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Saturday, February 25, 2017

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #13


“This will cause inheritance disputes.” This can’t be a reason for the continued denial of the polyamorous or polygamous freedom to marry. Again, if we're talking about children, not all polyamorous marriages will have children. But even with today’s restriction of monogamy-only for marriage, we see inheritance disputes all of the time. Widows and widowers who were married only once get in fights with their own children, who may fight with each other. Then, in some cases, there are children born outside of that marriage. There’s divorce and remarriage with or without stepchildren or making more children, there are people who were never married who have kids, there are childless people whose inheritances are disputed, "monogamous" and polyamorous people who had children with multiple people without having been married to any those partners, on and on it goes. If anything, legalizing polygamy would make it easier to sort out inheritance. There can be default rules in the law, and people can come up with their own documented, legal agreements.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #12 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #14
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Friday, February 24, 2017

True Religious Freedom Supports Full Marriage Equality

Jay Bookman at jaybookman.blog.ajc.com points out, given the controversy over recent "religious freedom" laws being passed in US states, that true religious freedom supports full marriage equality.


sister-wives-lawsuit-1
Under the First Amendment, government can’t pass laws that are intended to restrict religious liberty. Such laws are not at stake in this discussion. However, state and local laws that accidentally impinge on religious liberty — zoning laws, health and safety laws, etc., criminal statutes, laws against polygamy — have been allowed as long as those laws at least have a rational basis.

Under SB 129, however, a mere “rational basis” would no longer be sufficient. Laws that impinge accidentally on religious liberty would be allowed ONLY when those laws advance a “compelling governmental interest.
Bookman points out the history of denying the polygamous freedom to marry.
Peter Nash Swisher, a national expert in family law and a professor at the University of Richmond Law School, has looked at the issue and is very dubious about whether such a compelling interest can be found. With recent Supreme Court decisions combined with state and federal RFRAs, ” … proponents of polygamous marriage now have, in my opinion, a very strong case for validating polygamous marriages on cultural, religious, and constitutional grounds.

As Swisher notes, the Old Testament is full of instances of polygamy, and the Muslim faith allows a man to have as many as four wives. Martin Luther, the founder of Protestantism, “observed that polygamy does not contradict Scripture, and so cannot be prohibited by Christianity.”

There are ordained ministers ready and eager to perform same-gender weddings, polyamorous weddings, polygamous weddings, and consanguinamorous weddings. If a state truly wants to support religious freedom, it will support full marriage equality.



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Thursday, February 23, 2017

We Get Letters From a Finally Happy Sister

Anonymous shared with us her fascinating life, which demonstrates yet again why we need relationship rights, including full marriage equality, for all. She wrote in response to our very popular entry on why consanguinamory has been illegal in some places.
First of all, I would just like to say thank you for writing this article. Being in a consanguineous relationship myself, I finally decided to look this up. This has been very encouraging to me and I even cried while reading it. I would like to share my story to possibly help others facing the same difficulties as myself.
You're quite welcome, Anonymous, and we're glad it is helpful. You an also contact us as fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com.
Ever since childhood I have been in a close relationship with my sister. We share all the same interests and do everything together. We’ve never enjoyed being with someone else as much as we’ve enjoyed each other’s company. We literally spend all our time together and hardly ever disagree about anything. Others have noticed how well we get along and even have stated how they wished their children could get along that well.

As we grew, we became drawn to each other, not out of sexual attraction, or even for experimentation. The amount of love we had for each other was impossible to ignore, like a very strong magnet. By the time we were young teens we were already kissing.

This is where I would like to clarify that we are both female. However, we are NOT lesbians. We are not attracted to women, and never will be. We are both attracted to men. Growing up we even shared the same crushes on guys. Whenever we interacted with each other in a intimate way, we treated it like we were just having fun.
If I had to label this, I would call this being heteroflexible, but it is up to people to explain themselves if and how they want.
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Wednesday, February 22, 2017

Polyamory is Not Synonymous With Promiscuity

Polyamorists are diverse. About the only thing all polyamorous people have in common is that they are 1) people and 2) polyamorous. There are polyamorous people everywhere, and there always have been. Some tend to conform to the larger culture around them and seem as "average" as can be, some are countercultural. Polyamorists vary in sexual orientations, philosophies, faith traditions, political affiliations, lifestyles, and just about every way humans can be diverse.

