for the Court to take care of the issue this month in ruling on other cases.

Utah is appealing a 2013 ruling that struck down key provisions of the state's anti-polygamy law.

U.S. District Judge Clark Waddoups decided that a provision of the state law forbidding cohabitation violated the polygamous Brown family's freedom of religion.

It also violated other basic rights adults have.

If the ruling stands, Utah's law would be like most other states that prohibit people from having multiple marriage licenses. In most polygamous families, the man is legally married to one woman but only "spiritually married" to the others.

They should all be free to legally marry. But until then, they shouldn't be denied their right to be together unmarried.

The teaching that polygamy brings exaltation in heaven is a legacy of the early Mormon church, but the mainstream Salt Lake City-based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints abandoned the practice in 1890 and strictly prohibits it today.

Many other groups citing Mormon heritage support polygyny.

An adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults, without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination. That's full marriage equality.

Arub Syed Looks at a Taboo

This report by Arub Syed at desiblitz.com is all over the map and an example of why terminology is important.  It is under the headline of "The Issue of Incest in Asian Society."

But early examples of incest relate as far back as Ancient Greece, where myths spoke of incestuous relations between brothers and sisters. Incestuous marriages were also a norm in the royal houses of Japan and Korea throughout the Middle Ages.

In the Indian state of Haryana, cases of incest have become widely reported. In 2010, a man in his 50’s was found having sexual relations with his married 30-year-old daughter for almost a year. Other similar cases uncover how deep this taboo is rooted within Asian culture.

They were consenting adults. Whether her spouse consented to nonmonogamy, this report doesn't say.