Two Women Who Are Still Denied a Wedding

We have another exclusive interview to bring you. 

People in consanguinamorous relationships are everywhere, though consanguinamorists tend to be closeted. Fortunately, some are willing to be interviewed for this blog. As a result, Full Marriage Equality has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law. Most can’t even be out of the closet or they’ll face persecution and prosecution under absurd incest laws, which, instead of focusing on abuse, also target consensual relationships.

The women interviewed below should be free to legally and publicly marry each other, or simply be together without having to hide, yet they can’t. Prejudice can be deadly. They are consenting adults; why should they have been denied their rights? In much of the world, they could be criminally prosecuted for loving each other this way, and might be persecuted severely in addition.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what they have to say about the love they share. You may think this relationship is interesting, or it might make you uncomfortable, or you might find it ideal, even highly erotic, but whatever your reaction, should lovers like these be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights simply because they love each other this way?

Also please note that someone you love, respect, and admire could be in a similar relationship right now. Should they be attacked and denied rights because of the "incest" label? 

NOTE: This interview has a brief amount of sexually explicit description.

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FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourselves. 

Anna: I'm Anna. I was born in 1990 in Klagenfurt am Wörthersee in the Austrian state of Carinthia with my twin sister. We are the only two children of our parents, who are both entrepreneurs.

Our family moved to the Waldviertel in Lower Austria when I was a child, where we went to school. From 2008 to 2012 I studied law in Vienna and got my Magister Juris, then I studied art history in the same place from 2013 to 2016 and graduated with a Bachelor of Arts. I first worked there as a university assistant in the Institute for Constitutional and Administrative Law, but then went into political work.

From January 2014, I worked as a consultant for constitutional and human rights in the parliamentary group of the classical liberal Austrian party NEOS. From then on, I turned to political journalism and after a few escapades, I worked as a journalist for various large companies.

At the moment, I work for a large German media company in Berlin.

My hobbies are libertarian political activism, but also literature and partying. I like to be active and busy and live a very libertine lifestyle. 

Lisa: Well, the beginning of my life is of course the same as that of my twin sister. But I studied comparative literature and art history in Vienna right from the start and initially worked in galleries and art halls, then I started writing for music magazines and now I work for a public music station in Vienna. 

FME: Are you married or have you ever been legally and/or ceremonially married?

Lisa: No, we are not married according to our law. We have not had a ceremony or anything like that so far. A marriage would not be possible in Austria or Germany.

FME: How would you describe your gender(s)? How would you describe your sexual orientation and your relationship orientation?

Anna: I was born a woman and identify as such. I would describe myself as bisexual because I have had, and still have sex, with men. As a woman, however, only Lisa.

Nevertheless, this description fits quite well.

I am also very classically monogamous. The relationship with Lisa is my exclusive, committed relationship and I do not plan on having parallel relationships. 

Lisa: I describe myself as a pansexual cis woman. I have had nice experiences with men, women and non-binary people. And I agree with Anna, I only have a committed relationship with her and have no desire for other romances. 


FME: You currently live with...?

Lisa: I live in Vienna with Anna in a condo. No one else lives with us. 

Anna: Exactly. I also have a one-room apartment in Berlin, which I live there part-time because I sometimes have to be in Berlin for work. I usually work from home, but sometimes I have to be there. 


FME: You are in a sexual/romantic relationship with your identical twin? 

Anna: Yes. We live together as a couple and see ourselves as one. We have sex and love each other. Sometimes it's almost Hollywood-like. It's been like that for a long time.

FME: What was your childhood like? Can you describe your sexual awakening? When and how did you realize your sexual orientation?

Anna: Our family was a Catholic middle-class family, which in some ways was straight out of the book. We lived in a house in the suburbs. A mother, a father, two children and a dog.

Our parents are very conservative and politically Christian Democrats. People are quite tolerant of sexual orientations, but sex has remained a taboo.

I learned about my sexual orientation through celebrity crushes. I found singers and Hollywood stars sexy and knew I was bisexual because I had had sexual adventures with various classmates since I was 13. Sometimes Lisa and I had sex with the same boys. But I had never been with another woman except Lisa.

Lisa: I can only repeat our family description. I realized my pansexuality when I fell in love with a classmate when I was 16. And I should also add that our parents accepted my girlfriend. I only say that because I don't want the word conservative to be misunderstood. At the time I still called it bisexual because I didn't know anything else. I only found out about the term pansexual later. Anna and I discovered our sexuality together, and talked about crushes and things like that. I had my first experience when I was 13 with a boy from my class who Anna had been with before. So I knew that I wasn't a lesbian. But I had already tried to build up more solid relationships earlier, while Anna was more interested in looser things.

FME: How did sexual affection become a part of the relationship?

Anna: I can't really answer that question. It was definitely a gradual process that was really fluid.