They are also diverse in how they live out polyamory, which is why "polyamory" is definitely not synonymous with "promiscuity" if promiscuity is defined as "the practice of having casual sex frequently with different partners or being indiscriminate in the choice of sexual partners."

Some polyamorists never engage in casual sex and are very particular about their choice of sexual partners, and some will have fewer sexual partners over the course of their life than many people who identify as monogamous. Yes, there are some polyamorists who are promiscuous, but promiscuous polyamorists aren't the only people who are promiscuous.

None of this is to intended to be negative towards casual sex or promiscuity. just to clarify that polyamory and promiscuity are not the same thing. Someone can have two lifelong partners they didn't have sex with until well into their relationship and be polyamorous. And just because someone enjoys some casual sex with a few different people doesn't mean, necessarily, that they are polyamorous.

One of the beautiful things about letting consenting adults negotiate their own encounters and relationships without laws or other forms of discrimination interfering is that you can have things the way you feel is best and your neighbor can have completely different relationships, and you and your lovers can all have what you need. This is yet another reason to support full marriage equality and relationship rights for all.
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Tuesday, February 21, 2017

Clearing Up Consanguinity

Many people get confused about terms like "second cousins" and "once removed" when referring to close but not-so-close relations. Your parent's sibling's child is your first cousin. That person's child would be your first cousin, once removed. That person's child and your child would be second cousins.

Here's a helpful chart that can help explain it.



Source: http://www.sanantonio.gov/atty/ethics/ConsanguinityChart.htm

Remember, there's nothing wrong with experimenting with, dating, or even marrying a cousin. Consanguineous relationships and marriages are nothing new. There are some countries and a little over half of US states where the bigotry against marriage equality extends to preventing first cousins from marrying, but there are many places where marrying a first cousin is legal and common. I'm only aware of a few US states where sex between first cousins is technically illegal, so check the laws of your state if you are concerned. It should be searchable on your official state website.


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Monday, February 20, 2017

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #12


“What about child custody and child support?” This is an especially flimsy objection to polyamorous (or polygamous) relationships. As we have noted before, adult relationships don't always involve raising children. Even so, nonmonogamous relationships between adults who are parents have always existed, and in most places, it isn't criminal to be nonmonogamous. So this issue is already being handled. Notice we could ask the same question about children from one night stands, donated sperm, surrogate mothers, affairs, brief flings, or supposedly monogamous relationships and marriages that end. What about children born to a woman whose husband wasn’t the man who impregnated her? All of these situations are entirely legal. A mediator, arbitrator, or court decides custody and child support disputes that aren’t resolved amicably. That would still be the case if polyamorous relationships had legal protections, including marriage.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #11 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #13
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Sunday, February 19, 2017

New to This Blog or Looking to Find Out More?

We support the rights of an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any other union offered by law), and any of those things without the others, with any and all consenting adults, without fear of prosecution, bullying, or discrimination. These are basic human rights and it shouldn't matter who is disgusted by the relationships of other adults or who doesn't understand why the adults would want to be together.

If you're viewing the desktop/laptop version, you'll see that over there in the column on the right you can find ways to connect and to follow this blog, and at the top of the page are tabs with drop-downs of some important pages, entries, and links. If you're viewing a mobile version, many of the links are below.

You are welcomed and affirmed here regardless of your gender, sexuality, or relationship diversities, and whether you are looking for more information, are in the closet or out about your gender, sexual orientation, or relationship, or want to be an ally. Are you here because of polyamory or polygamy? Perhaps you're here because this blog covers Genetic Sexual Attraction or consanguinamory (consensual incest) or because you think or know your partner has been involved? Do you need help? Whether you're a family member or friend who is looking for more information, or a journalist, or are someone who is looking to help the cause, we hope you are helped by what is here.

