If We Could Talk to the Animals

Jenny Block, who has written about open marriage, wrote that there are some interesting comparisons between humans and other animals when it comes to sexuality. How often have we heard that some relationship isn’t “natural?”

As she says, “Just because animals do certain things doesn’t prove that we necessarily do them too.” But sometimes humans can be compared to other animals, and the comparisons have weight. We might be able to get some good ideas from them.

She points out that animals flirt, they masturbate, they watch other animals express their sexuality, even through video.

They exhibit habits other than monogamy. They are polygamous and polygynous. And they are social monogamists as well as serial monogamists, even swans. Bonobos, for example, have multiple sexual partners at any given time in their life. And some species even engage in group sex. When red-sided garter snakes mate, the female is made the center of what is called a mating ball, where 100 males all attempt to mate with the female at the same time.

People exhibit habits other than monogamy. Although not always socially accepted, people partner in a variety of ways. Many of those ways have proved to be perfectly healthy.

Also,

They are homosexual as well as heterosexual. Marine birds, mammals, monkeys, great apes, dolphins, penguins, cattle, bonobos and rams are just a few of the many animal species in which scientists have observed homosexual behavior.

Humans are homosexual as well as heterosexual, obviously. And each is perfectly normal and absolutely biological. Once again, the only issue in human society is our lack of acceptance of both orientations.

She goes on to note that some animals have sex for pleasure, some will seek out additional sex partners if the current one is not interested in another session at that time, some over-indulge, and there are female initiators. And I’ll add that anyone who has had closely related hamsters can verify that some animals engage in consanguineous sex.

Consenting adults should have their rights to any of these things, without the law interfering.

No Bus Sighting Here

My Tumblr has had hundreds of new followers over the last few days. With the added attention comes more questions. I think someone was trying to trap me. Ha! Boom!

Another Example of Atrociously Vague Reporting

This is a perfect example of why I have a page with notes to journalists. From the great US state of Indiana comes this report at tribtown.com, with a headline reading...

Seymour Man Sentenced to 2 Years in Incest Case

Now, as we've noted many times, "incest" in legal and news talk can mean consensual sex between middle-aged adults who aren't even blood relatives. Or, it could mean some adult brutally abusing a very young child. Those are very different things.

A 43-year-old Jackson County man who recently pleaded guilty to incest received a two-year prison term in Jackson Circuit Court.

Delious Morris of Seymour entered a guilty plea on April 14 to three Class C felony counts of incest.

After accepting that plea, Jackson Circuit Judge Richard Poynter sentenced Morris to five years on each of those counts and suspended three years of each sentence. The sentences are to be served concurrently. Morris also received four days credit and four days credit time.

Here's what I found in Indiana law, the wording of which is set to change at the end of the month (but it doesn't look like the effect will change, just the labels)...

IC 35-46-1-3 Version a
Incest
     Note: This version of section effective until 7-1-2014. See also following version of this section, effective 7-1-2014.
    Sec. 3. (a) A person eighteen (18) years of age or older who engages in sexual intercourse or deviate sexual conduct with another person, when the person knows that the other person is related to the person biologically as a parent, child, grandparent, grandchild, sibling, aunt, uncle, niece, or nephew, commits incest, a Class C felony. However, the offense is a Class B felony if the other person is less than sixteen (16) years of age.

Elsewhere you can find that the age of consent in Indiana is 16, except that that someone has to be 18 to consent to sex with someone who is a guardian of some sort. Since the convictions were to "Class C", we know the supposed victim is at least 16, and could be close in age to the defendant. Since no other charges were listed, such as assault or charges relating to someone being a minor, can we infer that the sex was consensual?

Two years is a absurdly short sentence for sexual assault. If the sex was consensual, prosecution at all was absurd. There are very few circumstances of "incest" where two years in prison is appropriate.

It is possible to have clarification without revealing the identity of the supposed victim, such as who contacted police. Was it the supposed victim? A neighbor? A teacher? And what did the supposed victim say to police?

It makes a difference. Either Morris is a dangerous man who has forced himself on another person, or he's been unjustly prosecuted and imprisoned.

