Monday, January 3, 2011

Changes Proposed to Laws in Ireland

Ireland may lower the age of consent, but bring the sentencing against women who commit “incest” up to the level that applies to men. I wish “incest” would be defined in the article, even if not in the law. As I have consitently maintained, there is a big difference between child abuse and sex between consenting adults.

THE GOVERNMENT will publish new proposals to lower the age of consent to 16 years, down from the current age of 17, early in the new year.

I neither support nor oppose this. Generally, I support the age of consent being no higher than 18. I do not think lowering the age of consent under 16 is a good idea. I also don’t think teenagers who are close in age to one another should be prosecuted for consensual sex.

It also proposes raising the maximum sentence for women who commit incest to life, up from the current seven-year maximum sentence, which was recently imposed on a mother of six.

The sentencing standards for convictions of child molestation or child rape or statutory rape should be the same regardless of genders. Consensual sex between adults should not be a crime.

The Incest News blog also picked up this story.
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8 comments:

  1. AnonymousJanuary 6, 2011 at 1:20 PM

    So your position is that sex between two 13-year-olds should be illegal but not prosecuted? If it's illegal then somewhere, somehow, it WILL be prosecuted. Is that what you want?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Full Marriage EqualityJanuary 6, 2011 at 1:53 PM

    I do not think it should be legal for, say, an 18-year-old to have sex with a 13-year-old. If 13-year-olds are having sex with each other, I do not think that should be a criminal matter, but child protection agencies should be authorized to offer counseling.

    ReplyDelete
  3. AnonymousJanuary 6, 2011 at 2:39 PM

    If you argue that it should not be a criminal matter, then you argue that the age of consent should be, at most, 13.

    Example: in Florida, the age of consent is 16 (http://www.law.fsu.edu/library/flsupct/83712/op-83712.pdf), but Florida Statute 794.05 limits persons 16 and 17 years of age to sex partners of age 23 or less.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Full Marriage EqualityJanuary 6, 2011 at 3:13 PM

    Where is the problem? I believe there should be an age of consent. That means that someone under a certain age (such as 18 or 16) is not legally able to consent to sex WITH AN ADULT OR SOMEONE WHO IS SIGNIFICANTLYLY OLDER. That is why neither 13-year-old should be prosecuted in a case involving two 13-year-olds, unless it was forcible or a drugging or something like that (= rape). 18-year-olds should be able to consent to sex with anyone 18 or older. If a state allows 17 and 16-year-olds to consent to sex only up to a certain age roof, such as 21 or 25 (meaning a 30-year-old would be prevented from sex with the 16-year-old, I have no objection.

    ReplyDelete
  5. AnonymousJanuary 10, 2011 at 12:38 PM

    No, what it means is that anyone under that age - the age of consent - CANNOT LEGALLY CONSENT TO SEX AT ALL. Anyone who is below the age of consent cannot legally consent to sex, period, even with a person of exactly the same age.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Full Marriage EqualityJanuary 10, 2011 at 1:00 PM

    I don't know about Ireland, but in the US, when an unrelated 15-year-old and a 16-year-old have sex in a state where the age of consent is 18, there is almost never prosecution. The police will get involved if there is rape, coercion, drugging, or something like that.

    ReplyDelete
  7. AnonymousJanuary 15, 2011 at 10:55 AM

    That is simply untrue. The police often get involved when parent find out and call police. And in the US there are mandatory reporting laws which force teachers, counselors, doctors, nurses, etc. to report any known or suspected case of teen sex, which immediately results in a full-force police investigation. And ANY police investigation will create a computerized criminal record, regardless of whether or not an arrest is made or whether or not an arrest is followed by prosecution. Furthermore, many US employers (CIA, FBI, police departments, etc.) require all job applicants to grant the employer the right to examine juvenile crime records of any type whatsoever. Therefore, even when not arrested, there can be serious career impacts far into the future.

    Now let's look at some actual prosecutions!!!

    1) Two 15-year-olds Have Consensual Sex, The Older Of The Two Is Charged With Statutory Rape - Selective Prosecution, Gender Discrimination - Massachusetts Supreme Court Weighs In

    http://www.patriotledger.com/news/cops_and_courts/x2071995274/State-supreme-court-says-Norfolk-juvenile-judge-didn-t-abuse-power-in-statutory-rape-case

    2) 17-year-old Honor Student With No Criminal Record Gets Consensual Oral Sex From 15-year-old At Party - Georgia Supreme Court Upholds His Sentence Of Ten (10) Years In Prison

    http://www.gasupreme.us/pdf/s06c1689.pdf

    3) 17-year-old to stand trial for consensual sex with his 13-year-old girlfriend

    http://www.joplinglobe.com/crime_and_courts/x1894469121/Teen-to-stand-trial-in-statutory-rape-case

    4) 17-year-old Charged with Six Felonies for Consensual Sex with 14-year-old Girlfriend

    http://news.opb.org/article/660-oregonians-perceptions-statutory-rape-may-be-changing/

    5) 14-year-old Male Prosecuted For Statutory Rape - 3 Female Consensual Sex Partners Not Charged - Selective Prosecution, Gender Discrimination

    http://www.bostoncriminalattorneyblog.com/2009/02/massachusetts_supreme_court_se_1.html

    6) 17-year-old Male Jailed For Consensual Sex With 14-year-old Girlfriend; 17-Year-Old Female Arrested For Consensual Sex With 14-year-old Boyfriend - But No Jail For Her!

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-03-19/the-teen-rape-double-standard/

    7) Husband Prosecuted for Statutory Rape For Legally Marrying His 14-Year-Old Wife, Sentenced To 18 to 30 Months in Prison

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/national/30baby.html?_r=1&ei=5090&en=c8e2e1cbf11364b0&ex=1283054400&pagewanted=all

    http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB0D15FF3F5A0C7B8CDDAB0894DE404482&fta=y&incamp=archive:article_related

    8) Woman Legally Marries 15-year-old Male, Is Immediately Arrested & Prosecuted For Statutory Rape, Serves Two Years In Prison

    http://www.accessnorthgeorgia.com/detail.php?n=207210

    I'm pretty sure that none of these folks will appreciate your false claims that cases of consensual sex will not be prosecuted, and that all of them would happily invite you to join them in court and/or prison to get a good close look at the truth: "If it's illegal then somewhere, somehow, it WILL be prosecuted."

    ReplyDelete
  8. Full Marriage EqualityJanuary 15, 2011 at 4:10 PM

    I stand by what I wrote: "I don't know about Ireland, but in the US, when an unrelated 15-year-old and a 16-year-old have sex in a state where the age of consent is 18, there is almost never prosecution."

    I never said that a 17-year-old is never prosecuted for sex with a 14-year-old. I would support legislation to make sure sex between 15-year-olds or between a 15-year-old and 16-year-old wouldn't be criminal without coercion or drugging. But I will not support legislation to make it possible for 35-year-olds to have sex with 13-year-olds. If they can legally marry, then that is another issue and that needs to be dealt with.

    The focus of this blog is consenting adults.

    ReplyDelete

To prevent spam, comments will have to be approved, so your comment may not appear for several hours. Feedback is welcome, including disagreement. I only delete/reject/mark as spam: spam, vulgar or hateful attacks, repeated spouting of bigotry from the same person that does not add to the discussion, and the like. I will not reject comments based on disagreement, but if you don't think consenting adults should be free to love each other, then I do not consent to have you repeatedly spout hate on my blog without adding anything to the discourse.

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