There's an About This Blog page, and you can read about the triad who originally inspired this blog.

There's a Glossary so that you can become familiar with terms frequently used here.

We explain why we need solidarity in supporting full marriage equality and we debunk all the arguments that you'll ever hear made against equality, so if you're against equal rights, please carefully read through that page.

On the Case Studies page we feature interviews with people who have been denied their rights, so you can "meet" people who are, or have been, in consensual loving relationships who have are harmed by the lack of equality under the law.

This blog is a labor of love. There's no advertising and we don't accept monetary contributions. Want to help? Spread the word. If you are a lawyer, attorney, or someone who works with a legal group or law firm, we'd like to hear from you if you are supportive. Also, this blog DOES accept content submissions (Keith can be contacted at... fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com), but makes no offer, implicit nor explicit, of compensation nor guarantees that it will be used. If you want to tell your story, that would be very helpful to others!

Tell us what you think by commenting or by contacting us.

Join our Facebook group "I Support Full Marriage Equality."

Keith wants to be friends with all who support full marriage equality and relationship rights for all adults. Be Facebook friends with Keith.

Follow the Twitter account for this blog.

Follow the Tumblr blog for Full Marriage Equality

The Final Manifesto is another excellent blog.

If you don't want to connect, still feel free to send Keith a note at fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com

Myths about Genetic Sexual Attraction
Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory
Bad Reasons to Deny Love
Ten Reasons Why Consensual Incest is Wrong (Sarcastic) 



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Friday, February 17, 2017

Are We Looking For You?

We may be looking for you. If you are someone who is described below, please contact us a fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com or http://www.facebook.com/fullmarriageequality

1) We are looking for attorneys who are willing to represent consenting adults facing discrimination in criminal and civil law for having relationships.

2) We are looking for counselors and therapists in general, and one in particular, who are willing to help adults who face prejudice, discrimination, and even hostility from family due to consensual relationships with other adults.

3) We are looking for people willing to tell their stories about the love and relationships.

4) We are looking for anyone else willing to advance the cause of civil rights relating to gender, sexuality, and relationship diversities, and included in that, we'd like to hear from graphic artists who are interested in making contributions. Also, have you joined or started a GSA or diversity club at your school?

5) We are looking for you if you've been in videos found online in which you are depicted as having consanguineous sex.
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Thursday, February 16, 2017

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #11


“It will be a legal/paperwork nightmare as our system is set up for couples.” That’s what the bigots said about same-gender marriage and the Americans With Disabilities Act and just about any civil rights laws. Of course it is easier for those who already have what they want to keep things as they are. But what about all of the people who are denied their rights?

Adopting the polygamous freedom to marry under full marriage equality will take much less adjustment than adopting the Americans With Disabilities Act, the Violence Against Women Act and many other laws necessary to for equal protection and civil rights. Contract and business law already provides adaptable examples of how law can accommodate configurations involving three or more people, including when someone joins an existing relationship or leaves a relationship.


There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #10 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #12
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Wednesday, February 15, 2017

Discovering Consanguinamory in the Family Tree

I am [or, had been] active on [a certain Big Online Portal's question and answer service], especially when it comes to explaining the importance of relationship rights, full marriage equality, and decriminalizing consanguinamory. Someone had this question...

Family Tree Concerns..?
My Grandfather recently passed away and my Grandmother told us all that her and my Grandfather were never married, they had always celebrated an anniversary (or so we thought,) but didn't understand while she waited till he died before telling us. After further research into my family tree I have discovered that my Grandmother married her Uncle (is this incest!?!), my Mother feels all weird because it feels like her life has been a lie and the only person she could have asked and got a proper answer was her Dad but now he's gone so we are both just looking for some advice or if anyone has been or is going through a similar situation...
This was my answer, which was chosen as the best answer (thankyouverymuch)...
= = = =
Here's what matters: Was your grandfather a good person? A good spouse to your Grandmother? A good parent? A good grandparent? THAT is what matters, not any genetic or legal relation to your grandmother. There's no lie about any of that. Your mother's life is no different now than it was before she knew that information. She's just allowing cultural prejudices to influence her reaction. Your grandparents had what is called a common-law marriage. As long as they were good to each other, that is what matters.

