Ask someone who invokes Discredited Argument #18 if they drop opposition when it comes to a relationship that will not create biological children, such as two cisgender brothers, or a sister with a brother who has had a vasectomy, or siblings over the age of 60. Most will be stumped or will say no, they still oppose such relationships, perhaps citing another Discredited Argument, probably #1 or 3.
Another way of exposing this as a smokescreen is to ask them if they support the same restrictions on an unrelated heterosexual couple in which the woman is 40 years of age.
The fact is, we don't prevent people with known, serious genetic diseases, or who have lived all of their lives in the same neighborhood with pollutants known to cause birth defects, or who have taken medications known to cause birth defects from dating, having sex, marrying, having children, etc., so why deny rights to consanguineous lovers who are more likely to have healthy children together or won't be having children at all?
Everyone knows happy, healthy, intelligent, adorable children born to close relatives, whether they know it or not, and whether the children themselves know of their true biological ancestry or not. I can point to such people whose parents were close relatives. Should they have not been born?
Most children born to consanguineous parents are healthy. That's a fact. We don't hear about that much. Instead, "horror" stories are sensationalized... where a tyrannical patriarch or set of people isolated their family and abused children, engaging in deliberate inbreeding over generations. The problems resulting are often caused by the lack of prenatal care, lack of medical treatment, poor nutrition, physical abuse, substance abuse, poor hygiene, a polluted environment, etc. That's as far removed from what this blog is about (loving relationships between consenting adults) as possible. Cases like that do not justify denying consanguinamorous adults their right to be together in whatever way they want.
Bigotry and restrictions against consanguineous lovers predate a good understanding of genetics. It is just that people now misapply facts about genetics to cover for their dislike of the idea of consanguinamory.
My brother and I have a daughter. She is completely healthy and normal. Honestly, I am really tired of people spreading the ignorance and lies that incest only leads to children with defects.
ReplyDelete-Liz Smith
I've debated with people before on how there is nothing wrong with consensual adult incest, but sadly, most of the people I've debated with are blinded by hate, digust and bigotry.
ReplyDeleteThey usually start off by saying it's wrong and gross and that I'm sick minded or something, then try to justify their bigotry with the arguements like this one.
Even when I discredit their justifications using your arguements, they just won't let go of their bigotry and continue saying that it's wrong.
I wish more people could think like Keith Pullman and not be bigots.
Thanks! We ARE making a difference, thanks to you and others. More people are realizing that everyone should be free to have their relationships. There will always be some prejudiced people out there who will refuse to change their minds. But more and more people are supporting equality.
DeleteYou say most children are born healthy, but a survey done in Czechoslovakia showed that children born of first degree incest had a 40-50% chance of birth defects. That's a cause for concern. Please explain you opinion on this matter, Thank You.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animals-and-us/201210/the-problem-incest
You'll find varying statistics, but we stand by our statement. There are people you know who are the healthy result of such situations.
Deletehttp://www.larasig.com/node/2020
Oh my God, you're so right. People do tend to ignore or push aside other situation which are actually more likely to cause birth defects. I would say what about drug addicts and chronic alcoholics, no law stops them from breeding despite the known and serious health problems in the fetus if the mother continues to use these drugs.
DeleteIt's sad to know that the law will not allow healthy consanguinamorous couples the right to be together, let alone have kids, and yet will allow activities that will almost certainly harm the unborn. This proves your point! The law is more about stopping relationships that offend others, and is not about the wellbeing of kids.
I started making love to my sister when she was 21 and I was 23. Mostly just on the weekends and then as she moved in so that we could be a more regular couple we spent a lot of money paying for Genetic Testing. We were conisdered "normal" and so once my sister's Depo Provera shot(s) wore off in about 90 days she got pregnant fast. Our first child was born healthy and still is super smart as a teenager herself these days. We have 3 girls and 1 boy. All are healthy. The first two were pretty much back to back as I got here pregnant within two months after our daughter was born. then we she got back on the Depo shots for several years and then again my sister got off those shots and within a month was pregnant and the last child she just had 4 years ago. My sister decided it was time to get her tubes tied
ReplyDeleteCongrats on your love & your family! I’d like to hear more from you. Please write me at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com
DeleteIam with my twin brother,We started 5 months ago.We are now 22 and very happy.I had been with two men before and My brother was a virgin before me.He had only wanted to be with me.He is my twin and naturally there was always this fantasy.Yet,I never dreamed this could become a reality.There was always a shame about it.He always had a strong dislike and jealousy towards both of my boyfriends.This always made me upset because we have always been the best of friends.When I was involved with them my relationship with my brother was distant.When I came to understand that he was jealous and what his feelings for me were.My feelings for him quickly escalated and manifested fast.when it became clear to me he had these thoughts.Though society condemms us I felt why not.We can be very very happy together.No matter how unrealistic people say this is.It was me that made the first move.Very slowly yet fully knowing that he was in love with me.We just turned 22 and nothing would please me more than to become pregnant and spend my life with him.
ReplyDeleteI have been trying to get information about the condition of children born of consanguinamory where it is legal, but have been unsuccessful so far. are there any studies done in countries like France, Spain and Russia.. and are available on the net?
ReplyDeletestill..you dismissed anonymous above on the stats question by pointing to the fact that 'we get different stats'.. but the overwhelming amount of medical and biological, genetic reports I have found are all negative on what they term inbreeding.
Deletethose who advocate for legalizing incest/consanguinamory do not deal as effectivley as they might with this aspect of the issue.
it is my sense that the advocates are are right but there is always doubt due to the imbalance in the results of studies.
what actually happens relative to the offspring of consanguineous parents where consanguinamory is legal sholuld be very instructive and conclusive in the matter
The last time I compared the per-birth birth defect rate for Rhode Island, which has no laws against closely related adults having sex, and that for Texas, which criminalizes even 1st cousins, there was no significant difference.
DeleteI agree with you 100% I have been arguring this online for a few short months after me and my brother became one. Can you link some reserch into this topic? Some people will refuse to listen unless you have numbers.
ReplyDelete