Housekeeping

Thanks to a very kind reader of this blog, this blog is getting a facelift that should make it better. We are not done. Please stick with us. There are still some things to work out.

Asking a Good Question

Discussions like the one below pop up everywhere. This one at collegenet.com was started by claskate who asked, "Is incest always bad?"

Recently a father and daughter were charged with two counts of third degree felony incest, both facing up to 5 years in prison. The father is 52 years old and the daughter is 24 years old. They both knew they were biologically related and it was a consensual relationship. The daughter was adopted as a child and then found her father when she was 21. They got to know each other and a year after they met, they started having sexual relations.

She is referring to this case in Utah.

If the incest is consensual should they still be tried?

No, they shouldn't. They should be free to be together and to marry, if that is what they want.

Would you condone this relationship if they truly loved each other even though they are related?

Of course I would.

Would you still consider it wrong if they didn't know they were blood related?

It isn't wrong even when people do know they are blood related.

shinny437 was first to respond.

New Map of Consanguinamory Legality Around The World

The Final Manifesto continues do do excellent work. Here is the new map pertaining to consanguineous sex and relationships.

When Polyamorists Become Parents

Red Peril writes on parenting and polyamory at More Than Nuclear. In this entry, Red addresses "But what about the children?" She mentions being subjected to insults because of her sexual and relationship orientation.

The assumption is that although it may be one thing to be non-monogamous without children, if you decide to start a family, it's really time to put all that aside and just be normal, for the sake of the children.

With that in mind, my theory about the spectrum of acceptance of alternative lifestyles runs broadly along these lines:

1. Your way of life is immoral and you disgust me (no acceptance).
2. What consenting adults do behind closed doors is okay, but don't rub my nose in it in public.
3. I have no problem with you or your way of life, but I think that all children need one mother and one father, so you shouldn't ever have children.
4. How you live, who you are or what you have chosen may or may not be for me, but it shouldn't prevent you from the same range of possible participation in society that everyone else has (full acceptance).

That's a good way of putting in as basic terms as possible.

Elizabeth Sheff has conducted some of the most extensive research into polyamorous parenting so far, and one of her interesting findings is that far from being confused or by their non-traditional families, children aged 5-8 with three or more parents barely seem to even notice. Children are pretty self-centred, and so how the adults in their life relate to each other isn't particularly important to them. "A 6-year-old may not think of someone as mommy's girlfriend, but think of that person as 'the one who brings Legos' or 'the one who takes me out to ice cream," Sheff explains. To think about it another way, if you had close relationships as a child with non-parental members of your biological family, how much thought did you give to the fact that your uncle was your mother's brother, or your grandmother was your father's mother? I'm willing to bet that that was far less important and interesting than the time the two of you spent together, and the bond that was personal to you.

Read the rest here.

How can it be bad for a child to see adults behaving is a loving, friendly, and cooperative way with each other? How can it be bad for a child to have more adults being a positive influence on their lives? As with monogamous parents, this is all subject to the adults being kind and loving people, rather than abusers or otherwise toxic. In some cultures, including some Western ones, it has long been standard (or used to be) for children to grow up with more than three adults in the home, especially grandparents, aunts, and uncles.

Imagine if people were more honest and rather than claiming children are going to have a problem with their parents' relationships, they simply admitted, "I don't get it" or "I'm uncomfortable with the thought of this?"

Update on Nebraska Prosecution

There's an update on this story we've been following that apparently involves Genetic Sexual Attraction. Anndrea Anderson is reporting at kotanow.com that the male defendant has entered a plea of not guilt.

18-year-old Yonathan Lara-Robles went in front of Judge Leo Dobrovonly Friday afternoon to be arraigned in District Court.

Interesting. In previous reports he was said to be 19. Honorable Judge Leo Dobrovonly, please throw this case out. It is embarrassing that any state would continue to prosecute people for consensual sex.

County Attorney Doug Warner says the girl will be charged in juvenile court.

So then who is the victim, if she is being charged, too? Still no word in the news on any prosecution for the ATTEMPTED MURDER of the girl by her own mother. Why isn't her name and picture all over the news? How absurd.