You didn't make it clear, but it appears you mean your grandfather was the brother of one of your grandmother's parents (he would still be an "uncle" to her if he had, at one time, been married to one of your grandmother's parents' sisters without any biological relation to your grandmother). Assuming there was a genetic connection (though it is possible he had been adopted into the family, too), that is still no reason for alarm. This is much more common than people think. People are finding out about this through DNA testing and family records, although family records don't always reveal the truth. If you go back further, it is virtually guaranteed you'll find you have consanguineous ancestors.

You don't have to go too far back in anyone's family tree to find these kinds of things. I doubt there is a person out there whose ancestry has nothing like this.

In other words.... you and your family are as normal as everyone else.
= = =

Just about everyone has incestuous childbearing in their family tree. In some cases, someone was raped, which of course is a horrible, or there was cheating. In other cases, it was true love between people who were not cheating on anyone. If the law prevented them from legally marrying or from telling the truth, that is a problem, a terrible problem, of the law, and just one of many reasons we need full marriage equality. It is not something wrong with the lovers.
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Tuesday, February 14, 2017

Valentine's Day

Valentine's Day is here again. Many people will be getting married. Married people will be celebrating their anniversaries, or simply having a night out, as will other people hoping to get married someday, or maybe just enjoying being together in public.

If you are in such a situation, good for you and enjoy it.

Whether you are or not, take a moment to think about all of the people who can’t marry the person or person(s) they love, or can’t so much as hold hands in public without being accosted. Think about the people, consenting adults, who have to completely hide their relationships because they could be sent to prison for simply having sex in private. Think about the people who have to hide who they are because, where they live, they could be killed for being who they are. Think about the people who can’t accept gifts from their their lover(s) at work, or even a loving comment on their Facebook wall, because it would out them and get them fired.

This is what goes on because some people are being denied their rights to share sex, love, residence, and marriage. The US now has the limited monogamous same-gender freedom to marry nationwide, which was a great step forward. Other victories for that freedom to marry since February 14, 2016 have included...

Columbia ...April 28, 2016
Tulalip Tribes of Washington ...May 6, 2016
Jalisco, Mexico ...May 12, 2016
Campeche, Mexico ...May 20, 2016
Colina, Mexico ...June 12, 2016
Michoacán, Mexico ...June 23, 2016
Morelos, Mexico ...July 5, 2016
Isle of Man ... July 22, 2016
San Pedro Cholula, Puebla, Mexico ...September 18, 2016
British Antarctic Territory ...October13, 2016
Menominee Indiana Tribe of Wisconsin ...November 3, 2016
Cherokee Nation ...December 9, 2016
Gibraltar ...December 15, 2016
Ascension Island ...January 1, 2017
Finland ...March 1, 2017


In most of the world, a man can’t marry both of the women he loves, despite both women being in favor of such a marriage.

The people in most of these interviews can't have legally recognized marriages anywhere in the world, with perhaps one or two exceptions, and we need full marriage equality before people like Linda, Melissa, and Matthew can tie the knot.

So enjoy Valentine's Day if you are able, but think for a moment about the people who will only be able to fully enjoy theirs when we have full marriage equality so that an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, is free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, persecution, or discrimination. Help make it happen sooner rather than later.


Do you have special plans? Or, if you're reading this after Valentine's Day, do you have anything special to report? If so, comment below. Remember, you can comment anonymously.
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Monday, February 13, 2017

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #10


“Polyamory/polygamy spreads sexually transmitted infections.” Unprotected sex with someone who is infected is how such infections may be transmitted. Twenty people could have group sex and a group marriage for fifty years and if none of them brings an infection into the marriage and they only have sex with each other, none of them will get a sexually transmitted infection.