As twin sisters you are always physically close. Cuddling was normal from the start and so was kissing. At some point the kissing turned into proper smooching, at some point later our hands wandered over our bodies, at some point we touched and fingered each other and at some point we licked each other. The sex became more intense.

There was no point where we were suddenly a couple and f—-ed.

I knew it was forbidden and definitely had to stay between us, but I never felt bad or weird. I always found my sister attractive though. She had a great body and of course I noticed that. I also believe that I have always had romantic feelings for Lisa, I have always loved her. And it was more a question of whether I recognized this love as such.

Lisa: I can only agree with that. The romantic feelings were always there. Anna is the person I love the most and that has always been the case. At some point it was up to me to realize that this was not normal sibling love, but almost fairytale romantic love. But our sexual experiences developed gradually. We discovered our sexuality together and masturbated together or masturbated even when the other person was in the room. Then we got closer over a longer period of time. When we were 19 and decided that we were now a real couple and would orient our lives accordingly, we were already having regular sex with each other. So it was little by little and there wasn't really a "first".

FME: Can you describe your feelings during that process?

Anna: As I said, we never felt that it was bad or gross. We knew the legal situation and it was our secret, but it was fine. For me, it actually felt very right. I always liked sex with Lisa better than my hookups with classmates or with my first boyfriend. As Lisa said, we decided to be a couple when we were 19. I never slept better and the day after I woke up with a feeling of rightness. We didn't decide this out of nowhere, it was more like saying what had been a fact for a long time. I carried it with confidence. I have an incestuous romantic relationship and that's just how it was.

Lisa: Agreed. I loved her and I always love her. We have been together since we were 19 and it is the best feeling ever.

FME: Before this had you ever thought this would be possible or enjoyable; did you have any opinion one way or the other about close relatives or family members being together?

Anna: I never really thought about it before. I couldn't imagine it. I have to admit, though, that as a teenager I was quite an anarchist and I preached free love and always stressed that incest was part of that. Maybe that contributed to the fact that I had no problem sleeping with Lisa. I've never had feelings for other family members before, let alone had any experiences. For heaven's sake, I couldn't have anything with my parents. That's just the way it is.

Lisa: I wasn't an AnCap like my dear sister, but rather shy and nerdy. I knew what my sister thought about incest and I just kind of went with the flow. Let people do what they want, I thought. Exactly, nothing happened with others and I never felt anything either.

FME: How do you describe the sex now?

Lisa: We describe the sex as natural. We sleep together like a couple sleeps together, in a marital bed, and we do it very often. But sometimes we do it kinky and play with the taboo. We like to call ourselves dirty for sleeping with our respective sisters. It's not inherently kinky, though, only when we make it that way.

FME: Describe your relationship now. Do you see each other as sisters, or lovers, or are those two roles inseparable at this point?

Anna: We already see our relationship as a marriage. We love each other, live together, cook for each other, and pay bills together. There was never a ceremony or a point at which we are married "from now on." That's why we always say our marriage ceremony was our birth. We refer to each other as our wives and use sister and wife interchangeably depending on the context, so that it is clear to those who know and unclear to those who don't that we are talking about the same person. For us, there is no separation. We are obviously twin sisters and we are "married." There is no contradiction and therefore no reason to separate. We've been together since we were 19, so 15 years.

FME: Do any of you or all of you together ever involve anyone else? How does that happen? Are these people you know or someone you pick up for a hook up, or something else, like swinging? If there have been other lovers since you got together, did those lovers know about the relation and how did they react?

Anna: Over the past 15 years, we have opened up our marriage from time to time and will definitely do so again. Especially when I have to be in Berlin for a longer period of time, I have sex with friends, colleagues or one-night stands here and there. I also take advantage of this more than Lisa. But it depends on the situation and need. The end goal here is the future of our marriage. If opening up is good for it, we open it and if it is bad, we close it. Lisa is my purpose in life and everything I do is for her benefit and the benefit of our marriage.

Lisa: Yes, we sleep with other people from time to time. I do it less often than Anna, but it is always with mutual consent. But we rarely have the same hookups so that they don't find out about our relationship. So if they haven't found out about it before, they've never found out.

FME: A threesome with identical twins has been somewhat fetishized and is considered a common fantasy. Many people who have a negative reaction to consensual incest conversely find this idea to be arousing. What are your thoughts on that?

Anna: I know that people fetishize sex between twin sisters. I have to admit, I like to turn people on. I've already got Lisa to make out in a club while drunk and drive the men around us crazy. That doesn't always work, but when you're very drunk, it works. There was a friend of ours with whom we once had a threesome. He had known about our relationship for a long time and once told us, also drunk, that he had a fantasy of watching us, which happened that same evening. Later, we invited him to have sex and he went along with it. But otherwise it really rarely happens.

Lisa: I can't talk about it without blushing and I'll let what Anna says stand for itself.