We do not deny people their freedom to marry based on which diseases they have. In most places, people can legally have sex with multiple partners anyway. Polyfidelity can be encouraged if polygamy is legalized and polyamory is no longer stigmatized, which would actually reduce disease transmission. Polyamorous people tend to be more careful about prevention, safer sex, and actually talking about the issues involved.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #9 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #11
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Sunday, February 12, 2017

Why? Many of the Same Reasons Anyone Else Does It

Vicky Wireko wrote at myjoyonline.com under "Reality Zone: Why would a father sleep with his biological daughter?"

Without yet getting to the text of the piece, the terms need to be defined. By "sleep," she no doubt means intercourse. But is she referring to rape or is she referring to consensual sex?  Rape and lovemaking are two different things. Rape should always be illegal. Lovemaking should never be illegal. But "biological daughter" can mean a woman the father didn't meet or didn't have a relationship with until she was an adult, or at least hasn't had a relationship with since an early age. Consanguinamory initiated through Genetic Sexual Attraction has a different dynamic than consanguinamory growing from an existing sociological relationship.

Why would a father make love with his biological daughter? I'm talking about CONSENT ADULTS here.

For many of the the same reasons a man would have sex with any woman:

He's a heterosexual male and she's a receptive or initiating female he finds attractive.

They love each other.

It feels good and is fun. This is especially true when it comes to consanguinamory.

To bond.

To express love.

To have children.

Some of them have been brought together through Genetic Sexual Attraction, some of them haven't.

There are many reasons, but they shouldn't need to justify it to anyone else. Why is ultimately theirs to share, not anyone else's business. Perhaps a better question is why wouldn't/shouldn't he? Sex is not a bad thing. Those who think it is are probably doing it wrong.

What did Wireko have to say? Let's see...

Everything is certainly wrong with a father sleeping with his blood daughter.
 Does she give a reason?
It is repugnant apart from the fact that it is a taboo in our custom.
Ah, Discredited Arguments #1 and 2.

However, when a father’s love for his daughter straddles beyond parental love veering off to lust, to the extent of sexual abuse, it becomes horrendous.
Abuse and lovemaking are two different things. She goes on to write about abuse, without giving a good reason as to why consenting adults shouldn't be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage. Don't like it? Don't do it. But there ARE adult women in loving spousal-type relationships with their biological fathers, despite what prejudiced bigots think.

Please also see Intergenerational Relationships Can Work 



why would a woman sleep with her father why would a father and daughter have sex why would a parent have sex with an adult child why would a woman have sex with her father
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Saturday, February 11, 2017

Move France Forward

France doesn't criminalize consanguineous relationships, but it still needs to be more egalitarian in marriage laws. As Jane has already noted on her blog, there is a petition we urge you to sign that calls for this.
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Friday, February 10, 2017

NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #9

“They’re abusive.” Interracial, (adult) intergenerational, same-gender, polyamorous, and consanguinamorous relationships are not inherently abusive. It is the abusive relationships in general that are more likely to make news, or come to the attention of therapists or law enforcement. There are many people in "forbidden" relationships that are lasting, happy, healthy relationships.

Abusive people are the cause of abuse, not a relationship or marriage. There are many same-age, same-race, heterosexual, monogamous, nonconsanguineous relationships and marriages in which someone is abused. We have several examples showing that outlawing consensual behavior correlates to an increase in problems as people try to avoid law enforcement and other authorities. Marriage equality will most certainly reduce abuse, as abuse victims can go to the authorities with much less fear. So the solution isn’t the status quo, it is in bringing the relationships out of the shadows, allowing them to be protected and made official, and prosecuting abusers. Abuse victims will be much more forthcoming.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #8 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #10
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Wednesday, February 8, 2017

Parole Granted For Nevada Man Sentenced to Prison For Life

We last updated this case three years  ago in this posting. If you follow the links, you'll see that although the reporting is vague, from what little we were told, it appears  that this was likely a case of consensual (to be redundant) sex as the age of consent in Nevada is 16, and based on the charges that were and were not filed. The parole would  seem to back that up. If this had been an assault, then such a relatively (no pun intended) quick parole would be outrageous.

From ktvn.com...

A former Elko police captain who was convicted of incest and sentenced to prison for up to life in prison has been granted parole after serving four years.
Four years is certainly a lot less than life.
He was sentenced to life in prison in 2013 with the possibility of parole after serving two years. The board turned him down in 2015.
And from Toni R. Milano at elkodaily.com...
Former Elko Police captain Aaron Hughes was granted parole 48 months after being convicted of incest and sentenced to life in prison.
According to the Nevada Board of Parole Commissioners, Hughes was granted parole Jan. 11. His earliest date of release from Lovelock Correctional Center is April 1.
That day might be appropriate.
“The Elko Police Department opposed an early release date and put comments in writing for various reasons,” said Police Chief Ben Reed on Monday.
“We have no outstanding issues,” he added.
Maybe those issues are that the people in the department felt embarrassed?

As a reminder, Nevada is one a handful of states that criminalizes sex between first cousins as "incest" and since reports don't indicate the relation, for all we know this was sex between first cousins. The female who was 17 then has to be around the age of 26 now an should be capable of speaking up to either support this or denounce it.



OKAY.... I was going to go ahead and publish this but, before I did, I did some of my own basic searching, and it turns out that this was with his daughter, who apparently wrote "romantic" messages to him (which became evidence and prompted the investigation in the first place). At the sentencing, she expressed how much turmoil had been brought into her life, but it seemed like that could have been referring to the criminal prosecution rather than the sex. I wonder what her thoughts about everything are now? This could very well be a situation involving Genetic Sexual Attraction, meaning he didn't raise her. We aren't told one way or the other if he did. Romantic letters don't really strike me as something that would be involved if he raised her and had custody, because they would have been used to face-to-face talking. One of the questions I have now is who is the person who claimed to find the romantic letter in Hughes' home and turned it over to police?  We know from an earlier report that someone by the name of Kimberly Harphant, an "acquaintance" of Hughes turned in evidence. Who is she? And what were her concerns? The 17-year-old's mother? A girlfriend or wife to Hughes unrelated to the 17-year-old? A daughter or stepdaughter of Hughes?
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Tuesday, February 7, 2017

These Are Not Arguments

This has been added to our Discredited Arguments page, which you'll find to be very helpful in answering the usual arguments that are really flimsy attempts to justify prejudice.

NOT EVEN ARGUMENTS: 1) Labeling or describing something, even accurately, is NOT an argument. For example, saying "That's homosexuality!" does not make a claim as to why it shouldn't be allowed or why it should be discriminated against. 2) Stating an opinion, such as that something is "wrong" or "immoral" is not an argument, either. It indicates WHAT someone thinks, but not WHY. 3) Claiming to have made an accurate prediction that someone would want their rights, such as "I said this would happen!" isn't an argument. 4) Appealing to the very law in question, by saying "It's illegal!" isn't an argument (and, it isn't always true, either, depending on location.) The very thing being argued is whether something should be illegal or otherwise discriminated against.


Here's the full page.
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An Extensive Interview With a Polyamorous Man

This blog has featured scores of exclusive interviews with lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are, by law, denied the freedom to marry and have that marriage treated equally under the law.

The man interviewed below is, and was, clearly able to consent to his relationships. Along with his spouse, he should be free to decide whether or not to legally marry another spouse, yet they are denied this right could be harassed and persecuted if they were open about their love for another. They are consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone; why should they be denied their rights? In Utah, they could be criminally prosecuted for their love. In any US state and many countries, they would violate the law if they filed another marriage license with another spouse.

Read the interview below and see for yourself what he has to say. You may think his relationships are shocking, interesting, or you might find them to be ideal, but whatever your reaction, should these lovers be denied equal access to marriage or any other rights?

This is one of the longest interviews this blog has featured, as our subject has much to share. If you're curious about polyamory or plural marriage, you'll find much insight herein.

(PLEASE NOTE that our interview subject has chosen "Cowboy" as a pseudonym. This relates to his profession, and is in no way referencing the "cowboy" term used in polyamory and ethical nonmonogamy communities.)


*****


FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Tell us about yourself.