FME: Does anyone in your life know the full, true nature of your relationship and how did they find out? How have they reacted? What kind of steps, if any, have you had to take to keep your privacy?

Lisa: Our family has no clue and that's a good thing. But our entire circle of friends knows. They are made up of libertarians, AnCaps and left-liberals and therefore all people who want to legalize our kind of relationship. Of course they were surprised, but also accepting. We are completely secretive in our public work. We don't let it show at all. To our parents we are normal siblings.

FME: Having to hide the full nature of your relationship from some people can be a disadvantage. Can you describe how that has been? Are there any other disadvantages? Conversely, do you think consanguineous relationships have some advantages and some things better than unrelated lovers, especially for twins?

Anna: Well, I can never show off my wife. No double dates with colleagues and constant questions about when I'll get a partner. I have to hide my feelings and can never openly display them. I often feel the urge to just shout it out loud: "I love my twin sister!" Holding hands in public is fine, but our kinship is obvious, so I always feel sad watching couples who can openly kiss each other. More power to them, but I want that too. The advantage of a relationship between relatives is that you know each other from the start. No boring dating or getting-to-know phases. We were together in the womb. I know no one better than Lisa.

Lisa: I'd like to add that it feels like loving doubly. I love Anna as my twin sister, and I love Anna as my wife. Two feelings at once, and that makes it something special.

FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship? What's your reply to those who would say that this is one of you preying on the other, and that you can’t truly consent?

Anna: Well, we are the same age, so no one could accuse us of preying on each other. But such accusations make me very upset. We're talking about adult individuals here. If someone says that true consent isn't possible in our relationship, they're denying adults the right to make their own decisions. It's a totalitarian mindset. People don't recognize this because it's just a pretext for the politics of disgust, which makes me furious. I love my sister, and if I can no longer be with her, my purpose in life would fade. That's what the politics of disgust wants to do to me.

FME: If you could get legally married, and that included protections against discrimination, harassment, etc., would you? Or is this a different kind of relationship than that?

Anna: Yes, absolutely! I would love to be able to call my wife "wife" under public law as well. This requires a libertarian marriage law.

Lisa: Oh yes, I want a ring on my finger, a white wedding dress, and a carriage ride! Anna is my wife, and we should have that legally recognized too.

FME: What advice do you have for someone who may be experiencing these feelings for a relative or family member, especially a twin?

Anna: I can't give a precise answer. The situation around consanguineous love is so tense that I believe each individual must decide for themselves. But one thing I want to emphasize: your feelings are valid. The state and society have the problem, not you. You're just a person in love.

Lisa: Especially with a twin, I would suggest bringing it up slowly. Twins often have feelings that correspond with each other. And if the twin doesn't reciprocate the feelings, the bond between them is strong enough that there won't be any discrimination or hostility.

FME: What advice do you have for family members and friends who think or know that relatives they know are having these feelings for each other?

Anna: Let them be. They know what's best for themselves.

Lisa: It's love! Support them and show that you are tolerant. Be a safe space for them.

FME: Do you consider yourself consanguinamorous in orientation, or could you be fulfilled in a relationship with someone who isn’t a close relative?

Lisa: No, we only love each other. Neither of us has feelings for other family members or anyone else.

FME: Any plans for the future?

Anna: Keep going. I would try to educate the most tolerant people about us and continue to fight as activists for the legalization and recognition of incestuous couples. I wouldn't tell my parents. They will die conservative; you can't change that.

Lisa: Live our life. We have work, we have a marriage, we have friends, we have hobbies. All of this needs to be maintained, and the state can't stop us from doing that.

FME: Anything else to add?

Anna: Normally, I would just say "taxation is theft" in moments like this, but I'm really glad this worked out and I'm answering seriously. Thank you for the interview!

Lisa: Make love not war could be said here. I was very happy to do this! Thank you for the interview.

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Clearly, these are consenting adults, and yet they can't even exercise their basic human rights as things are now. They are happy, yet they are denied fundamental rights. They can't even be open about their love without risking harassment or much worse.

Why should they be denied their rights? There’s no good reason. We need to recognize that all adults should be free to be with any and all consenting adults as they mutually consent, and part of doing that is adopting relationship rights for all, including full marriage equality sooner rather than later. People are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here. As you'll see, there are people from all walks of life, around the world, who are in consanguinamorous relationships.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.

If you want to be interviewed about your "forbidden" relationship, or that of someone you know, connect with me by checking under the "Get Connected" tab there at the top of the page or emailing me at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com or on Wire messaging app at fullmarriageequality, X/ Twitter at FullMEquality, or Facebook. I usually check for private/direct messages and respond in less than a day, so if I don't it might mean your message didn't get delivered.

If you know someone who is in a relationship that's anything like this, or "taboo" or "forbidden," please read this.

Thank you, Anna and Lisa, for telling us about your consanguinamorous relationship. We wish you well!