Cowboy: As you drive to my house you will leave the city and drive down a rural road passed many beautiful homes until you end up at my ranch. Like my name suggests, I am a rancher. And for those of you that don’t know what the life of a rancher is, it’s quite simple. I go to work when its dark and I come home from work when it’s dark. I work no matter what the weather is like. But I prefer the sunny days the most.

I haven’t always been a rancher or always lived in the country. I went to school and got an Electronics Engineering degree and worked for some of the biggest companies in the U.S. making more money then I knew what to do with. I was single at the time and loved it. Well. No. The truth is that I loved the money. The only problem was I never spent any of it because I lived at work. I would eat all my meals, shower and sleep at work. It wasn’t my choice, of course. It was because I was on call all the time. I never had a day off. I was like a robot.

But I realized that I didn't have a life. So I decided to change careers and went into construction. Have you ever been in a Home Depot? How about a Staples? I have built so many different things, from Home Depot to Staples to mansions. But the same thing happened. I would just travel the country building places for everyone else to enjoy.

I realized that I wanted to have a family. But not just have a family. I wanted to be there for my family no matter what. That why I got into ranching. It was because I wanted a family and to be there for them. Besides ranching, I have written about a lot of things including polyamory. I am currently working on two books. One is about polygamy and the other is a book which is part of a program to help children overcome mental health issues like anxiety without medication. I’m constantly pouring over medical information.

I am 5'10" with brown hair and hazel eyes. If I wear green clothes my eyes turn green. If I wear brown clothes they turn brown. I’m Spanish, Cherokee Indian, with some Irish in me, all of which are very important to me. My heritage means the world to me and I want to pass it on.

I try my best to stay grounded and connected to what really matters to me. But if it helps you understand things, I have sacrificed so my children won’t ever have to worry about anything. If you see me around it will be in a pair of nice jeans and shirt.

I have eight brothers and sisters. Well, actually, seven. One of my brothers died a few years back. I have two small baby boys and one on the way. I am also married to a wonderful girl who loves me. For the life of me, I don’t know why. Kidding. I live with my pregnant wife and our boys.

I love nature and the outdoors. If you ever want to find me, start there.
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NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #8


“Polyamorous and consanguineous marriages are not the same thing as same-gender marriage.” So what? We’re talking about consenting adults who want to be together, and there’s no good reason to stop them. Some same-gender relationships and marriages are polygamous and/or consanguineous. A man should not only be able to marry another man, but two or more other men or his brother.

Strictly speaking, whether a marriage is same-gender or heterosexual is a different category than whether it is monogamous or polygamous; or exogamous or interracial, endogamous, or consanguineous. Some heterosexual marriages are monogamous, some are polygamous. Some same-gender marriages are monogamous, some are polygamous. Bisexuals may be in monogamous marriages or polygamous marriages. Some monogamous marriages are consanguineous, some aren’t. That monogamous/polygamous and exogamous/endogamous/consanguineous are different categories from heterosexual/same-gender is not a justification to deny the freedom to marry to consenting adults, or deny them marriage equality. Relationship rights belong to all adults.

It should be noted that when there is a polyamorous relationship, whether a "V" or a triad or more, at least two of the people involved are the same gender, even if they are no more than metamours to each other.

Something does not have to be immutable or inborn, like sexual orientation, to be legal. However, there are people (especially with Genetic Sexual Attraction) who are in consanguineous relationships who would swear to you that they couldn’t love anyone as much as they love their partner(s). They were born into their situations. There are people who are obviously unable to be monogamous, to the point of being willing to suffer loss of job, loss of reputation, loss of wealth, and figurative and literal loss of life, and they should not promise monogamy nor be pressured to pretend to be monogamous.

Some people simply are polyamorous.

That these other categories are not the same thing as same-gender marriage does not explain why there are still laws against them or a lack of relationship protections in the law.


There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #7

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #9 
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Sunday, February 5, 2017

Consanguinamory is Not Sick

As this blog and others have repeatedly shown, there is no good reason to keep laws, discrimination, or stigmas against consanguinamory (consanguineous or consensual incest sex or relationships) that is consistently applied to other relationships. One of the grasping-at-straws assertions that one might make when all of their justifications for denying rights fails is "people who do that are sick" or "those relationships are dysfunctional."

Before we do anything else, let's make it clear that we're talking about consensual sex and relationships, not abuse. It's not fair to point to abuse, assault, child molestation, etc. by a close relative as an example of how "incest" is "sick".

Alleging psychological problems or mental illness is something best left to mental health professionals, such as a psychiatrist (a medical doctor) or a psychologist. The opinion of someone without such credentials and some experience should be suspect. So, if someone makes the claim that we should criminalize or otherwise discriminate against consanguinamory because the behavior is based on mental illness, they should be asked 1) for their credentials; 2) if they have personally conducted an evaluation of the individuals involved and the dynamics of their relationship, and; 3) if all relationships they personally think are based on mental illness should be likewise criminalized or discriminated against. Usually, calling consanguinamory "sick" is just a thinly veiled variation on Discredited Arguments #1 and 3.

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Saturday, February 4, 2017

Let's Network

There is a growing supportive network for people who are in, or have been in, consanguinamorous relationships, and their allies.

Despite how common these experiences and relationships are, people often feel alone, and sometimes they are very reluctant to reach out, or their lover or lovers do not want them to reach out for fear of persecution, prosecution, or some other negative result. However, there are many of us who would like to be in contact with you and will keep your confidence, as we've done for so many others, including these folks. So whether you have been involved, know someone who has, or are an ally who doesn't even know who around you has been involved, please reach out.

If you want to get in contact with me, you can do so by writing me at fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com or contacting me on Facebook or on Twitter or on Tumblr.

We have a Public group on Facebook, I Support Full Marriage Equality, where you can find many friendly people even if you don't join the group, which is about ALL adult relationships.

Jane has a great blog and Tumblr and podcast.

Join Kindred Spirits, a free, supportive forum, for serious discussions of the issues surrounding consanguinamory.

So, bookmark, follow, join, and send messages as appropriate to join us. You're not alone, and you can make a difference!
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Friday, February 3, 2017

NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #7


“What’s next?” “Where do we draw the line?” What's wrong with letting consenting adults have the freedom to love each other as they want and agree? Who has a problem with that? Rather than coming up with convoluted schemes for which groups of people will get which rights, why not support the rights of all adults? It’s really quite simple:

The right to marry or to personal consortium shall not be abridged or denied by the United States or any state on account of sex, gender, sexual orientation, ancestry, consanguinity, or number of participants.

(Adapt that to your country, province, etc.)


There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #6 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #8
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Thursday, February 2, 2017

So Your Friends Are Polyamorous



Q. My husband and I recently discovered that our closest friends (another couple) are having an open relationship. They say they are “polyamorous.”
Did they actually say their relationship is open? Some polyamorous relationships are closed, but people hear the word and they think "open relationship."
I am having a very hard time accepting this.
How does this change the letter writer's life?

They were in our wedding, and we were in theirs. In the last 10 years I can’t remember having a single disagreement with them, but I can’t seem to get past this.
Really? So much history, getting along so well, being so close, and this is just too much?
They didn’t even tell us about it. We found out because the husband was hanging all over another woman very publicly at their annual party. My husband found out what was really going on through another longtime friend.
Could that be what was really upsetting? That this letter writer thought this couple was so close but didn't discuss this with them?
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Wednesday, February 1, 2017

New Zealand Still Prosecuting Consenting Adults

A couple this blog last covered in 2012 were back in the criminal system and back in the courts in New Zealand.

Let's go back to a report at nzherald.co.nz from September 2016...
A father and daughter pleaded guilty to incest when they appeared in the Dunedin District Court this afternoon.
Judge Kevin Phillips convicted them and remanded them on bail, with conditions prohibiting communication between the pair, for sentence in November.
This is outrageous. They have a consensual relationship, initiated through Genetic Sexual Attraction, and there is no reason to deny them communication, contact, or their freedom.
The pair - aged 37 and 23 - have previously been convicted of incest, after the woman gave birth to a child in 2011.
Isn't it obvious that they are in love? Why interfere?
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